Demons: What's Your Take?

[Burnt State]

hi starise,

that's a pretty heavy story.

the biologist in me has to ask whether or not this person sought any type of medical care, specifically MRI's of the brain in case of tumours, aneurysms etc. because that intense headache piece could be also a symptom of something else altogether? when there is pressure in the brain in different areas it has been known to produce entirely violent outbursts by figures, totally out of keeping with that individual's character. a case in point, a former student of mine, a very kind and gentle figure, woke up in the middle of the night complaining of a severe headache and then proceeded to beat up his father and broke his arm, punched his mom and broke her jaw and then went running to the neighbours and proceeded to attack them through the glass screen door. in the process of doing this they severed their artery and bled to death on the front porch of the neighbour at 3am. those sudden moments are very alarming, disturbing, and in this case they did identify an aneurysm as the source of the event in the autopsy. so i would be concerned about this person if they had not explored a medical avenue to source out the cause of the pain and personality alteration.

as for the healing power of touch, i firmly believe that other human beings can easily be some of the best healers on earth just through the sincerity of their good intentions and good touch.

and i also agree that the truth is always in the middle. we collaborate on such things daily with lots of give and take.

 

[Darth Arab]

I'm have some metaphorical demons, fairly sure of that, can't prove though

ps I won't be enlisting any sort of churchy type person to rid me of these lol

 

[starise]

Hi Burnt State,

I would have been surprised if there wasn't at least an attempted explanation. We have a lot of bright people here and your case in point is an area that I did examine although I am no scientist. I tried every possible alternate explanation. That is a rather tragic story you told there and I am sorry to hear about this individual.

I tried to make a medical connection. There seem to be too many other variables here for me to make a comfortable connection in that way that I can live with.

First off I know this person very well and this is how I came to be involved with the event. I know how they have been since the event and they haven't had one single even similar thing happen ...ever if you exclude the behavior that led up to that night.. There were never any prior events that would in any way connect to this event. In and of itself this doesn't mean a medical explanation isn't feasible.

Here is why I am not convinced of that: I enter the room after I am at their house a night before then. The individual is sound asleep but talking lucidly and making sense. The things they said were like someone else was talking. I have recordings but they are private out of respect for the person who does not want their identity disclosed. I made the recordings because the person who was affected didn't believe it was happening. This was more than talking in your sleep IMO. This was like another person was lying there and talking. Not all the time but in short bursts here and there.

On that first night I shook the person to wake them and it took a long time to make them snap out of it. I was shouting and shaking the person to wake them up. Even a deep sleeper would have woke up but it took at least twice the effort to rouse the person.After they awoke they were understandably upset because they had no recollection of the events and I was just there harrassing them.

The following night the same thing happened and apparently this had been going on disguised as dreaming for some time. I snuck in so quietly no one would have heard me enter. The person was in the same kind of trance. I confirmed that they were A: Completely asleep,eyes closed. B: Talking as if there were more than one in the plural and chanting. The chanting went to a whisper immediately after I entered the room at which point "they" indicated that they needed to be quiet now. They became increasingly agitated when they realized I was calling on help and attempting to get them to leave. The longer this went on the more agitated they became. It was apparent that it/they were experiencing a lot of discomfort.

Just much more going on than a medical condition would indicate. There was clear controlled intelligence in the entities and in their attempted manipulation of this victim. I wasn't going to leave until the outcome was favorable and I think it knew we were onto it. I have to ask how many other people this has happened to or happens to.

When we think of demonic possession I think most of us picture a person who is easy to spot as a victim. From my experiences the possession is stealthy. The demon can be there but lay low and choose when to come out. In some literature dealing with possession the person can seem very quiet and reserved. No heads spinning at 180, no vomiting green puke. The bed didn't rise from the floor. Forget Hollywood. I think we have documented evidence of strange things similar to that happening, but it isn't always like that.

 

[Nathaniel]

'Demons' are symbols of resistance. But if you do not feed them with the energy, demons can not be a part of your reality.

'Demons' began as a metaphor. In other words, they began as a symbol of negative frequencies in our own human psyches. But those symbols have been fed by individuals and cultures and religions with enough focus that they have become thought forms which can project ideas, retain characteristics, and be perceived as well as influence those people in the third dimension who hold a vibration which is a close enough match to theirs.

'Demons' have no power of assertion. They are invited by offering a "like vibration". The way to offer a "like vibration" to things like 'demons' is to think thoughts which vibrate at the same emotional level such as victim-hood, powerlessness and depression.

There is not a source of evil. There is ONE source of energy in this universe and it can either be allowed or resisted by us. 'Demons' are symbols of resistance. But if you do not feed them with the energy of your focus and you raise your vibration by choosing higher vibrational thoughts and actions, 'demons' can not be a part of your reality.

 

[starise]

"Demons' are symbols of resistance." Not true. No more than I am a symbol of a man.

"Demons' began as a metaphor." Not true. Demons began when they began and they are beings.

"Demons' have no power of assertion." Not true. Within certain confines they have plenty of assertion.

" There is not a source of evil". If you really believe this then I feel sorry for you. You take denial to another level.

"There is ONE source of energy in this universe". We also disagree here. There are many sources of energy. Depending on the context you are approaching this in, these sources of energy have personalities and personages. If you are referring to God why not simply say so?

I am aware of the idea of "vibrations"- Are you in the GHZ range? Mostly what I hear from you are inuendos and references with no concrete foundation.

I do agree with the idea of not feeding "them". There's a good reason for the " Don't Feed The Tigers" sign at the local zoo. But demons a symbols....nah.

 

[Grifynne]

Starise - I just wanted to mention that if I sound like someone who is completely discounting religion/demons, I don't mean to come across that way. I really think the concept has become a crutch, and is heavily used for entertainment purposes as well (even in so-called "paranormal reality" TV). And I think that some people place filters on their experienced based on what they know and what they want it to be, and that's not always the case. So while I believe that there definitely are evil things out there, I'm just not so quick to jump on that idea right away. I think I mostly agree when you said:

I never bought into the idea that there is a demon for everything. A person needs to stretch the available information to make that seem feasible. It seems silly to me that some churches attribute so much to demons. In doing this they almost trivialize a much more serious subject. Then there are churches that almost seem too deny demons exist. Like they are something that existed long ago. The truth is in the middle. Don't give the devil too much attention...he doesn't deserve it. But don't underestimate him either. That is basically my stance.

I think you really hit it when you said "the truth is in the middle." Maybe it's human nature, but many people like something neat and tidy that you can place in one category or the other. But how many people actually live their lives in black or white? Most people exist in a grey area, yet we don't expect strange things to happen that way. I think there may be something to balance in the world. And I also think that just as there are evil people there could be evil energy, evil spirit, evil entities we don't understand, etc.

Thanks for sharing more details about your story. I can understand your reluctance to do that. You know how they say "sex sells"? Well, I wonder if demons are the "sex" of the paranormal entertainment industry. Which I'm sure doesn't help when it comes to taking these issues seriously.

the biologist in me has to ask whether or not this person sought any type of medical care, specifically MRI's of the brain in case of tumours, aneurysms etc. because that intense headache piece could be also a symptom of something else altogether? when there is pressure in the brain in different areas it has been known to produce entirely violent outbursts by figures, totally out of keeping with that individual's character. a case in point, a former student of mine, a very kind and gentle figure, woke up in the middle of the night complaining of a severe headache and then proceeded to beat up his father and broke his arm, punched his mom and broke her jaw and then went running to the neighbours and proceeded to attack them through the glass screen door. in the process of doing this they severed their artery and bled to death on the front porch of the neighbour at 3am. those sudden moments are very alarming, disturbing, and in this case they did identify an aneurysm as the source of the event in the autopsy. so i would be concerned about this person if they had not explored a medical avenue to source out the cause of the pain and personality alteration.

Burnt State - I agree because I also think there could be times when medical conditions could be the cause (or a medical episode brought on by some kind of drug use or drug interaction in the case of legal prescriptions). For example, has anyone heard actor/comedian Tim Heidecker tell about the incident that happened with his neighbor's son who flipped out and stabbed him while ODing? It sounded pretty dramatic (maybe more so coming from someone who is supposed to be a funny guy):

 

[Nathaniel]

Starise, I certainly do not believe in a source of evil. I believe that negative energy is created by physical beings. Evil is entirely subjective anyway.

Source/god/all that is/a peanut butter sandwich, it doesn't matter.

And there really is no need to feel sorry for me, I'm doing just fine.

Peace.

 

[Randall]

Starise, I certainly do not believe in a source of evil. I believe that negative energy is created by physical beings ...

In defense of Starise I beg to differ. There are definitely sources of evil ...​

​

... consider the cult of the giant purple dinosaur ...​

 

[Burnt State]

"Demons' began as a metaphor." Not true. Demons began when they began and they are beings.

I guess that's a pretty interesting dividing line - whether or not evil has a discarnate identity, or just something we've been busy making art about ever since we first began making art. It's a real chicken and egg scenario, whatever the source of evil may be. Certainly, humanity has been evil's butcher, handyman, accomplice and designer over the centuries. It's kinda what we do.

Was Hitler a demon? What about Idi Amin, Manson, Bundy or Ramirez? Some claimed they were just doing right by Satan and all that. Humans express evil; are lead there by leaders; we go wild with bloodlust in a good mob; we wage war and commit genocide. These tortures we make upon each other are demonic, horrific and inexplicably sad.

It is evil's inexplicability that mostly confuses me, so whether they are discarnate beings or just part of our reptile brain I'm not sure. But on a positive note, we are in fact living in the most peaceful age the world has known as we have become increasingly a more non-violent planet despite the media hype.

I do agree with the idea of not feeding "them". There's a good reason for the " Don't Feed The Tigers" sign at the local zoo.

If "higher vibrations" is like meditating on nothingness, to learn how to care for others by being peaceful with ourselves, instead of feeding our demons, then I'm all for it.

 

[dyingsun]

"Demons' are symbols of resistance." Not true. No more than I am a symbol of a man.

"Demons' began as a metaphor." Not true. Demons began when they began and they are beings.

"Demons' have no power of assertion." Not true. Within certain confines they have plenty of assertion.

" There is not a source of evil". If you really believe this then I feel sorry for you. You take denial to another level.

"There is ONE source of energy in this universe". We also disagree here. There are many sources of energy. Depending on the context you are approaching this in, these sources of energy have personalities and personages. If you are referring to God why not simply say so?

I am aware of the idea of "vibrations"- Are you in the GHZ range? Mostly what I hear from you are inuendos and references with no concrete foundation.

I do agree with the idea of not feeding "them". There's a good reason for the " Don't Feed The Tigers" sign at the local zoo. But demons a symbols....nah.

Just to be clear here, you don't think humanity created them in the first place ?
Not to go into the whole Subconsciousness thing again, but you believe they come from somewhere else ? Like a literal Heaven, and they are angry at us and all that ?

 

[mike]

"Demons' are symbols of resistance." Not true. No more than I am a symbol of a man.

"Demons' began as a metaphor." Not true. Demons began when they began and they are beings.

"Demons' have no power of assertion." Not true. Within certain confines they have plenty of assertion.

" There is not a source of evil". If you really believe this then I feel sorry for you. You take denial to another level.

"There is ONE source of energy in this universe". We also disagree here. There are many sources of energy. Depending on the context you are approaching this in, these sources of energy have personalities and personages. If you are referring to God why not simply say so?

I am aware of the idea of "vibrations"- Are you in the GHZ range? Mostly what I hear from you are inuendos and references with no concrete foundation.

I do agree with the idea of not feeding "them". There's a good reason for the " Don't Feed The Tigers" sign at the local zoo. But demons a symbols....nah.

Mostly what I hear from you are inuendos and references with no concrete foundation

Hilarious..........

You make these absolute claims but have no concrete foundations to prove any of them.

Good and evil are human constructs, they exist in our minds.

Is it good or evil when a lion eats the hind quarters of a still living gazelle, its eyes rolling in pain and terror ?


One mans meat is another mans poison as the saying goes, its all relative.

Does good and evil exist on the moon ?, or is it just an airless rock nothing more nothing less.

No one has ever shown me proof god or demons are real, and the onus is on those claiming they are to do so.
There is no evidence for god, no evidence for demons.

Good and evil are relative to the eye of the beholder, for some a well cooked thanksgiving turkey is good, for a vegan its evil.

In that context is cranberry sauce good or evil...............................

 

[mike]

Good or evil ?

Or just stupid humans............... being stupid humans

 

[dyingsun]

Stupid and angry humans, loads of them, I am one, doubt there were less in 'whatever time period back then. Want me to summon one of these ..., it'll have a devastating effect on me, thought and believe IS power. Laters.

 

[mike]

 

[mike]

 

[dyingsun]

Don't be afraid, in the end.

 

[dyingsun]

I can only reliably do Baphomet by the way . That Satan Spawn, that one.. (and it isn't), but well, good luck searching for answers, that christianity 'corset' might provide for some, know that all that don't particularly believe in that, are not evil.

 

[mike]

 

[dyingsun]

Seems all those Demons and the big 'Kahuna' out there don't seem all that different in that sense.

 

[mike]

First im not bashing christianty here, like project bluebeam im just using references specific to the target culture.
If this was an asian or middle eastern forum, i would use examples that worked with their cultural context.

Humans are hard wired to employ mechanisms to control the world, its why we started wearing skins and making fires to counter the cold.

When a strong storm comes along and blows down our straw huts we have two ways of dealing with it.

We can ackowledge we have no control over the natural world, and live in fear of the next storm, or we can ascribe the action to "bad spirits" or demons and use mechanisms to ward them off, in asia this would be incense in europe the amulet.

It gives us the illusion of some sense of control over the environment, if the local volcano drops hot pumice on your village, throw a virgin into the cauldera, keep doing it until the (evil spririt) of the volcano is satisfied or you run out of virgins.

But in truth the natural world throws us a curve ball every now and then, its not the fault of demons or any number of other imaginary entitys, its just the way things are

This video is a classic example

God didnt "answer her prayers", she found her dog alive while a scant few blocks away infants died in the disaster.

It was simply a natural event, nothing more nothing less

The "good" spirit didnt do her any favours, nor was this imaginary entity responsible for the babies killed in the event.

The truth is what happened was beyond anyones control, but we hate that idea, its easier to ascribe such natural events to supernatural entitys rather than face the cold reality we have no control over them.

So in asia we use incense to ward of "demons" and in europe we use talismans and amulets, it gives us sense of control over the natural world.

But the harsh reality is they are not real, and sometimes the wind will blow your teepee down and destroy your crops.

In a modern world weve swapped incense for insurance, though even that will often not cover an "act of god"

But its a better mechanism for dealing with natures curve balls, it wont stop them any more than sacrificing a virgin will, but it will help you rebuild after the inevitable