Do You Believe in Ghosts?

[Hotkafka]

Well, I just had a 30 min treatise on metaphysics get destroyed thanks to a power cord malfunction. Probably a good thing, seeing I'll get straight to the point. Science is a reaction to supernaturalism, and that's seems about as good a reason to begin a project as any. But a great leap was taken in assuming that rigid causality could explain EVERYTHING. Without breaking this statement down to it's ity bity stinking parts, I'll just encourage the kind folk here to consider the recent advancements in physics simply by those whom have proven crazy enough to consider removing the conceptual impass that exists with invoking material causality. If consciousness is the root of existence, a good many of these seemingly inexplicable pardoxes go away. Also, I've noticed that not too many people here have given consideration to the tragectory of NDE research, which, despite it's kooky and spooky exterior trappings, has advanced thanks to years of sound science and peer reviewed, university-based research. According to the data, the evidence for consciousness surviving death is looking far better than expected, and maybe even better than not.

 

[trainedobserver]

According to the data, the evidence for consciousenss surving death are looking far better than expected, and maybe even better than not.

My immediate problem with considering this is my present understanding of the self. The self for all practical purposes appears to be an illusion. It seems most people think of their perceived selves as being more real than what they understand their physical bodies to be, yet this perceived self is only manifest in the consciousness organ (your mind emerging from brain activity) of your real world body. Kill the body and the organs die along with it. The larger system of the species, the planet, the solar system, and ultimately the universe, continues on of course, regardless if one cell or another ceases to function. If something survives death it seems that it would belong and relate more to this greater whole than to a single dead cell. I say all this recognizing my understanding is limited and suspect at best.

 

[PararealitySaint]

No. I referring to the normal evolutionary development of the 3D brain/mind system of representing the real world. I don't think we have special "senses which make us aware of apparitions."

Ok, I respect what you have concluded in this, but I still find it hard to understand how a separate stimulus, such as an "intelligent" based apparition could possibly be a side effect of some "3D brain/mind system" which in and of itself is perceiving the variance. If as you say this is the case, then it's obvious that some form of telekinetic energy is influencing the host mind system, because if not, then how is it that the same mind system could learn about something, or be given the awareness (within say a perceived apparition within the mediums mindset) of say a murder victim in a ditch where the apparition said she was? This would be a physical attribute which in and of itself is separated from the conscious stimuli of the receptor that the 3D brain/mind system wouldn't have any initial control over? That makes very little sense (sorry), so could you help explain why this is occurring by using your theory?

I meant to allude to nothing of the sort. You have misunderstood me. These concepts are difficult to communicate. I think of apparitions as operational aberrations of the brain/mind system due to stimuli that is outside of the operational parameters of the system. The true nature of these stimuli is obscured from us by these operational constraints.

Which is why I then placed the "intelligence" factor within the apparition quotient. I could understand where a non driven outside stimulus would influence the way you say it would, but for a medium or anyone to actually be taught a new reality from the very same apparition, it would mean a conscious awarness and involvement, thus negating a side effect of the host 3D brain/mind system, wouldn't it?

The human brain/mind system isn't perfect and can never hope to be in any real sense. Our perception of the universe and our understanding of it will always be far, far, less than even remotely complete or accurate.

I agree with you on this but for different, more "divine or archetypical based, intelligent" reasons. To me the universe is filled with various things we cannot possibly perceive or even understand. It was one of the reasons why I liked Gene's last newsletter about the holodeck. But again, the difference that you and I seem to have is that you would rather believe that this "side effect" of the 3D brain/mind system is solely a product of evolutionary based, underdeveloped sense deprivation of a sort, and I feel it's directly related to the Lord's next step in the process. Again, we can honorably agree to disagree and that's why I love this medium.

I can only pray this will continue with every subject here for now on, because honestly Trained, and I am sure you would agree, the bantering with people spewing forth puts downs just wasn't making for an educational experience. Your interest in this is exceptional and I thank you for taking the time to discuss it.

 

[trainedobserver]

That makes very little sense (sorry), so could you help explain why this is occurring by using your theory?

From the content of your questions it is clear I still have not communicating this effectively. As I've written this up as concisely and completely as I know how, I just have to answer that question with a no at this point. As a side note: I find it extremely difficult to take mediums or their claims seriously.

but for a medium or anyone to actually be taught a new reality from the very same apparition, it would mean a conscious awarness and involvement, thus negating a side effect of the host 3D brain/mind system, wouldn't it?

The human imagination is almost boundless. For examples see: The book of Urantia, the writings of H.P. Lovecraft, and the writings of the numerous mystics, seers, and fantasy writers throughout history.

I can only pray this will continue with every subject here for now on, because honestly Trained, and I am sure you would agree, the bantering with people spewing forth puts downs just wasn't making for an educational experience. Your interest in this is exceptional and I thank you for taking the time to discuss it.

That isn't my problem because I don't engage in it and have no time or energy for disingenuous nonsense. Serious nonsense I can pencil in.

 

[Hotkafka]

My immediate problem with considering this is my present understanding of the self. The self for all practical purposes appears to be an illusion. It seems most people think of their perceived selves as being more real than what they understand their physical bodies to be, yet this perceived self is only manifest in the consciousness organ (your mind emerging from brain activity) of your real world body. Kill the body and the organs die along with it. The larger system of the species, the planet, the solar system, and ultimately the universe, continues on of course, regardless if one cell or another ceases to function. If something survives death it seems that it would belong and relate more to this greater whole than to a single dead cell. I say all this recognizing my understanding is limited and suspect at best.

I hear you. However if you're attributing self as a correlative of brain, body and material function, consciousness gets lumped right in there as being a product of these processes which emerge from organ and brain states. If materiality is a byproduct of consciousness, a fundamental state which allows for perception to emerge, we've got an entirely different scenario. That's why this NDE stuff is so interesting, according to the data, perception of self appears to be surviving physical death, organ failure, etc. There's not enough energy to support or sustain simple material processes, yet people are reporting conscious states, memory, reflection, engagement, etc.. Why and how that is suggests a substantial edit may be in order. Interestingly enough, Easterners flip the whole scenario and suggest that materialitiy is the illusion -albeit a tricky and persistent one.

 

[trainedobserver]

However if you're attributing self as a correlative of brain, body and material function, consciousness gets lumped right in there as being a product of these processes which emerge from organ and brain states.

Well yes that is how I see it. I think the self we know and love is analogous to a subroutine running in a larger program. By design the self subroutine is largely ignorant of the larger program in which it resides and receives instructions and information from. The I (awareness, the observer, whatever you want to call it) appears to be the end all be all (the real complete and genuine you) but in reality it is just another component of a larger whole. If there is anything that can be tapped into or explored it would seem to be this larger self from which the smaller self/ego/I/awareness emerges.

Why and how that is suggests a substantial edit may be in order. Interestingly enough, Easterners flip the whole scenario and suggest that materialitiy is the illusion -albeit a tricky and persistent one.

This is where it gets really interesting. What I am saying is that we have never experienced the real world that we consider to be the material world. We have only experienced our conscious mind as it molds itself into a representation of whatever actually lies on the other side of the senses. We mistake our conscious minds as the material world apparently because it isn't really necessary to make the distinction to operate. I think the majority of people, including those doing serious science, do not take this into account or perhaps are not even aware it in any real way. We mistake the phenomena for the noumena. We put things in the wrong realm almost by default.

 

[tyder001]

Easterners flip the whole scenario and suggest that materialitiy is the illusion -albeit a tricky and persistent one.

This is why I am so interested in the Consciouness as ground of being. I had a lucid dream some years ago. I actually looked "back" at my body and realized I was dreaming. Someone was walking beside me. I asked "what is the dream?" By that I didn't mean the dream I was having. I meant life. What was it's meaning and purpose. The "being" said to me. "You ask to much." Anyway, the Eastern concept of this world being the illusion has some meaning for me due to that dream. Still, when it comes to life after death I honestly believe I will wake up one day. But, nobody knows for sure. I don't know for sure but I have reason to lean toward the positive side of the question. :-})

 

[PararealitySaint]

Ok, in reading everyone's reply to this, there is still something (in the context of apparitions/Ghosts as this is the subject) which isn't answered as a definitive explanation for why people see "intelligent" entities perform fetes of unbelievable accuracy outside the realm of the person witnessing the haunt....That if the entire phenomenon is nothing more than the "operational aberrations of the brain/mind system due to stimuli that is outside of the operational parameters of the system", than why would there be a direct involvement upon the host, even if there is no direct initial need for thus.

Example:

We have self awareness advancements, not experiencing the "real world", underdeveloped perceptions, etc. but none of it clearly explains why little Jimmy, whose sitting in his room one day, gets a visit by his long dead Grandfather who tells him that Mommy's cosmetic case is actually under the papers in her classroom.

1. The entity is obviously intelligent as there is a clear communication shared by both the apparition and little Jimmy.
2. The entity, or the ghost of Jimmy's Grandfather has just informed the boy of a cosmetic case which Jimmy really doesn't understand completely what it is, no less why its important or clearly used for.
3. Jimmy never visited mommy's place of work so he has no idea about papers in a position where the apparition told him it is.
4. The case was found by mommy the next day, exactly where Jimmy told her it would be.

In this, not only was the object in question outside of Jimmy's personal need or interest, it was something found in a different place, by someone else, and directed there by an outside stimulus which, if nothing more than a "stimuli that is outside of the operational parameters of the system", shouldn't have had a reason to have even touched Jimmy's mindset at all.

In conclusion, "intelligent" awareness via an entity which manifested for a reason outside of the boy's need is the key factor here. For it to have been an aberration only, the intelligence factor as discussed in this thread before, would be impossible, mainly because of the third party involved.

To me it leads to the assurances that there is another dimension we cannot see beyond our own, that there is intelligent spiritual apparitions not aberrations which some call demons, others dead humans, some E.T.'s, but definitely separate from our mindsets and influencing us each and every day.

 

[trainedobserver]

Example: ..Mommy's cosmetic case...

We can come up with any number of hypothetical situations and anecdotal tales we can what if and why with no hope of resolving. Whatever we come up with, the solution with the least assumptions wins. That puts a great deal of this stuff to misinformation, misinterpretation, misunderstanding, assumptions, bad reporting, poor investigation, physiological, psychological and other prosaic causes before we leap into the surreal worlds of the supernatural.

Hypothetically speaking, if an entity appeared and said it was Jimmy's Grandfather, knew specific information, etc., etc.,etc. Why would we believe anything it had to say about itself, even with alleged proofs? I would not. If the sky cracked open and Jesus Christ in all his magnificent glory seemingly appeared above me surrounded by the heavenly host singing, "Glory, Glory, Glory", I would be highly suspicious of the whole business. I hope that I would. There seems to be, to some extent as I've talked about elsewhere an irrational belief instilled, induced or otherwise strongly suggested by some paranormal events on the person having the experience. I'd hope I'd be able to keep my wits about me in any case and avoid such a mental state. Such things may be presenting themselves truthfully or not. Encounters of claims with the paranormal seem to be often fraught with deception, destruction, madness, not to mention the hebbie-jebbies.

If the spirits of the dead must hang around and pine over things from their past or concern themselves with the deeds of the living, then it is a sad state to be sure. It is incompatible with my understanding of how the human body and reality work as a whole. Ghosts are also incompatible with mainstream Christian theology as I understood it the 30 something years I believed and studied it.

 

[Hotkafka]

We can come up with any number of hypothetical situations and anecdotal tales we can what if and why with no hope of resolving. Whatever we come up with, the solution with the least assumptions wins. That puts a great deal of this stuff to misinformation, misinterpretation, misunderstanding, assumptions, bad reporting, poor investigation, physiological, psychological and other prosaic causes before we leap into the surreal worlds of the supernatural.

Hypothetically speaking, if an entity appeared and said it was Jimmy's Grandfather, knew specific information, etc., etc.,etc. Why would we believe anything it had to say about itself, even with alleged proofs? I would not. If the sky cracked open and Jesus Christ in all his magnificent glory seemingly appeared above me surrounded by the heavenly host singing, "Glory, Glory, Glory", I would be highly suspicious of the whole business. I hope that I would. There seems to be, to some extent as I've talked about elsewhere an irrational belief instilled, induced or otherwise strongly suggested by some paranormal events on the person having the experience. I'd hope I'd be able to keep my wits about me in any case and avoid such a mental state. Such things may be presenting themselves truthfully or not. Encounters of claims with the paranormal seem to be often fraught with deception, destruction, madness, not to mention the hebbie-jebbies.

If the spirits of the dead must hang around and pine over things from their past or concern themselves with the deeds of the living, then it is a sad state to be sure. It is incompatible with my understanding of how the human body and reality work as a whole. Ghosts are also incompatible with mainstream Christian theology as I understood it the 30 something years I believed and studied it.

I have to admit, I like your take on the whole mind/consciousness business. It's like reverse engineering the Eastern "all is mind" koan. However, if things turn out otherwise, I'd hate to see you shuttled into the afterlife struggling to keep your cool with all that is incompatible. That would make for fine entertainment.

Having now made a joke of this, I realise I'll most likely be "there" doing the same damn thing. I'm guessing this kind of behavior will make us fine candidates for recycling.

 

[trainedobserver]

I have to admit, I like your take on the whole mind/consciousness business. It's like reverse engineering the Eastern "all is mind" koan. However, if things turn out otherwise, I'd hate to see you shuttled into the afterlife struggling to keep your cool with all that is incompatible.

I appreciate that. I struggle to communicate these concepts and never really feel like I've done so well enough. I don't claim to originate these ideas other than injecting my own misunderstanding and confusion into the work of others.

A couple of years ago I was reading and thinking about all this sort of thing quite a bit. One day I was driving down the road and everything clicked in and I recognized the world around me as my own conscious mind. I remember looking into the vault of the sky and realized what I was looking at was the substance of my own mind, and somewhere beyond that blue sky was perhaps a bit of grey matter and then the real world. I laughed, cried, the whole nine yards. It was some sort of mini-satori-like experience. It wasn't like I didn't know about how the senses and brain construct our own versions of the outside world, I just didn't realize it or experience it as a reality until that moment. I know all that sounds a little nutty to some folks but it is what it is.

Only time will tell if I've misconstrued reality. If some type of after-life does exist, I highly suspect that belief in it isn't a prerequisite. The supernatural claims of mankind's religions are so varied and conflicting I can find no reason to believe one over another. I suspect if the after-life is a reality we have yet to learn its true nature.

If I am ushered into some meeting with a deity of some kind I'd hope I'd just play along and adapt. If I have learned anything over the years it is that one of the most important things one can do is to love what is rather than wish for something that is not. So if I find myself somewhere else I'll just be there. If such things as gods presiding over an after-life do exist our beliefs about them one way or another won't matter much I imagine.

That would make for fine entertainment. Having now made a joke of this, I realise I'll most likely be "there" doing the same damn thing.

Ha, ha. Well, maybe I'll meet you in the green room.

I'm guessing this kind of behavior will make us fine candidates for recycling

I certainly hope not. I don't know about you, but I am more than ready to jump off the wheel myself.

 

[PararealitySaint]

We can come up with any number of hypothetical situations and anecdotal tales we can what if and why with no hope of resolving. Whatever we come up with, the solution with the least assumptions wins. That puts a great deal of this stuff to misinformation, misinterpretation, misunderstanding, assumptions, bad reporting, poor investigation, physiological, psychological and other prosaic causes before we leap into the surreal worlds of the supernatural.

Hypothetically speaking, if an entity appeared and said it was Jimmy's Grandfather, knew specific information, etc., etc.,etc. Why would we believe anything it had to say about itself, even with alleged proofs? I would not. If the sky cracked open and Jesus Christ in all his magnificent glory seemingly appeared above me surrounded by the heavenly host singing, "Glory, Glory, Glory", I would be highly suspicious of the whole business. I hope that I would. There seems to be, to some extent as I've talked about elsewhere an irrational belief instilled, induced or otherwise strongly suggested by some paranormal events on the person having the experience. I'd hope I'd be able to keep my wits about me in any case and avoid such a mental state. Such things may be presenting themselves truthfully or not. Encounters of claims with the paranormal seem to be often fraught with deception, destruction, madness, not to mention the hebbie-jebbies.

If the spirits of the dead must hang around and pine over things from their past or concern themselves with the deeds of the living, then it is a sad state to be sure. It is incompatible with my understanding of how the human body and reality work as a whole. Ghosts are also incompatible with mainstream Christian theology as I understood it the 30 something years I believed and studied it.

The example I used was a case I had known about years ago from a personal friend. The reason I had brought this up was because of the fact that an outside the box entity with a conscious perception and a communicative relation just cannot be ignored so easily Trained. Whatever the perception is, and however you take the perception, it would still be an intelligent perception, outside of your brain's neurological control (in terms of manipulation from this original stimuli), as you have no control over the "cosmetic case", the mother's involvement, or event the third party apparition for that matter. If I am right and this is indeed the case, then there has to be something more out there than mere metabolic brain deprivations or similar singularity reasoning. Not to say that a great amount of the time these apparitions might just be a product of an over active imagination, but I have been witness to some personal phenomena which I could not explain in that context.

That being said, as far as those of the dead coming back and involving themselves with the living in such mundane matters, I happen to agree with you. I don't want to get too much into my personal beliefs or faith on the matter, but leave it to say I don't believe in ghosts.

 

[tyder001]

Not to get to caught up on the question of ghost but I'm gonna make a statement that is scientifcally, skeptically, theologicaly and ethically true. : "I don't know."

That being said I do find the judgement or opinon on the "motive" the dead might have for a haunting to be (forgive me cause I'm not trying to be a smart aleck here) laughable. After all if we do survive death (and there are enough honest reasons pro and con depending on your worldview) then I would say there might be many reasons a "person" might hang around after death and haunt a place. After all one of the myths is that upon death we will be "all knowing" and intellegent. When in fact we may be a crazy in the afterlife as we are in this one. In that case there would be good people and bad people and people who walk around aimlessly and people who are go getters. There would be saints and baddies and all in between. Point being that we can't always understand the motive of others that are still in the ole flesh must less once we shuffle off this mortal coil. Anyway, if ya think we just wink out then I guess it's a non starter for ya. But, if you honestly consider life after death then you have to consider that you don't know a damn thing about the motive of an indivdual or if it makes sense to a certain person to hang around this earthly veil of tears.

I tend to think we reincarnate which to me makes as much sense maybe more and to some as little sense as "winking out into nothingness" or Ressurection or merging with Nivana.

Namtaste
Darwin bless you.
Jesus loves you
Goddess watch over you
Save the trees
Save the whales
Damn it all

---------- Post added at 02:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:25 PM ----------

The damn it all thing comes from an old cartoon I saw in a magazine years ago. It has a picture of Satan at his desk. It was a parody of the little sayings that some of us put up at our workstations. He was grinning and working away and the sign said "Damn it all." I always thought that was funny. But, then again if you have to explain a joke then.......

 

[trainedobserver]

The reason I had brought this up was because of the fact that an outside the box entity with a conscious perception and a communicative relation just cannot be ignored so easily Trained.

I think you are belaboring the point with me a bit. I freely admitted in more than one posting in this thread that there could be entities, objects, and forces out there that are responsible for some paranormal experiences.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that you think ghosts and ufos are demonic deceptions adhering to a personal interpretation of the Bible. My contention is that we have no reason to believe one religious tradition concerning these things over another, in fact any human generated story concerning them should be highly suspect for the reasons I've outlined in posts in this thread. These things may very well appear to fit your conceptualization for demonic activity but does that actually confirm and validate anything? I don't think that it does but I'm certainly not claiming to have a corner on the truth.

---------- Post added at 09:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:31 AM ----------

I tend to think we reincarnate...

That has to be the most undesirable outcome of all. I just want to get some rest!

 

[PararealitySaint]

I think you are belaboring the point with me a bit. I freely admitted in more than one posting in this thread that there could be entities, objects, and forces out there that are responsible for some paranormal experiences.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that you think ghosts and ufos are demonic deceptions adhering to a personal interpretation of the Bible. My contention is that we have no reason to believe one religious tradition concerning these things over another, in fact any human generated story concerning them should be highly suspect for the reasons I've outlined in posts in this thread. These things may very well appear to fit your conceptualization for demonic activity but does that actually confirm and validate anything? I don't think that it does but I'm certainly not claiming to have a corner on the truth.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't remember any place in our discussion where I mentioned that I had a "corner" on the market when it comes to this subject either. It's just my opinion that if as you say there are "entities" and objects or forces outside of your theory that are responsible for some paranormal experiences, then why is it so much of a leap to believe in the afterlife as causing thus? You have already stated in the past that there is only one dimension. If this is the case, then how can you have it both ways? Other influences like, "entities, objects, and forces out there" outside of your theory yet within the same dimension...yet not aberrations?

I do not propose to force anyone to believe in my personal religious views, and I think I have been quite honest about that remark on this forum for a long time now. If you feel as though E.T. is your savoir, or Odin, I am not the one to stop you. As far as believing one religion over another, again, faith alone will get you there. My faith has gotten me to the Lord Jesus Christ, probably because I was raised in a Catholic, albeit Christain oriented religious atmosphere. My parents were quite liberal in their views, and after my Mother and Father divorced, my Mother married someone of the Jewish persuasion, which gave yours truly decades of a Semitic education as well. In my later years I have also studied the Bhagavad Gita, The Koran, Zen Buddhism, Druidism, Norse Mythology and other Eastern philosophy.

Lastly, without delving too far into my personal beliefs here, you are correct in your assumption of my feelings toward E.T. and ghosts. I do in fact feel that they are not what they seem to be, but I do believe they are out there and that they are a force to be reckoned with.

 

[trainedobserver]

It's just my opinion that if as you say there are "entities" and objects or forces outside of your theory that are responsible for some paranormal experiences, then why is it so much of a leap to believe in the afterlife as causing thus?

The phrase "outside of your theory" confuses me. I don't quite understand what you're getting at.

I meant there may be things co-existing with us in the real world which are not represented by our brain/mind systems properly which our brains wrap the ghost/demon/ufo/alien story around in an effort to represent them. I don't think there is an after-life so it isn't included in my theory. Certainly if you assume there is an after-life you can use that to leap off into any number of explanations for these things depending on whose version of the after-life you want to adopt. I choose none due to lack of convincing evidence. Your mileage may vary.

You have already stated in the past that there is only one dimension. If this is the case, then how can you have it both ways?

You misunderstand what I'm trying to say. I can't seem to express it clearly enough. No matter.

Lastly, without delving too far into my personal beliefs here, you are correct in your assumption of my feelings toward E.T. and ghosts. I do in fact feel that they are not what they seem to be, but I do believe they are out there and that they are a force to be reckoned with.

On that we can agree then. I don't think these things are what they appear to be either.

 

[PararealitySaint]

The phrase "outside of your theory" confuses me. I don't quite understand what you're getting at.

I meant there may be things co-existing with us in the real world which are not represented by our brain/mind systems properly which our brains wrap the ghost/demon/ufo/alien story around in an effort to represent them. I don't think there is an after-life so it isn't included in my theory. Certainly if you assume there is an after-life you can use that to leap off into any number of explanations for these things depending on whose version of the after-life you want to adopt. I choose none due to lack of convincing evidence. Your mileage may vary.

Yes, outside as in a "different part of".....

 

[The Pair of Cats]

Not to get to caught up on the question of ghost but I'm gonna make a statement that is scientifcally, skeptically, theologicaly and ethically true. : "I don't know."

That being said I do find the judgement or opinon on the "motive" the dead might have for a haunting to be (forgive me cause I'm not trying to be a smart aleck here) laughable. After all if we do survive death (and there are enough honest reasons pro and con depending on your worldview) then I would say there might be many reasons a "person" might hang around after death and haunt a place. After all one of the myths is that upon death we will be "all knowing" and intellegent. When in fact we may be a crazy in the afterlife as we are in this one. In that case there would be good people and bad people and people who walk around aimlessly and people who are go getters. There would be saints and baddies and all in between. Point being that we can't always understand the motive of others that are still in the ole flesh must less once we shuffle off this mortal coil. Anyway, if ya think we just wink out then I guess it's a non starter for ya. But, if you honestly consider life after death then you have to consider that you don't know a damn thing about the motive of an indivdual or if it makes sense to a certain person to hang around this earthly veil of tears.
I tend to think we reincarnate which to me makes as much sense maybe more and to some as little sense as "winking out into nothingness" or Ressurection or merging with Nivana.

I agree. I also don't know with any certainty of any of it, but i am of the opinion that we reincarnate. One reason for "ghosts" hanging around the earthly plane, (i have heard and read), is that they may be unwilling to detach from earthly possessions or people. They bypass the chance to move on, or reincarnate, to hang around people they may have loved or properties that they may have owned.. They also may not know that they are dead. (I know that this is sounding like the 6th Sense, lol). Perhaps some, when they die suddenly or tragically, are unable to fathom what has happened to them and maybe unable to accept it.
I think you maybe right when you say....

When in fact we may be a crazy in the afterlife as we are in this one.

.
As i said before, i don't really know for sure but my gut feeling is that there is some kind of afterlife where spirits and other entities may reside.

 

[kukalakana]

At the moment I'm leaning more towards the "No" end of the belief spectrum. Ghosts are fascinating from an anthropological / mythological, even psychological, standpoint. But do I believe in their existence? Not particularly.

 

[tyder001]

I don't delete because once I post it I own it. But, I do think about it at times and it has kept me from hitting the "post reply" button.

Once in Hawaii two sisters were fighting. They really were telling each other off. All of a sudden their grandmother comes walking out of the house with a butcher knife and a feather pillow. She walks to the ocean and the girls follow her. She takes the knife and cuts the pillow and slings the feathers into the wind and out over the ocean. "Grandma, what are you doing?" She replied "I want you to go and get back every feather I just slung out over the ocean." What? Grandma that's impossible. The grandmother replied "Yes, it is. and that is how your words are. Once you say them it's impossible to ever get them back." So, think before you say something else to your sister.

Old Hawaiian tail I picked up some years ago. I was thinking about Hawaii tonight on a warm evening here in the south. Then this post made me think of this story. Doesn't really fit here. But, it's a good story and I heard it in Hawaii where "Talking Story" is a good thing to do.

Aloha. 8)

Oh and by the way. Of course I believe in ghost. I was born in the south and can even tell you where some of them are. Matter of fact in true southern fashion this lady. Recently passed is a good example of how we feel about ghost in my part of the world. I pretty much agree with her take on the subject.