Does the Phenomenon deserve study

[boomerang]

I happened to be listening to an interview by Greg Bishop of Bill Moore recently. Setting aside whatever credibility problems (ahem..) Moore may have, he made a statement with which I must agree. And that is simply, that whatever ufos are--ET, extra-dimensional or whatever--they completely control our perception of them. The caveat, of course, would be governments hoarding tangible evidence that might allow scientific study. But here again, we wind up in the same old hall of mirrors. Evidence of governmental involvement seems irrefutable, yet hidden behind an impenetrable barrier and we are left with hearsay and speculation. This does not seem to rule anything in our out. There is something very quantum about all of this, in that the act of observing seems to do away with certain aspects of the evidence.

 

[Trajanus]

I happened to be listening to an interview by Greg Bishop of Bill Moore recently. Setting aside whatever credibility problems (ahem..) Moore may have, he made a statement with which I must agree. And that is simply, that whatever ufos are--ET, extra-dimensional or whatever--they completely control our perception of them. The caveat, of course, would be governments hoarding tangible evidence that might allow scientific study. But here again, we wind up in the same old hall of mirrors. Evidence of governmental involvement seems irrefutable, yet hidden behind an impenetrable barrier and we are left with hearsay ...

Some firsthand testimony notably the Marcels.

---------- Post added at 11:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:10 AM ----------

To list a few of the explanations hypothesized (this is for the 1-5% of sightings and events that can't be explained by natural phenomena, clouds, etc)
1. Demons here to cause mischeif.

"Demons" are not for the real world. The phenomenon is obviously very advanced and capable and you don't progress by being inherently destructive.

2. Inter-dimensional probes, travelers, etc.

As was pointed out on another board, some of the criticisms of the ETH--such as high strangeness, would be a problem for the EDH too.

3. Human race originated time travelers.

Seems impossible--the past doesn't exist anymore.

4. Secret government vehicles.

There have been UFO reports for centuries. Even if they only existed from '47 on, by now you'd think the "secret vehicles" would be in open or common use.

5. A secret advanced race of beings from right here on earth hiding from the human race.(Hollow Earth, Atlanteans, etc)

Lol, I've addressed this before. Considering their superiority, why hide?? Also, there's absolutely no fossil evidence for a lineage leading to higher intelligence, save the one that led to us.

6. EVERY event will be eventually explained by currently unkown natural forces at work (i.e. earthquake lights).

Sure, even abductions...

7. Advanced intelligent life originating from another star system here to explore and/or study the human race.

More may be involved than study.

Well I guess they could originate from this solar system, but from where and how?

Doesn't seem possible.

Since we have no evidence either way,

Plenty for ETH.

one explanation is just as good as another..

Lol, no way. Granted all may have problems. But the ETH is still best.

PS: Always great to see you here, mike.

 

[boomerang]

Quote Originally Posted by boomerang View Post I happened to be listening to an interview by Greg Bishop of Bill Moore recently. Setting aside whatever credibility problems (ahem..) Moore may have, he made a statement with which I must agree. And that is simply, that whatever ufos are--ET, extra-dimensional or whatever--they completely control our perception of them. The caveat, of course, would be governments hoarding tangible evidence that might allow scientific study. But here again, we wind up in the same old hall of mirrors. Evidence of governmental involvement seems irrefutable, yet hidden behind an impenetrable barrier and we are left with hearsay ... Some firsthand testimony notably the Marcels.

I agree the Marcels are credible and truthful. But their physical evidence, with which we might formulate testable hypotheses and do real science, lies somewhere behind that mysterious barrier. Over a period of decades, this becomes almost as high strangeness as the phenomenon itself.

We shouldn't be surprised if the "nuts and bolts" have gone back from whence they came--in this 4D space or otherwise.

 

[Trajanus]

I agree the Marcels are credible and truthful. But their physical evidence, with which we might formulate testable hypotheses and do real science, lies somewhere behind that mysterious barrier. Over a period of decades, this becomes almost as high strangeness as the phenomenon itself.

We shouldn't be surprised if the "nuts and bolts" have gone back from whence they came--in this 4D space or otherwise.

Lol, at least there's other physical evidence albeit not as good.

 

[PararealitySaint]

Lol, at least there's other physical evidence albeit not as good.

Other physical evidence? Please tell us what other "physical" evidence there is....

Now notice I said "physical" not hearsay and good Sci-Fi reading....

Something like the crashed craft, the alien bodies. Please show me something like this and then you have something there.

 

[RJHark00]

We have radar blips and indentations in the ground, Saint.

 

[tyder001]

Don't 4git the metal! They actually found "metal" in the ground. I mean wow, and I thought that was just old water lines in my back yard.

 

[mike]

http://www.angelfire.com/mo/cptr/dir.html

http://www.angelfire.com/mo/cptr/

https://www.theparacast.com/podcast/now-playing-august-1-2010-%e2%80%94-co-host-christopher-obrien-with-ted-phillips/

https://www.theparacast.com/podcast/march-30-2008-ted-phillips/



[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Here we have a striking situation. Two groups of persons unknown to each other have witnessed the same UFO encounter and entities. They also experienced missing time, and each group has been available to competent investigators. Independent witnesses have provided information which enable cross-checking and correlations to reveal a remarkable amount of similar information. The result is a compelling case for the reality of the strange events.described. The ontological status of the events is further strengthened by a range of apparently related physical traces, including ground traces, a magnetic anomaly, and effects on some of the witnesses."[/FONT]

http://www.theozfiles.com/kelly_cahill.html

http://www.theozfiles.com/trace-cases-1.html
http://www.theozfiles.com/anomaly_investigation_group.html

 

[tyder001]

Interesting. A little long so I've bookmarked the site for later reading.

---------- Post added at 02:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:54 AM ----------

Reminds me somewhat of the guy named Nigel Kerner that I heard interviewed on podcast some months ago. The thing is he took a stance that the aliens were artificial intelligence and they were trying to either steal or somehow manipulate our souls. I'll have to try to find the interview or a snynopsis of his book because I'm sure I'm a little off with that explanation. Anyway, thanks for the link. 8)

 

[mike]

Could be one of two books

"song of the greys" or "grey aliens and the harvesting of souls"

Like Kelly Cahill, Kerner is looking at the experience through a deep religious filter.

I think Kerner might be touching on the reality of the enigma, but his conclusions are imo tainted by his social pre programming.

http://nigelkerner.com/

 

[tyder001]

Thanks, that is the one I was thinking of. I'll read the site. He does have an interesting take. I enjoy reading different takes on the subject. I don't know what if anything is actually objectively happening but it is interesting.

---------- Post added at 09:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:07 AM ----------

I think Kerner might be touching on the reality of the enigma, but his conclusions are imo tainted by his social pre programming.

Very interesting and once I got started I just started going from link to link. Either there are some seriously "ill" folks out there and they are going off the deep end together or there is something going on that is indeed psychological/spiritual and is playing in our biological world. I kind of think it's still somewhere in the middle but I honestly don't know for sure. However, we all (you and me included) are pre programmed to an extent. Some by religion and some by their "understanding" of science. Some by prejudice and some by physical limitations and social standing. We all have our likes and dislikes and we all want the ultimate reality to be something that confirms our worldview. An actual alien presence might indeed turn our understanding of religion and science and even what it means to be human on it's collective ear. Wonder if we will ever be "ready" for that.

 

[Trajanus]

We have radar blips and indentations in the ground, Saint.

Right, that's what I meant. Also some injuries.

 

[tyder001]

Right, that's what I meant. Also some injuries.

Now this I do think needs to be addressed better in the skeptical community. There was (according to some reading I've done) some actual alledged radiation posioning and other things suffered by somebody getting to close to an alledged craft. Still, it could well have been military or it could have been a nuts and bolts u.f.o. I sometime do let the "conspiracy" theory part of my brain out for a stroll. I just don't let it run to far on it's own.

 

[Trajanus]

Now this I do think needs to be addressed better in the skeptical community. There was (according to some reading I've done) some actual alledged radiation posioning and other things suffered by somebody getting to close to an alledged craft.

Michalak and cash-landrum are two such cases.

Still, it could well have been military or it could have been a nuts and bolts u.f.o.

I doubt what michalak encountered was military.

 

[PararealitySaint]

We have radar blips and indentations in the ground, Saint.

Made by? Prove how this was made by an "out worldly" extraterrestrial object Hark.....

 

[mike]

Thanks, that is the one I was thinking of. I'll read the site. He does have an interesting take. I enjoy reading different takes on the subject. I don't know what if anything is actually objectively happening but it is interesting.

---------- Post added at 09:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:07 AM ----------




Very interesting and once I got started I just started going from link to link. Either there are some seriously "ill" folks out there and they are going off the deep end together or there is something going on that is indeed psychological/spiritual and is playing in our biological world. I kind of think it's still somewhere in the middle but I honestly don't know for sure. However, we all (you and me included) are pre programmed to an extent. Some by religion and some by their "understanding" of science. Some by prejudice and some by physical limitations and social standing. We all have our likes and dislikes and we all want the ultimate reality to be something that confirms our worldview. An actual alien presence might indeed turn our understanding of religion and science and even what it means to be human on it's collective ear. Wonder if we will ever be "ready" for that.

While its true we are all pre programmed, I make a point of not holding on to mine too tightly.

In a sea of ideas i prefer to float alone, rather than cling to individual answers.

I prefer to measure reality on the balance of probabilitys rather than simple yes/no answers

 

[Trajanus]

While its true we are all pre programmed, I make a point of not holding on to mine too tightly.

In a sea of ideas i prefer to float alone, rather than cling to individual answers.

I prefer to measure reality on the balance of probabilitys rather than simple yes/no answers

If the probability is high enough, I'd assume a yes.

 

[boomerang]

Michalak and cash-landrum are two such cases.

Where oh where (!) have the medical records gone? I recall seeing one on-camera interview of Cash's doctor recalling the strange nature of her injuries, and I assume he is a real person and a real doctor. I think his name is on record somewhere.

 

[Trajanus]

Where oh where (!) have the medical records gone? I recall seeing one on-camera interview of Cash's doctor recalling the strange nature of her injuries, and I assume he is a real person and a real doctor...

Considering her condition and need for treatment, I'd assume that too.

 

[PararealitySaint]

Considering her condition and need for treatment, I'd assume that too.

And what oh what would the medical records after the event prove anyway? That something or someone caused them to happen to her? How do we know that they weren't self inflicted or inflicted by a terrestrial being?

Let's say for the record that her injuries are in fact strange....Well then, why wouldn't this fall into the realm of a demonic attack, considering the fact that we haven't caught the culprit in the act and have no idea how it originated?