Dr. Steven Greer --> Here we go ...

[TClaeys]

This will surely be an unpopular post and certainly I will be lambasted for it, but the interview with Greer was much different than I thought it would be. Let me say that I’m not defending the validity of all Greers claims but what was a setup for him didn’t turn out as expected IMO. I expected hot pokers in the eyes from beginning to end if it even got that far. And I was looking forward to it. I was surprised at the result.

I don’t know what to make of “free energy”. It would seem that if it is possible, probably we would know by now. But at the same time it would be very upsetting to the world order. So as far as the 3 million bucks is concerned, couldn’t a contract be drawn up whereby Greer would not be able to see ANY of that money himself. For that matter couldn’t it be that Greer doesn’t see any money period from any money making endeavor?? If the scientists are willing to sit in a meeting and be seen and probably identified shouldn’t someone at least have a meeting to see if there is someone behind the curtain?? Is there any iota of a chance that other energy sourcing is actually possible??

But to move on to the sneak attack on the second hour. I really thought Greer answered the questions by David and Jeremy surprisingly well. And I’m shocked to even see myself writing something of this effect about someone I knew was a complete sham.

The mess with Cliff Stone and the like: I don’t know that the Disclosure project itself was responsible for the release of all these documents, but it has had an impact, for better or worse. The problem is the varying mix of cons and allegedly true stories. His answer was that the point of the project was to have people that would testify, under oath, under penalty of perjury that what they were saying was true. Perjury is a BIG thing with raw consequences. As stupid as Stone is, he was willing to go through this. And how would Greer be able to differentiate between a seemingly ridiculous testimony from a Salas one?? There isn’t any evidence either way with hardly any of these witnesses.

We know the deal with high strangeness, and probably believe the strangeness to be true, but we dismiss it when it comes out in a public forum. If people are willing to go to jail for telling a fabricated story what is anyone to do about it?? Again, the project was to identify people that would be under penalty for lying. Whats a country doctor to do with this type of testimony? I thought the answer made sense. It doesn’t make Stones story true, but it sets up dire consequences for lying. And it puts the premise of “Look at all these people and their willingness to face great consequences for lying. Maybe we should investigate this UFO “nonsense”. Look here are the people and the testimony”. It seems a bit different than throwing them all against the wall and seeing what sticks as Jeremy eluded to which was a great question.

Alien baby: I didn’t know much about this before hand. I thought there was some living entity that Greer was babysitting or something. He clarified the situation and said it may even be a hoax, albeit a good one.

Attempted contact and CSETI: Yes we may be murderous monkeys, but seriously, do we all have to join the mindset that we may never change?? Is there anything wrong in thinking perhaps someday we may become peaceful even if it is a sham? When Ritzmann says we may actually contact “them” and bring them in to our world we think this is fine, but when Greer attempts the same thing, and it is very controversial as he said, we all bitch about the money involved. So what. If people want to pay, so be it. Again can we design this so Greer never sees a dime out of it? How can we say it is OK for Jeff to invite these things, but when Greer does it in a group setting involving money it is a sham?? On to the money. (no offense Jeff)

Money: This is the biggest criticism against him, yet we don’t even ask the questions around it?? Dr Greer what about the money?? I can’t believe he didn’t get asked this question, and we rail him afterwards about something he couldn’t even answer to. I don’t know how this question was left out of the conversation. IMO this IS the conversation. He needs to answer up about this.

Don’t get me wrong, I have the utmost respect for David, Gene, Jeff, and so on. But I think maybe Greer was expected to fall flatter on his face. His answers, although filibuster-like, were better than forecasted. I thought that maybe David was a little out of character, and was determined to pounce and attack as was Jeremy and I was surprised at Greers retorts. I still don’t know about him and am more perplexed than I should be. I don’t think he is delusional. So that leaves either he is a liar or is gullible or is trying for some truth. Or a combination of all of these. It seems to me that even Dolan gives Greer some credibility, which makes me even more confused.

Sorry I haven’t read the 150+ posts, but I’m sure my take on this is incredibly unpopular and normally I’m a little more level headed. There are a lot more questions to be asked and certainly answered, but I don’t know that the story is over. What will we see this fall as Greer implied some “evidence” is coming out involving CSETI??

It’s embarrassing to even write this long post because I’ve long ago dismissed him. And sure I’ve got more to look into.

Alright, I’m ready to get my ass handed to me.

 

[valiens]

Fastwalker: "None of us can see into the psyche or soul of Steven Greer."

Then what was the rest of your post about?

TClaeys - Actually, Dolan thinks he's a liar or a disinfo agent.

 

[David Biedny]

You'll see NOTHING from cseti. They've had many years to show a SINGLE photo, and they have produced squat. Greer is lying - they'll release no images. So far, no one has mentioned the fact that he handily avoided directly answering the question of WHY he won't let folks who attend his picnics release their photos of mosquitos and airplanes. No one wants to probe his complete misrepresentation of the work of Tesla. Well, guess what - I'm happy and willing to get into a slugfest with the charlatans. On The Paracast, we'll call people out on their shit, in a way that we feel is appropriate. You might not all agree with our methods, but the results will speak for themselves. Outside of Jeremy's Culture of Contact, I've yet to hear a single other show in this space ask tough questions, regardless of specific methods deployed to that task.

I feel like I'm back in my youth - watching a bunch of kids beating up on one kid, everyone standing around and watching the fight, not lifting a finger, and me, jumping into the fray, grabbing the bullies by the neck and tossing them off the one kid under the pile.

So few are willing to act on their convictions, they'll complain but not do a damned thing to change anything.

I let out some pent-up aggression on that car crash of an episode, and I don't regret it a bit. Y'all feel that Greer is was "the winner"? Lovely. Like it means anything to the big picture.

If you think UFOs are a legitimate enigma, just know that Greer holds you beneath contempt. He thinks you're scum, sludge, just fools to be raked over and robbed.

He's all yours. Me, I wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire.

But I WILL kick him around a bit, for my own pleasure, cathartic release, if nothing else. Regardless of what anyone things about it. I suppose, like my dear girlfriend states, that I'm sometimes mule-headed. At least I come by it honestly.

dB

 

[Ally]

If Greer is THAT delusional about what he is spewing then how come he still has his medical licence?

He is obviously a greedy con that thinks nothing about ripping people off. For the people that think that if people are stupid enough to believe his crap then they deserve to be ripped off is not OK with me.

Some people for whatever reason are just more trusting and gullable, maybe less educated or intelligent than others. Think about some of the elderly that can be easy targets for con artists. Also new people in the field may have there own experiences and want the space brother aspect to be true. Vultures just love these people.

 

[fitzbew88]

"...sincere in his delusion..."

My take on Greer is that he's a pathological liar. He just can't help himself. However, wouldn't his delusions kinda be limited to personal "contact" experience? They wouldn't include hopping on a plane, going to Europe, and seeing a beautiful alien baby. I don't think he could be that deluded and that coherent....So I dunno...I don't think people that delusional can sustain the lies as coherently as Greer for this long. Then again, since his field is riddled with morons who think he's a "warrior" and other delusional types, maybe I'm giving him too much credit.

Intriguing.

If we (the Paracast community) determined Greer was suffering from some mental defect --- and not a literal con-man --- would that change anything? Would we feel obligated to treat him differently?

And if he is just a run-of-the-mill con-man?

You know, come to think of it (in my opinion), I don't think I would want him on the show either way. I wouldn't want him to have the platform.

I've already made up my mind about Greer. He's never getting anything from me.

A good portion of the time we are just not going to know whether someone is the real deal or not. We can't automatically reject everybody simply because their story is bizarre. But once we decide one way or the other (crook/real deal/ill) I think we are obligated to act accordingly. In my opinion, Greer should be ignored.

As an aside, I will add that I had the "joy" of living with someone for fourteen months who made outrageous claims regularly. Af first, I believed them. When I started to see that they just weren't true I questioned her. The response? Outrageous explanations. And so it went. Finally, the relationship culminated in a 1:00am visit from a police detective and a long night down at the station. Someone had lied to the wrong person --- in writing.

That was the end of that relationship, although it took a long time to get untangled. I think this individual *believed* every lie she told; she simply could not differentiate between what she had fantasized about and what had really happened. Yet, she was able to study, keep a job, get good grades, have lots of friends.... I learned that you just can't look at a person and tell whether they're telling the truth.

As a dear and trustworthy(!) friend later advised me, when it comes to matters that are important to us we must "trust but verify".

 

[TClaeys]

Well, guess what - I'm happy and willing to get into a slugfest with the charlatans.

I feel like I'm back in my youth - watching a bunch of kids beating up on one kid, everyone standing around and watching the fight, not lifting a finger, and me, jumping into the fray, grabbing the bullies by the neck and tossing them off the one kid under the pile.

I let out some pent-up aggression on that car crash of an episode, and I don't regret it a bit. Y'all feel that Greer is was "the winner"? Lovely. Like it means anything to the big picture.

At least I come by it honestly.

dB

David,

Please understand that I hold you in very high regard. And I'd like to thank you for your undying effort to promote truth and bury BS. You and your experiences really intrigue me because you seem to have everything to lose and nothing to gain. Except some truth on these matters. And I honestly think that this is why you do the show. I understood this very early in the shows production. And it was refreshing to hear somebody FINALLY challenge these claims made by these people. This is why I listen.

But if you remember back you've been hoodwinked at times as well. It is quite difficult to wade through this murky shitty water and try and find anything worthwhile. It is such a tangled knarled mess of lies, hoaxes, BS, and hopefully a glimmer of truth.

I certainly don't think that Greer "won" any damn thing. But I was just surprised at what I heard and puzzled at some of it. I don't know if anyone jumped your ass about Morton. Its just a fucked up field and easy to become misled. I guess sometimes you need to get a good dose of "Haa, gotcha you stupid dumbass fool" before you realize what the hell is going on. That has happenned to me before and I'll admit it.

I knew I would have wished that I hadn't even commented. But you do get it honestly David and I wouldn't have it any other way. At least you call it how you see it. In the meantime I can only continue my own Battan death march through this ridiculous trial and error (mostly error) ridden field.

And you're right, Greers answer to the release of video and pics regarding CSETI was, without listening again, non-sensical. I can't really remember what he even said. Something about misuse of these photos. I didn't really get it.

 

[valiens]

fitzbew88, that's true and there are degrees of delusion and sometimes it's hard to detect beyond thinking someone is somehow "off." But Greer--whether he's lying on purpose or compulsively--seems clearcut to me. I mean, he IS lying no matter what the origin and because he's asking for money (whether he profits in cash or in fame or whatever it is he wants) he needs to be held accountable.

How do we know he's lying for sure? Because there is zero authentic emotional attachment to any of his life experiences. The first two chapters of his book are available to read for free online. Go for it. You'll see what I mean.

At the X-Conference he made it seem as though he was up close and personal with an alien baby that he's got footage of. Now it's a European agency that asked him in to consult. Consult over what? -- But never mind. Wrong question, because it never happened.

All of his claims involve people in high places who are "friends" and colleagues" who he can't name. The one he did name--the Clinton adviser--says their meeting went nothing like how he describes.

By the way, listen back to Greer's first Paracast interview where he calls the adviser by his first name but that adviser calls him "Dr. Greer." Gosh, he sure does command respect from the oval office!

No, none of this rings true because it isn't true. I'd love to paint a picture of the man based on his childhood abuse and various forms of....oh let's saaaay repression... except what he says about even that is so outlandish I can't trust it. (He went to see "Mommy Dearest" in the theater with his sister and exclaimed aloud how he wished he'd had a good day like those abused kids in the flick had? Because his life was just that much rougher? Really? Of course that never happened.)

Anyone who believes Greer, just try this simple test. Write an honest story about yourself at eighteen years old.. See how many times you say you were "pure of heart." I'm guessing none. You don't fancy yourselves messianic.

It smells like rubbish. it is rubbish. I don't need to see where his money is going for that. I'd love to see his medical history, though. Love to see evidence of that government-given cancer he fought off using the powers of Greer.

Now if he's mentally ill vs. just a con man, should he be treated differently? I like your idea of ignoring him. I'd say "he needs to get help," but you can't force someone like that to get help--so ignoring him works.

 

[fitzbew88]

fitzbew88, that's true and there are degrees of delusion and sometimes it's hard to detect beyond thinking someone is somehow "off." But Greer--whether he's lying on purpose or compulsively--seems clearcut to me. I mean, he IS lying no matter what the origin and because he's asking for money (whether he profits in cash or in fame or whatever it is he wants) he needs to be held accountable.

I agree with you about the deception --- and I long ago made up my mind about him and the nature of this deception: not mental illness. And if that is correct, then I agree that he should be held accountable.

I'm not so sure about the Paracast taking the role of "enforcer". That is really the only thing I care about --- what our (the Paracast community) role should be in this. Does the show become stronger by taking direct aim at situations like this? Or does it become stronger by ignoring situations like this?

All I am really concerned with is the show, and how it makes me feel when I listen to it. Is it possible for the show to stay "above" the greerelian level of Ufoolery?

Now if he's mentally ill vs. just a con man, should he be treated differently? I like your idea of ignoring him. I'd say "he needs to get help," but you can't force someone like that to get help--so ignoring him works.

I'm with you 100%.

 

[ArizonaWill]

Fastwalker: "None of us can see into the psyche or soul of Steven Greer."

Then what was the rest of your post about?

My post was my opinion, my conjecture, and suggested possibilities based on my personal experience with a boss who was a pathological lyer (eventually, she was fired). You may have noticed I used the word "perhaps" before stating several possible explanations for Greer's behavior. I was trying to give my views without making dogmatic declarative statements, which have been made in other posts. Hell, I never met the man, how can I proclaim that he is a pathological lyer. Maybe he is a con man (this is hard for me to believe because emergency room doctors make very serious money, much more than this zero energy/alien schtick), or delusional, but how would I know without becoming a mole in his entourage? Sorry, I have a good job. But I'm considered pretty good looking by LA standards (blush) and it would be fascinating to see if I could seduce the good doctor. While his sexuality has NOTHING to do with this, I'm still curious. Sometimes you learn the most about someone in pillow talk.

Seems to me though that much of what I posted you seemed to agree with in later posts, right?

 

[sk4p]

Just count me as another vote in support of Our Hosts & Jeremy. Greer is really hard to listen to. And yeah, it makes for an unpleasant listen when there's such obvious (and barely-contained -- you guys are troopers) distaste for the guest (who richly deserves it).

But there is a need for it. In one of my favorite movies (The Ten Commandments, of all things) Rameses says of Moses "Let him rave on, that men shall know him mad." That's the deal with people like Greer. Give them one bullet for their own foot and enough rope to hang themselves, and then a wrapup like this week's to say "See, class, that's a bad UFOlogist, to be contrasted with Dolan and Maccabee and Vallee."

Counterexamples can be just as valuable, pedagogically, as examples. And if it results in modern reality-show FOX-not-news style entertainment, eh, what the hell, why not.

I wouldn't enjoy the Paracast if all episodes were like this, but they're not. Dolan, Greenfield, Steiger, Vallee, etc. make it well worth the occasional opposite.

 

[David Biedny]

sk4p,

Thank you for getting it.

Our best shows are ahead of us. We reserve the right for the occasional clusterfuck - I think we earn the right. But I'm obviously biased.

dB

 

[valiens]

Fastwalker, I'm just giving you grief.

But I do disagree with this: "...his sexuality has NOTHING to do with this...."

I actually think that's the root of the problem. I mean sure I don't know him and I have no proof of this other than observing him and believing that his childhood probably was crap and he left home as a teen. Complete speculation here but it makes sense to me that he is repressing his homosexuality and learned to do that growing up with abusive, homophobic parents in abusive, homophobic North Carolina. He learned to change his identity, I'm sure he had to lie and cheat and steal to survive and it's not too much of a stretch to believe the dude has superiority issues.

He's smart and self-made. There endeth his good attribute, IMO.

 

[CapnG]

So far, no one has mentioned the fact that he handily avoided directly answering the question of WHY he won't let folks who attend his picnics release their photos of mosquitos and airplanes.

That's not entirely true, David. Didn't he throw out some bullshit about people making money off of photos taken during one of the early CSETI expeditions? In other words, money he DIDN'T make? I think there's your answer right there...

 

[Aaron LeClair]

If Greer is THAT delusional about what he is spewing then how come he still has his medical licence?

He is obviously a greedy con that thinks nothing about ripping people off. For the people that think that if people are stupid enough to believe his crap then they deserve to be ripped off is not OK with me.

Some people for whatever reason are just more trusting and gullable, maybe less educated or intelligent than others. Think about some of the elderly that can be easy targets for con artists. Also new people in the field may have there own experiences and want the space brother aspect to be true. Vultures just love these people.

He may still have his drivers license too. Are you saying making claims about levitation and photographing insects but calling them et craft isn't deluded? By deluded I mean he doesn't have a concern with the truth about reality, or is so consumed by blinding bias and belief as to not notice more down to Earth notions, or pay little regard to them for the purpose of egotistical gain. I do not claim Greer is clinically insane. I gave the impression he is a religious kind of fanatic that is deluded, and I think I may have mentioned a con artist as well. Since con artists have little concern for the truth of reality, but gains of the ego and pocket. To what degree Greer is consciously making cons for the sole purpose of financial gain is hard for me to conclude.

He may be just a greedy con. But I'm still open to him being a deluded one too. Guess in the end it doesn't matter much. The end result is similar enough that I am willing to withdraw splitting hairs on it for awhile.

 

[ArizonaWill]

Fastwalker, I'm just giving you grief.

But I do disagree with this: "...his sexuality has NOTHING to do with this...."

I actually think that's the root of the problem. I mean sure I don't know him and I have no proof of this other than observing him and believing that his childhood probably was crap and he left home as a teen. Complete speculation here but it makes sense to me that he is repressing his homosexuality and learned to do that growing up with abusive, homophobic parents in abusive, homophobic North Carolina. He learned to change his identity, I'm sure he had to lie and cheat and steal to survive and it's not too much of a stretch to believe the dude has superiority issues.

He's smart and self-made. There endeth his good attribute, IMO.

Well, he sets off my gaydar. OK, big confession: I'm bi-sexual. I have always found handsome men sexually attractive as well as beautiful women. To me it is natural, while the rest of the USA in large part is hysterical about such matters. My girl friend knows, and thinks it is really hot (she seems to have these fantasies of me with another hot man while she watches.....she's as bad as the guys who like to watch 2 women smooch). For whatever reason (the body?) I find Greer hot, and perhaps the personality adds to that because in contrast to the buff body his personality is so unappealing. But sexual attraction is pretty strange. Perhaps Paracast could finance my involvement on one of those romantic wilderness treks to signal the aliens. I am sure I could manuever the good doctor so we'd be alone, perhaps trip him discreetly and then land on top of him, waiting to see what happens. Of course, maybe that's another reason for his nondisclosure agreement? Who knows what really goes on during those nocturnal sojourns out in the dark?

Seriously though, Jeremy, I don't see the direct connection between possibily being a closeted homosexual and being a Space Brothers fanatic or a pathological lyer. If there was a direct connection, there would be thousands of Dr. Greers everywhere. Most of the guys who hit on me at the fitness club are married, by the way, and just need "something different". 8) This poor society is so full of shit that people can't just be what/who they are. 100 years later and the Victorians are still haunting us.

 

[Ally]

Packrat my point was if an ER Doctor is deluded in the sence of not being able interpret reality as defined by his/her culture, then he would IMO have big professional problems.

As far as we (general public) know that is not the case. If a Dr is mentally ill he should not be practicing either. It is possible that he deluded and/or mentally ill but I highly doubt it.

 

[Artyom]

I eagerly await the shows appearance iTunes.

I download the show from iTunes since Dec, 2006, no way I can listen to it live buy my iPod is the place to keep the show with me everywhere

 

[Aaron LeClair]

Packrat my point was if an ER Doctor is deluded in the sence of not being able interpret reality as defined by his/her culture, then he would IMO have big professional problems.

And he being a con artist wouldn't give him prof. problems?

I do not know what the board of health or whatever is or isn't aware of when it comes to Greer. But your argument that he would get his license taken away could be asserted against he being a con artist just as you are using it to suggest he isn't deluded. They'll be ok with him cheating people out of money and let him keep his license? If you think they'd revoke his license for wacky deluded beliefs, I think it should be considered they'd take away his license for fraud.

 

[Rocketsauce]

I just listened to the episode and read that article that David posted.

I thought the show went well and I didn't think David was too hard on the guy, in fact I wish they had asked the really tough questions from the very start instead of having to hear the typical Greerian riff. But interviews are an art and I think gradually increasing the heat is pretty standard. I think Greer actually came off pretty well if you had never heard him before. He really does a good job of explaining away any holes you might find in his methods or beliefs, I think he should be a politician.

The fact is he has no physical proof to back any of his outreagous claims and I think that article David posted really paints a bigger picture for those of us who just follow him from affar.

I'm not totally convinced that everything Greer says is bogus, I think he may have had contact experiences and he obviously knows some high level military people based on DP. But I think everything he says is worth questioning and realizing it could be totally bogus.

Other than demonstrating really incredible skills as a networker and facilitator in getting people to testify, he has yet to fullfill any of the outreagous promises he's made. So by that rationale I think you could say he is a massive exagerator if not a liar.

How many times has he said he's just 2 years away from a free energy device? I think he's said it in every interview for the last 8 years. David's question about what engineers are on this project is totally valid I think. It's tempting to encourage David to get his wealthy friend to have a sit down with Greer to get more insider info to see if in fact he is totally full of shit, but that's probably a big waste of time and effort.

Based on the Moth pictures and the Owl noise in the article, it's safe to say Greer's ability to jump to conclusions is on another level.

 

[valiens]

"And he being a con artist wouldn't give him prof. problems?"

They'd have to prove he's a con artist. The extravagant claims, whether real or not, don't give him professional problems. One would think just making these claims might. But then again fraud and the medical community have always gone hand-in-hand.

snake oil - a slang term for any one of a multitude of substances or mixtures sold by a traveling medicine show for which extravagant curative and restorative claims were made.