Entheogens

[Nathaniel]

What is the Paracast's general consensus on entheogens such as DMT, psilocybin, cannabis and ayahuasca?

To me, if researched beforehand and approached in the correct manner they can be invaluable teachers for those seeking to explore the mysteries of consciousness and the nature of reality.

I couldn't decide which Terrence Mckenna quote to end my post with so here, have 73 of them.

73 Mindblowing Terence McKenna QuotesEndAllDisease.com

 

[Charlie Prime]

I doubt there is a consensus.

Keep in my when reading McKenna that he was controlled by Wall Street's government intel agencies. That fact does not negate his work, but it does demand caution.

 

[manxman]

What is the Paracast's general consensus on entheogens such as DMT, psilocybin, cannabis and ayahuasca?

well for me, it's all about price.

 

[Nathaniel]

I doubt there is a consensus.

Yeah, maybe consensus was the wrong choice of word.

Keep in my when reading McKenna that he was controlled by Wall Street's government intel agencies. That fact does not negate his work, but it does demand caution.

Is this really a fact?

 

[Charlie Prime]

"Facts" are difficult to come by when investigating the Machiavellian machinations of government intel agencies.

Most of the 196o's and early 70's alternative thinkers were under various degrees of government supervision. The purpose was "culture creation" programs, mostly the "Pagan Revival" which was mostly designed to diffuse opposition to the war in Vietnam by encouraging potential dissidents to get lost in esoteric endeavors rather than engaging in practical political action.

I don't remember the details, but basically the Feds got McKenna on a trumped-up minor law violation and turned him.

I know it sounds insane, but it is necessary to understand the bigger picture of weaponized anthropology programs over the last hundred years to see how it works, and why they do it.

That being said, I believe entheogens are like any other tool; they can be used for good or ill. Like an 18 wheeler or martial arts or a frying pan, they can be extremely dangerous if used without proper guidance and education.

 

[Rizla]

There's a lot to be said about McKenna, pro and con, but I've never heard this story before. Weaponized anthro deserves its own thread. I actually got a degree in anth years ago and the field has changed totally in 20 years. Not to mention the relationship with USAID! Mein Gott, what a mess.

Entheogens are so profound and important that it's hard to put "consensus" in a sentence with them. I agree with Mr. Prime that they are tools that should be used respectfully and cautiously, they're sacred, really. I think Leary's idea of "turning on" every 18 year old on earth was a major, stupid mistake. Aldous Huxley died too early.

One of my last talks with Moseley had to do with Altered States (entheogen-related or otherwise --- they're hard wired in the brain, basically) being the key to a lot of UFO mysteries, must dig up my notes on that one.

Please, any info on McKenna's bust and getting "turned" would be super appreciated. I know the literature pretty well and never heard this. Cheers.

 

[Charlie Prime]

The "Houseboat Summit" where they developed the "Tune In" slogan is a story in itself.

I've been following Jan Irvin's work on this for several years. I met him in Los Angeles a couple of years ago and we talked for three hours. He's solid, a serious researcher. Online his personality is abrasive, but in person he is a super-nice, honest, good guy. Here is his page on McKenna's confession to a private group:

NEW MKULTRA DISCOVERY: Terence McKenna admited that he was a "deep background" and "PR" agent (CIA or FBI). - Gnostic Media

And certainly when I reached La Chorerra in 1971 I had a price on my head by the FBI, I was running out of money, I was at the end of my rope. And then THEY recruited me and said, “you know, with a mouth like yours there’s a place for you in our organization”. And I’ve worked in deep background positions about which the less said the better. And then about 15 years ago they shifted me into public relations and I’ve been there to the present.

Audio clip from the private talk, 2 minutes (I think at the CIA-soaked Esalen Institute or Standford Research Institute, I don't remember which): http://www.gnosticmedia.com/audio/TerenceMcKenna_admits_he_was_agent.mp3

 

[Nathaniel]

I have to admit this whole Agent Mckenna thing seems to be - to me at least - nothing more than a theory.

Interesting though.

The Psychedelicist: Debunking The "Agent McKenna" Theory

 

[boomerang]

Just Wikied "entheogen" for a more precise definition. The first listed is the Colorado River toad.

 

[Rizla]

TM was such a brilliant storyteller/bullsh*tter (which he often admitted), that it's hard for me to know what to make of that quote. It is certainly possible, but I also think that Entheogens are so uncontrollable that any spook agency would have a tough time making anything but a mess out of any planned conspiracy with TM as a spokesman.

 

[Burnt State]

If hallucinogens, were not so poorly abused in society, first by its initial demonization in America, and then by Timothy O's bizarre marketing and promotional event that let it loose without any reverence, we could have possibly escaped such banalities as consumerism and pop music. If only we had turned into a nation of seekers, meditators and truth dwellers, it could have all been so different, with much finer priorities like gardening, poetry and mountain climbing. But no, that good ole Puritanism had to stick its dirty claws into how people could have chosen to expand their consciousness. Now we're stuck with reality tv, celebrities, excessive white collar crime, fast food and the overt mass marketing of stupidity and plastic to the masses. A proper dose of brain tonic could have rinsed all that bs out of our collective psyche. Mad, sad days, man.

 

[Rizla]

Well put! But don't let the mass consciousness get you down! Your post just cheered me up after reading page after page of ad hominem attacks via a link above! It's incredible how much crap people toss at each other behind avatars on the net. Also, is it possible for anyone nowadays to be called an intelligence agent after they're conveniently dead? The disappearance of simple manners was getting me down, leaving me with little hope for Western Civ in general. Namasté, Mr. State.

 

[Burnt State]

Namasté, brother. One day we'll be dead.

But on other days we can still smile at trees, and be good to the people we meet along the way, convince them that tv is rotting their brains, play music together, read, walk on beaches, talk softly and turn them on to something stronger than advertising.

 

[Stagger Lee]

There's a lot to be said about McKenna, pro and con, but I've never heard this story before. Weaponized anthro deserves its own thread. I actually got a degree in anth years ago and the field has changed totally in 20 years. Not to mention the relationship with USAID! Mein Gott, what a mess.

Entheogens are so profound and important that it's hard to put "consensus" in a sentence with them. I agree with Mr. Prime that they are tools that should be used respectfully and cautiously, they're sacred, really. I think Leary's idea of "turning on" every 18 year old on earth was a major, stupid mistake. Aldous Huxley died too early.

One of my last talks with Moseley had to do with Altered States (entheogen-related or otherwise --- they're hard wired in the brain, basically) being the key to a lot of UFO mysteries, must dig up my notes on that one.

Please, any info on McKenna's bust and getting "turned" would be super appreciated. I know the literature pretty well and never heard this. Cheers.

I agree about Leary. In the end, his efforts only served to help demonize and outlaw psychedelics.

 

[Stagger Lee]

If hallucinogens, were not so poorly abused in society, first by its initial demonization in America, and then by Timothy O's bizarre marketing and promotional event that let it loose without any reverence, we could have possibly escaped such banalities as consumerism and pop music. If only we had turned into a nation of seekers, meditators and truth dwellers, it could have all been so different, with much finer priorities like gardening, poetry and mountain climbing. But no, that good ole Puritanism had to stick its dirty claws into how people could have chosen to expand their consciousness. Now we're stuck with reality tv, celebrities, excessive white collar crime, fast food and the overt mass marketing of stupidity and plastic to the masses. A proper dose of brain tonic could have rinsed all that bs out of our collective psyche. Mad, sad days, man.

Very well said Bstate. You summed up in one paragraph.. exactly how I felt during my late teens through my 20's. Now at 40 yrs old, busy with work and family, it's easy to forget and get somewhat caught up. Thanks for the post.

 

[Charlie Prime]

I have to admit this whole Agent Mckenna thing seems to be - to me at least - nothing more than a theory.

Taken out of context, dismissives like your link might seem plausible. When you look at the larger picture of interagency memos, the LSD distribution program, the pop culture funding, and you read the philosophical works of Aldous Huxley, Gordon Wasson, and the work of Caroll Quigley, you see what they are trying to accomplish.

 

[trainedobserver]

The brain is designed (by a process that literally took millions of years to complete) to operate within a specific set of parameters under exacting conditions to interpret the environment in the perfect way that promotes the survivability of the organism as a whole. Mucking about with the natural chemistry of the brain in an attempt to expand your consciousness or to gain a "better" or alternative perspective on reality is fundamentally flawed and doomed to failure.

Drugs make things "different" and not "better." Granted sometimes different is better for a brief amount of time, but in the long run it just becomes "the same" unless there is a great deal of discipline and forethought, two things which drug use does not promote. Also, taking unregulated and untested substances into your body is highly dangerous for the obvious reasons.

Detuning a radio or television doesn't uncover new layers of underlying order, it just brings in chaos. Similarly, altering the function of a healthy brain, pushing it out of its normal operating specifications, invites chaos, and not peace, order, or insight into fundamental reality.

It has been my personal experience that the search is not aided by the pursuit of drugs or spiritual leaders. No, we must all met the Buddha in the road and kill him ourselves. The answer lies within and not without. The path for most does involve discovering this for yourself through painful trial and error. In the end these truths cannot be communicated, only experienced on a individual basis.

 

[Wade]

As for myself, when I first joined the paracast I prattled on and on about DMT use as an agent for achieving higher consciousness or even meeting up with a machine elf and i downloaded everyhting I could find on the subject including a bunch of docs from scribd on how to make your own. I never did attempt that nor did I join the Santo Diame.... The thought did cross my mind...or go on Ayahuasca tour.

I've since changed my feelings, even though I have only started to dabble in it, my understanding is that simple TM or kundalini yoga is also an effective way to achieve these states... Although not as vivid I'm led to understand. But that's ok by me. It's not that I have anything against hallucenogens but it now seems to be a bit of a cheat. Perhaps I am wrong but if one can percieve such things via chemicals perhaps they are just as capable as doing it "natually" without exposing yourself to any other risks. I, for one have no desire to toss my cookies or lose control of my bm in front of a bunch of strangers. Although they probably wouldn't even notice.

 

[Nathaniel]

Mucking about with the natural chemistry of the brain in an attempt to expand your consciousness or to gain a "better" or alternative perspective on reality is fundamentally flawed and doomed to failure.

That doesn't seem to be the case for the countless people who have had their entire lives changed (for the better) thanks to intensely profound experiences with these substances, especially DMT, Ayahuasca and Psilocybin.

...taking unregulated and untested substances into your body is highly dangerous for the obvious reasons.

I agree with that statement wholeheartedly but the substances I'm referring to are completely natural, non-addictive, non-lethal, have medicinal uses and have been used in various cultures for thousands of years. This doesn't mean I think people should just go out and try them without educating themselves first.

...altering the function of a healthy brain, pushing it out of its normal operating specifications, invites chaos, and not peace, order, or insight into fundamental reality.

“I'm glad mushrooms are against the law, because I took them one time, and you know what happened to me? I laid in a field of green grass for four hours going, "My God! I love everything." Yeah, now if that isn't a hazard to our country … how are we gonna justify arms dealing when we realize that we're all one?”

- Bill Hicks

It has been my personal experience that the search is not aided by the pursuit of drugs or spiritual leaders.

I believe that some of these psychedelic tools can actually teach us how to access much deeper levels of consciousness, after which the 'teacher' is no longer needed. One can simply attain the same level of consciousness alone, using meditation, for example. Cannabis is a prime example of this.

I agree with you about pursuing spiritual leaders. I seek truth and I believe the truth lies within. I don't believe any figure should be worshipped or placed 'above' anyone else.

Out of curiosity, have you ever had any psychedelic experiences?

 

[trainedobserver]

I believe that some of these psychedelic tools can actually teach us how to access much deeper levels of consciousness, after which the 'teacher' is no longer needed. One can simply attain the same level of consciousness alone, using meditation, for example. Cannabis is a prime example of this.

I think you're fooling yourself. You may or may not realize that one day depending on your luck and how many brain cells you kill along the way.

Out of curiosity, have you ever had any psychedelic experiences?

Of course I have. Do you think if I'd just do some mind blowing drugs I'd see the light or something? Please. For every person you think has had their lives broadened and their consciousness expanded there are a handful that have their lives, the lives of their families, and their futures destroyed. I hope that doesn't happen to you.