Goodbye XP

[Gene Steinberg]

The high-price perception is a bit of an illusion. When you actually compare the hardware, the components and the software bundle, you'll find the Mac is very competitive in its price ranges, doing better at the high end. The Mac Pro workstation, for example, is cheaper than the PC competition, even if home built.

But Apple doesn't play in the cheap PC space. There are no profits there, and a lot of the hardware is sheer junk. But there is no real Apple tax, other than the fact that there are product categories the company won't touch. Let the other companies kill themselves trying to fight it out in those arenas. But consider how the PC market has contracted, and even formerly leading players, such as Dell, have suffered. Did the race to the bottom really help? And if you buy disposable junk that you have to replace in a couple of years, just how much have you really saved?

 

[Ezechiel]

I've always bought from small computer shops for custom builds and avoided the bestbuys,Costco and Dells. One of my workstations is a rock solid XP running for over a decade.

But then again, you need to do your homework to build a solid consistent machine... And that takes time. Which you can save with an apple product.

 

[Charlie Prime]

Well, not the use of Macs in the business world, or sales figures, or the fact that the growth of the Mac, while not what it was, has exceeded the rate in the PC world for a number of years.

Microsoft is great for military and government subsidized applications, suckling at the government teat.

Apple is great for certain small, niche markets.

However, the business world actually runs on Linux. It runs air traffic control, your bank, your university, and your internet. It's incredible how important it is.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Here's a survey of Web servers that paints an illuminating picture:

December 2013 Web Server Survey | Netcraft

ATM machines in the U.S. mostly use Windows — Windows XP in fact (95% according to a recent USA Today article). I wonder what's going to happen after Microsoft drops support in April.

As to small niche markets using Macs: Yes like music, video, education. Niche.

This survey is two years old, but it shows surprising growth of Apple products in the enterprise (iPad usage is much higher now):

46% Enterprise Firms Use Macs, 26% Support iPad

And over 90% of Fortune 500 companies have deployed iPhones and iPads. One big reason is a "bring your own device" philosophy, which allows employees to use their own gear under reasonable controls.

 

[Charlie Prime]

Don't get Blue Gene.

The guy working on this little Linux box probably has an iPhone in his pocket.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

And that means — what? It simply confirms what I told you.

 

[Charlie Prime]

I was agreeing with you. Apple is great for certain small, niche markets like phones, Audio/Visual work, and upscale luxury consumer products, but when real horsepower and mission-critical reliability is needed in the business world, the choice is Linux.

This is why Linux is used by the U.S. Defense Dept., governments in Spain & France, the Federal Aviation Administration, banks, the U.S. Postal Service, U.S. Federal Courts, German Universities, Novell, Google, IBM, Toyota, Panasonic, Cisco, Amazon, the New York Stock Exchange, and CERN.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

You still suffer from the delusion that Macs aren't widely used in the business world. Not to the extent of Windows, but in increasing numbers. When it comes to "real horsepower," the Mac Pro is as fast or faster than even custom-built PC workstations and costs less. The Mac Pro is not a hobbyist or electronic music tool; it's for serious content creators and for tasks that require powerful, multicore processors and workstation-class graphics. What you don't know about this subject can fill volumes.

When it comes to Linux, it has its place, particularly when it comes to servers. This site is run on Linux (CentOS). But Linux hasn't done well on regular PC-style computers where the end user runs regular apps, such as Word, etc. That's where Linux has a minuscule share of the market; it hasn't made an impact on the desktop space. You need define what sort of computers you're referring to.

 

[Charlie Prime]

You still suffer from the delusion that Macs aren't widely used in the business world.

Could you please point to where I said that?

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Your emphasis that it's a basically a high-end consumer machine except for niche markets (as if education is niche), an old Mac fiction you have repeated over and over and over again. Apple has been showing for the past 30 years that it's possible to build a consumer friendly computing device that is perfectly suited for business use.

It doesn't mean Macs are suited for all business purposes, but a lot of that is that certain vertical apps exist on the Windows platform and aren't available on the Mac. But you can still run Windows on a Mac with great performance.

 

[stonehart]

it's for serious content creators and for tasks that require powerful, multicore processors and workstation-class graphics.

And there is the truth and why we use mac in live shows. It has to be quick and handle one hell of a lot of live true analog audio, video, and lighting sync at real time speeds no glitch and every time.
I like PC and use them for day to day tasks but I will not use them for show/production critical systems as mac out performs them every single time. Just out of interest sake the sound desk/s we use run Linux as their OS and the only Windows based one I have used was as stable as Charlie Manson.. go figure.

 

[Jimi H.]

That's preposterous. You can do great music on any Mac, and a fully-outfitted iMac is actually a great professional tool for those for whom a Mac Pro is overkill. Apple's music creation app, Logic Pro X, at $199.99, runs even on a $599 Mac mini with credible performance.

The Mac Pro's advantage is strictly for high-end content creators, such as those needing to run multiple 4K video streams with many filters active without dropping frames. They aren't for "kids into electronic music." You are sadly misinformed.

Music production is no longer just a MAC-thing. Check out the biggest music production site around, Gearslutz, it seems more people are using PCs now. A quick google gave me this poll:
Mac Vs. PC and Why? - Gearslutz.com

These days, I advise people to pick the software they like the best, and go from there. Forget the MAC/PC-thing.

I use a PC, mostly for two reasons:
1) I like the OS better. E.g. extensive right-mouse button functionality and simpler filehandling.
2) I build my own PCs of hi quality components for a much better price for equal performance than if I went and bought one of Apple's ready-made systems. And if I bought Apple, I'd probably still have to tweak components for my personal use, making it even more expensive.
So many times I've heard MAC users gripe about missing this or that, or having to upgrade one thing or another. I much prefer planning and building my own machine from the get-go, for a better price. And since modern MACs are intel machines anyway, the idea that MACs are by definition better quality is just wrong.

Btw, I've happily performed live including tracks from a PC, my PCs don't crash

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Your Mac comments are curiously but seriously wrong.

Missing what? Upgrading what? The reverse is true. Macs come out of the box ready for work. You don't tweak components. You clearly do not understand how Macs are designed and why.

Macs also have extensive right-mouse button functionality, and the question of file handling is one of preference. I find it easier on the Mac.

That poll you present is just somebody's message board, and it's no more or less credible than any message board — even this one.

But when you say PCs don't crash, you are clearly living in an alternate universe.

 

[Jimi H.]

Your Mac comments are curiously but seriously wrong.

I use a Macbook at work, many of my friends use Macs, I've done film production on a Mac, I know the OS.

Missing what? Upgrading what? The reverse is true. Macs come out of the box ready for work. You don't tweak components. You clearly do not understand how Macs are designed and why.

See, this is the difference between a Mac fanboy and a PC user. A Mac fanboy thinks that the user should adapt to the system, instead of building the system for the user.

Macs also have extensive right-mouse button functionality,

Even when you use activate right mouse-click functionality, it's not as smartly implemented as on a PC. And besides the OS itself, almost all PC software exploits right mouse-button functionality, many programs for Mac don't.

and the question of file handling is one of preference. I find it easier on the Mac.

Here we agree, it's a matter of preferrence, and habit. This is where the Mac/PC discussion should start and end.

That poll you present is just somebody's message board, and it's no more or less credible than any message board — even this one.

That's not a very enlightened comment Gene, you'll find many heavies from the industry on Gearslutz. Like I said, it was a quick google, but I can tell you it's a clear pattern that more and more producers are using PCs. DAW benchmarks have also shown that PCs outperform Macs in many instances, it depends on the DAW and the setup. Here's a good site:
DAW Bench : DAW Performance Benchmarking

But when you say PCs don't crash, you are clearly living in an alternate universe.

If you say Macs don't crash, so are you. But I can't remember when my home-built PC last crashed.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

The Mac "fanboy" stuff is too silly to be worth a comment.

When it comes to benchmarks, I'll go by the professional magazines that review such products.

I see good right-click functionality in most of the Mac apps I use. Your mileage may vary.

Finally, I didn't say Macs didn't crash. But when you say your PC doesn't crash, you have a very, very rare PC. I've never encountered one that didn't crash, and crash for more often than a Mac.

 

[Jimi H.]

When it comes to benchmarks, I'll go by the professional magazines that review such products.

Good for you, but you won't find better benchmarks than on that site, it's a big and ambitions project that has been running over several iterations of the different OSs and DAWs.

I'm no greenhorn in music production, Gene, trust me.

Finally, I didn't say Macs didn't crash. But when you say your PC doesn't crash, you have a very, very rare PC. I've never encountered one that didn't crash, and crash for more often than a Mac.

What crashes a PC is typically user error of some form or another. By user error I include stuff like using old or 3rd party drivers. My PC does not crash on me, I cant remember when it happended last, and I frequently utilize its resources to its limit.

But Macs are strictly controlled machines from the get-go, while PCs allow users to mess it up well and good. PCs should be set up with the same consideration with which Macs are set up from the factory. That's what goes wrong in many consumer PCs which are typically a hodge-podge of components and ready-to-buy bloatware installed for no reason whatsoever.

So, yes, if you are not PC-savvy, a Mac has a better chance of maintaining integrity, software-wise, because it's much more controlled from the factory, software-updates must be approved and so forth.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

There's a lot to be set for maintaining integrity and providing customers with a more reliable, predictable experience so they can do work and not spend their days fiddling with systems to make them better or functional. Some of us have better things to do.

When it comes to customizations, OS X's Terminal can put you into an environment where you have free reign to fiddle with the Unix underbelly of the OS and do all the damage you want. There are also many third party utilities that will manipulate the look and feel of OS X and customize it way beyond what Apple officially offers. To assume the OS is locked down is only partly true. It's locked down where it counts for security.

As to "approving" software updates. If an app is not in the Mac App Store, it is approved by the publisher, not Apple, and thus you have the same potential chaos as in other platforms.

That being said, on this week's episode of my tech radio show, I'll feature someone, a tech writer, who gave up Office for Windows after a standard Microsoft installation delivered chaos. That's not atypical for Microsoft.

 

[Jeff Davis]

Correct all serious studio work is done on Mac running Pro-Tools.. fact.
Mac = Audio production in a very big way and if you have never used one for audio work, then people you are missing out as they are easy and stable to use.

ROTLMAO!!!! Not hardly. Check out KVR for a little reality check. Maybe 20 years ago, but not now. No way.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

This is one of the real problems with the XP situation:

As XP nears its own demise, ATMs face potential crisis | ZDNet

Watch out, though. It may crash some browsers.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

And one more, for those who say Macs aren't suitable for business use:

45% of businesses offer Macs to employees, 77% find Apple more reliable - survey