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How do YOU define consciousness?

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Please explain your superior views and hypothesis on consciousness Ufology, so that all can benefit from such an enlightening experience. If you truly feel that consciousness is responsible for our sentient experiences as human beings as your posted views imply, and we both KNOW that Bell's theorem does in FACT reinforce the REALITY of the mind/matter connection, then I am certain you must have some type of reasonable counter. So far I haven't seen any, but I am just sure you must have one. Don't you?
Consciousness, awareness, and sentience are all synonymous You'll need to be more specific about what exactly you want explained. As for Bell's Theorem, we've already been through that, and nowhere have I said that there's no connection between mind and matter. The issue is the kind of connection, specifically the mistaken belief that consciousness itself is responsible for the wave collapse in experiments like the double slit.
 
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Consciousness, awareness, and sentience are all synonymous You'll need to be more specific about what exactly you want explained. As for Bell's Theorem, we've already been through that, and nowhere have I said that there's no connection between mind and matter. The issue is the kind of connection, specifically the mistaken belief that consciousness itself is responsible for the wave collapse in experiments like the double slit.

This is EXACTLY what Bell's theorem reinforces. You may CHOOSE to disregard, and BELIEVE as much is not the case, but that IS the absolute fact concerning Bell's theorem and is fully and legitimately recognized as such within the TQP realm. I will accept your dismissal as a forfeit in our debate. Thank you for participating!
 
This is EXACTLY what Bell's theorem reinforces. You may CHOOSE to disregard, and BELIEVE as much is not the case, but that IS the absolute fact concerning Bell's theorem and is fully and legitimately recognized as such within the TQP realm. I will accept your dismissal as a forfeit in our debate. Thank you for participating!

The error in interpretation leading to your belief was explained, therefore it is you, not I, who is being dismissive.
 
Stating as much as you just did (oh, master interpreter) is akin to stating that the weather outside is clear and sunny when we are in the middle of a torrential downfall. You have offered ZERO. NOTHING of substance whatsoever, therefore, you most certainly have conceded to defeat. Thank you again.
 
You, of ALL people, turn to debunking instead of looking to the evidence. So sad...

The saddest thing is that 100% of what I have offered you is real and factual science. Not a stitch of woo...just reality. Hmmm.
 
You, of ALL people, turn to debunking instead of looking to the evidence. So sad... The saddest thing is that 100% of what I have offered you is real and factual science. Not a stitch of woo...just reality. Hmmm.
Yes me "of all people" has finally been swayed by the Dark Side of logic and reason.
 
Ah, the perfection that is Floyd. None other can fill the void when their musical signature I long for. Course the same can be said for Fu Manchu, but what the heck, I'm a music lover!

I really enjoy both Meddle and Atom Heart Mother when I am in just that right mood. Over the years I have become a little too commercially familiar with DSOTM. What a shame that FM radio basically went in the toilet post late 70s. It's certainly ruined many a classic tune for me, that's for sure. Darn shop community radio bs. Honestly Ufology, I have a fairly decent sound system in my car, and I still almost never listen to music in there. ANYTHING that demeans, or lessens, the music listening experience for me, I really don't care too much for. The distraction of having to pay attention to my driving does that to me frequently and as a result I'll just make a choice to enjoy the silence, or an occasional AM news broadcast. Sometimes I will punish myself however by critiquing my own stuff in the car. It's typically a fleeting experience. :p
 
Ah, the perfection that is Floyd. None other can fill the void when their musical signature I long for. Course the same can be said for Fu Manchu, but what the heck, I'm a music lover!

I really enjoy both Meddle and Atom Heart Mother when I am in just that right mood ...
Meddle was the first Floyd album I owned. I used to put that on and hypno-out on the living room couch to Echoes ( no blotter required ). I was there drifting beneath the surface among coral caves and ocean creatures while the albatross glided in the sky overhead. Also, if it weren't for our little debate, I wouldn't have run across that clip above either ( how cool is that - something informative came out of this after all ) :). It was the door man from the recording studio ... :cool:.
 
Meddle was the first Floyd album I owned. I used to put that on and hypno-out on the living room couch to Echoes ( no blotter required ). I was there drifting beneath the surface among coral caves and ocean creatures while the albatross glided in the sky overhead. Also, if it weren't for our little debate, I wouldn't have run across that clip above either ( how cool is that - something informative came out of this after all ) :). It was the door man from the recording studio ... :cool:.

I am very happy with our debate and came away knowing much more than when I began. Your esoteric Floyd knowledge contribution reminds me a similar incident wherein a man was delivering a pizza to the Steve Miller band that were recording in studio. Well, it just so happened that BTO were recording their BTO 2 LP in the same building, different engineer's studio. The Pizza delivery guy sticks his head in the door and says to Bachman that some boogie woogie piano would sound COOL in the song at a certain point. Turns out the pizza delivery guy is an accomplished piano player and Randy asks him to lay down what he hears in the tune and see what happens. The man, Norman Durkee, ends up recording his part into the song Takin' Care of Business in one take! The rest is Rock N Roll history yeilding what is without question one of their most famous and successful tunes ever. Durkee himself went on to become an extremely successful music director for prominant musicians and performers, such as Bette Midler and Barry Manilow, sad to say. ;)
 
Part of my issues with the term "paranormal" is that the term seems to denote nothing more than a relation between the observer and the phenomenon.
I just go with the common dictionary type definition, which usually states that paranormal phenomena are unable to be explained or understood in terms of scientific knowledge ( Encarta ). Presumably this means it's not something that can be subjected to the scientific method (e.g. a premonitory vision ). This is the reason why UFOs aren't a paranormal phenomenon. UFOs ( alien craft ) are material objects that could be subjected to the scientific method if we only had physical access to them. In contrast, the best we can do with precognition is create a database of predictions and compare them to real events, and possibly do some brain scans. But that's not the same as getting inside someone's head to observe what's really happening. That's an impossibility, and therefore by its nature is a paranormal phenomenon.
... Likewise for the Cartesian mind-body dualism (which is wrong), regarding human minds as something ontically different than the substance or "matter" of the world ...
I don't see how it's possible to eliminate all forms of dualism, including the basic concept behind Cartesian Dualism. Can you explain why you think it's wrong? Or is that just your opinion? If you're going to answer this. Please let's take it in small steps rather than posting huge walls of text or hours of videos. Basically, my view is that when one holds a particular image within their mind, no matter how closely one looks at a brain scan or the brain matter itself, all the way down to the atomic level if necessary, they will never be able to see that image. Yet the image exists, and therefore is separate from the material that gives rise to it. For dualism to be wrong, you have to reconcile this issue. How do you do that without violating logic and dismissing all the scientific evidence that the brain is responsible for producing such imagery?
 
'UFOs ( alien craft ) are material objects that could be subjected to the scientific method if we only had physical access to them.'

How do you know this for sure, Ufology?
 
'
UFOs ( alien craft ) are material objects that could be subjected to the scientific method if we only had physical access to them.'
How do you know this for sure, Ufology?
It's a matter of logic based on the classes of objects we're dealing with. Specifically, the objects in psychic phenomena are objects such as talismans, tarot cards, charms or whatever that are made of everyday materials that are well understood. What isn't understood is the power that is allegedly behind them. However that power is typically attributed to a supernatural or non-material source, and therefore by it's very nature cannot represent empirical evidence, which is a primary requirement for the application of the scientific method, and therefore such phenomena can only reside in the realm of the paranormal.

In contrast, the word UFO is meant to convey the idea of an alien craft, and not merely a vague and literally "unidentified flying object" (
full explanation here ). Vague flying objects of an uncertain class are what NARCAP calls UAP ( Unidentified Aerial Phenomena ). In contrast UFOs represent a specific class of objects ( alien craft ) that we know are material by evidence of instrumented detection such as radar, landing traces, and the observation of eyewitnesses. Consequently UFOs are a class of objects for which empirical ( perceptible ) evidence is possible to gather, and therefore, given controlled access to them, they could be studied according to the scientific method. Therefore UFOs don't fall into the realm of the paranormal. I hope that helps to clarify.
 
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...man, talk about perseverance...where do you find all that time and motivation, Ufology. ;)
To be perfectly honest, there are plenty of other things I should be getting done. What I need is to be banned for about 2 months so I can catch up.
But, anyways, I just found this article talking about consciousness in animals and people with brain damage or hydranencephaly. Seemed interesting to me, although it doesn't do much for the ongoing discussion I'm afraid.
Self-Awareness with a Simple Brain: Scientific American
Interesting article. The distinction that some people make between consciousness and self-awareness is a bit nebulous though. Add intelligence and sentience into the mix and it gets even more murky.
 
Since we are on the subject of Bell's Theorem: Can someone explain why "spooky action at a distance" supposedly cannot be used as a form of communication at a distance? The explanation may lie somewhere in the deep recesses of my sodden brain. But I either do not recall it. Or more likely--I just plain did not understand it.
 
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