July 26, 2015 — Don Ecker, Curt Collins and Goggs Mackay

[Sentry]

Constance, I made the observation (not claim), and no, I didn't provide anything to back it up.

 

[Burnt State]

Was anything offered to back up that claim? Sounds like an untethered belief to me.

What is there to tether the objects seen in space to those seen here on earth? They really are two different contexts are they not? Belief would be seeing these two sets of objects as having a similar origin for no apparent reason. This does go back to the simplistic notion that the ETH answers all, and look at where that limited perspective has got ufology so far.

 

[Constance]

Constance, I made the observation (not claim), and no, I didn't provide anything to back it up.

I think it's an interesting hypothesis nevertheless.

But somewhat overstated in Burnt's characterization:

Someone recently astutely pointed out to me that the things astronauts saw and photographed that were anomalous really have absolutely nothing verifiably to do with the UAP's seen and photographed here on earth. An episode distinguishing and/or comparing these two types of UAP's, the outerspace and terrestrial kinds, would make for an excellent show.

 

[Constance]

What is there to tether the objects seen in space to those seen here on earth? They really are two different contexts are they not?

Are they?

Belief would be seeing these two sets of objects as having a similar origin for no apparent reason.

Fastwalkers observed entering and leaving earth's atmosphere from DSP satellites suggest a porous boundary, in fact no boundary at all. Anyway, if anyone who considers a connection is a 'beleever', count me among all those who infer that a connection is possible and even likely.

This does go back to the simplistic notion that the ETH answers all, and look at where that limited perspective has got ufology so far.

I don't think I've said that the ETH "answers all."

 

[Burnt State]

The appearance of UFO's blasting off to join the stars has to be one of the big UFO memes from witness reports, and ufology's history, but such is the appearance of things. The appearance of objects witnessed by astronauts certainly is deserving of its own categorization by virtue of its witness location alone. They very well could be derivative of a similar source, but I think that a more conservative estimation of the facts is that we may very well have something vastly different seen by spacefarers than those documented here on earth. I don't see a reason to connect the dots all the time. Even as thought experiments go there is certainly something more open ended there to pursue as well.

 

[Constance]

Please go ahead and look at this question in whatever way you prefer. I'm not trying to change your mind about anything.

 

[dmanister]

This Popular Mechanics article states that after we went to the Moon, all the goals had been accomplished, so we stopped right there. That sounds like so much hogwash to me.

You've just managed the greatest technological feat up to that point and now you just stop? Mankind has always been about establishing outposts wherever possible. The idea that we took our sand bucket and shovel and went home is ludicrous at best.

I don't understand complaints that we've stopped our space program. We just travelled a craft over 3 BILLION miles to Pluto!

At least one of our drones has gone outside our solar system.

Are you discounting all space exploration that is not manned by a live crew? If so, would you identify what that would achieve that a highly advanced drone could not?

Even if we want to determine if we could survive on another planet, data sent back by a robot could tell us that.

 

[DaveM]

It's one thing to do a drive-by past Pluto. China and India are planning missions to the Moon and Mars. I will bet you that establishing bases is part of their long term goals. Unless you believe that the US has bases there already, we better get off our fannys and get moving.

 

[dmanister]

It's one thing to do a drive-by past Pluto. China and India are planning missions to the Moon and Mars. I will bet you that establishing bases is part of their long term goals. Unless you believe that the US has bases there already, we better get off our fannys and get moving.

We have successfully soft landed on several extra-terrestrial bodies including a speeding asteroid. We're not limited to flyovers.

My question is this: even if we're in a race to establish weaponized military bases in space, what specifically could human personnel accomplish that robotics could not?

 

[Wade]

With a lot less logistical issues on top of that.

At least in terms of life support and possible evacuation.

 

[Creepy Green Light]

I thought this episode of the show was great. I agree with the person that said these types of "round table" shows are great. Love having Goggs and Curt Collins on the show. I was pleased to hear I wasn't alone in the Project Blue Book vs Project UFO debate

Keep up the good works guys!

 

[DaveM]

We have successfully soft landed on several extra-terrestrial bodies including a speeding asteroid. We're not limited to flyovers.

My question is this: even if we're in a race to establish weaponized military bases in space, what specifically could human personnel accomplish that robotics could not?

I would bet that plenty of countries already have robotic weapons in space. That isn't the issue. Staking out claims for the Moon and Mars will call for manpower on those celestial spheres. I would also suspect that we have a two stage space program. A show-and-tell NASA led program and then everything else that the US government doesn't want our citizens and other countries to know about.

 

[dmanister]

Paranoid fantasies aside, what shred of hard evidence exists that there are robotic weapons in space? Anything?

Furthermore, why would "staking out claims for the Moon and Mars" require "manpower?" Flesh-and-blood prospectors on other moons and planets would be exponentially less effective than a herd of robots, wouldn't they?

The retrograde fantasy of shoot-em-up cowboys staking claims to the Moon and Mars lacks awareness of new developments in robotic technology. Sorry, but gunslingers are not the wave of the future.

 

[DaveM]

Paranoid fantasies aside, what shred of hard evidence exists that there are robotic weapons in space? Anything?

Furthermore, why would "staking out claims for the Moon and Mars" require "manpower?" Flesh-and-blood prospectors on other moons and planets would be exponentially less effective than a herd of robots, wouldn't they?

The retrograde fantasy of shoot-em-up cowboys staking claims to the Moon and Mars lacks awareness of new developments in robotic technology. Sorry, but gunslingers are not the wave of the future.

Aside from my 'paranoid fantasy' and 'retrograde fantasy', I will ignore your bullshit reply. You somehow think that countries from Earth that arrive on the Moon or Mars with all their robotic toys will all be good buddies. I don't see it that way. Perhaps in your naivete you do. I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

 

[dmanister]

Aside from my 'paranoid fantasy' and 'retrograde fantasy', I will ignore your bullshit reply. You somehow think that countries from Earth that arrive on the Moon or Mars with all their robotic toys will all be good buddies. I don't see it that way. Perhaps in your naivete you do. I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

"Good buddies"? You totally made that up. I only suggested that anything "manpower" can do in an alien environment robotics can do better.

I realize that the hero gunslinger is an icon for boys, but maybe it's naive to perpetuate an outworn archetype.

 

[DaveM]

Yes, 'good buddies', somewhat like your 'paranoid fantasy' quote. Totally made up.

"Good buddies"? You totally made that up. I only suggested that anything "manpower" can do in an alien environment robotics can do better.

I realize that the hero gunslinger is an icon for boys, but maybe it's naive to perpetuate an outworn archetype.

 

[Randall]

Love the listener round tables . The X-15 rocket-plane still holds the official air speed record ( Mach 6.7 on October 3, 1967 ), and an altitude record ( 354,200 feet ). But who knows what else they might have by now. Don mentioned the Aurora, but according to Wikipedia, it's existence has never been officially confirmed, and if it exists, it's hypothesized to have been the Mach 5 replacement for the YF series ( and "SR" and "A" blackbird variants ) that @Christopher O'Brien mentioned, which were Mach 3.3 aircraft that could reach up to 80,000 feet, and which still hold the speed record for jet powered aircraft ( what an amazing pieces of engineering ).

 

[dmanister]

Yes, 'good buddies', somewhat like your 'paranoid fantasy' quote. Totally made up.

I was referring generally to paranoia and outworn hero archtypes, not to you personally.

Now that robotic space exploration is so successful, it's time to think beyond the old "manpower" paradigm.

 

[ALPHA ROMEO UNIFORM]

Folks do you really think the most wealthiest families on this planet have not thought of getting off this marble? Speculating some would already have escape plan already bottom of the ocean, in mountain side or another place maybe behind the moon who knows! As much as we are taught and taxation's those folks don't care about the bottom feeders and not talking about the every day families on the daily media of the wealthy and famous the one who stay silent. The movie 2012 hit on the head and Governments would tell the top first (lobby groups) then filter to the bottom. Wonder if China and Russian exploration to Mars and Pluto get there?

 

[DaveM]

Folks do you really think the most wealthiest families on this planet have not thought of getting off this marble? Speculating some would already have escape plan already bottom of the ocean, in mountain side or another place maybe behind the moon who knows! As much as we are taught and taxation's those folks don't care about the bottom feeders and not talking about the every day families on the daily media of the wealthy and famous the one who stay silent. The movie 2012 hit on the head and Governments would tell the top first (lobby groups) then filter to the bottom. Wonder if China and Russian exploration to Mars and Pluto get there?

It might already be crowded by the time China and India show up.