Matthew Williams, Circlemaker

[Matthew Williams]

That may be the way it seems to you, but that's not the way it is. The governmental (likely MI5) role in cc history in Wiltshire has been part of crop circle discourse for decades. I'm not going to write a paper about it for you and I'm not going to argue with you. Why do you seem so keen to protect Matt from any reference to this context? He's well aware of it and he can handle the situation on his own.

This stuff about Mi5 is complete fantasy and we can trace its introduction mostly back to one person who I am quite angry with for spreading false rumours. The same person also said that a circlemaker who committed suicide called Paul Obee who was a friend of our was infact "killed by the govt". This simply is not true. This person then went on to say he sad seen "mutilated animals" in crop circles but his camera jammed and when he went back the bodies of said animals had gone. Sadly you do get these complete fantacists involved in UFO and paranormal realms and these subjects do attract crazy people. The man wrote a report which stated that because I worked for customs & excise I must now work for Mi5. Talk about creative invention. This report then went ion to be the basis of a crazy womans' book from Switzerland and is currently doing the rounds. It contained completely unverified information. I have complained to this woman that this stuff is complete nonsense but these people are like dogs with bones and much like he other stuff like Blown Nodes and Microwave damage in crops, these people will still repeat these false statements about crop circle research by Levengood as if it is proven facts. There seems no way to be able to get these people to be honest so this myth seems set to spread like a bush fire where nobody wants to put out those flames - however I hope you on this forum will not be so easily influenced by rumours with no backup - especially when you are hearing the counter information directly from the horses mouth... me.

I have even done videos on youtube talking about this man who spread these rumours and if you can believe the pure cheek of the man, because I was daring expose his myth generation and his apparent mental illness... he demanded youtube remove the videos. So I have preserved them for all time on CirclemakersTv own website. You will have to check out Circlemakerstv do.t org website and select the SCANDAL section.

 

[manxman]

when you are hearing the counter information directly from the horses mouth... me.

some would say it just looks like a horse, when really it's an ass.


just avin a laugh matty lad, you never answered before about that vid posted a couple of pages back.

 

[wwkirk]

Unusual ice circle forms in North Dakota river

 

[Matthew Williams]

Here's a link to a conversation in an archaeology forum on facebook concerning what look like two crop circles appearing in a 2012 Google Earth image of a remote area in southwestern Australia. If you click on the photo it should enlarge. Greg Jefferys is a crop circle researcher who lives down there and is also interested in archaeology. It happens that one of the archaeologists in that forum lives 70 km from that area and visited it a few days after reading GJ's post to find out whether the apparent crop circles are remnants of ancient stone structures. You'll see how that develops in the conversation. Greg Jefferys has since looked at Landsat images of the area to see whether the formations were visible there previous to 2o12 and it turns out that they were not. So these formations might well be crop circles (wheat and oilseed rape are grown in those fields), and if they are, they are especially large crop circles.

We get a lot of these dicolourations and differences in crop growth based on soil changes in the Uk too but there is nothing strange about it, its just a natural effect.

 

[Matthew Williams]

when you are hearing the counter information directly from the horses mouth... me.

some would say it just looks like a horse, when really it's an ass.


just avin a laugh matty lad, you never answered before about that vid posted a couple of pages back.

Im working m way slopwly though all these posst and im about on section 6 of 10... so you must forgive me. I havent got to it yet.

 

[Matthew Williams]

Why don't you give us an example? You can't just throw accusations around and call it a day. Please reveal exactly what your base your accusations and assertions upon, that would be a great help, thanks.

Thanks for your sanity JimiH... yes its very easy for people to say things like "we work for Mi5" but much harder to provide any real evidence. Simply saying that they read about it in some hokey report by some people out to spread much on circlemakers doesnt cut it for me. This is simply lash back for us showing up crop circle researchers. Now the game is on to smear circlemakers in any way possible- they are trying hard but failing.

 

[Matthew Williams]

That may be the way it seems to you, but that's not the way it is. The governmental (likely MI5) role in cc history in Wiltshire has been part of crop circle discourse for decades. I'm not going to write a paper about it for you and I'm not going to argue with you. Why do you seem so keen to protect Matt from any reference to this context? He's well aware of it and he can handle the situation on his own.

Because JimiH - has tried to defnd a rational position you now seem to be saying that he is rigidly defending me. I do not know JimiH. Is it not just that he is trying to put forward a rational rather than a conspiratorial position?

I disagree with many peoples interpretation that there is a Govt link with crop circles because as a circlemaker who knows all the other circlemakers, none of us have ever been approached by mystery figures to make circles. We usually get together and meet in the day or evening before going out and we often change our designs quickly before going to include ideas from members. We also make mistakes in the execution of designs but you wouldn't know this because you didn't see the original designs. This wouldnt seem like evidence of a highly co-ordinated govt scheme. Many nights you try to rally people to make a circle and they are too tired to bother going or would rather go another night because they've had a drink. the reality of circlemaking is not as co-ordinated or glamorous as you may think. Look at the amount of mistakes in this years circles for example because one of the only circlemakers left was a drunkard and couldn't get them right. Is this evidence of a highly co-ordinated Mi5 plot? I think not.

 

[manxman]

Come on matty lad whose your bossman at mi5 man, ive heard its alan tichmarsh, and its all a bbc plot just a kernel of truth in it, a seed of a rumour that i wouldnt give an ear to.


and ps, aint all the corn needles down the boots/wellies a right itchy bastard.

 

[Matthew Williams]

I'd be interested in hearing what @pixelsmith has to say about this video, given his expertise in photography. I wonder if he's ever seen a similar effect while photographing a bird.

I do video analysis. I have seen birds which do show up as white blobs and as they flap their wings it can appear as the blob growing and diminishing which in pixel terms is an on and an off... so appears to be a flickering. Birds do sometimes have oily secretions on their wings which reflects light much like a mirror. It depends on angles from the object and where the sun is.

 

[manxman]

Its an owl ffs.

 

[Matthew Williams]

Maybe this is a side issue, but I can't think of an example of "civil disobedience" that involves vandalism. Civil disobedience is usually nonviolent resistance or the ignoring of particular laws. When those activities infringe on the rights of others (such as the right to not have your property damaged) a crime is committed de-legitimizing the effort. I can't think of a society that "accepts" criminal acts as civil disobedience. Making innocents or third-parties victims of crimes does nothing to advance a cause. Am I thinking about this wrong?

If the intent is some New-Age quasi-religious enlightenment project then my comments about the religious aspects of the circle scene were too watered down. What you have then is a social experiment (mind control) being conducted by amateurs that takes on many cult-like characteristics.

Ah but you hit the nail on the head... you said Circlemaking involves vandalism. Then you go onto say that civil disobedience can involve ignoring certain laws. What about the law that says dont vandalise... ie that is exactly what we are doing, ignoring **that** law.

To vandalise the countryside is exactly what farmers seem to think they have a right to do simply because the law says its ok to pour chemicals over crops and to farm GM crops and to round up cattle in dirty confined ways and pump them with medicines which get into the meat and milk. So its ok for farmers to run riot but not ok for people to make some pretty patterns in the corn. I think one has to weigh up who are our masters here and who sets the rules and why one group of people can get away with things because they are the masters and the slaves are prevented from doing pretty much anything because they dont "own the land". My contention is that we all own the land so the law i wrong and I am ignoring it. I think this meets your criteria.

 

[Matthew Williams]

I'm probably the wrong guy to ask, I thought Pixel made a good point when he said that the object/bird looks like its hovering, birds do hover briefly but not for long periods of time, at least not that I'm aware of, but I'm no more an expert on the flight patterns of birds than I am a video analyst.

The guy in the video does say "Is that a bird" and his female companion responds "What, a shiny bird?" at one point in the video, as if the object was so reflective that she couldn't see how it would be a bird. He also says something like "A balloon" near the end of the video but they don't continue the conversation past that, which also struck me as strange.

Hover depends on winds. To hover with no wind, I would agree... but if a bird is flying into wind, it is not actually hovering as airflow is going across its wings, but to an observer it is standing still. This is not the same as a static hover with no wind. Just pointing that out.

Same as if I took off in my microlight in a 40mph wind heading straight at me... I would appear to take off like a helicopter. However this isnt a true hover -its an apparent static position due to the wind blowing at me.

Birds are often seen soaring and hanging near hilltops.. but one would need a much closer video of what these objects were to say for sure. As far as im concerned it could be birds, baloons etc. Theres no way to know.

 

[Matthew Williams]

I'm not sure if I remember another thread, post-show that has generated this number of posts quite so quickly. Obviously a powerful show for those on both sides of the 'field'

Crop circles do bring out the hard core believers... and when your a circlemaker - oh boy, yes, the fireworks do start!

 

[manxman]

Matty most people wont understand what it is like to be a country boy who lives alot of their lives out under the stars in the wee hours, doing something they get real enjoyment out of, frankly it gives you a different perspective on life, walking over field after field, watching the dogs, looking at the lights twinkling, the peace of it all, they will never get 'it', your not an artist, your a vandal, same as i am not a hunter gather, i am poacher.

 

[Matthew Williams]

Well, I certainly hope that they get Matthew on as a repeat guest. I can think of no one else that can give you the inside scoop on the crop circle scene like Williams can. Williams is to Talbott like Expat is to Hoagland.

Well Gene was correct we did only scratch the surface of what could be talked about, but if your appetite is whet and you want the inside track on circlemaking don't forget to go to CirclemakersTV on youtube and theres 72 hours of circlemaker interviews to give you a very in depth look at what we do.

 

[Matthew Williams]

So really Matthew the big question here is are all circles man made ?

I dont think we can ever answer this in the affirmative.

You can rightly claim all the circles youve made are man made.

But to the question "have you made all the crop circles ever documented ?" the answer has to be no

I'm not necessarily saying that means some are made by ET,or that some makers are commissioned by intel orgs. But the bottom line is despite all the evidence you or anyone else can provide regarding man made circles, the answer for some people to the first question posed, must always remain "we dont know"

People will look at all the evidence and make their own balance of probability call.

But i doubt either side of the debate will ever convince the other beyond a shadow of a doubt

As ive posted earlier, the reports by human CC makers of paranormal stuff associated with their own works is what makes this subject still interesting for me.
Without that aspect it might well be an open and shut scenario. but its inclusion in the story is what stops me from calling "case closed" on the CC enigma

Even Lundberg hasnt got the whole picture yet

Statements like this from human circlemakers leave me with questions, not answers

Are all the circles man made - the simple swirl damage circles are probably not man made. Also prior to Doug and Daves starting to do them on a major scale who can say from the past. It is most likely though that people have made circles for fun for a very long time and this would be the most obvious and simple answer.

Obviously I have not made every single circle. Correct.

I think one can apply some general tests to show if a circle is likely to be made by people by the levels of crop damage present and visible artifacts such as "combing", which shows that a tool like a plant was used. Also construction lines which are made by a persons feet walking around to do the initial lines are a dead give away. Why would aliens use planks 1 metre wide and foot marks 1 foot width wide. So you could use this method to discount most of the circles out there. What would you be left with... not a lot.

I think people should not overlook the possibility that humans have felt drawn to create these circles by some form of internal dialogue with either a gaia mind - a group mind or perhaps an outside intelligence which wants certain shape to be made. So this could mean that Colin asking for the celtic cross was either his idea picked up by a circlemaker direct from Colins mind to that circlemaker. Or perhaps the more exciting idea would be that Coin picked up an idea from a group mind that was transmitting "Celtic cross" - and a circlemaker also picked up the idea and went out and did it. This is the piece we don't know - how is the transmission of the idea given. What is the direction of transmission - person to person... or from some "other" mind to all people who pick these things up.

As you mention, John Lundberg. One has to be a little bit careful with John as he does openly state that he wants to keep the mystery alive by injecting stories into the mix. He thinks that circles as an artform require mystery to be added and the truth to be witheld. This can apply then to much of what is said. You have to decide if you want to believe him. Whereas I am stating that I will not create stories to excite people in this manner and the things you hear from me are real experiences.

To give one example - John stated that his team couldnt have created the Milk Hill Galaxy formation because it was just too complex and they wouldn't have enough time. This is an example of John wanting to promote the mystery of this and a few other circles in order to give an air of mystery back to some formations out there and also so people would like to doubt Johns teams ability to make complex circles. John likes this position as he feels it serves the subject well to cloud over can humans make all the circles or not. This is not a game of truths I like to play. To that end I have even admitted to all my circles that I have created with my team. I cannot admit to ones I have worked on whilst helping other teams as this would break my oath of secrecy whilst helping these other teams with their designs which would be rude of me to do so... I am one circlemaker who is trying to build bridges and not apply the smoke machine.

John also liked to post a Mi5 application form on his website because it would feed into this argument about are Mi5 involved in crop circles. I have tried to dispel this one and steer people towards truth.

John thinks adding some confusion is a good thing. I am very much against this.

I do hope therefore that John and his teams stories about their own wierd experiences are not part of the myth generation again. I can assure you that my experiences are truthful, and not to add myth to the subject. I want also to think that the circlemakers who have appeared on CirclemakersTV are being honest with their experiences - and I hope that seeing these people interviewed for the very first time ever on our shows would give people a real opportunity to judge if they feel they telling the truth.

 

[Matthew Williams]

So Matthew whats your take on the reports of equipment malfunction sometimes reported

I think even the BBC had equipment issues once inside a circle

One must be careful with these type of statements because I have helped people with equipment malfunctions many times. The usual culprit is people leaving equipment in cars overnight and tents which have a lot of moisture and then they turn them on and burn out circuits and then batteries run down because of shorted contacts. Because I am good at fixing electronics and computers - I can usually show them the condensation and clean things out and then things start to work again. I know for certain Canons lenses are very bad in cold winds and humid conditions. Many times when people have flown in my aircraft the lenses wont focus and batteries have run down quickly due to the wind chilling the camera.

Lithium ions are very susecptiable to cold and discharge very quickly. They do warn people about this in the MANUAL but as most people know manuals are boring and its a but MUST to NEVER READ THEM... so when things go wrong it must be paranormal ;-)

Folks - buy yourself a proper professional Pelican sealed case and put Silica Gel inside (and change the silica gel regularly) before you put your cameras to sleep at night in tents and cars... then you have a much better chance of them not ending up refusing to turn on or broken! Water and electronics DONT MIX hehe.

Most people are blissfully unaware of the physical properties of their batteries and how they wont charge in the cold - wont run if too hot or too cold and how over-discharging a Li-ion bat will permanently kill it so it'll only take a 20% charge after that (if at all)... and how overcharging most batteries also kills them. Read the manuals - watc aheap of videos on youtube to learn about batteries otherwise your a driver who never had any lessons in a car and don't have your license. Screeeetch.... bang.... funeral!

Oh yes that woman name is Karen and I have met her. She really doesnt know much about cameras and she does like staying at the barge inn in a tent.

 

[Matthew Williams]

The hoax/real paradigm is based on a false assumption, i.e. that crop circles are of mysterious, anomalous, or unearthly origin.

That is a good question for Matthew. How many crop circles are created with the intent to make someone believe they were other than man-made? I'm thinking a very low percentage. If true then man-made crop circles are not hoaxes. They aren't paranormal, but they are not hoaxed paranormal events either.

The man-made explanation really does not have to be forced. You can look at the things and see the signs of human construction.

We never did get a chance to go into this on the show but most of my circles were created with an intent to channel something from the cosmos that would be of benefit to those who viewed and visited them. Though I have no voices heard in my head or direct flashes of inspiration - often you would find that the circles did have some meaning to someone or connections made down the line. So the influence you have to do a design at a certain place sometimes does seem to have been ordained but not in a forced way but a totally transparent way.
(apart from the time it seemed like we were being stopped from making a circle by some balls of light that seemed to want us out of that field).

Generally we want people to enjoy a circle as much as possible so the intent is for the circle to be good and for people to experience something nicein it. We sometimes ask for team members to be inspired in some way whiklst making the circle. This has sometimes taken the form of a circlemaker telling us they ha a sighting or a shooting star upon them asking for one on demand and this can happen a number of times when asked for. Quite often this leaves circlemakers with no doubt that weird stuff is happening.

So to answer your question - I dont go out of my way to ever create a circle so that it is not known as the work of man. However that is what people will interpret the circle as. I am interested to know if people are seeing our circles that way, and clearly people were. I think generally the more abstract you make a circle the more people will try and read a cosmic meaning into it.

Some circlemakers not on our team have made "alien" style writing in fields. However these were not words, just scrawlings. Some teams have encoded words into dot patterns or number systems - so that people will find a hidden message - but this has been names of Heavy Metal bands they like and all manner of silly stuff - like rude messages to certain circles researchers. "Meaden talks sh**" was one of them. Go figure.

 

[Jimi H.]

.. Is it not just that he is trying to put forward a rational rather than a conspiratorial position?...

Yep, that's it. And thanks for your detailed reply about the issue, it helps to illuminate the mythmaking and the arrogance of those researchers who refuse to be honest.

And Kudos to the Paracast for not being afraid to give airtime to both sides.

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

Julian Richardson has moved onto sand...