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Matthew Williams, Circlemaker

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BOLs (balls of light hovering, moving at speed, and giving indications of intentional activity) have been associated with crop circles in Wiltshire throughout the last four decades. They've been observed by researchers and croppies as well as by hoaxers. Many might be earthlights of the type observed at Hessdalen and other locations on the planet {'Golden Ball Hill' in Wiltshire is in the midst of the crop fields in which many cc have appeared and it's been called by that name since well before the apparent beginnings of the modern cc phenomenon}. Steve Alexander who has captured an enormous number of aerial photographs of cc over the last three decades has also filmed/videotaped BOLs moving at great speed over the crop fields, and over some crop circles. Light phenomena of other sorts (tubes of light, intense flashes of light) have been reported in association with crop circles in England and Holland and probably elsewhere). Re the earthlights explanation, Massimo Teodorani, a scientist who has done considerable research at Hessdalen, has identified some of the light spheres observed and scientifically measured there as not explicable as earthlights. Spherical lights (aka orbs) are increasingly observed and photographed near earth and also pacing (and even examining) aircraft in flight. Something is going on there.

Yes, indeed, why does the hoaxing continue decade after decade, with a new PR program being wheeled out to identify the hoaxers as the special conduit of paranormal forces seeking expression? This makes no rational sense to me, sounds like obsessive behavior. Who cares if some people don't accept the 'all-manmade' claim? Why do these folks care?

Indeed.

I agree we have seen BOLs - I got chased out of a field one night with a team by Balls of Light.

The Golden Ball Hill is sadly not to do with lights though, its a type of flower which grows there. So I am told.

Circlemaking continues because old school circlemakers move on and newcomers come along and learn off the old schoolers and then get very excited make many circles in a season. Theres always new people on the scene as well as a few veterans.
 
I have to add also that i find the logic in the argument since some crop circles are man made, all crop circles must be man made flawed.

Its akin to saying since i can paint van gogh copies that fool the experts, its stands that all van gogh's must be fakes

Or put another way - if all the circles were always made by people then it doesnt matter which ones you say are fake as they are all real - its just the interpretations of those who like or dislike that circle. This can be down to the design or it could be down to marks left on the crop of is it perfect with no marks. Its still a judgement by a person and as we know another person will come along and have the reverse opinion of the first. So all this fake versus real stuff is really irrelevant.
 
No it does'nt mike.

ive been shooting [decoying] over 'crop circles' for nearly forty years of crop protection, they are just wind blown areas of crop, that go down during torrential rain storms, normally where the crop is the thickest, hence why you do not see natural 'circles' at the edge of fields, where the crop is at its thinnest.

The term used in the UK to described down crop because of wind or rain is "Lodging".
 
Agreed - that is the only bit that annoyed me. Moaning that it's too costly to do it honestly - well then, let's all steal someone else's livelihood for recognition.

There can be an argument for shoplifting if a family is starving but the vandalism of crops is not for any noble cause.

I will say that I really like Mathew's telling of his views and the events - his answers were well thought-out and crafted and he didn't waste many words coming out with pretty detailed yet concise answers. The thing is, if he started making circles to prove they can be done, then he'd achieved that long before getting caught. I think he got just as caught up in the buzz of fooling people as much as the inner 'circle' of circle makers.

Definitely a great guest IMO.

Thanks for the compliment and there was me thinking is waffled on to much and should have kept my answers shorter.

Yes getting caught up in the buzz is one thing and trying to see if you can "up your game" to create bigger and better circles to impress the other circlemakers - it become like a challenge.
 
Actually I agree but it was the other guy getting 'paranoid' and I think the other guy was just bringing on genuine paranoia just sweating about transporting a cargo you do not want to go missing on your watch!

His innocence about this answer tells me he has probably never touched the stuff.

All I can say was the smell was so strong we surmised we felt like we were getting high. I seemed to get a headache off it and he said he was feeling weird and was acting very paranoid. I have eaten and smoked canabis and I knw that it has a severe effect on me - i am hyper sensitised to it and always have a bad reaction so it may be possible that a small amount of it was getting to me. Hey, I am just telling the story of how this did happen to us. I thought the other guy was being a bit silly with his over reactions. I once had to return a guys pistol to him... with its bullets that was msuggled through Customs but he had a licence for it... so it got returned to him. For me to be given a gun to return to someone when I don't have a license to carry one was an odd one. I did work for Customs and Excise and I can prove it... Just ask Nick Redfern - he knows my background.
 
I just want to repost this because it may have been missed and I think it's important:



Are these videos available online and if so, can you link them here? The only video of that type I've seen was clearly CGI and was later claimed by an aspiring CGI artist, it was of balls of light hovering over a field and creating a crop circle.

Too many people are taking flash photos and seeing ORBS... but these are just dust suspended in-front of the camera at close range. There are some good footage or wierd orbs over circles. Donald Fletcher took one over a circle. Thats one of the best IMHO. It can easily be searched for on youtube.
 
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Or put another way - if all the circles were always made by people then it doesnt matter which ones you say are fake as they are all real - its just the interpretations of those who like or dislike that circle. This can be down to the design or it could be down to marks left on the crop of is it perfect with no marks. Its still a judgement by a person and as we know another person will come along and have the reverse opinion of the first. So all this fake versus real stuff is really irrelevant.

Again im trying to avoid absolutes.
Im not saying all CC's are man made
Nor am i insisting some are made by ET

But to me its a flawed argument to suggest that if some CC's are man made, then they must all be man made, in the same way we cant say since some van gogh's are fakes, all van gogh's must be faked.

I use the van gogh example because we have similar dynamics, they all look the same, some have fooled the "experts", some artists have admitted they have created "van gogh's" that have fooled experts.

All we can really say about man made circles is they are man made, it is not nor will it ever be proof all crop circles are man made (though that may seem to be a likely conclusion to draw)

But proving you've painted a van gogh that has fooled the "experts" doesnt by extension prove Van Gogh never painted a picture in his life.

In the same way proving humans have made CC's doesnt by logical extension prove no ET ever did
 
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I think that sounds a bit like a cop-out, and a very typical one for the paranormal scene, there's always a supposed conspiracy when things don't seem to work according to the convictions of the believers.

This is the ultimate character assasination, and it's a dirty trick.

Hang on... did I miss a beat. I copped out? To avoid prosecution? But I was proescuted and pleaded guilty and was fined. Jail time... there was no way this would have ever carried jail time. So then its alleged I joined Mi5 to get out of jail time. Hang on... im already a circlemaker and talking about it but i get arrested and have to join Mi5 to be a what bigger circlemaker and talk about it louder? This doesnt make any sense. Oh well.
 
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For me the big aha moment was hearing Matthew explain the plant anomalies sequence and the mysterious, genetically altered node mutations. It took me back 15 years to previous debates about the supposed xtraterrestrial agency responsible for these anomalies. BLT hung their hat on this scienctific upchucking the way Leir claims similar orgies of "science" over the alien implant mythology. This thread's range of belief systems is a wonderful spectrum of what the paranormal is all about from believer to curiosity seeker to skep-dick.

And speaking about @Muadib, my fellow enthusiast, I like the way you had no dog in the fight but persisted to cheer for the critical vantage point - a good place to truly see crop circles for what they are: human constructions engaged in commentary about ccbelievers. You could easily academicize this position the way @Jimi H. accurately did with the big smooth strokes of his electrified tune. Artists never really get to define themselves - that's the job of the critic/historian.

If the intent is some New-Age quasi-religious enlightenment project then my comments about the religious aspects of the circle scene were too watered down. What you have then is a social experiment (mind control) being conducted by amateurs that takes on many cult-like characteristics.

I think this was a pretty astute comment, as was trainedobserver's later comment:

My conclusion about crop circles are that they are nothing but a distraction and have no direct connection with UFOs or the paranormal. Produced by human artists for a variety of reasons, a complex subculture and industry has formed around them based on a misinterpretation of their origins and significance that renders much of what comes out of that subculture meaningless except as cautionary tales.

I would really like to hear @Matthew Williams respond to these points as Matthew speaks well of Colin, but identifies trying to make points to other ccresearchers is like walking hrough treacle. So do you, Matthew, take any responsibility for the cult like experiences and altering of human personalities that have resulted from your late night field graffiti? Forget the researchers deaf to your grainy taunts - what about all the believers you have helped spawn?

But back to the aha moment: if the ccphenomnon, including all the BLT legitimization of cc as genuine xtraterrestrial artifacts, is totally bogus, then how many other paranormal pursuits are based on out of context woodcuts, or begin in layers of myths (stories invented to explain wild phenomenon that we now know to be prosaic events) and today are relaquered by the researchers' claims, who in their garbles, give the people, as M. Williams says, exactly what they want?

And then does that make The Paracast just another Waystation where we are all sitting around the digital glow together in the cave, speculating on the value of pictographs while chewing on that finger hash (dangerous stuff - best to stay away)? The 16 different ccpuns that cropped up in this episode suggests a kind of repetition. But then anything circular is bound to provide the odd synchronicity here and there.
 
I don't think it's character assassination, and it might well be true that MW is one the MI5 disinformation agents planted in Wiltshire. As for it being a dirty trick to speculate that MW is part of the decades-long manipulation and disinformation effort focused on crop circles, it hardly compares in terms of dirty tricks to said extended manipulation and disinformation. Why not read Colin Andrews's book Government Circles to get filled in on the history?

Nooooo. Very bad research. These are just opinions. I am very well known down this neck of the woods. Anyone who heard you saying this would laugh. Its only armchair researchers who have ever accused me of being Mi5. Besides my research over the years has exposed some quite embarrassing things for the UK Govt. like my stuff about RAF Rudloe Manor and Govt. documents which showed there were lies on the existence of Di55 inside the Ministry of Defence. I am a bit of an Anarchist by my actions... not the type of person they would trust to work for Mi5 I don't think.

There have been people who have alleged I work for Mi5 simply because I was a Customs and Excise officer. Very poor research again.

If i were an Mi5 agent I must be the machurian canditate type, because I don't know about it and maybe they will give me a secret word someday and activate me - and I hope when activated it comes with a decent salary- joke! For now I am a sleeper agent, which means I don't get up until lunchtime most days! Also a joke, except the bit about getting up at lunchtime.
 
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ll `


Hang on... did I miss a beat. I copped out? To avoid prosecution - I was proescuted and pleaded guilty and was fined. Jail time... there was no way this would have ever carried jail time. So then its alleged I joined Mi5 to get out of jail time. Hang on... im already a circlemaker and talking about it but i get arrested and have to join Mi5 to be a what bigger circlemaker and talk about it louder? This doesnt make any sense. Oh well.

Which segue's into another example
4 murders are committed down town, all victims were stabbed
CCTV footage shows the murderer on 3 of the crime scenes doing the deed, he pleads guilty to 3 but not the 4th murder.
His fingerprints are on 3 of the knives, but not the fourth.
Much as we might conclude he did all 4 crimes, based on the evidence the court can only convict on 3.

Just as no court could convict Matthew for every single crop damaged by circle makers over the years

He can only be convicted for circles that the prosecution can prove he laid down

We can prove some circles are man made
We cannot prove some were made by ET

But neither can we prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, that all CC's are man made, any more then we can prove Matthew did them all

Each circle must be dealt with on a case by case basis, where no evidence exists for the creator of a particular circle, a finding of "unknown perpetrator" must be handed down.
 
..
So if for the sake of argument ET is making some crop circles, and ET is post biological, it may simply not be willing or able to deal with us as biologicals, indeed the only "component" of value to such a species might be our conciousness...
To me, this if the fallacy of the whole IA singularity deal, supposing that human attributes apply to machines.

A computer doesn't 'want' anything, it has no intentionality, it's a numbers crunching machine. Only a human could 'want' a consciousness, because only a human (or animal) could relate to the concept. And since a human already has a consciousness, only a Dracula-figure might 'need' yet another.

Btw., you don't avoid the mystery of being by invoking non-supernatural alien creators. You only complicate matters further, because who created the aliens that supposedly prey on humans?
 
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..especially if they themselves are machine intelligences having some residual sense of what naturally evolved, organic, conscious experience feels like..
Yea, but they don't have a residual sense of anything, they are machines.
 
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..
Hang on... did I miss a beat. I copped out? To avoid prosecution - I was proescuted and pleaded guilty and was fined. Jail time... there was no way this would have ever carried jail time. So then its alleged I joined Mi5 to get out of jail time. Hang on... im already a circlemaker and talking about it but i get arrested and have to join Mi5 to be a what bigger circlemaker and talk about it louder? This doesnt make any sense. Oh well.
Just to make sure I wasn't misunderstood, I accused Constance of using the alleged Mi5 thing as a copout to avoid facing the reality of humanly created crop circles.

Not you! :)

EDIT: I see from later replies that you got my point..
 
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Re: Mi5 & crop circles

Whenever articles are written with language such as, we believe, is most likely, may have etc. then you know you are in the realm of conspiracy talk. I could find nothing credible to this discussion - just a lot of finger pointing that demonstrates how cc are one of those open ended paranormal tropes that allows for suspicion and paranoia to also be inserted into its discussion. I think the circkemakers clubs (a guy with the board, the rope, the tripod and a few drinks) are more likely agents.

We can make some fairly strong conclusions about human agency for all "designs" in the fields just out of logical deduction. It's time to move on to crop nests.:rolleyes:
 
I have to add also that i find the logic in the argument since some crop circles are man made, all crop circles must be man made flawed.

Its akin to saying since i can paint van gogh copies that fool the experts, its stands that all van gogh's must be fakes



Vincent van Gogh: The Fakes Controversy
If you want to know more about the Wacker fake Van Goghs, read 'A Real Van Gogh' by Henk Tromp. This book explains how so called Van Gogh experts could be fooled into thinking this group of fake paintings could be the real deal.
 
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