May 31, 2009

[David Biedny]

and David... until i see otherwise I stand by my last comment.

Well, then, you've certainly made your own intelligence level crystal clear.

Now chill out, please.

dB

 

[UBERDOINK]

Now chill out, please.

dB

I will. I do have to ask a simple logic question though, if I may.

If someone states a fact, is that fact, completely invalidated just because they may use an example, where in someone exists that others don't respect?

Don't the facts, stand aside from the association of one individual, and as such, cannot be discounted out of hand?

 

[David Biedny]

In my opinion, facts are things that are corroborated by multiple sources. For the most part, I think that facts are fairly self-evident. Opinions are just that, everyone has them, some opinions are more valuable than others (informed opinions).

If something is presented on UFO Hunters, I would have some issues with it's validity. Always look at the credibility of the sources. Do they present some facts on that show? Sure. Do they then sometimes take those facts and manipulate them, mess around with the context, add superfluous emotional content and, for lack of a better term, often piss in the pool? You betcha. And that's my opinion, for better or for worse.

dB

 

[UBERDOINK]

In my opinion, facts are things that are corroborated by multiple sources.

dB

we agree then, the Nazi scientists, using them as the multiple sources, claimed that using mediums via the Virl society allowed them to channel their scientific knowledge.

That is a undisputed historical fact, that many project paperclip scientists expressed, and as such, again it points to a more supernatural component to things.

My opinion based on historical fact.

 

[David Biedny]

we agree then, the Nazi scientists, using them as the multiple sources, claimed that using mediums via the Virl society allowed them to channel their scientific knowledge.

That is a undisputed historical fact, that many project paperclip scientists expressed, and as such, again it points to a more supernatural component to things.

My opinion based on historical fact.

I've seen zero proof to support those "historical facts". Claims from Nazi scientists are just that, claims. Where's the solid evidence?

dB

 

[redclingfish]

UBERDOINK watch out! David is a secret Ascended Master...he has met the three from Venus, and is a Kabbalah pro!

 

[David Biedny]

Oy Vey. Is there some sort of chemical in the air or something?

dB

 

[redclingfish]

I knew you would be aware of my presence, forgive me I couldn't resist. I worked with a guy who believed he was a ascended master and spent hrs telling me all about it, wtf

 

[UBERDOINK]

I've seen zero proof to support those "historical facts". Claims from Nazi scientists are just that, claims. Where's the solid evidence?

dB

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]the father of the modern rocket, Hermann Oberth. He independently confirmed that during the war years there was a Nazi-Extra-terrestrial connection when he stated, "we cannot take credit for our record advancement in certain scientific fields alone. We have been helped." When asked by whom, he replied, "the peoples of other worlds."

also if you were to watch that video I posted, like I said about 7 min in, they interview a Nazi researcher that shows pictures of the activities, and later in the show, they go over to statements of other scientists and the pictures of them in their occult gear.

again, I'm NOT defending UFO Hunters, I simply used it as an easy way to present a historical fact.

Have you done a show on the Nazi "Bell", a book called Brotherhood of the Bell makes a decent case for their odd experiments. Also the Twisted Cross by Joseph Carr is a book on the Nazi's occult practices.

These are just a couple of books, there are many more, and unfortunately many in German that I cannot read.
[/FONT]

 

[redclingfish]

again, I'm NOT defending UFO Hunters, I simply used it as an easy way to present a historical fact.

Sorry UBERDOINK there is a very limited number of evidences accepted here. You can't just go saying what you want from something not on that list.

 

[David Biedny]

Mutual UFO Network

One of the pioneers of modern rocketry (the statement that he was "the father of rocketry" ignores the roles of Goddard, von Braun and Tsiolkovsky), he expressed his opinion that UFOs were of extraterrestrial origin. OK, I accept that, but it's a pretty far cry from the idea that he KNEW that extraterrestrials had somehow helped the Nazis create the type of craft that there is no supporting evidence for, hence, it's all opinion and pretty fucking far from fact.

And that's it for me and this thread, folks. I know when to walk away. Believe what you like.

dB

 

[jpw.in.wi]

the father of the modern rocket, Hermann Oberth. He independently confirmed that during the war years there was a Nazi-Extra-terrestrial connection when he stated, "we cannot take credit for our record advancement in certain scientific fields alone. We have been helped." When asked by whom, he replied, "the peoples of other worlds."

And there once was a man named LTC Philip Corso. He was a career military veteran with an absolutely tremendous resume of professional accomplishments, and he could look right into a video camera and tell, with the greatest ease and mastery of names, locations, dates, and events the most compelling stories you'd ever want to hear about how he accidentally saw an alien body that was recovered from Roswell, and how many years later he was given a file cabinet full of alien craft crash junk that he used to kick start the creation of computer chips, lazers, bulletproof vests, night vision goggles, etc.

Holding up his resume, watching him, listening to him, makes one feel that if there were ever anyone we could trust to be telling us the truth, it would have been LTC Corso. But at the end of the day, all we have are his stories with nothing solid to back them up, and many very significant question marks.

And the search goes on ...

​

 

[Experiencer7]

While I am an atheist (and David says he isn't), many people misunderstand what it is to be atheist.

The literal meaning of the term implies that one is not theistic. What does that mean? To me, it means that I do not subscribe to any religious belief in a creator that needs to be worshiped and who has an earthly organization that is devoted to that activity.

Atheism does NOT mean that one denies the spiritual side of humanity. People have been exploring that side of man for a very long time, and it would be the height of arrogance for anyone to deny the existence of this side of people. I just think that religion, as an organized activity, is designed more for the benefit of the organizers than anybody else!

Benjamin Franklin was most likely an atheist. He certainly was no christian, and made no bones about it. He was, however, most respectful of other people's right to believe and act in accordance with that belief.

However, he reserved the right (and acted upon it often) to ridicule the beliefs themselves. He also wrote about spiritualism, though I understand he didn't use that term. Jefferson, another non-christian founder, wrote often about the spiritual side of man, and seems to have believed in a creator figure, tho he most decidedly refused the christian religion.

This show, the Paracast, explores the paranormal, which includes aspects of that spirituality. Neither David nor Gene have, in episodes I have listened to, denied this side of mankind, as a matter of fact, their exploration of it explicitly recognizes its existence.

As with UFOs, the existence of ghosts, spirits, and other "ghostly" apparitions and figures of mythology have their detractors and supporters, and the supporters have a long history of evidence behind them to support their belief.

Just because I and others like me deny the christian religion (as well as other organized religions) does NOT mean that we deny this entire field of study. Obviously, there is, like with UFOs, something there. Too many people have had direct experience with its manifestations to deny the existence of at least something.

What I have a problem with (and I think David does too, correct me if I am wrong, please) is people that claim to have the answers and point to the bible as if they have made their case with no further explanation required.

The issues Gene and David deal with are complex issues, and one cannot point to one single explanation as "evidence"; using a source that has been studied exhaustingly by many people for years and shown to be less than stellar in its veracity is just bad scholarship and should not be accepted as anything close to real evidence.

This show has just exposed more noise. Good job, Gene and David!

1. One who disbelieves or denies the existence of a God, or supreme intelligent Being.

 

[UBERDOINK]

But at the end of the day, all we have are his stories with nothing solid to back them up, and many very significant question marks.

I agree with this, I do think that with the Corso is one voice, not many. If instead there were other army officials that did some very impressive work in advancing our science or engineering themselves.

That group of officials all agreed on them having talked with spirit beings to get this information, that was then directly turned into inventions they themselves built.

Don't you think there is a very large difference there?

 

[rwahrens]

1. One who disbelieves or denies the existence of a God, or supreme intelligent Being.

And there is nothing in that statement to deny the fact that there are atheists who believe in the spiritual side of man.

Look at Sam Harris. He is very strong in his statements to that affect, and his investigations into the human brain are an attempt to investigate the scientific basis for that spirituality.

Just because I do not believe in a fairy tale creator does not mean that I deny man's spirituality.

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

1. One who disbelieves or denies the existence of a God, or supreme intelligent Being.

Why would God be a being? And why in human form? Are we that important? Do Dolphins think God is in dolphin form? How about Gorillas?

I believe there is an intelligence of some sort, but not a being. That's primitive nonsense that needs to be put to rest.

No one has ever seen such a being, so what does that tell you?

 

[DavidRavenMoon]

I made the mistake early on of interpreting the "experience" phenomenon through a Biblical filter. I was pretty miserable during that period. I now think it more likely that most religion was either given to early humans by malevolent entities as a tool of manipulation, or else formulated by men for the same purpose.
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Yeah, manipulation. Then look how they divide and conquer. You get a bunch of people in agreement, and then the religion fractures. That dilutes the power of the group. Keep everyone fighting with each other.

Maybe it's all about our reactions.

My most recent experience was a very clear voice in my head (at 3:47 am... always the same time I wake up for no reason) telling me to write a book based on some information I was being given, while being shown just about all the information in the universe. I was asked to write a book and gather people together as a movement, and it would be helpful to people.

Right away I'm thinking how many times this has happened to people (good thing they don't burn people alive for hearing voices anymore!) and how religions have been started that way.

I didn't really want to do it, and it stopped. I just don't know how sincere the whole thing was.

So how many people does this happen to until they get one that is willing?

I'm sure some other person would have thought it was the voice of God or something. But my brother and I were told by voices like this not to believe certain things when we were quite young, like religion, and the myths about the pyramids. It has really shaped how I see the world today.

But why? What is their plan? So since they don't want me to have a "world view" I have nothing but endless questions. But questions are good, they make you think.

 

[AnnetteMarie]

for many many moons, I have thought God appears to us in a manner or form we can accept, and deal with. so, the cargo cult has a form they can accept, the natives had a form of 'god' they could accept, and on and on. as we evolve, I think what we can accept also evolves.
in other words, you get what you 'get', get it?

 

[inuk2600]

But my brother and I were told by voices like this not to believe certain things when we were quite young, like religion, and the myths about the pyramids.

David, when I read the first part, I'm no expert, but immediately thought you are having hypnopompic auditory hallucinations. I'm sure you've already read up on it and are fully aware of the phenomena. But I'm very interested that your brother is involved.

Please forgive me that I need to explore the usual explanations... Could it be possible that because you were so young at the time you could have been impressionable to each other? When one of you told the other about the experience, it manifested itself unconsciously in the other psychologically/biochemically?

 

[UBERDOINK]

this quote seems to work for this thread too now I guess

Hallucinations are not restricted to the mentally ill or those under the influence of psychotropic drugs. They are actually rather common, and are often experienced by healthy people under various circumstances. They can also be evoked in various ways. The Czech anatomist Jan Evangeliste Purkinje, one of the founding fathers of modern neuroscience, realized this at an early age