Michael Horn & The Billy Meier Contacts

[Crouching_Sniper]

I think it would be a good idea for you to actually read the information David Biedny posted here, showing that one of the main Meier photos is a bad fake. Others have shown that the so-called Wedding Cake photos are actually created from a model built upon a garbage can.

The fact is that his photos have been analyzed and found wanting.

Indeed I have read Davids analysis and it seems he has done a fairly good job of checking it out. My specific point is that analysis of a low resolution JPEG cannot be taken seriously as proof or evidence either for or against.
I do agree that the wedding cake pics are questionable as indeed so are some of Meiers claims but I am also trying to remind everyone here that if we are to truly seek truth from a scientific standpoint then shouldnt we be scientific about it? With such little first hand evidence available now, wouldnt it be more logical to at least put the Meier case into the '?' basket rather than the 'Definate fraud' basket?

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Indeed I have read Davids analysis and it seems he has done a fairly good job of checking it out. My specific point is that analysis of a low resolution JPEG cannot be taken seriously as proof or evidence either for or against.
I do agree that the wedding cake pics are questionable as indeed so are some of Meiers claims but I am also trying to remind everyone here that if we are to truly seek truth from a scientific standpoint then shouldnt we be scientific about it? With such little first hand evidence available now, wouldnt it be more logical to at least put the Meier case into the '?' basket rather than the 'Definate fraud' basket?

No, because the evidence examined so far shows that it is a definite fraud. This doesn't mean Meier never had a real UFO sighting. But, at best, he embellished whatever experiences he had with fake evidence. At worst, nothing he says can be accepted as fact. The existence of false evidence taints everything.

There is too much going on in this field to worry about this particular case.

Can we move on?

 

[Crouching_Sniper]

No, because the evidence examined so far shows that it is a definite fraud. This doesn't mean Meier never had a real UFO sighting. But, at best, he embellished whatever experiences he had with fake evidence. At worst, nothing he says can be accepted as fact. The existence of false evidence taints everything.

There is too much going on in this field to worry about this particular case.

Can we move on?

Yes we can move on but I must correct your above statement. The only evidence that you have examined and found to be fraudulent in your view are a few JPEGS. As some people would know, Marcel Vogel had a very different viewpoint on Meiers submitted metal samples. So when you say 'the evidence examined so far.....' surely you are only talking about some photos examined by some people?

 

[jritzmann]

Who else looked at the metal sample?

Oh, right, no one. Oh, and no metal sample to be seen today.

So, seeing as there's no corroboration, nor sample, nor anything else to back up the report, I wouldnt throw that into your argument....because it's worthless.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Yes we can move on but I must correct your above statement. The only evidence that you have examined and found to be fraudulent in your view are a few JPEGS. As some people would know, Marcel Vogel had a very different viewpoint on Meiers submitted metal samples. So when you say 'the evidence examined so far.....' surely you are only talking about some photos examined by some people?

I am talking about the photo examined by David Biedny, a noted expert in digital media, and the infamous Wedding Cake photos, which are transparent fakes, JPEG or not. Then there are those pictures of "Asket" and "Nera," which were actually of performers on the Dean Martin TV show.

As to Marcel Vogel, I'm concerned over his credentials, as it is claimed he had numerous patents, but none appear when you check the U.S. patent office.

As I said, the known fakery in the Meier camp is sufficient to eliminate him from contention when you look for real evidence for UFOs.

Let's look elsewhere, OK?

 

[ufoman]

I saw a Meier video. Meier showed a bunch of the metal he had laid out on a table.

 

[Mindsky]

I just got back from reading a lot of posts from that other site, that Had Horn in it. Man, he looked as bad or worse there.

Like here, I was unable to view the pics the person provided over there though.

I have only built an occasional model when I was a child. I stayed with the snap together kind. I hated the glue ones. I have only a minute ability in photography. I can point and click. I have worked in a photo studio and dealt with photoshop, however, it consisted of things like, clicking on the photoshop icon so the program comes up.....

What are the requirements for duplication? Is there a list I missed? What sort of camera would someone have to use? Can we use both arms? a time limit ? What is it that needs duplicating? I see nothing that appears hard to duplicate in the WC photos. It looks like a model in every single one. Um, so I would have to make/take a pic that looks like a model by a house, some trees, and/or car?

If using 1 arm to build and shoot is a requirement, I consider this a bit unfair. Billy has had loads more practice being one armed than someone experienced having 2, and therefore has been using them. Also, Billy may have had help.

For anyone that does a duplicate model, be sure to leave a tac down. If not, I wouldn't be surprised if a certain someone doesn't hold it against you. If I duplicate one, I need to make it look phoney. So, if my model looks like crap, it's on purpose. ;D

I'm not too serious about making one. I see how MH won't play fair with the way things are analyzed. But, I will look around my garage as I come and go for/from smoke breaks and see what I might be able to put together. I also can record myself doing it one armed if I decide to. My trash can lids look cooler than Billy's though. Mine's the race car to his Pinto!

 

[nshanks]

The images are on pages 13 and 14 of the thread. People are obviously having a problem seeing them.
Perhaps Gene could just save a lot of trouble and post them somewhere else on his website?

I have 3 macs running the most current versions of 10.4, and while 2 display the images correctly in Safari, my main PowerBook does not. I did a safari reset and it still doesn't show up. The next remedy is an archive and install of X, but that isn't going to happen.
The firefox version I have (2.0b1) shows the images perfectly. My advice is to install the Firefox browser Choose the independent browser and try with that. (There is a windows version, too)

 

[Gene Steinberg]

The images are on pages 13 and 14 of the thread. People are obviously having a problem seeing them.
Perhaps Gene could just save a lot of trouble and post them somewhere else on his website?

I have 3 macs running the most current versions of 10.4, and while 2 display the images correctly in Safari, my main PowerBook does not. I did a safari reset and it still doesn't show up. The next remedy is an archive and install of X, but that isn't going to happen.
The firefox version I have (2.0b1) shows the images perfectly. My advice is to install the Firefox browser Choose the independent browser and try with that. (There is a windows version, too)

If you folks are still curious, I'll see what we can do. In the meantime, Firefox is the most compatible browser with everything we do. We run into problems with Safari on occasion, and also with Internet Explorer. Our Webmaster has control of the code on our main sites, but cannot do anything more than minor repairs on the message boards, which are done by others.

 

[Mindsky]

One arm? Pfffff....

I'm sorry but is this supposed to be funny. My brother is disabled. First we attack people because they LOOK like criminals now this. If this keeps up I'm out of here. This forum has degenerated!

I got the impression that he was doing the opposite. Showing how the "disabled" can be just as capable. In some ways, they can be more so. I couldn't do the stuff that woman did/does. It was also to show that the arguement that Billy is some how less able because he has one less arm, is a possible Cochran/trump card. I really like Black Sabbath's guitarist. He is missing a couple fingers etc. So, disabilities doesn't always mean one isn't able.

 

[Mindsky]

"lancemoody" posted: Wow! Those (certified!!!!) press releases have certainly been extraordinarily effective! Did anyone catch the network news stories on the Meier case? Or the stunning "60 Minutes" feature? Or the New York Times front page headlines?

This is going to be bigger than Fingernail art (which would have been even bigger if anyone had ever heard of it. A quick google search shows Finger Nail Art to be so popular and cool that the internet hasn't even discovered it yet! That's hot! ). End Quote.




The quoting on this site is not working, or I'm just stupid and haven't figured it out. It places my post inside the other person's post/quote box.

Anyway, I was curious so i did a search and found this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nail_Art_(Embossing_on_paper_with_finger_nails)

FingerNail Art - Google Search

Don't know if this relates to Horn. I didn't care to read much about it. I don't care to paint my nails etc.

I see a Billy photo used in a X-files poster!!!! Think the slogan is, "I want to Believe".....

He get paid money for that? Man, that would suck. If he has, I don't want to know, come to think of it. Depressing.

 

[Mindsky]

Anyone else notice how often Horn refers to ethical standards but acts in ways that give the impression that he has none of his own. Or he just doesn't use it much here. Do as I say, not as I do kinda thing.

Has Horn commented on the pic with the fallen tack? I would like to read it if he has somewhere. Thanks for any links or info.


I keep reading the BM supporters act as if people conclude that the Billy Meier case is a hoax due to 1 single little itty bitty aspect of one picture. That isn't the case. Here's some of the reasons people conclude Billy to be a hoaxer.

Billy Meier - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If the link doesn't take you to the exact part I am refering to, see: Criticism and controversy in the table of contents.

Where's Billy's clear color photos when it comes to this pic I wonder.....
http://www.gep.alien.de/jufof/artikel_meier02.htm

Or these blurs..
http://www.figu.org/us/images/pictures/ufology/photos/f0111us.jpg

I'm biased too. I really want these aliens to be real and abduct me. Especially the brunette, but I'm not too picky.

Oh, that's right, the ol MIB excuse. Always handy when busted. Any evidence that MIB were anywhere near BM ever? One outrageous claim to cover for another. Buying it is to be high on delusion. Anytime one finds dirt on BM, play the MIB card.

Skeptic's of Billy Meier
Funny, *children* made a model that looks like some of what Billy photographed. If you Believe Billy, then children can make an object that looks like the ETs' craft. Impressive children, or unimpressive ET ships? Or lies?

Metal Samples and Vogel:

"The metal alloy samples which were given to Meier by the Plejarens were handed to Wendelle Stevens who then had them tested by scientist Marcel Vogel. However, no such metal exists today, and there is no corroborative backing to the alleged analysis done by Vogel. Vogel claimed the metal strangely vanished not long after his work was completed, well before any other scientist could examine it."

That being the case, that is not proof at all. Just one person's word about a rather far out claim that is not proven to the extent that people lie. That being the case, I'll lean toward it being a lie til better evidence comes forth.

PS. A MIB is typing this.

Lots more discussed at the Wikipedia page linked above.

According to Wendele Stevens, the Ets wanted Billy to pass on information.

Yet I read that the ETs don't want to prove their existence in any sort of definitive way, therefore, Bill doesn't have a new arm, and the ETs don't land in the middle of New York kinda thing. So, here they are, giving info. they want passed on to us, but they aren't concerned with the fact that had they contacted more than Billy in more impressive ways, their information they want us to have would be listened to with way more ears and validity. Rather than snickers, rolled eyes and scorn. Seems counterproductive...... Advanced beings that lack simple reasoning skills in important matters.

Something to make you go, "WTF!?". Groovy tune.

 

[Mindsky]

I was wrong!!! Billy's alien buds came down in Vegas in the WC ship!!

 

[Mindsky]

My own take is, he's a sincere religious sort of fanatic, that doesn't hate money and gets off by thinking he wins debates using tactics that would make Johnny Cochran proud (or maybe even Johnny would go, "Huh!!?". Ok, depends what side Johnny would be on...). Being a spokesperson fills his ego in ways fingernail painting hasn't perhaps. Just my observation/interpretation.

I found this which I think you touched on earlier Aspie. The 9/11 bit.

I could stomache half. What I heard wasn't anything unique that couldn't have been thought up, or gotten elsewhere from a million other sources. It would have been nice to know about all that before 9/11...... Wonder how much of what Horn said in the clip will be changed in the future to match more current thought up truths gotten from other NON-alien sources. Alex Jones, CNN, Time magazine etc.

 

[TerraX]

My own take is, he's a sincere religious sort of fanatic, that doesn't hate money and gets off by thinking he wins debates using tactics that would make Johnny Cochran proud (or maybe even Johnny would go, "Huh!!?". Ok, depends what side Johnny would be on...). Being a spokesperson fills his ego in ways fingernail painting hasn't perhaps. Just my observation/interpretation.

I think that sums up "he who shall not be named" quite nicely. A couple of days ago I stumbled across on one of his newsletters and quite frankly was amazed at how far "he who shall not be named" goes . Being of Jewish descent himself, "he who shall not be named" has no problem adopting the philosophy of the Meier case which in part reeks of anti-semitism. Religious fanatic, hm?
TheyFly.com - The Billy Meier UFO Contacts

 

[Mindsky]

Given something you've said on your site Aspie, I got the impression that you haven't really dove into the BM case til recently, after that pleasant e-mail you got from MH. I've read many of your posts and am impressed at how much you know about the case, given so little time.

I envy your ability to listen to C2C btw. I can't sit through all those commercials, ack! The guests are usually not worth it. I used to back in the 90s. Not sure if you are a paid subscriber there, and able to listen whenever and "fastword". Your site allows me to review many shows without the marketing BS. Well, besides books and newsletter plugs many of those guests do.

You plan on making your Billy M. section bigger now? ;D

 

[jritzmann]

Just in case my duplicated shots are not showing over on other boards, here are the ones "he who shall remain nameless" had a meltdown over.

The model, a Ray Harryhausen "Earth vs The Flying Saucers" piece. But honestly, 2 pie plates and an ashtray would have done just as well.

Very literally a small model, string, a fishing pole and a camera got these results.

"He who shall remain nameless" martyred himself on that particular message board so he didnt have to face the music, got himself banned after repeated warnings.

His statement was that I had to submit these for analysis. My answer was when Meier submitted his to a 3rd party analyst using today's modern equipment, I'd submit mine.

To date they have failed to do so, and I dont expect they ever will.

 

[Aspie]

Given something you've said on your site Aspie, I got the impression that you haven't really dove into the BM case til recently, after that pleasant e-mail you got from MH. I've read many of your posts and am impressed at how much you know about the case, given so little time.

I envy your ability to listen to C2C btw. I can't sit through all those commercials, ack! The guests are usually not worth it. I used to back in the 90s. Not sure if you are a paid subscriber there, and able to listen whenever and "fastword". Your site allows me to review many shows without the marketing BS. Well, besides books and newsletter plugs many of those guests do.

You plan on making your Billy M. section bigger now? ;D

I'm not sure about making the BM section any bigger, I don't want to give this horrid little man Horn the time of day, he is a complete joke. I would sooner leave the photo analysis to the experts. I'll stick with the predictions, and I have already uncovered some evidence that Horn lies over past predictions. Just a simple look at the Wayback Machine uncovered documents from his site back in 2004 which proves he is lying.

It's about time I did some updates too. It's been over a month due to the fact I bought an Xbox 360 and have spent most of my spare time winning the war in Call of Duty 2 ;D ;D I do have the streamlink though so I don't have to suffer the C2C ads. I have just become disillusioned with it all though. C2C never ask the real questions, they never challenge any of the guest. We are constantly told Morton has an 80 - 90% hit rate, which is absurd, he is 10% at best. Art Bell continues to promote Ed Dames as having loads of hits. I have been listening for 10 years now and I am still waiting for his first one.

 

[TerraX]

I'm not sure about making the BM section any bigger, I don't want to give this horrid little man Horn the time of day, he is a complete joke. I would sooner leave the photo analysis to the experts. I'll stick with the predictions, and I have already uncovered some evidence that Horn lies over past predictions. Just a simple look at the Wayback Machine uncovered documents from his site back in 2004 which proves he is lying.

Take a look at "he who shall not be named" latest newsletter where Meier&Co prophecise about the Israeli - Lebanese/Hezbollah conflict. They even warn about the possibility of starting WW3. And what's the situation right now? Right, cease fire and stabilisation. Bunch of windbags who want attention if you ask me, and do you see "he who shall not be named" comment on changing situation? And btw, I checked out Meier's site before he came out with those remarks and there was nothing. Suddenly he had a lot of contacts allegedly before the events happend but there was nothing published at or just after the supposed dates. It's quite easy to prophecise after the event and pick an earlier date.

 

[jritzmann]

Terrax-thats all there is too. This really is a big part of the "mystical" devotation this guy has. I mean I went thru the other day just thinking about all the bad tainted crap in this case, and thought to myself, why would anyone believe it??

This is as near as I can figure out. These "prophecies" are what is keeping people in. I think these people are of the belief that if they stay close to Meier and his "teachings" that theyre going to be the "survivors" of these catastrophic disasters they've been predicting for years.

"Our future survival" keeps being put forth by "he who shall..." over, and over.

It's nothing but a fear tactic for the weak minded.