Michael Horn & The Billy Meier Contacts

[jritzmann]

He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

Why do they keep showing J.R.'s unfinished WCUFO photo?

Because I was stupid. I admit my mistakes, and I can tell you I should have well seen the ammunition I was giving the madmen. My fault, and I have to admit that.

As David has told me and many others from the recent Victors list "volley", I have done my job and presented my photos and data. I have proven my points. There's little point to going any further with this, as it's simply drawing more attention to the case and more gratification for Horn. I can be content knowing the vast majority of people who actually "believe" in this case are it's many zealots and congregation. The rest have long since turned their backs.

So, I'm done. Whats next.

 

[ufowatchdog.com]

He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

Let me share with you a small sampling of the many disjointed, huff n' puff, maniacal e-mails I've received from HWSNBN. He certainly puts up a good front during his presentations and media appearances...

>From: Michael <michael@theyfly.com>
>To: ufowatchdog@msn.com
>Subject: Gee, ready to eat your words?
>Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 23:13:33 -0700
>
>Hey fool,
>
>UFOs, Extraterrestrials and Prophecies
>
>this is just what happens when people check it out for
>themselves...and don't rely on cowardly, bottom-feeding
>parasites...like you.
>
>MH
>www.theyfly.com

Like most UFO zealots, when the evidence begins to have a negative impact on their fantasies and sales (DVDs, lectures, Cds, et al) they go on the attack.

Don't waste your time on Meier or his fanatics. You can't prove anything to faithful Kool Aid drinkers, especially those selling the Kool Aid.

 

[jritzmann]

He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

Man, you got that just out of the blue? Thats absurd. I've already reported him to his ISP 2 times due to harrassing emails.

Royce, flip me an email at jeff.ritzmann@gmail.com when you get a minute.

 

[ZTGR]

He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

Hi,

New to this forum but not to the Meier info...saw presentations by Horn in Australia (Nexus mag) and in Toronto. Both had some of the same info but also I think different, like the photo comparison.

I do find that there's an awful lot of content for a hoax...or one that seems to have lasted so long without a real expose`. Skeptics weren't helped by the photo comparison, there really didn't seem to be any real challenge...maybe there are better photos to try to compare.

I saw the hall of shame write up on Meier but didn't know that Horn had any debate about it with the watchdog guy...If Meier turns out to be real (and looking at this for 7 years I think he probably is the real deal) then there will be probs for those who've attacked the case.

I see that David claims that all of Meier's images are fake but where does he prove that? A real hot topic...I think the doubters will have to do more than just criticize either Meier or his rep. I do get into the prophecies stuff and am impressed...

 

[ZTGR]

He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

P.S. here...checking my post I noticed that you have an automatic name change for the rep...I think it makes it look like you go to too much trouble and make someone accidentally famous in some way. Maybe no one knows unless they join the group. On the other hand it could seem like he got under your skin...

While I'm at it, one thing that stuck out is that the rep does answer questions pretty good and I think it would be hard to do it if everything's a lie (too much info to keep track of)...and has anyone here gone and challenged hin at a lecture?

what do you guys think?

 

[jritzmann]

He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

While I'm at it, one thing that stuck out is that the rep does answer questions pretty good and I think it would be hard to do it if everything's a lie (too much info to keep track of)...and has anyone here gone and challenged hin at a lecture?

what do you guys think?

You have to realize that Horn's answers to questions about the case are literally regurgitated "facts" due to his devoutness to the case. He claims to have studied it for over 20 years. If you listen to different interviews with him, you'll see common sentances and at times he sounds like a record player. He's got it down, no question.

The only reason it's been around so long is due to it's own self promotion, and due to it's fear tactic selling points.

David's gonna slap me, but I gotta say it...
"the force can have a strong effect on the weak minded".
..or people wanting "all the answers".

I've asked publicly for the scans of Police reports for Meier's assassination attempts. Watch what happens. He can answer questions, but not the real questions. Those you'll get nothing from him but venom.

 

[ufowatchdog.com]

He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

Man, you got that just out of the blue? Thats absurd. I've already reported him to his ISP 2 times due to harrassing emails.

Yep, I get an e-mail here and there from this nut. One of the more recent ones has the subject line as "Hey, parasite". I get an occasional demand for an apology from HWSNBN. It really is ridiculous.

HWSNBN found out about my Hall of Shame featuring Meier and contacted me. At first, HWSNBN was cordial and civilized with his communication. That all changed when HWSNBN realized I wasn't going to change my mind about Meier and his bogus UFO claims. I received a barrage of e-mails from this twit demanding that I immediately apologize for "slandering" Meier. :

What some may not be aware of: HWSNBN helped produce Ed Dames' first learn remote viewing at home video kit. It wasn't until Dames got sued by Light Works Audio & Video that HWSNBN came forward claiming that it was his ethical duty to inform the public that Dames may not be on the up-and-up: SIGHTINGS Give it a read, it is very revealing.

Light Works won its lawsuit against Dames, so I can only imagine that HWSNBN got his paycheck. So why didn't HWSNBN come forward sooner or quit the production...? I guess Pleiadian ethics are flexible when galactic credits are involved.

Like I said, those who promote Kool Aid drinking and other nonsense have much more to lose than those exposing ridiculous claims...

 

[David Biedny]

He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

Man, you got that just out of the blue? Thats absurd. I've already reported him to his ISP 2 times due to harrassing emails.

Man, his ISP must hate him - I had to report him this week, he won't stop sending me emails after I've officially served him with a cease and desist.

It's really simple - the guy suffers from some mental illness issues, and is in a deep state of denial. He's also a compulsive liar.

It really seems that the UFO field suffers from a rash of opportunistic profit seekers - there's a fine line between open-mindedness and desperation for predigested answers to highly complex questions. It's not surprising - there is so much confusion, disinformation and downright fraudulent garbage floating around out there, and it takes serious work to cut through the noise and hone down to useful signal.

My father always impressed upon me the importance of choosing one's heros carefully, and I have to say, precious few folks in the UFO world strike me as hero material. No one in the Meier case is even close to that level, or will ever be.

 

[ZTGR]

He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

Don't know how you guys feel bout a devil's advocate here but I'll give it a try. Two things pop into my mind, one is the obvious that the guy isn't here - is it by his choice or yours - to defend himself? Seems like you got current complaints...not just from the radio interview...but no current response from him.

Other thing...I read the watchdog site about Meier and same thing with even comments here, I don't see proof of what's said against Meier. I already said that I'm pretty cool with his case...so if I look at all the attacks I gotta ask, "Where's the beef?" Heck, if someone was saying things about me or a buddy of mine like the watchdog site without much to go on I'd be pissed, specially if I knew it wasn't true.

Earlier this year I did get a bunch of stuff from the rep's site and it's given me lots to think about...And I did download some of the analysis stuff too, gotta talk to some guys who know more about photos than I do...Wendel Stevens and the Swiss guy who also spoke come across as completely credible...both spoke for about an hour I think.

I also gotta say that like the presentation in Canada, I don't see real strong contrary facts coming out against it. He answered lots of questions that I haven't even seen posted here...I don't know about other emails with you guys.

Has anyone else here gone to a lecture?

And I gotta say that you're making the guy into just the kind of hero you say he isn't...with a special name, etc. I think that I'm gonna react like most other people who aren't involved in the fight...looks like you gang up on a guy and we have to take your word for it all since you keep him from responding.

My thoughts...

 

[Mannyp4]

He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

Terrax, they posted a video in another forum, trying to make it look funny.

But I guess they haven't seen this one:

Ryn9M9iDhZI

post the link to them.

Note: Skeptics don't go to HWSNBN presentations because they have known since years that this is just an old money making game, you have to be blind not to see it, just check UFO forums and you will see the work they are trying to do, I even saw one of them posting "my job here is done" after opening like 4 threads about the same subject "Meier." (Let's get them to buy the books)

BTW where are the non skeptics reviews on the presentation? Was there only 1? And are they friends? :

Where were the aliens when Meier was in a Psychiatric clinic for few years? vacation? :

They can erase people's memory so they can't remember a tree, but they can't erase them so Meier didn't have to be in a Psychiatric clinic for years? Or maybe they decided that he needed it? ;D

Where are the non skeptics defending the pictures of the dinosaurs (painting),laser gun (toy), S.F. earthquake future (magazine)? They go and spin 360 and talk about something else when this question arrives.

 

[David Biedny]

He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

ZTGR,

Horn was indeed banned from these forums for his abusive behavior, after multiple warnings.

Please read this entire thread from beginning to end, if you want to fully understand what we went through with, well, you know.

The Meier case, in terms of any paranormal aspect, has been thoroughly debunked, and is not found to be credible in any way by those involved in the legitimate UFO research field.

 

[Mindsky]

He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

Heh, something to keep in mind is people are entitled to their beliefs about other people's beliefs.

I recall George Carlin being on Politically Incorrect. He was making fun (and a lot of sense) about Christianity. The Christian on their jumped on him saying she is entitled to her beliefs, and Carlin replied, and I'm entitled to criticize them.

 

[ZTGR]

He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

Guys, I'm just looking for specifics and so far have only seen them from the rep and the other Meier people...material.

I read that he wasn't paid for the lecture...anyone know to the contrary? Anyone that goes for three hours non-stop for free wins some points..from me.

I also gotta say that the stuff I got on the case is good quality...I have looked into the info and so far it checks out.

One thing I was curious about was the battle he had with guys from IIG...I read about a guy Ike42 who said Meier cheated on Jupiter info but then the rep guy's response was much better...the stuff just wasn't there for Meier before some critical dates and stuff.

I don't care bout personal issues here, just the facts...maybe you don't care about outside opinion but I want to see something that makes me think you're right...so far it just seems you don't like the guy. More beef...less beefing!

 

[jritzmann]

He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

Guys, I'm just looking for specifics and so far have only seen them from the rep and the other Meier people...material.

Then you clearly arent looking. What specifically do you want? Try here:
The Billy Meier case: review of arguments concerning the 'weddingcake craft' pictures and footage

This does a pretty good job at layman's explainations of some things. It's a start for ya.

I read that he wasn't paid for the lecture...anyone know to the contrary? Anyone that goes for three hours non-stop for free wins some points..from me.

Funny, ticketmaster charged 40 canadian dollars per ticket. I'd be surprised if He Who Shall Not Be Named? didnt peddle his DVDs and CDs at the lecture...nobody works for free, and niether does he. The bottom line, you paid to get in, thats a paid lecture. Period.

I also gotta say that the stuff I got on the case is good quality...I have looked into the info and so far it checks out.

What have you checked out? How about the "experts" quoted that He Who Shall Not Be Named? selectively edits to make it appear that credible people examined the case as authenticating it.

Lets look at Robert Post's quote by He Who Shall Not Be Named?'s website:
"From a photography standpoint, you couldn't see anything that was fake about the Meier photos... I thought, God, if this is real, this is going to be really something."

Robert Post was head of JPL in Pasadena by the way...so He Who Shall Not Be Named? puts this forth as one of his experts who are authenticating the photos.

However do some "checking out" as you say you do...and you'll find this, as said by Mr. Post:
"a lot of the pictures weren't really photographs at all - they were lithographs,"
(or high-resolution ink prints made from photos - and, hence, were worthless for purposes of analysis.)

Post also said the photos were:
"a lot fuzzier than the stuff on the lithographs, and I thought that was a little strange."

and...

"Nuts, maybe this guy is just a con man.' That's not the kind of guy I want to have anything to do with."

Not very supportive is it? Rather the opposite.

So, how interesting. These people were NOT even given so much as a negative, but a litho??? How absurd is this?

How absurd? It's standard operation for the Meier case. After I caught He Who Shall Not Be Named?'s deliberate and misleading selective quote from Post and showed him the rest of what Post really had to say, he said in effect he purposefully left out all the remarks to see if anyone would catch them. What unadulterated B.S. He was caught, and it's that simple. It's within the ATS thread. Go read it.

Talk to Ken Dinwiddie who used to work for DeAnza, who according to the photographic analysis report by Dilettoso and Stevens, provided the computers for the task of examining the photos. Dinwiddie said this is what happened:

"They came to De Anza under the pretext of wanting to buy our equipment. We demonstrated it, and they snapped many pictures and left. We made no data interpretations whatsoever"

So yeah DeAnza provided the computers...in what amounts to a demo. Apparently they didnt buy so much as a floppy disk...what the hell, they didnt have to...they got what they wanted.

So what about the photographic report's "analyzed" photos showing all sort of exotic fields and heat, etc?

Dinwiddie said:
"Those are their interpretations, not ours. Nothing we did would have defined what those results meant."

What does Dinwiddie say about this particular caption in the Meier book detailing the photo analysis:
"Thermogram -- color density separations -- low frequencies properties of light/time of day are correct; light values on ground are reflected in craft bottom; eliminates double exposures and paste-ups."

His reply:
"No, we put those colors in the photo!" Dinwiddie exclaimed. "Jim [Dilettoso] said, 'Can you make the bottom of the object appear to reflect the ground below?' I said yes, and we performed the operations that they asked for."

Core data tampering. No way out, no excuses...thats it. They altered the photo to show what they wanted it to show, when it didnt. False data.

So I ask again....where are YOU looking to "check this out"?

If you'd like to read the whole article on the man heading the Meier photo analysis, go here and read it:
http://www.rickross.com/reference/ufo/ufo4.html

One thing I was curious about was the battle he had with guys from IIG...I read about a guy Ike42 who said Meier cheated on Jupiter info but then the rep guy's response was much better...the stuff just wasn't there for Meier before some critical dates and stuff.

Ike has gone to great detail about his sources and publish dates. So saying it "just wasnt there" is incorrect. Meier also said the "girl" featured in the alien autopsy film (Ray Santilli) was not an alien, but a female suffering from what his Plejaren buddies called "Proteria". This "disease" is described in detail on the FIGU website, but all in all, it doesnt matter.

The man who made the alien John Humphreys, was identified as making the alien prop:

"John Humphreys, an artist and sculptor, was employed to construct two dummy alien bodies over a period of three weeks, using casts containing sheep brains set in jelly, chicken entrails and knuckle joints obtained from S.C. Crosby Wholesale Butchers in Smithfield meat market, London."

Meier, again, proven conclusively wrong...not even a human, just a prop.

I don't care bout personal issues here, just the facts...maybe you don't care about outside opinion but I want to see something that makes me think you're right...so far it just seems you don't like the guy. More beef...less beefing!

If you choose to believe these windbags who peddle this case thats your business, you'll have to square that up yourself. If you care enough to do some real looking past what they tell you and want you to believe, you'll find out what's goin' on.

Today, the PAR message board has been kinda rife with cheers that I'm ceasing to care about this case. ex:
"Now it seems Mr. Ritzmann has given up recreating Billy's pictures??? He doesn't want to create anymore attention to the case I love it!!"

I'll bet they love it, because that means they can go back to their delusion and stop worrying that they might actually lose their belief system. These are people who so sorely lack any skills to prove or disprove their case, and are led like sheep. Just read the board, and you'll see that.

Of course this is also a board where the members speak about Cris Angel (the magician) having psychic powers and minions that help him do his illusions. It's also where I have read that one member wished people like me were "cleansed from the earth", so they wouldnt have to deal with me.

Sound like rational people to you?

So, please dont talk to me about personal feelings and He Who Shall Not Be Named?'s "facts". Do some digging and you'll see how contrived and utterly worthless this case is.

PS-Forgot to mention that on an email list David, Gene and I are on, He Who Shall Not Be Named? has gone on and on for days about the case and us. He started into the alledged assassination attempts on Meier, and he said there were police reports. I asked to see scans of said reports.

Guess what. He Who Shall Not Be Named? has gone completely silent. Shocker.

 

[Mannyp4]

He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

It seems you haven't read much in this case, either that or you really are He Who Shall Not Be Named or one of his helper.

Ike42 found out that most of the information was from the same year or maybe a month or 2 and it was not from years before as they want you to believe in order to buy the books. that was his main point.

on the "he wasn't paid for the lecture" maybe, but you know that was just promoting and I am pretty sure that the $52 bucks dvd with full new "information" was mentioned there. have you bought it yet? :

Note: holy *** the dvd price went down to $35 bucks, What happened? wasn't selling much?

Please show us the specifics you said you are seeing from the rep, should be fun. or anything that couldn't be made in earth and from humans in this case, just one thing will do.

Have you seen the pictures of dinosaurs (painting), laser gun (toy), S.F. earthquake future (magazine)? can someone post them here for him to see and dare to justify them.

Did David Biedny got paid for the photo analysis, or J.R for his photo? so "Anyone that goes for three hours non-stop for free wins some points" I can assure you they spent a lot more than 3 hours. lol

 

[morrison1976]

He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

I remember the first photos i saw from bill meier were quite impressive for me. But the photos a saw today are terrible. The ufo hovering above the car just looks so fake. The car and the tree are so out of focus. To me it looks like the backround is black material. The car and the tree are just models. The photo that shows the ufo hover above green van thing next to a tree looks so fake too. Is it just me or does the ufo look really close to the camera and not above the green van. From the photo i am looking at i cant tell if the tree is touching the left side of the ufo. I have seen many more of these photos today, and i am shocked that horn thinks these are real. Yes. some of them are clever, esp for its time, but i think meier got to confident with his faking and that was his undoing. Horn seems like an intelligent bloke, but he is either in on this scam, or he is very delusional. I have been intoo ufos for a very long time now, i am not a de-bunker. I believe things like roswell, nasa transmissions, rendleshem forest incident, and may more. But this, to me is so fake. And yes, it does piss me off. I dont know about all the photos, the so called physical evidence and the other stuff, but the photos i have mentioned are terrible

 

[David Biedny]

He Who Shall Not Be Named™ & The Billy Meier Contacts

ALL the photographic evidence is unconvincing, completely questionable, and with little to no merit. The "prophecies" are all bogus.

The Meierites claim that Marcel Vogel held numerous patents, and while he was apparently a gifted scientist, he held not a single patent - this is easily verified via research. Anyone who reads this whole thread can easily see that ALL the claims made by Horn were proven to have no basis in reality, from the credibility of their claimed "experts" to the technical specifics of one of their fabricated images.

The biggest destructive issue with Meier, aside from damaging the credibility of serious UFO research, is that he claims that ALL OTHER UFO accounts and reports are fabricated, that only HIS "experiences" are legitimate. This one element is enough for any resonable person to discount this nonsense - it smacks of religious dogma, and the zealotry displayed by the US rep is exactly what you would expect from a religious cult advocate. Add to this situation the fact that Meier claims to be the reincarnation of Christ, and you're in Waco Wacko territory.

The US rep himself has stated publicly that the UFO aspect of this situation is not important, so why does anyone even care about it anymore? That's the part that stumps me. It's a cult, with a philosophy, a fabricated mythology, passionate but deluded followers, and an actual agenda involving financial profit. There's the bottom line, like it or not. He Who Shall Not Be Named™ has shown the willingness to lie, distort, threaten, distract and display behavior demonstrating a deep psychosis, which tells you all you need to know about the "reality" of the this situation. Enough already, really, there are FAR more interesting UFO cases to study.

 

[Mindsky]

He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

What mailing list are you 3 on? UFO updates? I left that one a couple years ago. I hated how the moderator handled things. I been thinking about joining back though. Or, joining another one.

 

[David Biedny]

He Who Shall Not Be Named? & The Billy Meier Contacts

Mindsky - it's the list maintained by Victor Martinez.

 

[ZTGR]

He Who Shall Not Be Named™ & The Billy Meier Contacts

Hi,

As I said...I'm partial to the case, have material on it and want to try to be a devil's advocate...even promote some kind of real dialogue or find common ground. Not sure It can happen here...everyone's pretty set, one way or the other.

I wrote the rep with a couple of comments...his comments to me are below with mine. I don't know if it makes a difference...just got to say though that I don't find it to be black and white like it's painted here...hey, don't shoot the messenger (me!):


DELETED



> Hello Mr. He Who Shall Not Be Named™,
>
> We spoke at your lecture in Toronto...I'm the guy who
> travels a lot and also saw you at Nexus.
>
> I've joined the Paracast forum to see what they have
> to say. there are other critics on there...like Jeff
> Ritzmann and www.ufowatchdog.com guy. You didn't
> mention watchdog, any comments about him?
>
> They don't use your name there...I haven't seen
> anything yet that's really strong against
> Meier...seems they don't like him or you.
>
> Your thoughts...?
>
> Tiger
>
>
>
>
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