Michael Horn & The Billy Meier Contacts

[Gene Steinberg]

Gene,

Your statement, "Please don't mislead the people who read these messages. You were specifically told that David would post relevant information about his analysis after the June 11th episode of The Paracast." is effectively, again, calling me a liar. What kind of tone would you adopt with someone who falsely accuses you of lying and then, when you present the ironclad proof, they refuse to act with integrity - like a man, like any decent person should - and apologize?

Your statement is backwards and incoherent and, frankly, difficult to respond to in any meaningful way. So let me just tell you the very same thing all over again. The show containing your debate with David will be broadcast on July 11th, at 6:00 PM Pacific from www.theparacast.com and will be available for on-demand listening and download after that. Once that show is aired, David will post the information he's referred to.

At this point, there have been a number of messages posted containing specific arguments against the reality of Meier's claims and photos and other material. Instead of asking me to apologize for telling you the truth, I suggest you read and respond to those messages.

 

[Tony]

I believe without a shadow of a doubt that Billy Meier's UFO contacts are real. The evidence to support this is overwhelming. I challenge anyone who says that they are not by explaining in a logical way how Billy predicted all these things totally correct which are listed here on this page of the Nexus magazine article on Billy Meier. Here is one of those predictions that Billy stated which turned out to be %100 correct.


? 215th Contact, February 28, 1987:
Known as the Henoch (or Enoch) Prophecies, this contact contained a forewarning of the destruction of the World Trade Center (WTC) by terrorism, the series of worldwide wars that the US would subsequently launch, and military actions involving Russia, China, France, Germany, Spain, England, Scandinavia and many Third World and other countries.

Corroborated: September 11, 2001, the WTC was destroyed; the United States has already attacked Afghanistan and Iraq as of the time of this writing.


http://nexusmagazine.com/articles/Henoch Prophecies.html


Please explain in a logical way how Billy was correct in all of those listed on that page and also explain why there is an Absence of Erroneous Prophetic Information too!

 

[Michael812]

The "meaningful way" to respond when you have made an error, or told a lie, is to say, "Michael, I apologize, I was mistaken. David did indeed tell you that he would send the material for your review back on June 30."

Then I, being the gentleman that I am, would say, "Apology accepted, thanks. Now let's move on."

That's how it's done...among honorable people...when someone makes a mistake.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

The "meaningful way" to respond when you have made an error, or told a lie, is to say, "Michael, I apologize, I was mistaken. David did indeed tell you that he would send the material for your review back on June 30."

Then I, being the gentleman that I am, would say, "Apology accepted, thanks. Now let's move on."

That's how it's done...among honorable people...when someone makes a mistake.

Let's try this again for one and all. You agreed to return to the show for another session with David present. During the show's taping, David stated that we would be putting up the material after the show.

Since you mention truth, do you deny that you received three files from David on June 30th, along with a preliminary analysis of what was wrong with the specific Meier photo in question? As to what David may or may not have sent me for my review, that has nothing to do with what is going to be posted here after the show or the full scope of his analysis. You claim he made promises that he simply did not make, so I'll simply refer you to my previous posts on the subject. His material will be posted here, period. Then you and others will have the opportunity to comment on the results.

But you already know what he is going to say, and you are pretty much aware of the content of his analysis, so let's not play any more games, shall we?

And please settle down with the accusations, or we'll simply reinstitute that ban.

 

[Michael812]

I received no files from DB, only his comments in emails. I sent him an additional photo, which also came back in one of my emails along with the one photo in question.

The email I copied from DB, when I corrected your accusation against me, speaks for itself. If there was something else intended by him he neither made it clear, nor sent anything like an analysis as he indicated in his email to me.

In this post he refers to a written analysis, which I was under the impression that he would be sending me:

"The specifics of my image analysis focus on the problems with the lack of light cast on the cars, ground and environment from the bright object supposedly in the same actual physical space, the lack of corresponding shadows, the light leakage along the bottom of the frame (the light shard showing up in front of the car tire, part of the foreground superimposed plate), the abrupt light effect edge along the side of the frame, the cloth-draped platform under the object revealed in a green channel analysis, and some other issues I found in looking at the LOW RES JPEG in Photoshop."

Since I am not, and never claimed to be, an expert in image analysis, it will be from the written analysis that I would have to respond. Since it wasn't provided, as I understood it would be by DB, I will have to review it when it's posted. Fine, it will simply take me longer to respond to it.

Again though, you are being needlessly and inaccurately defensive and accusatory. And you really should get over that threatening bit when someone holds you accountable for what you say and do...or don't do. I'm sure you're quite ready to hold me accountable for my comments on DB's analysis, the photo, etc. What's good enough for me is good enough for you. Fair enough?

 

[Tim]

DB,

You may have watched the movie but you didn't think about any of it, at least not on a logical level anyway.
Why did you lie? You lied that Billy Meier is pushing some new age religion. Do you know what a Religion is?
Encarta does and it'll tell you that religion is:
beliefs and worship: people's beliefs and opinions concerning the existence, nature, and worship of a deity or deities, and divine involvement in the universe and human life

I honestly can tell you, simply by reading your words that you really do not understand Meier's message when you said:
"All I have to do is consider the context of the way this stuff is presented - as it states on Mr. Horn's DVD (which I watched in it's entirety), this whole shebang is not about UFOs or extraterrestrials, it's about the philosophy and new-age religious content offered by Meier, complete with inferences that Meier is an incarnation of Jesus"
I'm not saying you have to agree with it, but geez no where does Billy or anyone related to FIGU request WORSHIP OF ANYTHING OR ANYONE...NOT EVEN CREATION!! But, you saw the DVD ... right. You looked at but didn't see, heard it but didn't listen, it bothered your brain but you didn't bother to ponder it.

You lied twice. Once about Billy Meier teaching religion and again by saying "that Meier is an incarnation of Jesus". No where did it ever say that Meier was an incarnation of Jesus. You lied! And that's all there is to it. Why would anyone else be inclined to trust your opinion and expertise on this matter, I have just given two reasons why not to.

Everyone is entitled to even the craziest of opinions. It is just up to these people to convince the ones around them, and the way it looks now, simply as an onlooker, the evidence against Horn is nill and Horn appears to have the upper hand. However, I am interested as always to hear new evidence that will support Meier's claims in the end, so have a go at it Biedney, we'll be listening.

I would also like to thank Gene, David and their webcrew who made and do maintain this site, it is easy to navigate and I enjoy the format of your broadcasts, so for this and despite my difference in opinion on the Meier Case I may become a regular listener.

Peace,
Tim

Peace,
Tim

 

[newinitiation]

G'day Tim

I cannot help but concede on one thing here Tim and that is that if wisdom dictates how the information from billy will be presented and therefore how it will in the end be received, we need to take into consideration the human psychological factors.
The information from billy is definitely out of this world and so it cannot be readily taken in, in an instant, which is why with all due consideration, we need to be a little more patient in how the ignorant masses will assimilate it.

This is not to say that we shouldn't defend erroneous accusations either, seeing as people are too quick to judge based on false information and what little they'd bothered to read without so much as thinking things through with some logic and common sense because they remain prejudicial without realizing that they are.

I just hope that although it's difficult at first to even fathom that such reality of ETs existing in this universe let alone an earth person having contact with them, against the backdrop of breathtaking advances in science, social trends, information in every field of endeavour and so forth, it should come as a sign to those whose minds haven't yet ventured beyond the boundaries to at least ponder the POSSIBILITIES, afterall this is paracast, where people should be a little bit more open minded than the next person on the streets.


Cheers

 

[TerraX]

Corroborated: September 11, 2001, the WTC was destroyed; the United States has already attacked Afghanistan and Iraq as of the time of this writing.
http://nexusmagazine.com/articles/Henoch Prophecies.html
Please explain in a logical way how Billy was correct in all of those listed on that page and also explain why there is an Absence of Erroneous Prophetic Information too!

Absence of erroneous prophetic information? The Henoch prophecies are littered with them. The only thing spot on was the WTC attacks if it wasn't added later on. The rest is an unlikely WW3 scenario where Russia invades Europe with many civil wars breaking out. Add a few natural catastrophies, note on the side that the church will fall and you have a fine Billy Meier propaganda piece.
How was Billy Meier correct on some items? I'm prophecising now but mostlikely it was just in the news at the time and he changed the date on the contact notes. Contact notes are written down and published after the alleged contact took place and Meier is in control of this, it's very easy to write up any date and noone can verify this. And voila, you have accurate information. Prophecies, as Quetzal mentions, are 'best guesses' anyway.

 

[TerraX]

I cannot help but concede on one thing here Tim and that is that if wisdom dictates how the information from billy will be presented and therefore how it will in the end be received, we need to take into consideration the human psychological factors.
The information from billy is definitely out of this world and so it cannot be readily taken in, in an instant, which is why with all due consideration, we need to be a little more patient in how the ignorant masses will assimilate it.

Hey Lee(?). What are you doing here man? Nevermind, I saw that Michael Horn enlisted help on the FIGU board and sure enough some people showed. Psychological factors, right. ;D

 

[Tim]

You got it Newinitiation!!

It needed said regardless. If one is relaxed on these matters than the possibility exists that people will percieve this material as not pertinant and may be stored in the "look at later" file of the brain. But, the converse can as easily be stated, because if one goes full-force and pushes their way in ie the prophetic info etc. than people will ignore. I try to push hard but not issue a wimpy blow. It's simply balance and it has been taught in the chinese cultures as YIN and YANG or in Meier's material as an equilibrium of positive/negative, neutral/positive of the human spirit.

DB,

I remembered something I needed to ask you if you would be so kind to drop a note. Are you overwhelmed at Horns statements that most alleged ET abduction stories are false and most contact and sighting cases are almost 100% terrestrial craft? I mean is it really that suprising? I would also like to add another "examination contact case" to the list of authenticated cases another being the Betty and Barny Hill case, it was real!
I was also wondering when a few people agreed on this forum who said something to this nature... there may be some core to the Meier contacts that was truth like maybe there was a real contact but that somehow the nature of the whole thing got out of hand.
What the hell is that supposed to mean? Yeah let me tell you, Billy took 4 genuine crystal clear photos of Extraterrestrial craft but he figured these weren't enough so he fabricates the 1,196 other photographs because it will make him money? Are you F$#%@^&G kidding me. This is what is laughable. This case is either 100% true or 100% false there is no in between here everyone.

Salome and Good Day all, ;D
Tim

 

[Mark Campbell]

David Biedney ;

You described Billy Meier and the FIGU as : " ....strange folks who are proving to be delusional at best, unscrupulous at worst."

I will make this challenge to you , so that you will know what it means to attack the character of a group of reasonable , intelligent , brave , guileless and honest people . I have been to the Center is Switzerland , and they do not deserve your inexperienced impudence regarding them .
I personally know them all .

My Challenge .
Get on a plane and visit them . Until you do that , you have no real impression of them as people . You can't know them by looking at videos and photographs . And yet you cast derougatory judgements against them .
I know this about them : Not one of them would offer an unkind word about you , especially having not met you . They are all well mannered
and cultured people who know what it means to stand up and serve what deserves to be known , and what it means to be hated for no good reason .

They are from a peaceful country , and if you are American , you and I are not . That would make me the kind of person who when meeting me , you might notice that the kind of venerability that I offer on this forum might be absent .
So if you make further negative judgements about them and you don't get on that plane , consider my judgement of you as a complete coward to be direct , fully credited and just , because I don't have to get on a plane to meet you to now that :

The only people worth meeting , I've already met them .

the tough word from : Mark Campbell

 

[Mark Campbell]

Correcting my typo :

( to David Biedney)
So if you make further negative judgements about them and you don't get on that plane , consider my judgement of you as a complete coward to be direct , fully credited and just , because I don't have to get on a plane to meet you to know that :

The only people worth meeting , I've already met them .

the tough word from : Mark Campbell

 

[Hector]

The Billy Meier case is simply the most documented,the most accurate and the most valuable contactee case in UFO history.No one can refute that.And if he dares,he will get a clear defeat.

60 years of research,including learning ALL religions and eastern traditions,inmense astronomic knowledge for a swiss farmer,inmense spirtual knowledge (or an incredible impressive novelist),no desire for profit(george lucas came to him to sign a contract for a movie script,but Meier refused,imagine the money Lucas offered to him),exclusive dedication (Meier has no holidays),feedback(Meier answers questions sent to him via his figu forum).

What can you argue to present the case as false? The same thing as usual,alleged evidences that dont prove anything such as "old" photos, allegedly manipulated prophecies,"bad quality" videos....

The thing is if somebody wants recognition as UFO researcher,he wont match Billys work even at 10%.That generates to much ENVY.A F***ING SWISS FARMER CANT BE N?1.......that`s the point.But who you want as N?1? Alex Collier? Michael Salla? Steven Greer? HAHAHAHAHHAHA...NICE JOKE....Those peoples are just here for RECOGNITION.Meier aim is to instruct,to inform,to show you a better way.There`s a lot of differences in there.Yeah,with todays deterministic,evidence hungry validation,Meier is crap.Then you lose your opportunity to grasp immense information because you just concentrate on the flaws of the case.

ANY CASE IS FLAWED,GUYS.Concentrate in extracting the juice of the fruit.

The Meier Case could be then compared to a water melon.

On the contrary,Collier and many others would be compared to a little grape.

See ya

 

[Kingman]

DB,
I'll be surprised if the program later today comes off as a worthwhile and informative interview for anyone who listens, and hasn't been exposed to the really immature and downright ridicules 'attack the messenger' exchange. The thought that this kind of style is a healthy formula for a growing show is faulty. At best you'll appease your sidekick player haters that like the attack style( so they to can get in on the cheap worthless shots) but that will be such a tiny fraction of the listeners here.

Understand that people( other than you DB) will go and check the sites that are linked to the information, and they won't swallow your suggestions of what the truth of Billy's story is. And when they begin to put their logic with the seriously massive, unreproducible facts in a comprehendible capsulated memory bank real thinkers use, and then hear the abusive, uncalled for detracting attempts at a discussion, these listeners will quite easily tag this broadcast as an agenda laden promotion that cares not of the REAL truth.

How hard could READING the Billy Meier information be. The amount( and this is so far from being an exaggerated statement) of VERIFIABLE info is so vast, and the fact that you stall on a few( arguably ) difficult items and insist on these hard to clarify facts as being the only thing one needs to understand or claim a position on the story, tells me your a one trick pony. This kind of research is utterly worthless and will surely label you as a an uniformed opinionated attack hound. People, believe it or not, do think for themselves. If you can create a pleasant, inviting environment for the discussion, you can only win for yourself (credibility) and for the show itself.

Let's stop kidding yourself, the level of Billy's information is so intense that if you deny what the reality of it all (ALL!) added up says( TRUTH! ) your credibility as a true seeker of knowledge will droop to the floor. Step back and realize your listeners are going to think. They hear all this controversy, and trust me on this one, they will decide what to believe on their own. It's already been extremely obvious, you are prepared ( from my experience) to maintain your position with vehemence. The prejudice that flows like venom from your statements regarding MH this and MH that, paints you as a weak, investigative explorer who's only tools are the broken record-like style demands for these seemingly questionable fragments of the big picture. To move past these pieces, which from day one have added lots of tough discussion to Billy's case, and tackle the numerous volumes of the more definitive information you know is stacked against your claims of a hoax, is your biggest nightmare. Your only hope is....there is no hope for your belief of a hoax. If you did any research on Billy's case at all it would ruin all that you cling to in your uninformed denial.

The real facts have held up since the beginning. Any pathetic attempts at an unprofessional interview will speak volumes of any integrity you may have left in you. Now more than ever the people of our planet deserve the true facts so they can make up their own minds of what to believe. To purposely block the truth of what is in Billy's story is a attack on the future health and livability of our planet. When we come together as a caring society we can begin to truly grow even greater in our reaches. To be a part of those who are determined to destroy the hopes our future generations is a very sad part one plays for themselves.

If Billy's story is a fake(it's not ) it could hardly do any damage to society as a whole. If on the other hand it's true ( it most definitely is ) the incredible benefits that mankind will begin to enjoy are staggering. To place yourself between the future of man's greater destiny and the desire to want to destroy this truth can only be understood as ....what? Tell me what makes your need to crush this incredible reality so strong.

 

[TerraX]

This case is either 100% true or 100% false there is no in between here everyone. Tim

Bull**** Tim. Normally things aren't as black and white as you just pretend them to be, they're made up off shades of grey. Forcing a verdict like this where you have to make a choice is primarely done by the likes of you to gain a tactical advantage because if a person would say it is false then you start to present your evidence and the other has to proof it wrong. And if one item is proven right, does that mean everything in the case is proven as a fact? No it is not, and pretending that it is, is downright dangerous and unwise.
If Meier pictures turn out to be genuine then that supports the notion that he has a contact case. It doesn't automatically prove everything spoken by him is fact or that for instance the TJ is an established fact or that the reincarnation claims are true. Many layers of what could be the truth are still obscured. Don't even pretend that you factually know them to be the truth because you simply don't. If you would really objectively analise the case then you would have to say it's (e.g.) 20% true and 80% unknown. Maybe this surprises you and the other Meier supporters but I voted 'not sure' in the poll. My take on the case is something like this, 20% true, 30% unknown and 50% false.
Don't get me started on Meier's comments on other cases Tim. I know for a fact Meier is lying.

 

[TerraX]

The Billy Meier case is simply the most documented,the most accurate and the most valuable contactee case in UFO history.No one can refute that.And if he dares,he will get a clear defeat.

Really Hector? With all the missing original negatives, missing original films, missing TJ - translationnotes - keywitness, missing metalsamples and other missing original documents such as the alleged 1950s prophetic warnings to governments, I beg to differ. Besides didn't Meier himself and Ptaah comment on that his material was falsified by a photoshop employee?

SIGHTINGS:

"Furthermore, "Ptaah" reveals that nearly all the pictures of the first period of Meier's "contacts" are frauds because cameraman S. handed the films over to "Men In Black" who replaced them with prepared films showing the hoaxes we all know!"

So Ptaah states that Meier pictures were falsified by other parties. So basicly if you take Ptaah's word for it, then you don't have genuine photographs but FRAUDS...................right? Or does this causes to much mental constipation? You staunch Meier supporters trip on your own fantastic claims, that's for sure.

 

[Hector]

Of course Asket and Nera photos are not real.Meier admitted that they were falsified.Because of that falsification he would get much discredit and debunking.Where are the samples,were are the originals?Good question.

Yeah,Meier has no backing evidence for those originals being lost,and he explains why.In the case you are skeptic you instantly put the Meier material into the garbage.You are legitimated to do so,because you need hard worked evidences to consider a contactee real contactee.

But who has such irrefutable truths and evidences among the UFO community?Nobody.

No contactee can prove being autentic more than a ridiculous 10%.Any clue or information missing to me is welcomed.

Is the man called "Viktor" who sold that alien area 51 video to Rocket Pictures the most autentic UFO researcher in history?(there we see a "real alien" being tortured and filmed by scientists).

Have you researched if Meier is in line with Quantum Mechanics,with Relativity,with Atomic configuration,with paranormal sciences,with Darwin evolution theory,with archeology? i`ve done that homework.It`s all connected.Have you ever heard of Rupert Sheldrake revolutionary morphic fields? It supports Meier.Another " revolutionary" concept,such as "the holographic universe" ,by David Bohm,quantum physicist,is also supported by Meier.Alain Aspect experiments,proving that there are particles that travel faster than light(being conciousness the fastest),are also supported by Meier.Astronomic measurements have been supported by Meier.History events have been more or less accurate predicted by Meier.

Yes,to compare and research all that stuff takes time,and needs to give Meier a second opportunity.Its in this second opportunity when you get the real answers:

HOW THE HELL CAN THIS F***ING SWISS FARMER BE informed of such revolutionary concepts and history events? (Law of probability? )

Yes,i am a supporter of the case.Somebody told me to tell my opinion here,but i dont want to brainwash anybody.

Cheers.

 

[Aspie]

UFO on a string?

Michael Horn: NO it's not, it's real, replicate it!!!

http://www.steelmarkonline.com/media/06-12-75_Tree_Circling_Ship_Near_Hinwil_(Low-Res).mpg

 

[David Biedny]

Oy...

So Shawn King - I'd be surprised if this is the Shawn King from the Your Mac Life show, which I enjoy and used to do a segment for - has dubbed me an "uniformed opinionated attack hound". If anyone listens to the archived Paracast shows, surely you can reach your own conclusions about who I am and what my motivations are. I'm not preaching a damn thing, and will consider any and all cases and opinions. But my conclusions are just that, you don't have to accept them or believe them. Freedom is a great thing.

The only question I have for the other Figu folks who are chiming in here - do all of you pay 7% of your income to the Figu organization, a requirement stated in the membership forms?

Oh, and the mention of George Lucas offering Meier money for a script - anyone who personally knows or has worked for George, as I have, would laugh out loud at the thought of him going to someone to offer them money for a script. So not the way he does business, it's a ridiculous suggestion. The one movie he directed that he didn't write - Howard the Duck - well, that's all I need to say about that.

For the record, if I ever find myself in Switzerland, I'd be more than happy to visit with Meier and the Figu folks, really. I find that the eyes are indeed the windows to the soul, and looking into Meier's eyes would tell me much about who he is and what he's about. It would be great if I could study the original negatives of the pictures, speak with the other witnesses, visit the local police and authorities and get their take, and so forth. I have to tell you, though, if I had funding for a research trip, I'd probably sooner go to Mexico City to look at the amazing UFO flap that has happened there in the last 15 years, or Brazil to look into the Arigo case.

Everyone can believe whatever they want for any reason, that's a funny and consistent thing about us human beings. Our imaginations are vast, our desire for understanding a driving force in our lives, and we all want things to work out in the end.

 

[David Biedny]

Tim...

Tim makes this statement:

"Are you overwhelmed at Horns statements that most alleged ET abduction stories are false and most contact and sighting cases are almost 100% terrestrial craft? I mean is it really that suprising?"

Listen to episode #5 of The Paracast. My brother & I describe one of our UFO sightings at length. I don't need anyone's opinion to know that what I saw that day, along with a boatload of other people, was definitively NOT the product of current human technology. As I state in the episode, I don't definitively know it was from another planet, another dimension or the future, but it was NOT some secret military craft. And this was not the first, nor last time I ever saw a UFO. My experiences have driven me to want to understand the truth of the paranormal realm, at least as much as I possibly can. I don't subscribe to any one religious, philosophical or spiritual system, and I certainly don't believe that any one human holds the answers to the truth of the human condition. I don't claim to have all the answers, and I encourage everyone to think for themselves. A mind is a terrible thing to waste.