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Michael Horn & The Billy Meier Contacts

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Do you believe the Billy Meier Contacts and Evidence Are Real?

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  • No

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  • Not Sure

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  • I don't give a damn!

    Votes: 1 100.0%
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Wow! It's great to read that people are spending time discussing the Billy Meier story. I'll have to go back and read all the prior posts and get up to speed with what the issues are.

I've only had a chance to listen to the broadcast once and I can tell you've got what appears to be a great program/format. I appreciate how you were allowing the guest to articulate in a manner that is pleasant for myself who usually works while listening. I now have another place to inform my pesky friends to check when they ask me where I get all my details on the subjects we get into.

Thanks again for your program!

Shawn King
 
Hello everyone! I'm friendly a friendly guy who heard about this information a good 10 years ago and heard Michal Horn's interview.

This is basically directed towards David Biedney but not excluding Gene Steinberg,

Here are some things you said David and I would just like to reply:

1 ?Demanding I produce exact sounds and photos is silly,
it's like telling me that if I want to believe in God,
I have to provide evidence that there is such a thing
as God.?
Yes, that is sort of like the idea, your catching on. Proof has precedence here. We should apply these same standards to religion, politics and governmental decisions that determine the quality of our lives.
2 ?As to the your claimed statements by Mr. Gentleman, I
would point out that the last movie he worked in is
over 25 years old, he's not even in the credits of
2001. You want to show the world a signed, notarized
letter from Volker Engel, to the effect that he says
your footage is not faked? I'd love to see it.?

Lets see if this is possible but I think you are skipping around the heavy evidence and focus on the areas which he already claims he still questions, which seems to show impatience on your part to simply ?as quick as possible label this Case inept, unworthy and a scam, all without any evidence? and on Michael's end he appears to hold up quite strong and clearly and openly deals with what claims to be provable beyond a reasonable doubt. I raise the bar to you talk show hosts and studio specialists which you have claimed to be, let's see strong proof ?beyond a reasonable doubt? and scientifically tested to the same measurements and standards that Meiers were. Let's not repeat another James Randi here, let's honestly look at the evidence and not simply call this one out without any real proof to back it up.
3 Show us some clear, current (or even old)footage of the claimed ETs GETTING OFF A SHIP AFTER IT
LANDS. No cuts, no multiple cameras, just a long shot
of the ship landing, and someone getting out of it.
That's all.

If you listened to Mr. Horn or read even a snippet of the mini-library of information that is involved in the Meier material, or simply thought rationally about this than you would have definitely noticed that a picture of the ET's is not only outside of the scope of the Meier contacts objective and unnecessary on numerous levels. This is not to slip past your somewhat reasonable demand for a picture, but, to understand a broader view that Meier's clear daytime and night photographs that were scientifically tested and passed, are only in existence in order to to provoke, instigate and open minds that we are not the only rational thinking beings in this universe and importantly that it's not about ?them? but about us. However, I do like the prospect of seeing a picture as you requested, interestingly enough the goal of the Meier contacts is for us humans to clean up our thoughts and begin to think logically for ourselves so that one day we can be self sustaining, logical and reasonable so as to handle the variety and multitude of alien lifeforms, human and non-human with maturity so that we do not become victims of an Outside invasion or even more likely an inside destruction!. Finally, a picture of them could provide some temporary ?appeasement? for this case, however it would take people away from what Meier and Co. think is the necessary focal point and would add a thousand unessesary questions to follow, (from his perspective). And obviously many would consider them fakes without ANY scientific testing which has been committed routinely against Billy Meier, Horn, but few will realize that they are but a small part of the huge truth explained through the English and German spiritual teachings, and any other person who seems to have found and backed the logical, strait forward evidence with complete disregard to the ?higher standard of proof? namely the prophetic evidence, which I watched an incident regarding the nuclear powerplant in Lyon France unfold as it was said it would be in 2003 when the book ?And yet... they fly? by Guido Moosbrugger was published in 2001 and I had it in my possesion at a provable 2 years beforehand!! As equally as important a nice picture of the plejaren would take the focus off the real intent of Billy/ Plejarens? message from the world view perspective of how we interact and treat neighboring states such as our horrendous disregard to the golden rule and put our energy on the Plejaren themselves, which a certain level should be placed, but, according to the Meier information our purpose and the entire message of the Plejaren provided through Billy is to clean up our thoughts and actions and only by doing this can we even realistically attempt and to ACTUALLY OBTAIN less warlike civilizations and create a more peaceful tomorrow. If you've come this far your intelligent enough to handle the Meier material! Considering over 1,200 photographs from which we already do have evidence for which were taken at a time BEFORE PC?S AND DIGITAL CAMERA?S & PHOTOSHOP, I ask you how do you fake pictures in deep valleys which were analyzed and found to have the approximation in size that Meier claimed somewhere around (on specific craft) 24 FEET NOT INCHES and found to have definite contour, shape and even an extra emitting energy as visualized in the film analysis by Jim Delatossa, Wendell Stevens and Brit and Lee Elders (still unexplainable to this day) as also witnessed in the film segments a strange energy emitted as the object disappears and then reappears again. And as explained by Meier AND EVEN NEIGHBORS WHO PHOTOGRAPHED THESE CRAFTS, POLICE WITNESSED THEM AND EVEN THE SWISS MILITARY REPORTED OVER 200 UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS OVER MEIER?S RESIDENCE.
NO, I repeat NO strings or fabrication evidence was found by the American crew or any other serious or comprehensive investigation which put up $100,000 of their own cash to INVESTIGATE this case. Kal Korfs book was virtually refuted. He admitted to being a liar as Horn can explain and is, in detail line by line refuted here: www.figu.org then go to ENGLISH / THEN GO TO SUPPORTERS/ THEN YOUR HOME
us/ figu/ supporter/ deardorff.htm
A link here explains how KKK falsified in ?Spaceships of the Pleiades? some pieces of Meiers material with similar claims not backed up by accurate scientific data . Did W Stevens and Co do all this research to see such a meager and measilly if any at all monitary return, and to be horrendously labeled swindlers and liars, what kind of buisness investment is that? Perhaps the American investigation team couldn't get any real media to back this case because of what it would mean for our civilization if we were to do this. What investments in Politics, money made from interest and from drug trade, not to mention world-wide religions that would have to modify their perspectives on life and REFLECT exactly what it means when an ironclad foundation of proof is laid in logical timeline of evidence where a Swiss man is contacted by human extra-terrestrials and these beings do not bang their heads on the wall in Jerusalem nor Praise the man we know as Jesus (where we worship ?blindly? with no substantial evidence) or execute murderous acts against mankind in the name of some Allah with no all encompassing reason why. The picture of the Plejaren was requested by others and Meier himself but was not allowed because people would take the focus away from the spiritual information and WORSHIP, FEAR, ATTACH FANTASIES OR FALL IN LOVE WITH THE PLEJAREN.

www.figu.org

Peace,
Tim
 
While I await DB's posting of his analysis/images, which he said he would send me as far back as June 30 but still hasn't, I'll only point out a couple of additional things, as I think that Tim makes many of the necessary points.

1. When DB said, "You want to prove to the world that Meier is telling the truth? Show us some clear, current (or even old) footage of the claimed ETs GETTING OFF A SHIP AFTER IT LANDS. No cuts, no multiple cameras, just a long shot of the ship landing, and someone getting out of it. That's all. Show me this and I'll apologize. I promise.? I told him at the end of show 2, as well as in several subsequent emails, that we had that - with the exception of Meier getting out of the craft. I gave him the link to where Deardorff presents an analysis of several frames of the film that shows the ship doing what no model could have done (The Bachtelhörnli-Unterbachtel movie film). DB has yet to even respond to the information I sent him...let alone apologize - for anything, including his unsubstantiated attacks on the people involved in the Meier case.

Why did he ask for evidence that he refuses to acknowledge or examine?

Further, I told him that we had a film with a UFO floating in the sky...where Meier walks into the scene with the UFO HOVERING ABOVE HIM, as well as another clip where there are three UFOs hovering ovre a valley, in clear view, when two of them simply disappear, plus several other clear, daylight films of the UFOs. DB has yet to even respond to the information I sent him.

Not exactly what I would call expressions of sincerity, let alone open-mindedness.

2. DB claimed that the sounds of the UFOs, recorded on four separate occasions by Meier and his wife, in front of as many as 17 witnesses, were ?...(a blatant use of vintage analog synthesizers, any true audio expert recognizes analog oscillators, filters and delays, it just so happens that I'm an _experienced_ synth guy)?. When asked to prove it, DB gave his characteristic refusal. I think that it's clear that the unsubstnatiated claims, presented by DB as statements of fact, not opinions, is rather damning of his own credibility, not Meier's.

So yes, for DB, and any other persons floating their unsubstantited theories as to how Meier "faked" all of the physical evidence (let alone the prophecies), PROOF is absolutely required and one way to do that is to DUPLICATE the evidence that YOU are claiming is hoaxed...despite the numerous scientific experts who have already authenticated it.
 
Michael812 said:
While I await DB's posting of his analysis/images, which he said he would send me as far back as June 30 but still hasn't, I'll only point out a couple of additional things, as I think that Tim makes many of the necessary points
Click to expand...

Please don't mislead the people who read these messages. You were specifically told that David would post relevant information about his analysis after the June 11th episode of The Paracast. That should happen within a day or two, depending on the time it takes to put everything here. Then you can respond -- if you dare!
 
It's more than a little tiresome to be accused of lying. You put me in the position of having to refute your statements and to show the bullying around here that is being done by you guys.

Please note the following and, after you do, please post your APOLOGY to me, right here on this forum:

From: dbiedny@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: Take a pill
Date: June 30, 2006 8:01:59 AM PDT
To: michael@theyfly.com
Cc: gene@macnightowl.com

Michael,

I am making no threats. I am stating that I have I
have revealed, through my extensive image processing
talents, that the referenced photograph is a faked
double exposure. You have challenged me to reveal or
duplicate a faked photo, and I have successfully
dissected and deconstructed one of your claimed pieces
of evidence. You can debate my findings if you are
brave enough, though the facts are pretty clear. As I
said, I'll send you the images which clearly show the
image is a double exposure. Or will your schedule for
later today now mysteriously become very busy? Who
will reveal themselves to be a coward today, Michael?

Sincerely,

dB
 
Michael812 said:
It's more than a little tiresome to be accused of lying. You put me in the position of having to refute your statements and to show the bullying around here that is being done by you guys.

Please note the following and, after you do, please post your APOLOGY to me, right here on this forum:
Click to expand...

And you are also aware that David discusses the entire matter during the radio interview. Please don't deny the facts here, OK?

Before you tell anyone else anything about this matter, kindly await the broadcast and give Dave sufficient time to post the photos and detail his findings in this forum. Then we can talk in a meaningful fashion about it. Until then, maybe you should respond to the other messages posted here about you.
 
Further, two quick excerpts where, in the same cocky, bullying and incorrect attitude, DB asserts that I'm wrong about where the photos in question were taken. If you really want copies of the entire emails, I'll gladly oblige but first let me add that DB was, once again COMPLETELY WRONG, as I provided him with photos to so establish.

DB: "Are you claiming that the building in this daylight
photo is the same as the one in the night shot?

They are obviously different - look at the windows and
roof height. The daytime shot building has two floors
and an attic floor. The night building has a single
ground floor and attic floor. There is absolutely no
problem seeing that these are two completely different
structures."

DB: "Sorry, those are not the same buildings. Painfully
obvious, nothing to prove there. If you ignore what is
an obvious visual distinction between two buildings
you claim are the same, it's silly to offer up
pictures of "the property". Which should I believe
that there is ANY consistency in your story? You can't
prove WHERE these images were shot. I, on the other
hand, can prove that this is an optical composite,
regardless of location."
 
Well I went back and read about half of the posts in this topic. I just couldn't get myself to endure the torture of reading all the non-information that is being catapulted at MH. Talk about being ganged up on.

I am curious about your broadcast beyond the one I've heard. Is the position to be the hardline devils advocate against a guest speaker another formula for the program, or am I just witnessing this here in the forum and it's just this case that is enduring it. This here does not correspond to what I heard( and enjoyed) from the show. I can sense a attitude of hostility directed at MH and I can't quite equate any compelling reason for this. I guess I should ask if either David Biedny or his partner if they have any scientific backgrounds in these particular fields that the Meiers story is based on. I apologize if you posted them and they're in the thread. Because if they do, and they are applying it to what MH is offering as proof, then I can understand why there might be some heat directed at MH.

I first came across the Billy story many years back. I had come across it right after I had finished researching the Adamski story. My thinking at that moment when I started looking at the Billy evidence was tainted from the bad taste the Adamski story left with me. So I immediately saw this Billy character as another duplicate of Adamski. I wasn't hard for me to quickly see that Billy's was a hoax as well then.
It must be at least 10-12yrs from that original point of not seeing the reality of the information I so hastily disregarded. I did a full circle of all the other claimed contact stories and Roswell events and such, and reread the Billy material. I found out something quite simple about the UFO information realm.

Being that I had covered so much of what was available on UFO's, I stopped and realized that I had to have looked at real evidence and discredited it because of some element that left a question mark in my logical process. I was doing this to all the information I searched, if it had some part that was not verifiable or had a shaky person behind it or even if it didn't look right, it went into the 'not useable file'. Everything ended up in it. So I said to myself " Self, you've obviously throw out the baby with the bath water". I thought, how could I pass by what was obviously real info? Similarities of cases were the culprits. Many case's that are patently fake, are designed to mimic real events. The disinfo was working on me.

I felt pretty deflated as a sleuth not seeing the clues imbedded amongst all the noise. I was fortunate to return to the different case studies and begin sifting back through and came back to reread the Billy story and this time go all the way to as far as what was available to me. There turned out to be a mountain of data that had been professionally analyzed and was waiting to offer me a chance to come to a conclusion I could call my own. There was plenty to question individually, as far as pieces of facts were concerned, that I couldn't call as reliable witnesses for my conclusion. I realized that had to be inevitable considering the enormity of the evidence.

I still have to maintain a vigil on the facts that I see as extremely important to the finding of UFO's being very real, and that the true reality and exciting elements aren't the technology that enables these visitors to reach our planet, it's the message they bring from a society that actually cares about people. We need to explore the wisdom these intelligently guided beings offer to us in hopes we can create a world better by design and correct ideals of what nature intended. We are such a radically divided world it's clear we are headed for a world endangering showdown that appears will be a planet wide catastrophe.

I know it takes quite a bit of your time going through the Billy material, but in about a couple months when your nearing the end of the available English info, there's 10 times more you can translate in German!. Some of it is being converted constantly so there's always new stuff coming up.

I think if a different approach could be found for the discussion with MH, you could really get caught up with the parts that do make sense and create a center for valued discourse.

Shawn King
 
Please stop misleading people, we're not idiots. I simply mentioned, and provided proof, that DB was going to present his images/analysis to me as far back as June 30 so that I could consider my repsonse to them in a timely manner. He didin't do it. I've discussed nothing of the content so please stop trying to confuse the issue.

BTW, since you had banned me from the forum for "infalmmatory" content, in a manner similar to the old schoolyard bully who would get his friends to hold your arms so he could take some undefended shots against you, you likewise allowed and encouraged a bunch of cheap shots from a number of people here. Well, surprise, I have no need to answer any of them, I'll answer DB's analysis when it's posted. But I will answer you this, you have a hell of a lot to learn about integrity and credibility. And we'll let the people who read this site come to their own conclusions about me and the Meier case.

Now, if posting the truth is too inflammatory for you, then by all means see to it that only vicious attacks agianst the case are allowed.
 
Michael812 said:
Please stop misleading people, we're not idiots. I simply mentioned, and provided proof, that DB was going to present his images/analysis to me as far back as June 30 so that I could consider my repsonse to them in a timely manner. He didin't do it. I've discussed nothing of the content so please stop trying to confuse the issue.

BTW, since you had banned me from the forum for "infalmmatory" content, in a manner similar to the old schoolyard bully who would get his friends to hold your arms so he could take some undefended shots against you, you likewise allowed and encouraged a bunch of cheap shots from a number of people here. Well, surprise, I have no need to answer any of them, I'll answer DB's analysis when it's posted. But I will answer you this, you have a hell of a lot to learn about integrity and credibility. And we'll let the people who read this site come to their own conclusions about me and the Meier case.

Now, if posting the truth is too inflammatory for you, then by all means see to it that only vicious attacks agianst the case are allowed.
Click to expand...

You do recall taping an episode of The Paracast for broadcast on July 11th, right? OK, after that broadcast, folks here are free to judge for themselves. As to David's qualifications, check his biography at www.theparacast.com, and perform a Google search on him.
 
Let's be clear:

- The specifics of my image analysis focus on the problems with the lack of light cast on the cars, ground and environment from the bright object supposedly in the same actual physical space, the lack of corresponding shadows, the light leakage along the bottom of the frame (the light shard showing up in front of the car tire, part of the foreground superimposed plate), the abrupt light effect edge along the side of the frame, the cloth-draped platform under the object revealed in a green channel analysis, and some other issues I found in looking at the LOW RES JPEG in Photoshop. It's not like Michael will actually acknowledge my results when I post them - the many problems that others have found with many of the images (there are links on this thread to some excellent image/perspective/scale analysis work performed by others) have been ignored or discredited by Mr. Horn at every turn. I have no doubt the same will happen to WHATEVER I post, as has been the case thus far. Mr. Horn has far too much vested in keeping this situation hazy, and stirring controversy, as it helps sales of his Meier related products.

There are so many issues that are clearly visible in other images - look at the reflections of the lights in the night "wedding cake" shots on the balls on the ship model, which are a dead giveaway of a staged shoot with miniatures, or the reflection of the closeup camera lens on the daytime shot of the same model (not to mention the contrast problems, or the obvious sagging and imperfections in the "perfect" "beam ship" model). It does NOT take a photographic expert to know what they are seeing, it just takes some basic common sense and minimal photographic experience (as it turns out, I have significant knowledge of visual effects, photography, and deep analog and digital image processing experience, so I'm better equipped than many to look at an image critically, and that's backed up by my credentials and reputation). Michael Horn will NEVER address these issues head on, he'll simply state that someone else says that they're real - I can make a lot of wacky claims - I'm a better guitar player than Clapton - and even give you all a couple of names of people who will back me up. If I say it's up to you to prove this is not true, have a good time trying. Michael refuses to provide any type of actual hard proof of third party testimony, so he can proclaim that "X said Y" until he turns blue. It means nothing. I looked at the stills of the video that Michael claims fulfill my specification for credible video evidence, and sorry, it's just some more crude imagery that don't show anything in a clear or significant way.

- The tactics deployed by Mr. Horn against anyone questioning this case are predictable, and fairly simplistic, such as the double-negative conundrum, the reverse logic, answering a question with a question, avoiding direct queries, demanding the exact recreation of a specifically fabricated image, misquotes and deflecting responsibility for sourcing references (the whole Vogel patent issue), lack of substantiation of witness testimony, the list goes on and on. Images that are clearly ridiculous - the dinosaur stuff, the images shot off of TV of the claimed aliens - are first offered as evidence, and upon detection, then claimed as being tampered by mysterious MIBs. There is no substantial accountability with anyone outside of the inner circle, simply a demand for refuting evidence, a defensive tone, and not a whole lot more. No matter what I say or demonstrate, Mr. Horn - and now "Tim" - will find something to latch onto and beat to death. All I have to do is consider the context of the way this stuff is presented - as it states on Mr. Horn's DVD (which I watched in it's entirety), this whole shebang is not about UFOs or extraterrestrials, it's about the philosophy and new-age religious content offered by Meier, complete with inferences that Meier is an incarnation of Jesus, and an entire story to replace any existing Christian belief system. Sorry, I don't buy it. I've looked over a good amount of the "evidence", and I think it's junk.

Any reasonably aware and intelligent person can see right through this sham, at it's face, and you can quote me on that.

I really don't care what Mr. Horn thinks about my opinions. Call that a cruel statement, but that's the fact. I don't really feel that I have to prove anything to our listeners, as I've said, I'm not a UFO researcher, I'm a technologist with a deep interest in many aspects of the paranormal and a desire to understand the truth of what this stuff is all about. In a lifetime of experiences and learning, every instinct I possess tells me that the Meier case is an overall hoax - and I'll add, like Gene has stated, I don't rule out the possibility that Meier has had genuine UFO sightings, I would even echo the sentiment made by others that the earlier images were more convincing than the later offerings.

I do know that the vast majority of credible UFO researchers feel that this Meier stuff is blech, and I have to agree with them. Their conclusions are public record, and entirely reasonable, regardless of Mr. Horn's claims to the contrary.

Michael, if you don't like my words, you can rant and attack me all you want, but it doesn't change my opinion one bit. I'm not accountable to you, you are someone who has been on The Paracast and you've made for an interesting time, but I will not respond to your demands and play your little game. And I will not indulge your desire for attention one more bit after the show tomorrow, I have much more interesting, compelling and productive endeavors to attend to, thank goodness.

dB
 
Gene,

Did I miss your apology for misrepresenting what I said and the for the evidence I posted of DB's promise that I would indeed receive that information?

And a thank you to Kingman for being another person who has actually thought his way through the vast amount of available information in the Meier case. That being said, watch out for the small minded who would level ad hominum attacks against you for having the courage to do so...since they have absolutely nothing else of value to contribute to the conversation. The technique is then that the moderator will actually accuse the one who is attacked of being guilty of "inflammatory content". It's pretty funny, you might even find a little evidence of it where without looking too hard.

Did anyone else notice that DB STILL hasn't acknowledged the exitence of the video he personally requested, or provided the proof that Meier must have had a moog synthesizer that he plugged into a cow, or even that DB was wrong about the house in the photos?

And did I mention that ANOTHER special effects expert/film maker (with 50 years in the business) - who is actually a skeptic! - admitted in all candor that the WCUFO video is NOT employing models of any kind, and that while he doesn't know WHAT it is, it IS a full-sized, real object a considerable distance from the camera. Gosh, and all that talk about models and miniatures from our, ahem, "image expert".

P.S. Look ut, I'll be accused of being Tim next!
 
No Apologies

Michael,

There will be no apologies made to you for any of this interaction, and you were banned for exactly the nasty tone you're adopting yet again. But we'll let you have your say, I'm sure that's what our listeners would want.

Everything else was covered in the other message.

dB
 
Oh, and...

Any of the expert witnesses that Mr. Horn cites are free to post on this forum. I'm sure that they all have email and web access, at least the live ones, and an interest in seeing that they are being properly quoted and referenced. That includes the Figu spokesperson who can confirm Mr. Horn's status as their authorized US representative. We've requested this, and have yet to get an official response.

dB
 
DB,
This last post isn't your analysis we've been waiting for is it? I only ask because I understood by the requests posted that you didn't want MH pokin his nose at it till after the 11th show and I can't be sure if this is a quick description or just general pre-program info.

Thanks!

Shawn King
 
Gene,

Your statement, "Please don't mislead the people who read these messages. You were specifically told that David would post relevant information about his analysis after the June 11th episode of The Paracast." is effectively, again, calling me a liar. What kind of tone would you adopt with someone who falsely accuses you of lying and then, when you present the ironclad proof, they refuse to act with integrity - like a man, like any decent person should - and apologize?

Kind of similar to the way you guys are in denial about the Meier case itself, which you think allows you to be abusive without accountability. And isn't it funny that, with all the posturing and innuendo about me not "really" being the authorized rep, it's been sitting there right in front of your faces all along? Wow, what great "researchers" we have here!

And did I miss DB asking to see the video that he requested? Or letting us know when he was going to plug his moog into a cow or tree to back up his claim about the sounds, or did he mention that he was wrong about the location in the photo, I mean, am I just not getting those messages? And did DB miss the rather lengthy documentation of the already published experts who authenticated the case?

I guess nasty or angry tone simply means that your feet are being held to the fire and you can't take the heat. I've authored no ad hominum attacks, read all my posts, I've simply been the teflon target of them.
 
The subgenius site is what it talks about( at least in the news section) a real turd! lol! I don't think I could go around as an ordained minister granted by them. Holy poop!

Shawn King
 
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