Michael Shermer debunked by Astrologer on his own show!

[The Pair of Cats]

Shermer discovers that, despite his best efforts, Vedic Astrology has a 77% accuracy rate.

 

[Kieran]

Shermer discovers that, despite his best efforts, Vedic Astrology has a 77% accuracy rate.

Astrology, is something I believe is real, it can be tested by science. This video you posted here proves it can be!

I can't remember exactly when I started noticing it, but I have a keen eye for things. I have seen similar triads in people with the exact same birth star sign' similar personalities, like and dislikes what they want from life stuff like that and so on. My Astrology chart used to tell me what type of lady I would suit as well and if the relationship would last, past relationships that fell apart in the past well my Astrology was correct the signs that i was with in the past were not good for me personally, one of my best signs for me happens to be my now partners sign and I am in a happy place. It weird it might be different for someone else, but there is something there all right there is no doubt in my mind anyway!

 

[Sean Elifritz]

That was interesting but I'm going to need quite a bit more than that to be convinced astrology is real.

 

[pixelsmith]

That guy is full of BS. Anyone could do what he does.

 

[jtaylor]

Hey!!!!!!! Even my Magic 8 Ball is right half the time.

 

[imjohn]

Any good sceptic is willing to look at results that contradict his expectations. It seems to me like Shermer is willing to do that -- he didn't alter the results of the test.

If you thought this video would make Shermer look bad, you were wrong.

 

[SoCalGNX]

Never, ever rely on astrology columns you find in newspapers etc. And your horoscope is not just your "Sun" sign - its composed of many more elements than just one thing. Add the concept of "free will" and you will understand that anything canned is usually not appropriate.

 

[Kieran]

Never, ever rely on astrology columns you find in newspapers etc. And your horoscope is not just your "Sun" sign - its composed of many more elements than just one thing. Add the concept of "free will" and you will understand that anything canned is usually not appropriate.

Very true, you can't learn about it in one day! That stuff in papers and magazines is rubbish, because of the millions that read their star sign, it bound to have only meaning for just a few people! I firmly believe there is something to Astrology, it has hand lot of stigma directed at it over the years, but the people that dismiss tend to be the people who don't understand it or have even taken the time to look into it! People can call me kooky all they want, but again I am firmly convinced this could be proven with the right tools and science looking into it in a meaningful way.

 

[The Pair of Cats]

Any good sceptic is willing to look at results that contradict his expectations. It seems to me like Shermer is willing to do that -- he didn't alter the results of the test.

If you thought this video would make Shermer look bad, you were wrong.

So would Shermer be willing to come out and say that there really might be something to Astrology after all? Let's hear him say it then!

 

[bbridges]

Pixelshith, jtaylor,would you care to back that up? -to 77%?

 

[The Pair of Cats]

The most interesting part was when he (Shermer) swapped the 2 ladies readings around. When presented with them,
they both were unimpressed and gave a very low score on them. When presented with the correct readings their opinions and ratings changed considerably. In fact their ratings were the highest (around 90-98% accurracy)

Any good sceptic is willing to look at results that contradict his expectations. It seems to me like Shermer is willing to do that -- he didn't alter the results of the test.

If you thought this video would make Shermer look bad, you were wrong.

Are you saying that Shermer expected the results to show Vedic Astrology in a bad light or as complete bunk?
As far as the video making Shermer look bad, that depends on his reason(s) for conducting the experiment. He actually made Vedic Astrology look quite good as it happens.

 

[imjohn]

TAre you saying that Shermer expected the results to show Vedic Astrology in a bad light or as complete bunk?
As far as the video making Shermer look bad, that depends on his reason(s) for conducting the experiment. He actually made Vedic Astrology look quite good as it happens.

Meh. It didn't look that good. The astrologers "predictions" were still very, very generic and broad. Think about the difference in ages between the two women and think about how those age differences would effect a cold reading.

In fact I was surprised that Shermer didn't point this out and that he allowed such a sloppy protocol for the test.

 

[trainedobserver]

Astrology is good for what exactly? Has Astrology played any significant role in history?

 

[The Pair of Cats]

If you thought this video would make Shermer look bad, you were wrong.

Was I?

In fact I was surprised that Shermer didn't point this out and that he allowed such a sloppy protocol for the test.

He made himself look bad then. I didn't have to do a thing. Actually I thought Shermer did an ok job as presenter.

The astrologers "predictions" were still very, very generic and broad.

I think that a near 80% accuracy rating was pretty good for "generic and broad" readings. A lot higher than say, mere chance. A complete reading for each person would be more in depth and would take a lot longer to do. But also considering the time constraints of the show and the amount of people involved the astrologer did a reasonable job.

---------- Post added at 03:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:08 AM ----------

Astrology is good for what exactly? Has Astrology played any significant role in history?

Doctors in the middle ages also studied and practiced astrology. Way before the Europeans were using it the Indians and i think the Persians were using it as a conjunct to their medical practices. Kings and Queens had their own court astrologers as part of their decision making.
Astronomy grew from Astrology.

 

[imjohn]

No doubt Astrology has been historically if not scientifically significant.

A better question is what can it do for me now. Let's imagine that the skill this astrologer demonstrated is valid. So he can look at my birthdate and describe me in a way I recognize. So what? What good does it do me to have an astrologer tell me I have bushy eyebrows?

Meh. Worthless.

 

[The Pair of Cats]

No doubt Astrology has been historically if not scientifically significant.

A better question is what can it do for me now. Let's imagine that the skill this astrologer demonstrated is valid. So he can look at my birthdate and describe me in a way I recognize. So what? What good does it do me to have an astrologer tell me I have bushy eyebrows?

Meh. Worthless.

Well you will know when to pluck them
Astrology does not deal with just personal descriptions and birthdates. The movement of the sun and planets can be used to look at how those movements can affect aspects of a persons life.

 

[trainedobserver]

Doctors in the middle ages also studied and practiced astrology. Way before the Europeans were using it the Indians and i think the Persians were using it as a conjunct to their medical practices. Kings and Queens had their own court astrologers as part of their decision making. Astronomy grew from Astrology.

Then what medical breakthrough or insight has ever been attributed to the use of astrology? What decision, policies, or actions by a King or Queen were the result of astrology and how did astrology benefit them? It seems to me if I were trying to make a case for astrology I'd want to highlight how it has made a real and practical impact in the way of techniques, inventions, or the avoidance of otherwise unknowable hazards.

 

[The Pair of Cats]

Then what medical breakthrough or insight has ever been attributed to the use of astrology? What decision, policies, or actions by a King or Queen were the result of astrology and how did astrology benefit them? It seems to me if I were trying to make a case for astrology I'd want to highlight how it has made a real and practical impact in the way of techniques, inventions, or the avoidance of otherwise unknowable hazards.

John Dee was Queen Elizabeth the 1st personal astrologer. He was also a mathematician, navigator, geographer and astronomer. He also studied codes and was the first secret-service spy. It would not be a stretch to say that he had a great deal of influence on the day to day decision making of the Queen.

Nostradamus was an astrologer and doctor. In fact his use of hygiene and herbs in the treatment of the plague helped save many lives, unfortunately not some members of his family or indeed his wife. Whether you can attribute astrology to those cures are anyones guess.

Isaac Newton believed in astrology. In an argument with Edmund Halley on the subject he was quoted as saying " I have studied the matter, you have not!"

In more recent times Teddy Roosevelt kept a copy of his birth chart on the wall of his white house office to remind him not to lose his temper.
As the Ambassador to Britain Joseph Kennedy apparently consulted astrologers.

Albert Einstein said "Astrology is a science in itself and contains an illuminating body of knowledge. It taught me many things and I am greatly indebted to it."

JP Morgan, America's first billionaire, said : "Millionaires don't use astrology, billionaires do."

Carl Jung used astrology as an adjunct to his patients analysis.

Even good old Ronald Reagan's wife Nancy used astrologers extensively during his tenure. His chief of staff Donald Regan reported that the advice of the first lady's astrologer was taken very seriously on matters of policy. He also said "It's common knowledge that a large percentage of Wall Street brokers use astrology."

While all of the above do not constitute the type of proof you require to acknowledge any practical application of astrology it does show that persons in positions of power have and still do use astrology for decision making.

 

[tyder001]

Actually, the kind of "proof" (I hope the guy that got pissed off at me for using quotation marks and bad spelling isn't reading this) Anyway, that kind of proof is not going to be there for anything. Little secret is if a creationist offered the same challenge that Jimmy Randi offers to the paranormal for proof of evolution it couldn't be proven. Blashpemy some will yell. Well, it coulnd't. Somebody could always find a way to say the results don't say what the person presenting them wants them to say. No, I did not deny evolution. So please (to all the junior scientist here) don't jump on me. I was just making a point. Life is not reducible to a test tube and although it's wonderful to have all the medical and techonolical advances we have they are still tools that we use on this earth. They are part of the "devine" nature of mankind. They certainly didn't just "pop" into exsistence out of the primordial void. Astrology isn't something I follow very seriously. But, I wouldn't be at all suprised to find some validity in the descipline of it. Everything appears to be conncected and we are made of the stuff of the stars. So, who knows? I wouldn't plan my day around it but if somebody does that's o.k. with me.

 

[The Pair of Cats]

Exactly Tyder. Most people don't start their day by consulting their friendly neighborhood astrologer. But some do. And it is a known fact that persons in positions of power, Kings, Queens, Prime Ministers, Ambassadors etc have used them. What it does for them maybe only they know. What Shermer's test showed, with a small sample size, was that some validity could be attributed to the Vedic method that was used. Does it prove definitively that astrology works or is real? No of course it doesn't.
Esoteric subjects like this will probably never be proven to be true by science or other methods. Some people will consider it all to be bunk others will swear by them. Some will be undecided. It is such a personal journey, the path through the esoteric worlds, that each person's perception of that journey will be different and personal to them. Such as the UFO phenomenon and the so called paranormal. Some have experiences, some do not. Some can explain those experiences to their satisfaction, some cannot. I believe that the realm in which we delve and explore here on these forums is such an individual one that our pathways to any kind of truth in such matters will vary enormously from one person to another and none being the right or wrong one.