imjohn
Paranormal Novice
It would harm my bank account by whatever the amount the astrologer charged.
Nope.
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Michael Shermer debunked by Astrologer on his own show!
- Thread starter The Pair of Cats
- Start date
Free episodes:
The Pair of Cats
a.k.a Philip Deane
Yeah, I thought so. Not willing to put your money where your mouth is.
trainedobserver
Paranormally Disenchanted
Then we need to close this thread.
imjohn
Paranormal Novice
Talk about a person who is unwilling to put their money where there mouth is. You are the supporter of astrology.
P
pixelsmith
Guest
in what way?
---------- Post added at 06:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:03 PM ----------
bbridges... i am seeing that you know someone with a last name that starts with a B... this person could be a male or female... how am I doing? I also see something has happened to you within the past 2 or 3 years... maybe someone died, maybe you changed jobs, maybe someone you know drank a glass of water.... how am I doing? blah blah blah blah...
The Pair of Cats
a.k.a Philip Deane
The best way to validate astrology is to get a reading from an experienced astrologer and if you two clowns are too gutless to go and get one then you should shut your mouths until you do. I don't want to hear your feeble excuses: "oh it costs money", oh i haven't got time". Put up or shut up.
P
pixelsmith
Guest
I will do the reading for free.
---------- Post added at 07:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:23 PM ----------
imjohn... I am getting that your name may or may not be john... you may or may not be a male... you are probably standing directly over the center of the Earth... I am seeing you exhaling CO2... Your mother had at least one child and .... oh yes... I am seeing that your mother is a female... how am I doing? Any of this make sense to you?
The Pair of Cats
a.k.a Philip Deane
That sounds more like asstrology, the study of excrement that comes directly from your mouth. Maybe you need an enema?
The same challenge goes to you 9/11 boy. Go get a reading.
P
pixelsmith
Guest
I can give my self a reading... I sense that I am laughing my ass off and that this thread will be closed very soon. Does this make any sense to you?
The Pair of Cats
a.k.a Philip Deane
Yes, yes it does. You know when pixel is involved in any thread it is time to close it . Please one of you mods, close this thread before pixelsmith chimes in with another "...please laugh at me. I'm pretending to be a psychic!" gag.
Stick to your truther, 9/11 subjects pal. At least, on the surface, you kind of look intelligent in those threads.
Stick to your truther, 9/11 subjects pal. At least, on the surface, you kind of look intelligent in those threads.
imjohn
Paranormal Novice
AMAZING!!!!!! Best astrology reading evah!
---------- Post added at 09:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:31 PM ----------
Aw!? Did your feelings get hurt?
---------- Post added at 09:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:32 PM ----------
A single reading from a cold reading astrologer does NOTHING to validate astrology.
The Pair of Cats
a.k.a Philip Deane
Nah, my feelings are fine. If you want to be a dickhead about the subject, that's fine. Your ignorance about the subject is only exceeded by your poor attempts at humor as is pixels. I wouldn't have minded but feeble comedy
by ignoramuses bore me.
Scoffers, naysayers and buffoons aside, I studied the subject some years ago after being interested in learning more. Before that i had several people try to tell/explain to me what it was about but the examples given by them didn't really cut it. I enrolled in a course and studied with 2 local astrologers for 4 months before i was laid off from my job and could no longer afford to continue. What i discovered through study and having readings showed me that there was some validity to it. About the same as any other method of divination. In the hands of a good practitioner the results could be as high as 60-70%. There were aspects of astrology that i still question but overall what i did learn and discover satisfied my interest.
The main thing i discovered was that the only way to ascertain any validity was to study the subject with an open mind. I was prepared to dismiss any or all of it if the evidence, to my mind, was lacking.
The reason the people I mentioned use or used astrology is because they found some merit to it. Not because the suddenly became irrational.
I applaud Shermer for at least making an effort to investigate Astrology. The methods he employed maybe questionable to some but the results at least in the minds of the subjects involved showed that some found validity in it.
If you are going to criticise astrology you should at least understand how it works, the methods used to arrive at the conclusions reached. Ignorance of the processes are no excuse.
I don't care one iota if the people responding to this thread believe that it works or not. Your opinions are fine by me. Your smarmy, sarcastic and insulting attempts at ridicule are not.
@trainedobserver & imjohn.
Finding validity in Astrology, if you wish to find it, is your journey not mine. Asking me to provide proof to you is futile when your mind is already made up. And yes the best way to find out is to get a chart compiled and interpreted by a professional astrologer, simple as that. If you choose to ignore my challenge then fine but your comments are baseless and meaningless if you don't do any real research. You just come across sounding like pseudosceptics and should be afforded about the same credibility. If you take up the challenge and still believe that it is bunk then that is fine also. At least your invalidation of the subject comes from research and personal experience and i would respect that much more than your schoolboy attempts at debunking.
@pixelsmith. Do you think that you are being funny? If you do then you are seriously delusional. I have watched your attempts to dissuade the naysayers when any of the umpteen 9/11 or climategate threads have been trotted out. Believe me mate, you aint looking good or winning any of those debates, sunshine. You should maybe concentrate you meagre efforts on producing a more convincing argument in those arenas and subjects and leave the comedy to people who are really funny like Ron Paul and Alex Jones.
Please Gene, Ron, Angelo, Don or Chris do us all a favor. Shut down this thread before the bad comedy causes someone to have an allergic reaction to any impending ad hominem that might occur in the near future.
imjohn
Paranormal Novice
Ah, sadly I believe you are the person who is making ad hominem attacks. Unless you consider calling someone a dick head, ignoramus, etc. To not be ad hominem. Pot meet kettle.
Shut down the thread if you wish. Just remember who seems to have abused whatever standards apply here.
Shut down the thread if you wish. Just remember who seems to have abused whatever standards apply here.
The Pair of Cats
a.k.a Philip Deane
Well i'm glad to see that you recognize being called an ignoramus when you're being one. Excellent! Congrats. I have no problems with ad hominems, whether they be toward or from me. I can go at it all day if you like. The thing is you are not adding anything to this thread except for ignorant pronouncements about a subject you no nothing about. You just keep repeating your tired opinion. Ok. We get it. You think astrology is worthless.
So unless you have something of any value to add to this riveting discussion i suggest you transport over to the JREF forums where you and your pseudosceptic mates can guffaw and giggle over other subjects you no nothing about.
As i take it you have never studied astrology and have no idea what makes up a chart or how to interpret one. Therefore all you can come up with to add is one of your classics:
"A single reading from a cold reading astrologer does NOTHING to validate astrology.. ", or my personal favorite, "...meh, it's worthless".
But if you wish you can respond to this post with another pearl of wisdom and give me another reason to call you names etc. Your choice. Or someone can chime in with something resembling a reasonable discussion. Or the thread can be closed down.
Other than that, I take it you will have no more to add.
imjohn
Paranormal Novice
Oh, the pain, the horror. An anonymous person on the internet who spells the word "know" as "no" has called me an ignoramus, ignorant and unreasonable because I dare to question the validity of astrology! How shall I live with myself?!
Shall I go and guffaw with my brethren at the JREF? Perhaps I shall gnash my teeth and rend my garments....
No. I think I will quietly laugh and consign this anonymous person to the dustbin of those who react with extreme hostility when faced with simple questions.
Adios, señor bobo. Vaya con dios.
The Pair of Cats
a.k.a Philip Deane
As I thought. Yet another pearl of wisdom from the ignoramus, imjohn. My name is there for all to see, champ, you just gotta use your eyes. But, oh i forgot looking around or any form of research is too much for you to handle isn't it?
And what's your real name? Or is it Imjohn? If it isn't you might want to think about adding the real one in there somewhere before you wrongly chide someone else about anonymity, moron.
Adios and chupa mi culo, pendejo!
Kieran
Paranormal Adept
That has it's risks Philip. An Astrologer might have a good reputation in your local town or city, or wherever, and be considered good by people who attended a reading by him or her, but people can be fooled and often are!
The first experiment in the video you posted, is a perfect example of what lot of fake Astrologers do, they cold read you from the beginning to the end. The often meet you in person so the get a feel for you, ask you a few questions and in kind learn lot about you!
This Video whoever is unique because it shows an Astrologer being asked to accept strict guidelines and adhere to some hard testing conditions. The believe of Astrology being a useless thing, or that is has no real practical use that is widely held view. imJohn, well that is your outlook, but to argue there is nothing or no validity to this subject that is also wrong. The subject requires further testing of course, but come off it my friends. The high accuracy rating of the second test was pretty outstanding can people not see that?.
What was this expert in Vedic Astrology asked to do and I ask people maybe required is a better word go back and watch the video once more?
He never met any of the nine people tested! Yes, never met them there all just blank to him empty faces .. He was just given just a date .. time.. place..birth.. and still he was able to get a accuracy of above 70 percent well 77 per cent to be exact. For me personally that was a really tough challenge to successfully complete which he done.
For him, to read people that he'd never met before this thing was put together by Shermer, that suggests to me this guy is credible in what he does. I actually kind of laughed at Shermer face expressions at the end of the video, i bet he was saying to himself how did he do that, he most have conned me somehow, he just had to have had!
The Pair of Cats
a.k.a Philip Deane
That's correct Kieran. People can be fooled. That's why you would need to do some research. Don't just go to the first one you hear about, look around. Contact organizations in your area. Talk to others who may have been to one. There are always risks. Personally i would ask the astrologer to deliver their interpretation of your chart without asking questions. If they have a problem with that i would be sceptical of their abilities as it would fall into the realms of cold reading. In fact if you attend any form or divination of yourself, or psychic reading as such, i would avoid answering any questions, especially ones that would help the psychic or reader "fish" for answers.
As for cold reading, i don't know that he was essentially "cold reading" the participants as say a "psychic or medium would do. As you have already pointed out, he would have compiled simple charts for each of them, and due to time constraints, made a quick assessment of that information supplied by each person: date of birth, birth time, place of birth (lat & long). He probably would have factored in the position of the planets in the various houses and also determined the ascendant sign and sign at mid heaven. I don't know whether he would have enough time to factor in the various planetary aspects as they relate to each other.
His "reading" as such would have been made using the information those factors supplied him. Having the participants in front of him when he delivered the reading is problematic in a way as their feedback may have helped him. In the end, as you say he did a pretty good job with the testing criteria supplied to him.
Astrology is far from a perfect method of divination as indeed all methods are not. I think the people who i had mentioned as having used it would have used it as an adjunct to their other methods of information gathering, just as the U.S government used remote viewing as an adjunct to its other intelligence gathering methods.
Yeah and the Shermer facial expressions were priceless.
Kieran
Paranormal Adept
What is all this bloody anonymous crap all about. I don't really have a serious problem with people being anonymous, since this is a forum for international internet users to discuss the paranormal (distance is a factor to why people on the internet will always remain anonymous to each other), but nobody on here is writing any books or claiming stuff that will harm anyone physically. Maybe when insults are thrown ya it nice to know who you are talking to, but your hardly going to travel across the world to have a punch up with someone you've argued with on the internet!
The internet just allows people to communicate in darkness so to speak, but this Forum is not too bad. You actually get first names and addresses somewhat, so watch it for those call me names on here only slagging. I think lot of people on here are good people, you can tell lot by the way people write and express themselves with there writing. I have feeling the majority of people who come here often I would get on with them in a real-life situation even though we probably disagree on occasion.
---------- Post added at 04:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:05 AM ----------
When I said Cold -reading. I mean that option was only available to him with the Women in the suit!
The other test he could not have done that, because he'd not met any of the nine test subjects in person. Just to clarify to make it more clear for other people reading this. The second test my opinion and yours I guess? The guy is genuine and credible, he passed all tests put in front of him that were worth a damn. I honestly can't see how anyone can argue against the test, when the astrologer had very little to go on other then what I mentioned.
The Pair of Cats
a.k.a Philip Deane
I agree Kieran. The Vedic astrologer did a commendable job.
The trouble is that astrology is one of the many polarizing subjects in the esoteric world. You, I and some others see the potential in it. Some opponents seem to be very eager to dismiss it out of hand without any study or even minor research in to the subject. Also people have tried it and walked away unconvinced but at least they have checked it out. Some don't believe in any esoteric or paranormal subject unless science has verified or validated it. I don't have a problem with criticism of any of the subjects but at least do your homework.