Missing People....lots of them

[starise]

Not sure if this has been a topic here in the past. David Paulides, who is a skilled law enforcement investigator has written a series of books on the strange disappearances of people in remote areas. His work is very detailed and accurate.

Missing 411-Western United States & Canada: Unexplained Disappearances of North Americans that have never been solved: David Paulides: 9781466216297: Amazon.com: Books

It is so very sad for me to see how many people out there have disappeared who were someones daughter, wife,child,father etc..... the most disturbing are the cases of missing children.

Have you read the book? Are you familiar with this? If so, what are some of your theories on what is happening here. Large numbers of people gone missing or found in pieces dead in strange locations, sometimes recovered miles away only minutes later...something impossible to do on foot. Sometimes bones found at elevations impossible to humanly climb to . Storms occurring right at the time the searches are going on almost as if they were timed. That's only the tip of the iceberg....a lot of high strangeness going on in these cases.

David Paulides never specifically details any reasons or causes. He just reports the factual findings over years. The reluctance of the parks system to assist with investigations, their apparent closed lipped approach makes this look even more like some kind of a cover up.

People have gone missing in these places for years.

Some people seem to think that there is an animal to blame....not a bear....that is either known and not disclosed or unknown. Some of the more bizarre cases involve what would be considered supernatural.

Why hasn't there been more investigation into this and what could it be that is capturing and killing people in ways that seem inhuman and impossible?

David has written two books one covering the west coast and one covering the east coast of the US.

If you visit a national park and have kids, DON'T LET THEM OUT OF YOUR SIGHT.

 

[Stagger Lee]

I recall seeing this, perhaps on this site, not long ago. I looked at some of the cases mentioned, and found them very disturbing. There has always been something about the # of missing people that has bothered me- and I understand that most have a human explanation (sinister or otherwise) but I applaud David's work.

 

[nostro75]

Maybe they slip into a parallel universe. Nothing to back that up tho.

 

[mike]

December 2, 2012 — David Paulides and J.C. Johnson | The Paracast — The Gold Standard of Paranormal Radio

 

[Decker]

I also interviewed Paulides on Dark Matters Radio. If you wish to hear the show go to;

Dark Matters Radio - Downloads | CyberStationUSA On Demand Programming in 2012, week 44 on Weds.

Decker

 

[Konrad Hartmann]

Pennsylvania currently has about 100,000 coyotes. I heard a rumor of a child being killed by them a few years ago, but until I read something substantial I'll consider that to be rumor. Eastern coyotes are big enough to take small children, but nothing has been confirmed in PA.

The disappearances mentioned above are an interesting topic, though. Most hunters stay as close as possible to roads, and few actually penetrate more than a mile into the woods. Who knows what is possible?

 

[Randall]

Not sure if this has been a topic here in the past. David Paulides, who is a skilled law enforcement investigator has written a series of books on the strange disappearances of people in remote areas. His work is very detailed and accurate.

Having lived and worked out in rural and relatively remote areas for extended periods, I can tell you that strange things do happen, and it's not all just coyotes. But animals alone can still be very unnerving. I used to live just outside of town and would often walk home at night. On a pitch black moonless night the only way I could tell I was on the road was by walking along the edge of the curb, and that gets pretty unnerving when you start hearing weird animal sounds pacing you no more than a few yards away.

 

[Wade]

Having lived and worked out in rural and relatively remote areas for extended periods, I can tell you that strange things do happen, and it's not all just coyotes. But animals alone can still be very unnerving. I used to live just outside of town and would often walk home at night. On a pitch black moonless night the only way I could tell I was on the road was by walking along the edge of the curb, and that gets pretty unnerving when you start hearing weird animal sounds pacing you more than a few yards away.

even more unnerving when the animal sounds disappeared instantly

 

[starise]

Thanks Mike, I'll check out that Paracast. Decker if you have that in a file somewhere I'll try and listen to it. Appreciate the info.

Randall I'm glad you're still with us to tell the tale and that nothing got hold of your tail

Hey Konrad, are you the girl or the frog...the frog doesn't appear to be in a very good mood ....Wow, I had no idea there were that many coyotes in Pennsylvania!

Ok, I'll serious up ....this is a serious subject that deserves much more publicity than it's getting IMO.

I know a certain percentage of the missing cases are wild animals, and a certain percentage of them are explainable as foul play even though no culprit has been apprehended....but many of these cases are just plain weird and seem beyond the scope any obvious explanation.Dare I say it....a paranormal or otherthanormal something is happening. If you don't buy the book just read the comments on the book and you will get a grasp of some of the stuff I'm talking about....listening to the casts too.



Maybe I should point to a few specific cases to make my point. In one case the victims remains were found way way up on a steep mountain side hundreds of feet up.Too steep for coyotes. In another case searchers covered their area completely came back and found a victim where they had just searched.

 

[Randall]

Thanks Mike, I'll check out that Paracast. Decker if you have that in a file somewhere I'll try and listen to it. Appreciate the info.

Randall I'm glad you're still with us to tell the tale and that nothing got hold of your tail

Hey Konrad, are you the girl or the frog...the frog doesn't appear to be in a very good mood ....Wow, I had no idea there were that many coyotes in Pennsylvania!

Ok, I'll serious up ....this is a serious subject that deserves much more publicity than it's getting IMO.

I know a certain percentage of the missing cases are wild animals, and a certain percentage of them are explainable as foul play even though no culprit has been apprehended....but many of these cases are just plain weird and seem beyond the scope any obvious explanation.Dare I say it....a paranormal or otherthanormal something is happening. If you don't buy the book just read the comments on the book and you will get a grasp of some of the stuff I'm talking about....listening to the casts too.



Maybe I should point to a few specific cases to make my point. In one case the victims remains were found way way up on a steep mountain side hundreds of feet up.Too steep for coyotes. In another case searchers covered their area completely came back and found a victim where they had just searched.

Ya that stuff is just plain freaky ... I never understood the allure of camping.​

​

 

[Bob Watson]

There is no evidance that any thing paranormal happened. No bigfoot sightings or UFOs no hair or stool.most can be traced to human actions. No bigfoot needed.

 

[Randall]

No bigfoot needed.

Oh I agree ...What goes on in the minds of people is far scarier than UFOs and Bigfoot any day.

 

[starise]

Funny and very true... I camped all the time when I was just a pup, we would get our stuff and go into the middle of a large wooded area and start a campfire. Not a family camping trip just me and my buds.

One time I took one of those aluminum folding cots thinking it would be more comfortable than sleeping on the rocks and sticks I usually found myself digging out at 3 in the morning. I set it up over a really healthy bed of poison ivy. The cloth on the cot absorbed every bit of the oils from the poison. The next morning I couldn't open my eyes completely, everything was swollen. I looked like an overweight chinese kid in the mirror. Actually needed shots, that's how bad I got the stuff. For the next week I itched my scratches and scratched my itches....ever had poison ivy in your ass?....lets just say the camping experiences were not very good.

 

[Muadib]

Funny and very true... I camped all the time when I was just a pup, we would get our stuff and go into the middle of a large wooded area and start a campfire. Not a family camping trip just me and my buds.

One time I took one of those aluminum folding cots thinking it would be more comfortable than sleeping on the rocks and sticks I usually found myself digging out at 3 in the morning. I set it up over a really healthy bed of poison ivy. The cloth on the cot absorbed every bit of the oils from the poison. The next morning I couldn't open my eyes completely, everything was swollen. I looked like an overweight chinese kid in the mirror. Actually needed shots, that's how bad I got the stuff. For the next week I itched my scratches and scratched my itches....ever had poison ivy in your ass?....lets just say the camping experiences were not very good.

Thankfully, I can answer that question with a "no", though my father is not as fortunate. Let's just say he was on a bike ride and he felt the call of nature and couldn't hold it, after doing his business he wiped with some leaves, without realizing that he had just wiped his ass with poison ivy. It goes without saying that he was not a happy camper for the next week or so. I'll never forget that as long as I live. As bad as I felt for him, I still had to laugh. I've never gotten the whole camping thing either, sleeping on the hard ground is not my idea of a good time. These days, the closest I get to roughing it is a Holiday Inn. I did my fair share of camping when I was younger, just never enjoyed it all that much.

 

[Konrad Hartmann]

Hey Konrad, are you the girl or the frog...the frog doesn't appear to be in a very good mood ....Wow, I had no idea there were that many coyotes in Pennsylvania!


Ok, I'll serious up ....this is a serious subject that deserves much more publicity than it's getting IMO.



I know a certain percentage of the missing cases are wild animals, and a certain percentage of them are explainable as foul play even though no culprit has been apprehended....but many of these cases are just plain weird and seem beyond the scope any obvious explanation.Dare I say it....a paranormal or otherthanormal something is happening. If you don't buy the book just read the comments on the book and you will get a grasp of some of the stuff I'm talking about....listening to the casts too.






Maybe I should point to a few specific cases to make my point. In one case the victims remains were found way way up on a steep mountain side hundreds of feet up.Too steep for coyotes. In another case searchers covered their area completely came back and found a victim where they had just searched.

The frog, Starise. I don't photograph well.

Regarding Paulides' book, I don't see myself being able to afford the $236 price anytime soon, but you've read it? What are the commonalities between the victims? Depending on how long a body has been out there, I suppose it may be hard to determine cause of death. Coyotes have been known to play with a head/skull like a ball once it comes loose. Once scavengers consume soft tissue, I guess you have to go by bone damage, but I wonder if peri-mortem bone damage can be differentiated from post-mortem gnawing.

In Lawrence Gonzalez's book Deep Survival, he mentions that there are various places where people die on a regular basis simply because the environment is dangerous. Many people aren't prepared for the rapid weather changes possible in mountainous areas, for instance, and a two-hour hike may end up with someone becoming hypothermic, disoriented and lost. Body retrievals in some of the western parks are just not that uncommon. I think Cody Lunden wrote that most people are either dead or rescued within 72 hours.

So, as always, the devil is in the details. I heard the Paulides interview but I didn't hear him specify about cause of death for these victims, which I think is the crux of the issue. We have more woods in the U.S. than we did 100 years ago, and sometimes people have more time and money to travel than they do knowledge of hazards. Park rangers often have trouble keeping tourists away from, for example, bears feeding (and if that photo opportunity for Facebook was that important, I'm rooting for the bear). Some people don't understand that every vacation place isn't Disneyland.

But I don't mean to denigrate these people either. Even experienced outdoors-folk make a mistake or just have bad luck, and sometimes it only takes one thing to go wrong. And again, I don't know the details of the book.

Regarding the bodies moved to high locations, could a puma have done that? What sort of wounds were present? What are the most common types of wounds on the bodies?

 

[Bob Watson]

I read the missing 411 west. At no point dose the author state directly bigfoot or any paranormal agencys are at work he offers no evidence of any kind of such. No hair tracks stool wounds on body...so is this odd maybe...national parks are large and unspoiled for the most part.it is unusual for lots of ppl to go missing there.

 

[Wade]

Even of the number and/or circumstances regarding disappearance were not being contested I would think that some of the replies of the park services regarding the keeping of records or not maintaining them to be offputting. They are the frickin government, of course they keep records. They keep head counts (estimates) of animal population, migrating wildlife and of various trees. They issue permits for camping, car entries and back country hiking, I'm sure they are fully capable of determining who checks in but doesn't check out.
Wouldn't you want to know if somebody never reported back in just in case you could have a looney causing trouble or starting wildfires?

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

Thankfully, I can answer that question with a "no", though my father is not as fortunate. Let's just say he was on a bike ride and he felt the call of nature and couldn't hold it, after doing his business he wiped with some leaves, without realizing that he had just wiped his ass with poison ivy. It goes without saying that he was not a happy camper for the next week or so. I'll never forget that as long as I live. As bad as I felt for him, I still had to laugh....

I remember once in high-school, a group of my buddies and I were partying at night outside at a friend's ranch and one of the party-goers stumbled out beyond the light of our campfire to take a leak. Unfortunately, no one had told him there was an electric fence around the the brood-mare paddock. Even now—thinking back, years later—his gargled screams still haunt me. I can think of many ways to quickly sober up and what happened to him ain't one of them...

 

[Muadib]

I remember once in high-school, a group of my buddies and I were partying at night outside at a friend's ranch and one of the party-goers stumbled out beyond the light of our campfire to take a leak. Unfortunately, no one had told him there was an electric fence around the the brood-mare paddock. Even now—thinking back, years later—his gargled screams still haunt me. I can think of many ways to quickly sober up and what happened to him ain't one of them...

That is frightening, hopefully he was OK in the long run. Always remember to look before you.... well.... you get the idea.

 

[Actionsquid]

There is no evidance that any thing paranormal happened. No bigfoot sightings or UFOs no hair or stool.most can be traced to human actions. No bigfoot needed.

I don't recall Paulides asserting that he wanted to advance any one thing behind the disappearances, much less something paranormal/cryptozoological. If fact I though he was careful to avoid that. (I also heard him on Don Ecker's show, and I'm not remembering perfectly what exactly he said on which as the interviews were kind of similar)

My "take-away" had more to do with the state of documentation of so many missing person instances and the nature of the response of the parks system. If true, that is pretty disturbing in itself.