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Missing People....lots of them

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Thanks for the tips on ordering direct from his website. Just ordered.I like that price much better.

It looks as if he only ships from the site in North America though.
 
I hope they find her ok. Answering a few basic questions shouldn't be difficult for this guy. If she got tired and he kept looking for help ok, but he should be able to identify where he left her.

Forgetfulness and disorientation are pretty much a given if you haven't slept or eaten for a few days but after he gets some rest and hydration he should have some info. Wouldn't you agree?
 
starise said:
I hope they find her ok. Answering a few basic questions shouldn't be difficult for this guy. If she got tired and he kept looking for help ok, but he should be able to identify where he left her.

Forgetfulness and disorientation are pretty much a given if you haven't slept or eaten for a few days but after he gets some rest and hydration he should have some info. Wouldn't you agree?
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I disagree. I mean, if there was a really specific landmark (e.g., a waterfall, a mountaintop, a cave, or even a stream), then he could use that. Otherwise, it can be very difficult for an inexperienced hiker to point out locations in the middle of a wooded area. Maybe if they were using a GPS or following a contour map and compass, he could do it. But a novice hiker who was dehydrated while lost for a few days in dense foliage, possibly traveling at night? I don't know. My guess would be he has no idea. Even several members of the rescue team got lost and had to be airlifted out.

The other angle to this is whether or not he may have done something to her.
 
Konrad I'm thinking more in terms of something like this," I left her by a tree and walked west for three hours"...at least that's something to go on. An identifying thing like a stream, a bend in the path anything really. If you have time distance and direction then you have a clue.I'm not saying he had GPS coordinates.
 
Not passing judgement here as they are kids and one of the first casualties of situations like this is judgement but from what I heard the missing girl was NOT a hiker, given that, to split up the way they did makes one shake their head.
 
Breaking (Good) News, according to local news @ 12:50 pm the missing girl has been located ( but not rescued)

Edit : rescued and coherent and by all accounts in better condition than the guy was, after being pulled out she was standing and talking with rescuers. apparently they were both found by random hikers...not rescue teams...they weren't all that far from each other and both less than a mile from the car. Neither was really prepared for the hike, shorts and a couple of bottles of water at best.
 
it should be noted that both hikers were shoeless but apparently wearing all their clothing...which wasn't substantial... and both found in areas that had been searched previously as they were near the car and the rescuers had used the car as a starting point. the girl was found on the side of a cliff , also the story is changing now the report is she is/was as every bit delirious and dehydrated as the guy was.
 
I'm glad to hear that all is well. Commenters on the news sites already were calling the guy a murderer because of his earrings. Well, I was guilty of wondering about foul play as well.

So, I try to keep in mind these weird details like the fact that they had no shoes, were not far from the car, were found in areas already searched, and that the girl's father initially said that it wasn't like her to go off on a hike like that. There was another recent case where a hiker went missing on Mt. Hood. She also was fortunately found, but there were odd details like a statement that her backpack had been left in her car and, again, while she was missing, her father said that she would never have gone out there by herself. But she did.

These cases turned out well, but had these people gone missing or perished, they may have been cases where someone would have attributed their fate to some nefarious and/or paranormal cause, citing those unexplained details. Just something to keep in mind.
 
Well there will be a lot of monday morning quarterbacking as is usually the case, being southern cal with nice weather and the local mountains right on our doorstep this type of thing is not especially uncommon, people...especially young people tend to have a very laissez faire attitude about being prepared when going into the mountains , and yes konrad, regarding any gossip about what may have taken place, before the girl had been found, a friend of hers had been quoted as saying she had gotten a message...before the kids took off... from her friend that she was going "on an adventure", obviously that could mean anything but was sort of jumped on. Also I noticed at one point after a sheriff's deputy had, after being asked by a reporter about the girl's condition had described her as "pretty beaten up" a commentator had to take pains to quantify that statement to indicate the deputy HAD to mean beaten up in by the surroundings and her ordeal. I hadn't taken it any other way.

So far, the worse injuries are to a reserve deputy who fell some sixty feet and sustained a serious head injury but is expected to make a full recovery.

Lastly, I'd like to point out an interesting phenomena about this case that may mean nothing but may have lessons when talking about these cases and those in david's book. I pay a fair amount attention to these things because I am an avid hiker and sometimes sort of inject myself into these stories. when they found the young man there was little...if any...discrepancies across the media about his condition, listening to the various local media about the rescue yesterday of kylie you'd think there was three different women that were pulled out of the canyon, the various details about her physical condition was different or changed several times.
 
I'm very glad to hear she was found. I am also guilty of suspecting possible foul play. I'm glad I was totally wrong. I don't feel guilty for suspecting it. Unfortunately things can sometimes not be what they seem.
 
spookymulder said:
it should be noted that both hikers were shoeless but apparently wearing all their clothing...which wasn't substantial... and both found in areas that had been searched previously as they were near the car and the rescuers had used the car as a starting point. the girl was found on the side of a cliff , also the story is changing now the report is she is/was as every bit delirious and dehydrated as the guy was.
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The message about weather/temp etc never seems to reach some people. Up in the parks, even in summer, in the US, there can be huge almost sudden changes in weather. People get caught out not far from me in Scotland, in the middle of summer (ahem, well what passes for summer) - up in the hills they go with a daysack, perhaps a rainproof jacket and no supplies. It's like they just cannot believe this lovely summer day could get cold and wet! They do!

Mark Twain famously said, 'The coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Fransisco'. Anyone familiar with SF knows that even on a hot summer day, the mist rolls right on in and the temp can drop a good 30F or more in minutes. You see tourists freezing their asses off with a look of total bewilderment cos they know they left their hotel in shorts etc in beautiful weather and they just didn't expect to be feeling cold in California at that time of year. I know this to be true cos I was one of those tourists - although a local family member had warned us so we were dressed ok.

Point being on the nicest of days in a beautiful place, the weather can change a hell of a lot, and quickly too!
 
goggsmackay said:
The message about weather/temp etc never seems to reach some people. Up in the parks, even in summer, in the US, there can be huge almost sudden changes in weather. People get caught out not far from me in Scotland, in the middle of summer (ahem, well what passes for summer) - up in the hills they go with a daysack, perhaps a rainproof jacket and no supplies. It's like they just cannot believe this lovely summer day could get cold and wet! They do!

Mark Twain famously said, 'The coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Fransisco'. Anyone familiar with SF knows that even on a hot summer day, the mist rolls right on in and the temp can drop a good 30F or more in minutes. You see tourists freezing their asses off with a look of total bewilderment cos they know they left their hotel in shorts etc in beautiful weather and they just didn't expect to be feeling cold in California at that time of year. I know this to be true cos I was one of those tourists - although a local family member had warned us so we were dressed ok.

Point being on the nicest of days in a beautiful place, the weather can change a hell of a lot, and quickly too!
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You're so right goggs at the time we were into a fairly strong marine layer flow but I suspect in this case it may have helped save them as the days were cool and the heavy cloud cover at night trapped in the heat.
 
I just received the missing 411 East Coast book a few days ago. I'm almost halfway through the book. All I can say is if you read this book and don't think there is something really high strange going on with many of these cases I'll be surprised. The better vantage point that this book gives on the facts of the cases.....and they are documented facts....makes it all too clear.
 
starise said:
I just received the missing 411 East Coast book a few days ago. I'm almost halfway through the book. All I can say is if you read this book and don't think there is something really high strange going on with many of these cases I'll be surprised. The better vantage point that this book gives on the facts of the cases.....and they are documented facts....makes it all too clear.
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I have to agree. I finished all three and, if you take the cases exactly as they are described - there are MANY that are very strange. That's not to say that there aren't some where I thought "well, ok but that could be explained this way...". But the oddities far outweighed the potentially mundane.

And, I think this has already been mentioned but, Paulides' book was never actually for sale on Amazon. He sells them through the North American Big Footsearch website for about $25 each. You can find them here: http://www.nabigfootsearch.com/Bigfootstore.html That's where I bought all three books and had no problems.

Also, if you want to hear the Paulides C2C shows, they can be found on YouTube here:

First appearance:

Second appearance

Third appearance (Paulides is introduced at approximately 40:10)

For anyone who hasn't checked out his work, here are some of the odd criteria and highlights that appears in these missing persons cases:

-Missing shoes

-Clothing removed, sometimes removed maybe 100 feet from where the person went missing

-Clothing found in odd positions (in the wilderness), such as neatly folded like someone was doing the laundry with no damage, tears or rips

-Strange weather patterns move into the area when or very soon after the person goes missing which hinders search efforts. It is often weather that is not normal for the area or time of year.

-People at the beginning and end of lines who go out of site for seconds or minutes suddenly disappear and are never found

-Bodies are found days into a search on a frequently used trail or area that the searchers passed through numerous times (one situation that is mentioned is the body lying on a log right in the path - neither had been there the day before)

-Very young children tell strange stories about what happened to them

-Dogs are frequently involved and often go missing as well. Sometimes they reappear long after (sometimes well fed) while the person never returns or is found deceased (there was even at least one case with a family that had multiple dogs, and all dogs went missing at the same time with the person)

-Usually happens near a water source with swamps frequently mentioned

-National parks/government refuse to track missing persons cases and, in some cases, have actually hampered FOIA requests

-Especially in cases involving young children, condition doesn't match the environment. For example, a toddler found on the other side of a swamp with completely clean, dry shoes (as if she had not actually walked there herself, even if she could get through the depth). Or another with a child that was found in a river but it was determined that based on the condition of the body, she had not drowned.

-Berry pickers frequently go missing

-Children are often found WAY outside of the projected search grid - we're talking insurmountable distances up terrain that would be difficult for a grown man away.

-In some cases, a searcher randomly seems to go WAY away from the area that logically should be searched and manages to find the person or their body. No explanation is given as to why the searcher chose to do that.

-In at least one case, Green Berets showed up and appeared to search for a missing little boy even though they refused to work with search and rescue personnel or communicate with anyone else. They set up a separate base, performed some kind of unexplained search and left (people assumed they were looking for the child, although I don't believe that was ever actually confirmed).

-Those who come back alive often act dazed when they are first found and the few that can communicate don't remember what happened

-Vertical or horizontal scratches all over the body, as if the person either ran wantonly through thick vegetation without caring about or reacting to the pain. In cases with vertical (head to toe) scratches it is almost as if they were carried side ways without care.

-A family believed they witnessed something carrying something on its shoulder as it darted through the woods. When they spoke the the FBI agent involved he said it wasn't related. The FBI agent was involved in many similar missing child cases and would later commit suicide (may or may not be related).

One of the stories that really stood out to me in the third book went like this (I don't recall the girl's name but I can go look it up if anyone wants to know):

Young girl (young enough to be wearing diapers I believe, but I will have to double check the details) goes missing with her puppy. The neighbors were building a new home nearby so the house was not inhabited at the time. Many people search, I believe heavy rain was mentioned. They thoroughly checked the uninhabited home and found nothing. No one hears anything until the neighbors and their young daughter visit the uninhabited home (either to move in or check on it, something to that effect). The little girl opens a closet door in the house and the missing girl is in there deceased. Her puppy is alive and with her body, the puppy actually bounded out to the other girl as she opened the door.

The pair couldn't have been in there when searchers were scouring the house or the girl or pup would have likely given them away. Even if they somehow were quiet for days, they found no urine or feces from the dog or child. Anyone who has had puppies knows that they can't hold it for very long. It was almost as if the girl was dropped there with the dog after the fact.

Maybe I'll look for this case again anyway just to make sure I have the details right since there are SO many cases in those 3 books. There were others equally as disturbing as well. I highly recommend reading them. You don't realize the scale of weirdness and strange conicidences involved in these cases until you go through them one at a time.
 
Did you purchase all three or get them from a library? I ask because I've seen mentioned elsewhere that the price for a couple of the editions was in three figure$
 
spookymulder said:
Did you purchase all three or get them from a library? I ask because I've seen mentioned elsewhere that the price for a couple of the editions was in three figure$
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2nd paragraph in my previous post (sorry, I know it was a bit of a novel :p):

And, I think this has already been mentioned but, Paulides' book was never actually for sale on Amazon. He sells them through the North American Big Footsearch website for about $25 each. You can find them here: http://www.nabigfootsearch.com/Bigfootstore.html That's where I bought all three books and had no problems.
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Grifynne,

A very brief but thorough description of some highlight of several of the cases.Thumbs up! Thanks for these links.

I feel as if I'm a pretty rational person and I think many of these events are not in keeping with any kind of sound logic. There are far too many stories here that escape any explanations given only the possibilities we know about.
 
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