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Missing People....lots of them

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Grifynne,

A very brief but thorough description of some highlight of several of the cases.Thumbs up! Thanks for these links.

I feel as if I'm a pretty rational person and I think many of these events are not in keeping with any kind of sound logic. There are far too many stories here that escape any explanations given only the possibilities we know about.

Many thanks, Starise! I tend to write novels so I thought I was probably just boring everyone ;). My initial thought when I first heard about these cases on C2C was "well it's going to be very difficult to explain away rough terrain, wildlife, inclimate weather, accidents and the possibility of human predators like serial killers, etc." But most of these cases really do fall outside of what is rational or expected. I highly recommend checking out his books. I am sure I missed a few key elements and there are MANY more cases that will make you really think.

Another that comes to mind was a missing road worker (and I believe one of the very very few black people to be kidnapped - it's usually white people for some reason). He was at the end of a line of workers along a road that bordered a wooded property with swampland. When they got down to their truck (or whatever they were doing), they noticed he was gone and no where in sight. They heard and saw nothing.

They walked back up the road and found one of his boots plus a bunch of change and contents from his pockets scattered around the ground beside this high fence that separated the roadside with the wooded property. It essentially looked like this full grown man was hit by something very hard and unexpectedly, it turned him on its side so he was lifted parallel with the ground, then jumped the fence and disappeared with him. Months or years later (I want to say it was under 2 years, but I can't remember exactly) the owner of the property found the guy's other boot far in the swampy area but the person (or his body) was never found. The sad part is that the owner of the construction company was friends with his mother, and I guess gave him the job so after that she thought they did something to her son. The owner was very distraught over the situation from what I recall.

But basically how does a full grown man get carried horizontally over a high fence without making any sound or leaving any other evidence. I think there was some fabric from his orange vest on top of the fence, but other than the boots and pocket contents, that was it. Paulides pointed out that during his time as a cop, he saw bad traffic accidents that could sometime knock people right out of their shoes because of impact, which sounds like how the first boot was found.

This reminds me of another key criteria I don't believe I mentioned in my last post - people wearing brightly colored clothing are much more likely to disappear for some reason.
 
So much for getting "enlightened" by these hallucinogens ... more like getting lost in the woods. Somewhat ironically though, it was a straight person in the search party who fell off the cliff.

Meth is not a hallucinogen, it's generally classified as a psycho-stimulant/amphetamine, there's a pretty significant difference between traditional hallucinogens like LSD or Mushrooms and something like Meth, though I do agree with your general sentiment about drugs not being the path to illumination.
 
Another that comes to mind was a missing road worker (and I believe one of the very very few black people to be kidnapped - it's usually white people for some reason). He was at the end of a line of workers along a road that bordered a wooded property with swampland. When they got down to their truck (or whatever they were doing), they noticed he was gone and no where in sight. They heard and saw nothing.

Yes , I remember reading this story. This was one of the few that happened in the deep south right? I have read only one of the books so far. This was in the book covering the East Coast disappearances. Several other stories along that line of experienced outdoors men who would never have been caught dead in the places they were eventually found in( but they were). IOW they weren't the ones calling the shots in whatever it was that happened. These weren't the types of guys that were attached to the mob or had any enemies . Even if foul play were involved, no common predatory crook would have gone to that kind of trouble.

One thing that Paulides does that leaves me with a hanging feeling is that he seems to know more than he is actually saying. He seems intent to leave the reader hanging to make their own conclusions. Obviously book sales are a priority and he wants a wide readership, so he keeps his ideas to himself in these books. But the big elephant in the room is that he also writes Bigfoot books. Anyone who looks into this author knows he holds a special place for Bigfoot. Did his interest in Bigfoot lead him to write these books? In many of these cases, by using simple deductive reasoning we can eliminate the most common answers. We can further eliminate many of the far fetched answers which leaves us with what? This is the big question.
 
I've been waiting for the books to show on Amazon, but I guess it won't happen. After listening to the Dark Matters interview, I feel compelled to buy a copy or two next pay cycle.
 
FWIW Mastastic, the book I read( The East Coast Missing Persons 411) reads more like a collection of information than the kind of read that pulls a reader into it. It merely lists case after case of missing persons and the facts surrounding the cases. Some people get bored with that kind of a book.Lots of data and comparisons in an attempt to make meaningful sense of it. Some of the cases in the book I read go all the way from the early 1900s to the present.
 
@ Grifynne

I heard on a few of the Paulides shows that another commonality among many cases that there was some kind of physical boundary involved....streams, rivers, boulder fields...But it was brief and he didn't go into context very much. Does he go into any detail in any of his books?
 
So much for getting "enlightened" by these hallucinogens ... more like getting lost in the woods. Somewhat ironically though, it was a straight person in the search party who fell off the cliff.

To be honest I thought this was a pretty hoaky excuse to consider billing the kids...or more likely the family...next thing you know they oc sheriff will press charges regarding the injuries reserve deputy. My feeling is that they didn't rake a hit of Meth then go out and have a transcendental experience in the bush as muadib pointed out BUUUUUT they girl was quoted as saying to a friend before they struck out they were going out on an adventure. But that could mean anything.
 
Meth is not a hallucinogen, it's generally classified as a psycho-stimulant/amphetamine, there's a pretty significant difference between traditional hallucinogens like LSD or Mushrooms and something like Meth, though I do agree with your general sentiment about drugs not being the path to illumination.
That's what I thought too, but I was responding in context of what the article suggests. To quote:
Both of the teenagers said they were delusional and had hallucinated while lost in the wilderness. Neither could recall how they became separated.
 
Pennsylvania currently has about 100,000 coyotes. I heard a rumor of a child being killed by them a few years ago, but until I read something substantial I'll consider that to be rumor. Eastern coyotes are big enough to take small children, but nothing has been confirmed in PA.

The disappearances mentioned above are an interesting topic, though. Most hunters stay as close as possible to roads, and few actually penetrate more than a mile into the woods. Who knows what is possible?

Not sure if anyone posted this but: Canadian folk singer killed by coyotes, park official says - CNN.com

Seems the Eastern Coyotes have been interbreeding with wolves and gaining size and boldness.
 
That's what I thought too, but I was responding in context of what the article suggests. To quote:

I see what you're saying but just to clarify, there are many different compounds, both legal and illegal, that can potentially make a person hallucinate, that doesn't make them hallucinogens. On top of that, people who preach "enlightenment through chemicals" aren't usually referring to things like Crystal Meth, they are referring to things like LSD, Mushrooms, DMT and different research chemicals. Their message is still wrong, (IMO) but I think it's important to differentiate and not misrepresent what people are advocating and nobody, that I know of, is advocating that Crystal Meth is a path to enlightenment.
 
Indeed. I've never tried it, so I cannot speak from personal experience, but from what I've seen, it's a road to nothing more than really bad teeth and an early death.

Ya ... And now apparently we can add to that ... getting lost in the woods and billed for the rescue ... ha ... ha ... ha ... doze brains.
 
Stimulants such as meth, while not being hallucinogens, can lead to very vivid auditory and visual hallucinations when used on a protracted binge. I think it's more the staying awake for 4 days that actually causes hallucinations, basically any drug can do that if it can keep you awake for unnaturally long periods. The brain is just not designed to function well without sleep.

Hey that's an interesting thread idea - sleep - what is it actually for?
 
One thing that Paulides does that leaves me with a hanging feeling is that he seems to know more than he is actually saying. He seems intent to leave the reader hanging to make their own conclusions. Obviously book sales are a priority and he wants a wide readership, so he keeps his ideas to himself in these books. But the big elephant in the room is that he also writes Bigfoot books. Anyone who looks into this author knows he holds a special place for Bigfoot. Did his interest in Bigfoot lead him to write these books? In many of these cases, by using simple deductive reasoning we can eliminate the most common answers. We can further eliminate many of the far fetched answers which leaves us with what? This is the big question.

Here's my feelings on Paulide's approach. I appreciated the fact that he didn't try to cram a theory down anyone's throat. I notice some people have a certain belief system and refuse to deviate from that when sharing information or coming to a conclusion (not necessarily about these cases, but about anything like this).

I think it's important that intelligent people look at this collection of cases objectively and come to their own unbiased conclusions. He has stated at least once or twice on the radio shows that the more he learns, the more complicated it gets. The less likely it seems that one blanket solution could provide the answer. And after reading all three books, I have to agree. There are some I could lump in as classic bigfoot abduction scenarios. Others seem more sinister, almost evil while others could be UFOs or an unknown group/organization (governmental or not, I am not prepared to make that limitation at this point) unethically recruiting, gathering data, etc.

My initial thought was that Paulides believes its bigfoot. But then I read the books and there are numerous cases that don't seem to fit that criteria. I recall the really bizarre story of a woman who came back alive who had the most outlandish experience that involved intelligent beings that could talk who dragged her through the brush and appeared above her with strange lights.

I think Paulides has ideas, but I think he intentionally keeps them to himself and I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing (or something intended to expand readership). The stories are too strange and the criteria is too complicated, and not in a smoke and mirrors sort of way. It's more like being able to see that lines are drawn connecting most if not all of these situations, yet the answers are hiding out on the fringes where our eyes can't see yet.

@ Grifynne

I heard on a few of the Paulides shows that another commonality among many cases that there was some kind of physical boundary involved....streams, rivers, boulder fields...But it was brief and he didn't go into context very much. Does he go into any detail in any of his books?

Yes, those terrain features factor in heavily. Again, Paulides pushes no conclusion. I really don't think he knows for certain. I am sure he has some idea, but I don't think he has anything concrete or even anything that can be neatly summed up. Some people think water is an energy source, which could be drawing something in from another dimension. The boulder field thing I found especially odd. I mean what's out there other than rocks? If we want to run with the energy conductor theory, then I wonder if any of those fields consist of a specific type of mineral that could have a similar effect as water? This was never stated by Paulides, it's just my thoughts (and some things that went through my mind as I read the books). It could be as simple as a species that finds rocks easier to hide in, so it frequents those areas.

The books are pretty straightforward in terms of format. He usually opens with some brief information on how the cases are clustered and how he notates various criteria within each case. The majority of it is the case details. These are usually presented with the basics (age, location, name, date, cluster, etc.), a description of the incident from start to finish (if the person was or was not found) and a conclusions area where Paulides comments on why the case was included, what factors made it strange and any other relevant details that help put things in perspective in the larger picture.

Cases are grouped by location with some sections focused on a specific demographic, such as sheep herders, berry pickers and coeds. The third book also had a few brief updates on cases that may have had new developments (I can't recall if those were in the first two, but I have the third in front of me as I type this. :)).

Just to clarify the one case I outlined earlier, I took four pics of the pages that the case appears on in my Missing 411 North American and Beyond (the 3rd book in the series). I will share those in a separate post to keep things organized.

I've been waiting for the books to show on Amazon, but I guess it won't happen. After listening to the Dark Matters interview, I feel compelled to buy a copy or two next pay cycle.

Mastastic - my understanding is they will never be available on Amazon. I just picked them up one at a time (since shelling out $75 all at once can be a bit much). You can really read them in any order, but I do suggest trying the east and west coast specific books first (the first two). If I recall correctly, the third one sometimes refers back to cases or items mentioned in those.
 
Hopefully this is ok to do to. Just to make sure everything is properly credited, the following pages are from Missing 411: North America and Beyond by David Paulides available for sale here. This is the story I mentioned previously. I think I said there were two girls that originally went missing but I believe I was confusing that element with another case. And I apologize for the crappy quality of the images:

Page 1:
http://cdn-3-service.phanfare.com/images/9493393_6053309_186099126_WebLarge_2/Image-9493393-186099126-2-WebLarge_0_1e702882031bd9222779003c2744a351_1

Page 2:
http://cdn-3-service.phanfare.com/images/9493393_6053309_186099129_WebSmall_2/Image-9493393-186099129-2-WebSmall_0_368571c981cd4a5407afe4bcd90a64e9_1

Page 3:
http://cdn-3-service.phanfare.com/images/9493393_6053309_186099135_Web_2/Image-9493393-186099135-2-Web_0_7797dc9fd8fd05a99ede0f9bf853be42_1

Page 4:
http://cdn-3-service.phanfare.com/images/9493393_6053309_186099154_WebSmall_2/Image-9493393-186099154-2-WebSmall_0_6f36908989ac7e0139baba86a9d29a4b_1


(Sorry, I would have actually added the image here instead of the URL but they are WAYYY too huge and I wanted to make sure they were easy to read)
 
Thanks for your reply. On his appearances he briefly mentioned these features but his approach was that said features were ideal to hide the tracks of any predator (and that is what we are probably dealing with in many cases.) And this is a very thoughtful, pragmatic reason. But I latched onto these mentions from a high strangeness aspect in that in many reports of paranormal events there are boundaries involved as far as the reach of the phenomena.
 
But I latched onto these mentions from a high strangeness aspect in that in many reports of paranormal events there are boundaries involved as far as the reach of the phenomena.

That's probably something to keep in mind, since some of these just seem so beyond the conventional. I don't believe any mention was made of physical borders around crime scenes when a body is found or cluster areas, but then again it could be something we haven't yet identified because we aren't looking for it. Some of the cluster areas are quite large (like most of my home state back in the 50s). I believe there were also some that seemed to surround an area that had nothing going on within it. Sort of like how a serial killer might try to keep things away from home where people would recognize them. This is out in the wilderness, so it is probably much more difficult to identify if some sort of physical border exists in these situations if it is more subtle. Interesting thought though, since the same elements keep appearing.

I wonder, from the paranormal perspective, does the physical border have to be solid? I mean like a solid ring of rock for example to contain something in an area? Or a complete ring of water to do the same? Or is it possible that the physical object has a reach beyond its physical dimensions (say, for example, an area dotted in rocky protrusions and outcroppings could form a crude barrier even though there isn't one complete wall of rock, would just the presence of a specific material every 10, 20 or 30 feet or so have the same effect)? Hopefully I said that right :P It makes sense in my mind. :confused:
 
Well i can't think of any particular event but in many cases where people report of being chased by ghosts creatures etc. in either folktales or alllegedly true encounters once somebody got past a bridge, over a stream etc. the pursuit was broken off. I heard of several stories (tales) involving people being threatened while exploring the superstition mountains and they felt threatened and endangered until they got to a certain point and the threat disappeared as quickly as it came on.


Also there would seem to be some boundaries involved on MT. Shasta involving hikers and where they are "allowed" to go off trail.
 
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