Osama bin laden dead?

[Slim Shady]

Abit off topic but i know you guys will like this one:

 

[mike]

Abit off topic but i know you guys will like this one:

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/04/coming-soon-from-the-air-force-mind-reading-drones/

Coming Soon From the Air Force: Mind-Reading Drones


The Air Force theorist Col. John Boyd created the concept of an “OODA Loop,” for “Observation, Orientation, Decision and Action” to guide pilots’ operations. Never would he have thought one of his loops would be designed into the artificial brain of an airborne robot.

 

[iamfrank]

No second light source hey??? Hhhmmm....

DON'T BELIEVE THE TRUTH!!!

So Last night on all the news Chanel's around the globe, we now see that the American government has now changed it's original version of events over the alleged assassination of the world's most wanted man??? It was to be expected, and be prepared for more changes.

It's simply Roswell all over again, first nothing happened and there was never any Flying Saucer that crashed in the New Mexico Desert in 1947. Then it did happen, but it was just a balloon, then it was a top secret weather balloon, then it was a super top secret weather balloon, then it changed to it been a mogul balloon. Then there was the issue of the dead aliens, seen by many witnesses who came forward in later years, including official military personnel, but again, NO there was NO alien corpse's involved, then it changed to ....actually it was crash test dummies that were seen, but as we all know, crash test dummies were not used by the military until the early 1950's. So when it comes to the American government expecting us to believe anything they throw at us, their credibility is pretty damn low, and don't forget they spent millions of dollars on the 2 final Roswell reports, why would you do that if all that crashed was a weather balloon???

Last night we get news also that the American government has now decided NOT to release any photos of a dead Osama Bin Laden, they claim we can't handle it, and the photos are too shocking for the world to see??? But we all remember 9/11, and the images splattered all over our TV screens played out on a 24 hour loop, showing probably the worlds most shocking footage to date, but hey it's OK to see that footage, bit strange don't you think???

What they mean is that, they can't release any photos because we would be all over them like a rash, and they would be quickly debunked as crude fakes.

They can't and dare not risk another moon landing fiasco, NO stars in any of the photos, a flag flapping in the wind when their is suppose to be not wind or atmosphere what so ever on the moon, shadows at different angles proving that there was more than 1 light source, cross hairs behind objects, photos of very dark areas taken in the shade but lit from the front, proof of a second or third light source, NOT a speck of dust on the landing pod, NO blast crater when touching down, or taking off, watch the footage it is pulled up on a rope, we see the same area of moon in many different photos and footage, yet they were meant to be taken thousands of miles apart, and the list goes on and on. The whole thing is just the world's most expensive movie ever made, costing billions of dollars to simply win a propaganda space race with the Russians.

Take a look also at the recent news footage showing Osama Bin Ladens compound, we see it from inside and from outside. We are told that a raging gun battle lasted for 40 minutes, yet you do NOT see a single bullet hole anywhere, plus you see no bullet shells on the floor??? Surely the whole mansion would be riddled to pieces with bullet holes after such a ferocious gun battle don't you think, take a close look for yourself.

Marilyn Monroe and JFK, that was an inside job, it was all to do with UFOS, they simply knew too much so had to be taken out of the loop. Face Book, many people don't know this, but it was actually originally designed and set up by the CIA as a tool to monitor people, some believe that they still run it today??? From where else but the notorious AREA-51 where Osama Bin Laden is now been interrogated, fact.

SO REMEMBER, TRUST NO ONE AND BELIEVE NOTHING!

This Photo has been circulating around the internet for a day or so, claiming to show Bin Laden holding a recent newspaper. It is a crude fake, Photo-Shopped simply using the same photo of him from elsewhere, sad really that people will go to these lengths.

 

[muse]

Frank, you need a hobby, one that doesn't involve trolling forums and writing utter crap.

 

[Ron Collins]

Abit off topic but i know you guys will like this one:

I love the Onion!

 

[dr.abbadon]

I live in Australia and we can't begin to imagine what Americans went through with 911. However the rest of the world sees osama as the boogeyman the cia created. My question is and I don't mean to be ignorant, but what evidence was presented to any court that Osama bin laden was responsible for 911? If he was responsible why didn't he get a trial in a court of law so that those responsible with him and were complicit could be brought to trial. Now there is no way of finding out the truth...ever!

When was it legal to assassinate anyone, let alone the persons innocent family?

 

[muse]

From ABC news:

"At Nuremberg, the allies put on trial some of the world's worst war criminals. Men like Hermann Goering, Albert Speer and Julius Streicher were not only Hitler's loyal lieutenants; they were involved in the use of slave labour and the killing of six million Jews in the Holocaust.

But rather than subject them to summary execution, the US president Harry Truman gave the trials his strong backing. An American lawyer, Benjamin Ferencz was one of the prosecutors at Nuremberg. Now, at 91, he's written a letter to The New York Times.

He says the trials earned worldwide respect by giving Hitler's worst henchmen a fair trial so that truth would be revealed and justice under law would prevail. And 65 years later he says the US should again have supported a trial of the world's most wanted international criminal, Osama bin Laden.

BENJAMIN FERENCZ: It's a right that we give to every mass murderer and always have. This is what distinguishes us from the tyrants."

What's done is done - but I would have liked to see Bin Laden put on trial for crimes against humanity. I know, I know - some will say that would have given him a platform from which to speak; some will say he didn't give the victims of his terrorism a fair trial before executing them; and some will say a trial would be too expensive not only in terms of money but also emotionally.

 

[Doug B]

Agreed, Ron. However, it would be a pretty neat move to fake his death and then use the time to interrogate him. Sounds like a bad movie, but who knows.

 

[cottonzway]

Still waiting for pictures of death. Truth is I really want to believe he was killed last week. I have been more on the fence about some of political views lately trying to be more grounded on these subjects. I don't want to have such a negative opinion of the government, but I expect far better then what is presented. Regardless of all of this I loathe OBL for being one of the primary leaders that allowed our shitty foreign policy to come to fruition. Just stop this nonsense and provide pictures. So far the way this has been handled is shady as hell.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."- Carl Sagan

I am not even asking for that. I am asking for something they claim to have that would go a long way in brining some trust when people are not very trusting. Put out the pictures for the whole world to see. Prove my concerns wrong.

 

[dr.abbadon]

I can't understand the pre occupation with thinking that this man's death is going to bring peace to the world. The foreign policies of the US government who have invaded country after country are to blame for these people coming into existence. How many innocent women and children have died in Iraq because Bush, Cheney & Rumsfeld wanted to control the middle east and fund the military industrial complex of the US? You don't see the Iraqi people issuing a death warrant and executing them on US soil?

 

[Angel of Ioren]

Still waiting for pictures of death. Truth is I really want to believe he was killed last week. I have been more on the fence about some of political views lately trying to be more grounded on these subjects. I don't want to have such a negative opinion of the government, but I expect far better then what is presented. Regardless of all of this I loathe OBL for being one of the primary leaders that allowed our shitty foreign policy to come to fruition. Just stop this nonsense and provide pictures. So far the way this has been handled is shady as hell.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."- Carl Sagan

I am not even asking for that. I am asking for something they claim to have that would go a long way in brining some trust when people are not very trusting. Put out the pictures for the whole world to see. Prove my concerns wrong.

Extraordinary evidence: I'd say DNA evidence, along with Al-Qaeda acknowledging his death are more than enough.

Also, you need to ask yourself if you will believe anything your government says.

By the way, please don't use a Carl Sagan quote to support something that he would have found laughable. When Sagan said that he meant something truly extra-ordinary - i.e. Alien life visiting us, life after death, or anything that defies the know laws of the universe.
That an elite America special forces team used intel to discover the location of a terrorist and shot and killed him in not beyond the realm of possibility. You need to place your skepticism in stuff that actually deserves skepticism.

 

[cottonzway]

BS. Provide the pics. It's unacceptable to make this claim, say you have them, and not provide them.

DNA confirmed by whom? Last week not a single person would take the "word" of someone from Al-Qaeda, but now they are Abe fucking Lincoln. They are irrational terrorists who look for EVERY REASON to spew a reason for hate and a call for violence. They will use this for nothing different.

Yes it requires extraordinary evidence when a claim that the most wanted man in the world was just chilling in a giant compound for years. We have spent TRILLIONS of dollars on absurd wars because of this man. When I go to the airport I have to be harassed by goons now because of this man. You OWE the people of the world FULL DISCLOSURE on this. If you have pics, they release them. Otherwise it looks like they have something to hide, yet again.

Hell, the previous White House LIED us into a war that every single person who is not some right-wing partisan hack knows was a lie about WMDs. So you are damn right I expect when making a claim like this is made I expect facts put on the table. So far there has been nothing but distortions and excuses on this whole thing. Release the pics and give me a reason to trust that my concerns about this are not needed and all of this went down at least close to as told.

 

[mike]

Extraordinary evidence: I'd say DNA evidence, along with Al-Qaeda acknowledging his death are more than enough.

Also, you need to ask yourself if you will believe anything your government says.

By the way, please don't use a Carl Sagan quote to support something that he would have found laughable. When Sagan said that he meant something truly extra-ordinary - i.e. Alien life visiting us, life after death, or anything that defies the know laws of the universe.
That an elite America special forces team used intel to discover the location of a terrorist and shot and killed him in not beyond the realm of possibility. You need to place your skepticism in stuff that actually deserves skepticism.

Angelo....mate, telling people not to use a quote is censorship, by all means point out the fallacy behind its use if you feel thats the case, but specific instructions not to use it, reeks of censorship.

I didnt find that quote to be out of context, and its one i use myself often.

I take your point that the claim that Laden Bin is dead is not that extraordinary, and that the evidence presented is reasonable enough proof. But your admonition not to use that quote comes across as overly prohibitive, and im sure that wasnt your intent.
We cant really know whether or not Sagan would have considered the claim (hes dead ) is extraordinary or not

---------- Post added at 01:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:27 PM ----------

BS. Provide the pics. It's unacceptable to make this claim, say you have them, and not provide them.

DNA confirmed by whom? Last week not a single person would take the "word" of someone from Al-Qaeda, but now they are Abe fucking Lincoln. They are irrational terrorists who look for EVERY REASON to spew a reason for hate and a call for violence. They will use this for nothing different.

Yes it requires extraordinary evidence when a claim that the most wanted man in the world was just chilling in a giant compound for years. We have spent TRILLIONS of dollars on absurd wars because of this man. When I go to the airport I have to be harassed by goons now because of this man. You OWE the people of the world FULL DISCLOSURE on this. If you have pics, they release them. Otherwise it looks like they have something to hide, yet again.

Hell, the previous White House LIED us into a war that every single person who is not some right-wing partisan hack knows was a lie about WMDs. So you are damn right I expect when making a claim like this is made I expect facts put on the table. So far there has been nothing but distortions and excuses on this whole thing. Release the pics and give me a reason to trust that my concerns about this are not needed and all of this went down at least close to as told.

I think the fact that Al-Qaeda confirms his death

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/05/06/3210316.htm

Is good enough, it is for me at least.
The home videos released also make me think this is genuine news.
At the end of the day we only have the media to go by, photo's of his death were faked years ago, new ones will prove nothing.

For what its worth i think he is dead.

 

[Doug B]

I agree with your general sentiment, dr. But things are much to complex, don't you think, to be able to say anything about the foreign policies of any country as being the primary and/or exclusive cause to the ills of the world? If the tables were turned, would the nations that have limited power (financially and/or militarily) now be any different than the U.S. is? Sadly, I doubt it. "If I were King", things would be so different as I suspect they would be if you were?

I, for one, am not sad that bin Laden is dead. Fanatics of any religious group are an anathema to any just society, but so too is the spending on the military.

Peace.

 

[inc0gneato]

Speaking of Trust, I'm watching War Made Easy, based on a book by Norman Solomon and narrated by Sean Penn. It's a documentary exposing the government's and the media's history of deceiving the American people and leading the nation into war after war. It's on Netflix, so far, excellent flick, made me think of this thread, I highly recommend it. It ties in well with this thread because how can you trust people who lie to your face on a daily basis even in the face of proof and logic? By saying that, I again say I believe Osama Bin Laden is dead, but how much is reality, how much is fantasy, and how much is outright lies to manipulate us?

Here's a quote from Colin Powell, a man I once trusted and respected... "Trust me!" Powell was explaining some chart that he said was completely made up but based on legitimate information. Powell said that the chart had been made up so that the Iraqi's wouldn't be able to figure out what we knew. Hmmm, probably more likely made up to lead us to a war that was not necessary because PNAC wanted it. FWIW

Here's another quote, "We American's are the ultimate innocents. We are forever desperate to believe that this time the government is telling us the truth." - Sydney Shanberg, Former New York Times Reporter.

 

[Angel of Ioren]

Angelo....mate, telling people not to use a quote is censorship, by all means point out the fallacy behind its use if you feel thats the case, but specific instructions not to use it, reeks of censorship.

You can quote whomever you want. I was just pointing out that the way Sagan used it is not in the context of things that are possible. I was not trying to censor anyone. If some does something that goes against the forum rules, i send them a PM. Cotton has NOT done anything wrong and is one of the more respectful members of the forum. I don't agree with him on this point, but that's the point of discussing it in the forum.

---------- Post added at 08:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:12 AM ----------

BS. Provide the pics. It's unacceptable to make this claim, say you have them, and not provide them.

DNA confirmed by whom? Last week not a single person would take the "word" of someone from Al-Qaeda, but now they are Abe fucking Lincoln. They are irrational terrorists who look for EVERY REASON to spew a reason for hate and a call for violence. They will use this for nothing different.

Yes it requires extraordinary evidence when a claim that the most wanted man in the world was just chilling in a giant compound for years. We have spent TRILLIONS of dollars on absurd wars because of this man. When I go to the airport I have to be harassed by goons now because of this man. You OWE the people of the world FULL DISCLOSURE on this. If you have pics, they release them. Otherwise it looks like they have something to hide, yet again.

Hell, the previous White House LIED us into a war that every single person who is not some right-wing partisan hack knows was a lie about WMDs. So you are damn right I expect when making a claim like this is made I expect facts put on the table. So far there has been nothing but distortions and excuses on this whole thing. Release the pics and give me a reason to trust that my concerns about this are not needed and all of this went down at least close to as told.

If they did release pictures, would you just trust that they are real? You don't seem to trust the presented evidence.

 

[tyder001]

Wow, y'all still on this? Dudes waxed! I don't agree with not releashing the photos and I think a real live idiot rotting in jail waiting on death row would have been preferable to a quick merciful shot to the head. But, I wasn't there so I don't know all the circumstances. Anyway, just to pop in here a minute on the "extra" ordinary evidence stuff that I hear all the time. Evidence of a u.f.o. or evidence of life after death or evidence of physic ability is unto itself extraodinary. But, then again so was evidence that mankind could fly just a short while (relativly speaking) ago. So, that term is a bit of a deceptive term. The evidence just has to be evidence and the "wait" for "extra" ordinary evidence is a red herring that "some" skeptics use to evade looking at the research with objectivity. Not saying any or all or some of the things I listed are true or not. Just saying I have never thought the term (oh lawd 4 give me saint sagan) was a very realistic or even "logical" term.

 

[Angel of Ioren]

Wow, y'all still on this? Dudes waxed! I don't agree with not releashing the photos and I think a real live idiot rotting in jail waiting on death row would have been preferable to a quick merciful shot to the head. But, I wasn't there so I don't know all the circumstances. Anyway, just to pop in here a minute on the "extra" ordinary evidence stuff that I hear all the time. Evidence of a u.f.o. or evidence of life after death or evidence of physic ability is unto itself extraodinary. But, then again so was evidence that mankind could fly just a short while (relativly speaking) ago. So, that term is a bit of a deceptive term. The evidence just has to be evidence and the "wait" for "extra" ordinary evidence is a red herring that "some" skeptics use to evade looking at the research with objectivity. Not saying any or all or some of the things I listed are true or not. Just saying I have never thought the term (oh lawd 4 give saint sagan) was a very realistic or even "logical" term.

You right on there Tyder.
Before it was proven that an airplane could be built, extra-ordinary evidence would have been necessary. At the turn of the century I would have been saying the Wright brothers were full of it until I saw it, and then I would have said, "Well look at that, they can fly, I was wrong."

Sometimes, being able to say that you were wrong is more important than saying that you were right.

 

[inc0gneato]

If they did release pictures, would you just trust that they are real? You don't seem to trust the presented evidence.

There are ways to tell if pictures are forgeries, but it would depend on the totality of the evidence. Judging by the news of the past week or so it's not just "conspiracy theorists" who are asking these questions, it's other governments and even some in the press. I think Al Qaeda admitting he's dead proves he's dead, but again the handling of the announcement and the aftermath leave many unanswered questions about trust. I trust evidence, but really what evidence has been presented thus far?

Ugh, I hate how the forums log you out so quickly!

This isn't a conspiracy like who killed Kennedy, what really happened on 9/11, the NWO, the Illuminati, or any of countless others. This should be easy to prove or disprove. The real question here is why lie about it? And if they are not going to present the evidence it just further degrades peoples already minimal trust in the government. The answers that they've trotted out so far about not presenting evidence are easily debunked with logic and seem to be a smoke screen (nothing to see over here folks). Bullshit! 1) Pictures would inflame the terrorists and they would attack us! Gasp! The terrorists will attack us regardless of who their current leader is, it's about ideology not leadership, someone will step in and fill the void. 2) It would make him a martyr. He already is a martyr and always would have been if we killed him, see number 1. 3) Quick burial at sea because no country would take his body during the time required by Islamic law for burial. I agree somewhat with burial at sea because no shrine in his honor could be created. However, his family did request the body, one could assume that they had some idea of where he might be buried, but wonder how well they would have fared with getting him buried within 24 hours of his death according to Islamic practice. 3) And lastly my favorite so far, from President Obama "we don't need to spike the football!" Really? Wow a sports analogy. I am underwhelmed, do I even need to address that?

 

[Angel of Ioren]

NPR's On the Media had a lot of insight on this topic. I highly recommend people give it a listen.
On The Media: This Week