Paracast bounces back with Marcel Jnr & listener Mike! - Sun 16th, Nov. 2008

[Kieran]

I enjoyed both halves of this episode immensely.

Mike, I salute your bravery for going on (inter)national (radio) broad(/pod)casting with your story.

However, something that sticks in my craw.

When Mike defers and says up front, "I can't believe these experiences as real, even as I hear myself saying it, it sounds unbelievable", essentially saying, "I don't know if these actually happened or if they were some other state of mind/reality", how is this different from Whitley Streiber?

Whitley has been all too forthcoming about how he isn't sure his experiences are real, or what kind of reality they're in, only that they're damned weird, and he's sure that something damned odd happened to him--and he gets crucified for it.

But Mike, because he's a pal, a mensch that we know and love, well, he sounds credible, and we can see the scar on his nose.

So, you know, he's okay.

But that Streiber guy--he's written books about it, so he must be lying. Especially because he wrote bestselling book after bestselling book, and he's still not sure in what state of reality those "abductions" took place.

Mike himself said, the closer that you get to the craft, the more reality peels away... who knows what the hell is going on there? Why is Mike more believable than Whit, when the former would have been laughed off the show without the latter having been first?

Why is Whitley castigated and subjected to all the sneers and jeers when he was the one that made it okay for Mike to "come out of the cockpit" himself? And everybody else, too? As Mike mentioned, these days, more or less, people will not only tolerate your story, but you'll likely as not be supported rather than ridiculed. This stuff used to break up marriages, destroy lives, ruin businesses and drove some to suicide.

I don't understand the double standard, and frankly, I think Whitley deserves an apology because, for some arbitrary reason, he didn't pass the sniff test.

Mike, again, I salute you on your bravery and your coming forward on the show. It was not only entertaining, but informative and widens the horizon on the entire phenomenon.

You are compareing mike to whitley strieber too different cases too different realitys. Whitley streiber claims to have travelled by way of a pick up truck to two distant worlds" In my world that is insane.Yes guys this subject is weird, and some of the details of this phenomen dont make sense.
But whitleys reality is way out, and beyond any reality i believe or care to think exists.

I Honestly believe he may have had some type of paranormal event, but through the years he has developed a story around that encounter. It just my opinion and my opinion is no less or higher than anyone elses.

I think if you go on to utube, and listen to him tell his story about the "greys", u will soon realise his story makes no sense. To me Clifford stone has more credibility than whitley streiber, that says alot since i believe neither are geniune.

 

[Gareth]

Nice description Mike.

He's a very good writer capable of creating eerie and dramtic moods in his work. I think this same skill can work against him, he's simply TOO good at telling a story, and it can come across as overly theatrical.

This makes sense to me. If Whitley uses his writing and story telling skills while conveying his own experiences it might come across as contrived, or suspiciously fiction like.

One question though... Does he talk about the drones much, and if so what does he say about them?

One thing that annoys me about certain 'personalities' in this field like Strieber or Moulten-Howe, is their apparent lack of respect for anyone not in their cliquey circle. Surely they would have heard that an image expert guy whos ex-ILM has analysed the drone images and declared them to be CG? Why wouldnt they take this on board? Is it because they get too emotionally attached to the story and are past the point of no return, despite any contrary evidence that comes their way?

 

[mikec]

Are Whitley Strieber and Linda Moulton Howe too quick to "believe" some of the stuff out there? I'll say yes, sometimes. But, so am I, sometimes.

= = =


Oh Jeeeez, the drones.

This is something very strange.

Here's my take.

1) The photos are fake, but WHY?

2) The CARROT documents are fake, but WHY?

3) The witness accounts (lot of them) are REAL. Real people, using their REAL names are coming forward and telling the same story with very similar and exacting details. Linda Moulton Howe has interviewed these people, and the audio is easily downloaded from her site (Earthfiles.com Headline News). Before someone on this site goes ballistic and only talks about the fake photos, listen to these interviews. They are very consistent and VERY strange.


MY HYPOTHESIS:

The government spent BILLIONS each year on secret stuff, right? These drones aren't really doing anything that exotic when you consider all the hard work that smart engineers have been doing for decades.

So - I think the witness are SEEING real things, but they are made by human technicians with a big budget.

For reasons that I can only speculate on - someone is flooding the internet with fake photos, and a fake government document. That carrot document is pretty interesting in it's level of slickness.

So, if a witness sees a man-made "drone" and it gets reported, it is lumped in with the easily faked photos, and the curiously faked document. Now, the witness account can be dismissed outright because it IN THE SAME POOL as the outright phony stuff.




any thoughts?

M!

 

[Gareth]

Actually I agree that there is something going on with the actual drone sightings. I listened to all those earthfiles interviews before I saw a single photo or heard about the CARET site.

There were so many people with a similar story that there has to be something going on. To think all those people go together for a hoax doesnt really hold up.

But it would be really easy for someone to hear about these stories and make a 3D model for a laugh.

PS. Mikec have you looked at that image that tells you whether you use left or right brain? Im curious what you see being a visual artist.

 

[mikec]

PS. Mikec have you looked at that image that tells you whether you use left or right brain? Im curious what you see being a visual artist.


Gareth,

You mean the outline of a vase with the negative space siloette of a face? That image?

And - I think the left side of my brain is just a little shriveled raisin, displaced by my bloated bulging right brain.

MikeC!

 

[Gareth]

Check the chat thread, Aaron posted a test thing where yo ulook at a rotating picture.

 

[mikec]

I just re-listened to the interview of mine from Nov. 16th.

I apologize for the cryptic part at the end of the interview. I sort of talked about my conversation with David, but I did NOT share the actual story.

I'll fill you in a little bit more here. It had to do with an event late one night in Jan. 2001. At the time I was living with my girlfriend, we have since broken up, but we are on good terms and we talk often on the phone. The experience happened late one night when we were together in bed. We were suddenly and abruptly awake - and (well) - in the act of (you know) having sex.

The waking up was very strange and jarring.

At the time, I remember thinking to myself: "They're here, they're watching..."


Other details:
___________

* We NEVER talked about it. Actually, months later I remember she asked me about that night, saying: "Wasn't that weird?" and I didn't really respond.

* When we did talk about it, about 6 years later (on the phone) she re-told the events EXACTLY as I remembered it.

* I asked Budd Hopkins about this event, and he rolled his eyes and re-told me stories from his research that matched (in a way) exactly. perplexing.

* I asked Dave Jacobs about this event. He was a little bit cagey (not wanting to lead me with any stories) but he told me in no uncertain terms, that although my story was unusual, it fit into a pattern he had seen in his research.

* After talking to Budd, I had a dread-filled heart sinking feeling. I explained what I was feeling, and he called it "confirmation anxiety"

* This story, more than anything else (after talking with Budd) felt like a slap in the face, sort of a realization that denial wasn't possible anymore.


So - - - If folks were curious, there's the story.

My question to you the listeners, have you ever heard of this before? Just curious.

 

[Ally]

Thanks for bringing up an uncomfortable subject. I haven't heard of this particular aspect from other people but maybe others have.

 

[Blacknight]

Mikec:

We were suddenly and abruptly awake - and (well) - in the act of (you know) having sex

Sorry, a bit unclear to me. Do you mean you were both asleep when you were awakened to find you were engaged in sex? If so, why would that raise a concern that would cause you to discuss it over many years and raise it with Hopkins? Was it only disturbing because you had a sense of being watched? Or were you both sensing that you'd been manipulated against your will? Was it only because of your experience history that it registered as unusual, rather than just different?

I will admit to similar "sleepy" experiences but mine usually end up with my wife yelling "Get the hell off me!".

 

[mikec]

(my replies noted with a little * )



1) Do you mean you were both asleep when you were awakened to find you were engaged in sex?

* Yes - abruptly awakened, both of us, at the same time.

=

2) If so, why would that raise a concern that would cause you to discuss it over many years and raise it with Hopkins?

* It was SO weird.

I had a conversation previously with Dave Jacobs, and he said: "If you want to find out if someone has had abduction experiences, you don't need to ask a bout UFO's or aliens, just ask 'What's the strangest thing that's ever happened to you?' and when they answer that, you'll know."

It crossed my mind (later) that my girlfriend at the time would have answered that question, with our night-time / bedroom story.

=

3) Was it only disturbing because you had a sense of being watched?

* No, it felt a little like that, but the situation was just outright weird too.

=

4) Or were you both sensing that you'd been manipulated against your will?

* I didn't actually feel that way (well, maybe, hard to say), but I realize that it's sort of implied...

=

5) Was it only because of your experience history that it registered as unusual, rather than just different?

* It registered because Dave Jacobs asked me: "Any other unusual stories in your life?" At the time I said no, but this story surfaced a day or so later...

 

[mike]

reminds me of the incident with the perished rubber wet suit, 2 kilos of slightly overripe bananas, the sheet of black garden plastic and a bottle of extra virgin olive oil, but i digress

ive been woken in this manner and always assumed my partners were the instigators, and i myself have used the same technique with good sucess rates.

my brother used to get up in the middle of the night and run a bath and get in, we'd find him sitting there pajamas and all with a dazed expresion on his face.

i guess a logical question would be what "position" was it, the theory being some are more likely than others to occur "naturally".

one could for example postulate that in the spoon position a male with nocturnal erection might initiate the "activity" in a sleepwalker type phase.

 

[mikec]

During the audio interview, I was pretty clear that I was NOT comfortable talking about the event in Jan '01.

I was hesitant to share it on the forum, but it seemed like I was purposely deceptive when talking with Gene and Dave (and the listening audience). I didn't like the feeling that I was hiding something, and it left me feeling - well - dishonest in a way.

In the posting above, I use the phrase: "dread-filled heart sinking feeling" to describe the emotional response I had when I carefully reviewed this event with Budd. I did NOT like the implications. It was scary, and it involved someone I care deeply about.

I thought long and hard before adding this story to the forum. It took some nerve on my part, knowing full well I was opening myself up to ridicule.

Now I wish I had kept it to myself...




.

 

[mike]

Understandable,
and for what its worth i wasnt trying to ridicule you, rather i was using humour as an approach to a subject thats difficult.
nor was i trying to debunk the matter, simply trying to reach a nuts and bolts understanding of the reality as described.

 

[Blacknight]

Mikec:

I had a conversation previously with Dave Jacobs, and he said: "If you want to find out if someone has had abduction experiences, you don't need to ask a bout UFO's or aliens, just ask 'What's the strangest thing that's ever happened to you?' and when they answer that, you'll know."

That's interesting. I've been subjected to absolutely no inexplicable events, ever. I've had things I couldn't explain at the moment, like everyone. (In, probably, 1968, I was with 4 or 5 other guys, all of us 16, 17 years old, completely "aware". We saw three very large objects, three different colors, each begin as pinpoints in the night sky and almost explode into very large objects which appeared to be descending on us. We ran like all hell broke loose. Our first "guess" was that it was some sort of airplane explosion immediately above us, but there was no sound. When we got to cooler heads we found it was a completely explicable occurrence.)

But with this statement of yours I recall--although, honestly, I've never NOT been aware of it, just have always assumed it was just some form of hallucination because I got pretty ill right afterward--something odd that did happen to me when I was, I guess, about 18. My grandmother, an Italian immigrant, lived with us in the same house, second floor. She was downstairs and sent me upstairs for something. In her little kitchen I saw a "little man", pretty much what's now the usual grey, against the far wall. Then it was gone, just not there. Of course this was after the publicity around the Hill case so it wasn't like I hadn't been subjected to that iconic image before that. And it was so quick, maybe 10 seconds or so, that it was hard to grasp it as anything other than an hallucination.

And as I think about it, a few years earlier my brother was at a school dance until pretty late one weekend night. He came running in claiming he saw a flying saucer moving across the adjacent schoolyard. He described it to me as looking just like the movie-style saucer. He was shaken and we went outside to look but there was nothing there. We lived in a very densely populated area of New Jersey so I made the point that someone else would have to have seen it too; but there was nothing in the papers the next day. (Also, he was fond of not necessarily-legal substances so I never really gave it much credence) He's long deceased, so no asking him for more details.

Anyway I haven't really thought about either of these in decades, except in passing and I've never really shared either. In any case, your post made me consider this incident. I didn't really think about my brother's "scare" until I was writing this post. What intrigues me about your comment is that it's possible--although not likely I think--that I misconstrued or misinterpreted these as "normal" incidents when perhaps they weren't. Guess I'll never know for sure, but it does raise a small possibility for me, that these were actually something beyond my usual range of experience, that I hadn't considered before. I suppose it's just as possible we can misconstrue the normal as paranormal as it is vice versa.

 

[Gareth]

In her little kitchen I saw a "little man", pretty much what's now the usual grey, against the far wall. Then it was gone, just not there. Of course this was after the publicity around the Hill case so it wasn't like I hadn't been subjected to that iconic image before that.

Correct me if Im wrong but I thought that iconic 'grey' imagery wasnt introduced until the cover of Communion...? Also, (again, could be wrong) but the Hills saw human looking beings didnt they? I dont remember any mention of the classic grey...

And as I think about it, a few years earlier my brother was at a school dance until pretty late one weekend night. He came running in claiming he saw a flying saucer moving across the adjacent schoolyard. He described it to me as looking just like the movie-style saucer. He was shaken and we went outside to look but there was nothing there. We lived in a very densely populated area of New Jersey so I made the point that someone else would have to have seen it too; but there was nothing in the papers the next day. (Also, he was fond of not necessarily-legal substances so I never really gave it much credence) He's long deceased, so no asking him for more details.

Im of the opinion that drugs dont necessarily make you see things that arent there (sometimes I guess), but they can often open up your perceptions so you see things that are there, but you normally cant see them. Others may disagree Im sure.

 

[Gareth]

You raise some good points. I have trouble with the whole Kenneth Arnold thing too, but what saves me is the fact that a disk shaped craft is the most structurally strong shape, and the fact that people truly have seen round craft in the sky.

I chalk this up to a semi-coincidence. People assuming Arnold saw disk shapes because of how common this type of sighting has been dont realise the error. But I dont think its a case of psychological extrapolation based on Arnolds words.