Philip Imbrogno Interview

[Kieran]

I was listening to the interview Don, and what amazed me was how Similar the Djinn stories he talked about are to Irish legends of the Tuatha de dannann. I'm actually quiet taken back by it to me honest.
In Irish legends the Tuatha de dannann were exiled from the planet just as the Djinn were.
"Honestly Guys i have never come across any known Cultural mythology that would closely resemble Irish Folklore until now.
There is Legends of the Tuatha were it is claimed they went underground to a spiritual Kingdom of some kind after fighting a war with a human tribe called the Milesian's.
But there is also legends that speak of wars between other races on the planet and they were not human.
According to Philip the stories he heard claim the Djinn were fighting other beings and perhaps Human's at some point in early history, and the Djinn perhaps or maybe were exiled perhaps by these Humans and Philip said the beings could hold some grudge towards humans for being banished to this other world? You don't need to be a genius to figure there is some strange similarities to be found in the stories Philip heard in Saudi Arabia and the stories i have talked about numerous times in other threads

There is also Legends that say the Tuatha travelled through portals to the Fairy World ( a parallel world) a world very near to or own. The legends claim. They left after doing battle with humans long ago. The Djinn coming through portals near caves the tuatha went undrground through mounds and hill and Mountains. I don't know maybe we have the same race in action on opposite sides of the World in pre recorded history.?

In the Bible. The Tuatha de dannann are the lost tribe of Israel or the Tribe of Dan. Also known as the "Fallen Angels" Djinn legends talk about fallen Angels. Both stories are alike.

 

[Decker]

Kieran,

I sent your posting to Phil for his reaction to it. If I get a reply back I will post it here for you.

Decker

 

[Kieran]

Kieran,

I sent your posting to Phil for his reaction to it. If I get a reply back I will post it here for you.

Decker

Thanks Don for that. I've have been studying the history of the Tuatha de dannann for a couple of years now.The Djinn stuff is all new to me. I'm convinced the Tuatha de dannann were a real race that might have influenced the stories found in Norse and Finnish Mythology. Stories of "THOR" for example. They have been spoke of and mentioned in Denmark hence the name den (tribe of Dan) is said to have named Denmark after the Tuatha, and i am finding information that perhaps the legends of the Greeks "the Titans and their many Gods one being Zeus were part of the family that is the Tribe of Dan.
In one biblical Legend "Samson" is said to have been a member of the Dan Race. None of this can be proven but these legends do exist. Here is a little fact that might interest you. The Danube is named after THE tribe of Dan probably given it's name by the Celts. Celts were of Germanic Origin. Take away the ube you have Dan.

I'm of the believe the Bible has got lot of things wrong, without going into too much detail about what i mean. The story of Hell and the Heavens for example. It is very unlikely there is a Red horned devil pitch forking Human beings below the surface of the earth and it is highly unlikely there is a white clothed being sitting in his high chair inside a cloud and judging mankind. If you broke down the story of the "Devil" and "God" it seems the story might a story of events that might have taken place long ago.
A battle perhaps between one race and another and the victor race believing the other race was Bad. "Hence you have the story of the "Devil" which is bad and "God" who is Good.

It interesting that you have the Devil being banished underground. Does seem to fit Irish and Djinn stories of entities being exiled from the planet. Is God a depiction of us as being the winners in this battle or was there a race that banished the Devil underground or to somewhere else. Anyway a few thoughts of mine that might interest certain people.

 

[trainedobserver]

n the Bible. The Tuatha de dannann are the lost tribe of Israel or the Tribe of Dan. Also known as the "Fallen Angels" Djinn legends talk about fallen Angels.

Could you clarify? Are you saying that the Tribe of Dan were known as "Fallen Angels" in the Bible? Could you point me to the chapter and verse on that? Thanks.

 

[Kieran]

Could you clarify? Are you saying that the Tribe of Dan were known as "Fallen Angels" in the Bible? Could you point me to the chapter and verse on that? Thanks.

I can i will come back to you and post just watching the match lol.

---------- Post added at 04:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:08 PM ----------

In the book of Genesis. I can write a detailed post but if you want to read up on it just type in Google and it be much easier for me.

 

[trainedobserver]

In the book of Genesis. I can write a detailed post but if you want to read up on it just type in Google and it be much easier for me.

I can't find the reference.

Here is an excellent site with multiple searchable translations.

 

[Kieran]

I can't find the reference.

Here is an excellent site with multiple searchable translations.

What did you not type Tribe of DAN Book of GENESIS in the Google Box. There is tons of information it not hard really lol

 

[trainedobserver]

What did you not type Tribe of DAN Book of GENESIS in the Google Box. There is tons of information it not hard really lol

(scratches head) While there are several references to various theories about the Tribe of Dan (including speculation as to the identity of the anti-Christ) that show up in Google, there are no actual quotations from the book of Genesis (or any other book of the Bible that I know of or can find) that refer to Tribe of Dan as "Fallen Angels." I admit that I am not familiar with the Apocrypha but I can not locate a quotation from it referring to the Tribe of Dan as fallen angels using Google either.

I'm sorry to be so thick. Hopefully you'll be able to clear this up for me.

 

[Kieran]

(scratches head) While there are several references to various theories about the Tribe of Dan (including speculation as to the identity of the anti-Christ) that show up in Google, there are no actual quotations from the book of Genesis (or any other book of the Bible that I know of or can find) that refer to Tribe of Dan as "Fallen Angels." I admit that I am not familiar with the Apocrypha but I can not locate a quotation from it referring to the Tribe of Dan as fallen angels using Google either.

I'm sorry to be so thick. Hopefully you'll be able to clear this up for me.

Biblical scholars have made out that the "Tribe of Dan" were excluded from the Book of Revelations because of their pagan Practices. In the Bible the Tribe of Dan will come the Antichrist hence the reasoning behind the Fallen angels term. There is no reference to Fallen angels in the Bible persay but the Antichrist has mention in the Bible many times and the Antichrist will come from the tribe of Dan according to Genesis.
Here is couple of verses from Genesis about the tribe of dan. Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers..nor regard any god, for he shall magnify himself above all.

Antichrist will come from the Tribe of Dan.. In Jeremiah..8 15-17 We looked for peace, but no good came, and for the time of health, and behold trouble. The snoring of his was heard from Dan, The whole land trembled at the sound of his neighing of his strong ones, for they come, and have devoured the land, and all that is in it, the city, and those that dwell therein. For behold, I will sent serpents, Cockatrices, among you which will not be charmed and they shall bite you, saith the LORD

There is dozens of other verses that make the claim the Antichrist will come from the Tribe of Dan. I nothing saying that is the case, but it amazes me that a mystical people talked about in the Bible somehow seem to be the same race talked about in Irish folklore. Whatever way you look at it that is very intriguing and a stunning revelation.

 

[Decker]

Kieran,

I sent your posting to Phil for his reaction to it. If I get a reply back I will post it here for you.

Decker

Kieran,

Rosemary E. Guiley answered back to me on the note I posted to Phil. As you know, they are working together on this. This is what she had to say.

"Hi Don,

Phil sent me the email on djinn & fairies from that listener in Ireland. We have an extensive treatment comparing the 2 in the book, hitting all those points. In fact, of all the entities we looked at, the strongest connection is with fairies.

Hope you are well!

Rosemary"

Decker

 

[Kieran]

Kieran,

Rosemary E. Guiley answered back to me on the note I posted to Phil. As you know, they are working together on this. This is what she had to say.

"Hi Don,

Phil sent me the email on djinn & fairies from that listener in Ireland. We have an extensive treatment comparing the 2 in the book, hitting all those points. In fact, of all the entities we looked at, the strongest connection is with fairies.

Hope you are well!

Rosemary"

Decker

Cool Don interesting Thanks.

 

[trainedobserver]

I think what you are actually referring to are theories that various groups or individuals have come up with rather than anything that is literally in the Bible itself.

I personally don't get "Anticrhist will come from the Tribe of Dan" from Jeremiah..8 15-17. I think you have taken someone's interpretation of this rather than the actual text itself. For the purposes of clarity, I think it is important to make that distinction when discussing these types of things. I certainly mean no offense.

Many Biblical scholars believe that Nero was what was referred to as the Antichrist and that the events and actions ascribed to him in the Book of the Revelation are entirely symbolic in nature. There have been many interpretations and theories about who and what the Antichrist might be. To me it's a bit like speculating on the nature of Roa.

I certainly don't what to come across as argumentative. I just wanted to understand how I could have missed such a thing. Understanding now that you were referring to someone's interpretation of the text rather than what is literally in there clears things up a bit. My personal opinion of the Bible, based on the book's history and its origins, is that it is essentially a contrived piece of religious propaganda. I can however suspend my disbelief and examine what is contained there as one might study The Lord of the Rings. But of course when I was studying the Bible I believed every word it, my opinion of it has changed over time though.

I can't wait to hear the show with Phil, I really enjoyed the previous Dark Matters featuring him. I have to listen from the archives though, so I'll have to wait.

Thanks,
Rick

 

[Kieran]

I think what you are actually referring to are theories that various groups or individuals have come up with rather than anything that is literally in the Bible itself.

I personally don't get "Anticrhist will come from the Tribe of Dan" from Jeremiah..8 15-17. I think you have taken someone's interpretation of this rather than the actual text itself. For the purposes of clarity, I think it is important to make that distinction when discussing these types of things. I certainly mean no offense.

Many Biblical scholars believe that Nero was what was referred to as the Antichrist and that the events and actions ascribed to him in the Book of the Revelation are entirely symbolic in nature. There have been many interpretations and theories about who and what the Antichrist might be. To me it's a bit like speculating on the nature of Roa.

I certainly don't what to come across as argumentative. I just wanted to understand how I could have missed such a thing. Understanding now that you were referring to someone's interpretation of the text rather than what is literally in there clears things up a bit. My personal opinion of the Bible, based on the book's history and its origins, is that it is essentially a contrived piece of religious propaganda. I can however suspend my disbelief and examine what is contained there as one might study The Lord of the Rings. But of course when I was studying the Bible I believed every word it, my opinion of it has changed over time though.

I can't wait to hear the show with Phil, I really enjoyed the previous Dark Matters featuring him. I have to listen from the archives though, so I'll have to wait.

Thanks,
Rick

No the text and verse is correct. It taken from the Hebrew Bible and the Catholic Bible. It there, take the time to look yourself? You perhaps missed it? And it perfectly understandable
"Irish culture and their beliefs is alien to must Americans. Like for Example and many people who come here to this site, probably would never have read something on the "Tuatha de Dannann" of Ireland's past unless i posted stuff here about it. Would i be wrong? So the Tribe of Dan talked about in the Bible would have less meaning to Americans because the Tuatha is not part of American Folklore.

We have to least be open to the possibility that parts of the Bible might contain some truth. What parts are the truth. I don't think anyone could ever answer with 100 per cent accuracy. But the fact remains the Fairy's of Ireland were the TuathA and in the Bible the Tribe of Dan (the Tuatha) are the Angels of the Antichrist ok just to be correct. the Tribe of Dan will come the Antichrist.

So what it the connection here? Train you probably believe i am making some larger assumptions with my posting. While i am assuming some stuff i am also speculating on the information that is historically correct and hopefully along the way some of it will, if not all, will make perfect sense to some of ye and perhaps be proven to be correct over time?

The Show is up i listened to it on the Cyberstation website not the archives. There is red button "On Demand" Scroll down to Wednesday and press play on Dark matters radio.

 

[trainedobserver]

No the text and verse is correct. It taken from the Hebrew Bible and the Catholic Bible.

Are you referring to ...

In Jeremiah..8 15-17 We looked for peace, but no good came, and for the time of health, and behold trouble. The snoring of his was heard from Dan, The whole land trembled at the sound of his neighing of his strong ones, for they come, and have devoured the land, and all that is in it, the city, and those that dwell therein. For behold, I will sent serpents, Cockatrices, among you which will not be charmed and they shall bite you, saith the LORD

?

I don't see the words "fallen angels" in that reference. What am I missing here? Are you referring to some other? I've Googled the thing six ways from Sunday. I'd be more than glad to say, "Oh yeah, you are right!" , if you'd just supply the chapter and verse of any translation or version of the Bible that actually says that the Tribe of Dan were "Fallen Angels."

If you are saying "I'm speculating that text X is referring the Tribe of Dan as fallen angels when it says "<insert text here>" that is one thing. But to state that the Bible literally says so requires some sort of reference that can be looked up. Am I being unreasonable to think so? Why would the burden be on me to provide the information to support your assertion?

You and anyone else are of course free to interpret whatever "sacred" text in whatever manner seems appropriate to you. And I certainly get what you are driving at, which is there are similarities and connections that can be made between various ancient writings and myths. I'm with you there. No problem. I just cannot find where the text literally says what you are saying that it does. If you can find it please provide the reference. Please note that I am not attempting to insert my opinion about any given interpretation or theory someone might have about the matter, I'm just saying if the Bible says that I would love to see where says so. To my knowledge and given the lack of any evidence to the contrary, I would have to say that it does not directly and literally refer to the Tribe of Dan as Fallen Angels.

Also note that I am being careful not to make any assumptions about what you may be thinking that isn't specifically posted in black and white here in the forum. That's why I asked you to clarify what you were actually saying, and then after you did I just asked you to provide the place where it said what you say it did.

Peace, love, and all that stuff like that there. May the road rise to meet you.

 

[Kieran]

Are you referring to ...
?

I don't see the words "fallen angels" in that reference. What am I missing here? Are you referring to some other? I've Googled the thing six ways from Sunday. I'd be more than glad to say, "Oh yeah, you are right!" , if you'd just supply the chapter and verse of any translation or version of the Bible that actually says that the Tribe of Dan were "Fallen Angels."

If you are saying "I'm speculating that text X is referring the Tribe of Dan as fallen angels when it says "<insert text here>" that is one thing. But to state that the Bible literally says so requires some sort of reference that can be looked up. Am I being unreasonable to think so? Why would the burden be on me to provide the information to support your assertion?

You and anyone else are of course free to interpret whatever "sacred" text in whatever manner seems appropriate to you. And I certainly get what you are driving at, which is there are similarities and connections that can be made between various ancient writings and myths. I'm with you there. No problem. I just cannot find where the text literally says what you are saying that it does. If you can find it please provide the reference. Please note that I am not attempting to insert my opinion about any given interpretation or theory someone might have about the matter, I'm just saying if the Bible says that I would love to see where says so. To my knowledge and given the lack of any evidence to the contrary, I would have to say that it does not directly and literally refer to the Tribe of Dan as Fallen Angels.

Also note that I am being careful not to make any assumptions about what you may be thinking that isn't specifically posted in black and white here in the forum. That's why I asked you to clarify what you were actually saying, and then after you did I just asked you to provide the place where it said what you say it did.

Peace, love, and all that stuff like that there. May the road rise to meet you.

Look is pointless debating with you.The Book of Genesis says the Antichrist will come from the Tribe of Dan. What does that mean to you? I think you are just being stubborn. It does matter if you believe me or not, the fact is this references in the Bible do exist. I gave a verse to prove my point and now your telling me i am wrong.
If the Tribe of Dan was a living and breathing race then it safe to assume this Antichrist would have followers. In Bible lore the Antichrist had followers demons or whatever so naturally people claim the Tribe of Dan were the followers of the Antichrist hence fallen Angels they were against God.

It makes logical sense, not saying it should be believed. Anyway I'm tired of this debate. You get very hot under the Collar you need to chill. You don't need to prove to me your right on everything lol. Accept sometimes that you might no everything and you will come across better to people.

 

[trainedobserver]

Look is pointless debating with you.The Book of Genesis says the Antichrist will come from the Tribe of Dan. What does that mean to you?

It has never been my intention to debate you my friend. I was just asking you to show me where it says that. I don't think that is unreasonable.

It does matter if you believe me or not, the fact is this references in the Bible do exist.

Cool. What are they? Belief doesn't play into it all. It is either literally in the text or it is an interpretation. You seem to be telling me that you have found this literally stated in the text somewhere rather than it being an extrapolation or interpretation. Again, if I've misunderstood you I apologize. I fully support and encourage you to interpret whatever sacred text in whatever manner you wish to. Really I do.

I gave a verse to prove my point and now your telling me i am wrong.

I don't see Antichrist or Fallen Angel anywhere in the text you quoted. The literal reading of the text says that bad times fell on them, Dan was snoring, (horses?) were neighing, strong ones (armies of some kind?) tore the landscape up and the lord threatened to send serpents and Cockatrices (apparently referring to a large roster-like creature with some reptilian characteristics) in retribution. If you or someone else wishes to interpret that as referring to the AntiChrist and identifying the Tribe of Dan as fallen angels who am I to argue? I wouldn't presume to do that. I fully support you in your right to do so and wouldn't attempt to sway you one way or another.

You get very hot under the Collar you need to chill. You don't need to prove to me your right on everything lol.

.

I'm not hot under the collar or upset in any way. I can't imagine what I've said to make you think that. I'm not trying to prove that I am right about anything at all. I just read where you said the Bible states that the Tribe of Dan were fallen angels and asked you provide a reference to where it literally says that. I don't see how that could be seen as anything but a desire to better understand your point of view.

Since no actual reference has been forthcoming where the text literally says that, I have to assume we've just had a misunderstanding and I have perhaps taken what you said too literally. I am aware of some of the various schools of thought that interpret the subject of antichrists and fallen angels (there are a bunch of different views on that of course) and I neither have the desire or inclination to attempt to argue one over another and that has not been my intention here by any means.

Again, my apologies if I came across as argumentative, I was just seeking some clarity.

 

[Kieran]

It has never been my intention to debate you my friend. I was just asking you to show me where it says that. I don't think that is unreasonable.



Cool. What are they? Belief doesn't play into it all. It is either literally in the text or it is an interpretation. You seem to be telling me that you have found this literally stated in the text somewhere rather than it being an extrapolation or interpretation. Again, if I've misunderstood you I apologize. I fully support and encourage you to interpret whatever sacred text in whatever manner you wish to. Really I do.



I don't see Antichrist or Fallen Angel anywhere in the text you quoted. The literal reading of the text says that bad times fell on them, Dan was snoring, (horses?) were neighing, strong ones (armies of some kind?) tore the landscape up and the lord threatened to send serpents and Cockatrices (apparently referring to a large roster-like creature with some reptilian characteristics) in retribution. If you or someone else wishes to interpret that as referring to the AntiChrist and identifying the Tribe of Dan as fallen angels who am I to argue? I wouldn't presume to do that. I fully support you in your right to do so and wouldn't attempt to sway you one way or another.

.

I'm not hot under the collar or upset in any way. I can't imagine what I've said to make you think that. I'm not trying to prove that I am right about anything at all. I just read where you said the Bible states that the Tribe of Dan were fallen angels and asked you provide a reference to where it literally says that. I don't see how that could be seen as anything but a desire to better understand your point of view.

Since no actual reference has been forthcoming where the text literally says that, I have to assume we've just had a misunderstanding and I have perhaps taken what you said too literally. I am aware of some of the various schools of thought that interpret the subject of antichrists and fallen angels (there are a bunch of different views on that of course) and I neither have the desire or inclination to attempt to argue one over another and that has not been my intention here by any means.

Again, my apologies if I came across as argumentative, I was just seeking some clarity.

I think you are just being thick for the sake of it. Some parts of Genesis clearly states the Antichrist will come from the Tribe of Dan. Is that something you can't take in and process? You want to prove there is no such verse saying the Tribe of Dan are the Fallen Angels. The Fallen angels are the Nephilim in Enoch.

Now the passage does not state the Tribe of Dan are the fallen angels, but it does not matter to be honest. Why, because New Testament and the Book of Genesis say the Antichrist will come from the Tribe of Dan. In Biblical circles the Fallen angels were cast away by God therefore they followed the ANTICHRIST. And were does the Antichrist come from according to the Bible (tribe of dan) Surely you see my point?

The serpent in Biblical times was a symbol of the Antichrist. A serpent appeared to Adam and eve in the Garden of Eden.. Another verse for you.. In GENESIS 3.2.15 IT STATES DAN shall be a serpent (Antichrist) by the way, an adder in the path, thatbiteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward..

The most amazing thing about this is not that Tribe of Dan are called the ANTICHRIST in the Bible. The interest should be that in the Bible we have a race that perhaps lived somewhere in Israel long ago and the Bible portrayed this clan or tribe as the Devil or Antichrist, and you have Irish Mythology talking about a race that perhaps lived long ago in Ireland, and we call them fairies today. And they do seem to be the same race for some reason. Do you not find that at all intriguing?

 

[trainedobserver]

I think you are just being thick for the sake of it.

You wound me.

You want to prove there is no such verse saying the Tribe of Dan are the Fallen Angels. T

Wait a minute, wait a minute. I thought ... never mind. Boy, I'm apparently very confused.

Now the passage does not state the Tribe of Dan are the fallen angels, but it does not matter to be honest.

I agree with you.

Why, because New Testament and the Book of Genesis say the Antichrist will come from the Tribe of Dan. In Biblical circles the Fallen angels were cast away by God therefore they followed the ANTICHRIST. And were does the Antichrist come from according to the Bible (tribe of dan) Surely you see my point?

It couldn't be more clear to me now.

The serpent in Biblical times was a symbol of the Antichrist. A serpent appeared to Adam and eve in the Garden of Eden.. Another verse for you.. In GENESIS 3.2.15 IT STATES DAN shall be a serpent (Antichrist) by the way, an adder in the path, thatbiteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward.

Aren't you thinking about Satan as opposed to the Antichrist? How can there be an Antichrist before there was a Christ? Whoops. I mean ... Cool!

The most amazing thing about this is not that Tribe of Dan are called the ANTICHRIST in the Bible. The interest should be that in the Bible we have a race that perhaps lived somewhere in Israel long ago and the Bible portrayed this clan or tribe as the Devil or Antichrist, and you have Irish Mythology talking about a race that perhaps lived long ago in Ireland, and we call them fairies today. And they do seem to be the same race for some reason. Do you not find that at all intriguing?

Amazing and intriguing for sure.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

 

[Kieran]

You wound me.



Wait a minute, wait a minute. I thought ... never mind. Boy, I'm apparently very confused.



I agree with you.



It couldn't be more clear to me now.



Aren't you thinking about Satan as opposed to the Antichrist? How can there be an Antichrist before there was a Christ? Whoops. I mean ... Cool!



Amazing and intriguing for sure.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.

Your a smart guy but you seem to have lost all sense of wonder. I don't think i being rude to you? Your skeptical fine. But i would least expect a man of your education to take more of an interest. Especially when Historically you have two Different cultures from different countries talking about the same race and those races have some mystery behind them. The FAIRY phenomenon has often been compared to the UFO Phenomenon of today. So why is there a RACE Connected with the Fairy Phenomenon in Ireland having REFERENCE in many of the Biblical Books and texts of ancient times? Anyway or debate is fruitless you obviously don't find this interesting. Next subject!!

 

[trainedobserver]

I would have thought you would understand the difference between what something literally says and what your (or whomever you're reading) interpretation of it might be. I also fail to understand why you would make a statement such as you made without providing some sort of reference that actually supports it. Nor do I get your inability to understand that I really don't mind how you care to interpret a given text as opposed to saying a given text says something literally when it obviously does not literally say that.

Different cultures from different countries talking about the same race and those races have some mystery behind them.

That is your interpretation. Cool! There are several others.

The FAIRY phenomenon has often been compared to the UFO Phenomenon of today.

I pretty familiar with the idea as Jacques F. Vallee has ploughed that ground many years ago. I think you would find his books interesting.

Anyone who has actually studied the Bible (belief in its alleged divine inspiration is quite unnecessary for the task) knows that Satan and the Antichrist are two different entities, that mention of the Antichrist only occurs in the New Testament, that fallen angels are not human beings, and that the Tribe of Dan were just another human faction. Now granted, there any number of interpretations, theories, and wild speculation about these subjects from any number of people and cults. Most respectable biblical scholars or even just 'students of the Bible' would have quite a belly laugh at the notion that the Devil and the Antichrist are the same thing or that Tribe of Dan were inhuman. I've read various translations of the Bible cover to cover over the years and intensely studied the material and the various interpretations of it having taught more classes on various subjects in it than I really care to go into. I really won't waste our time by attempting to bring you up to speed and the main variants on interpreting the subject of the Antichrist. If you have an actual interest in understanding what the main stream Bible scholars vs. fringe theorists have been saying for centuries you can look that up yourself. All I'll say is that you are proposing an extremely fringe interpretation that from my knowledge of the material, cannot be justified by any literal reading of the text;it requires a lot of reading between the lines and pulling stuff out of the air to get there.

Having said all of that I reiterate that I really don't a hoot in hell how you choose to interpret the Bible. What I do care about is people making outlandish statements that are simply aren't true. I asked you provide the quotes and I knew ahead of time it would impossible for you to do so. Your citing of the Jeremiah passage was a large tell. Rather than admit that what you are talking about cannot be literally found in the Bible but is in fact your interpretation (or David Icke's or whoever) of it is somewhat puzzling but I've come to expect that sort of thing here. Just don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining. Fair enough?