• NEW! LOWEST RATES EVER -- SUPPORT THE SHOW AND ENJOY THE VERY BEST PREMIUM PARACAST EXPERIENCE! Welcome to The Paracast+, eight years young! For a low subscription fee, you can download the ad-free version of The Paracast and the exclusive, member-only, After The Paracast bonus podcast, featuring color commentary, exclusive interviews, the continuation of interviews that began on the main episode of The Paracast. We also offer lifetime memberships! Flash! Take advantage of our lowest rates ever! Act now! It's easier than ever to susbcribe! You can sign up right here!

    Subscribe to The Paracast Newsletter!

Philosophy, Science, & The Unexplained - Main Thread

Free episodes:

Eliminative Materialism From Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy ...

On Eliminative Materialism. According to the articles you posted and the Wikipedia article, and my Encarta, although EM seems to be a form of reductionism, it is focused on the details related to how people commonly relate to various states of mind. Its position with respect to the notion that we are spiritual beings, as in who we are is some non-physical thing called a spirit that inhabits our material bodies seems accurate to some extent, however I don't think that other facets of EM are defensible, such as the idea that states of mind are actually nonexistent. I'm still not 100% clear on what they mean by that, but examples like emotions and sensory perceptions seem self-evident enough that claiming that they are nonexistent is rather preposterous, and I see no adequate explanation to adopt such a position.
 
On Eliminative Materialism. According to the articles you posted and the Wikipedia article, and my Encarta, although EM seems to be a form of reductionism, it is focused on the details related to how people commonly relate to various states of mind. Its position with respect to the notion that we are spiritual beings, as in who we are is some non-physical thing called a spirit that inhabits our material bodies seems accurate to some extent, however I don't think that other facets of EM are defensible, such as the idea that states of mind are actually nonexistent. I'm still not 100% clear on what they mean by that, but examples like emotions and sensory perceptions seem self-evident enough that claiming that they are nonexistent is rather preposterous, and I see no adequate explanation to adopt such a position.

I think you made a bit of quick work of that! ;-)
 
On Eliminative Materialism. According to the articles you posted and the Wikipedia article, and my Encarta, although EM seems to be a form of reductionism, it is focused on the details related to how people commonly relate to various states of mind. Its position with respect to the notion that we are spiritual beings, as in who we are is some non-physical thing called a spirit that inhabits our material bodies seems accurate to some extent, however I don't think that other facets of EM are defensible, such as the idea that states of mind are actually nonexistent. I'm still not 100% clear on what they mean by that, but examples like emotions and sensory perceptions seem self-evident enough that claiming that they are nonexistent is rather preposterous, and I see no adequate explanation to adopt such a position.

I have sympathy for this position too (that these things are self-evident) but I think the EMs are digging at the very idea of what it is to think something is self-evident . . . the last part of the discussion on the Stanford site is relevant to that point and gives me enough pause to not just dismiss it. Thinking about it creates a kind of gnostic dissonance - an eerie thought that we might not really be up to what we think we are up to at all - still, there are problems.

As I refresh on these topics I remember now the dizzying array of positions and sub-positions available and the overall texture of things philosophical, the difficulty in communicating ideas, sometimes the grasp of a problem is a matter of whether or not you see the rabbit or the duck and some people really, really tend to see one or the other - others seem more fluid in moving back and forth in any given situation but this creates its own confusion.

I'll also remember coming tothink that drawing up a program of experimentation and interpretation of that experimentation/theorizing may be on a whole lot shakier ground - based far more on assumptions that can be hard to see. Besides which, rarely are good (results-producing) scientists good philosophers and vice versa, but the first often don't seem to be very aware of this - and are often dismissive of the philsopher's concerns because of the tangle of language and logic - they don't see the problems as coherent or relevant and because they tend to be action and results oriented.

In some way this is like GH Hardy's position on mathematics - he famously argued that he could create mathematics with no relevance to the world, a claim that I understand hasn't held up very well so far.
 
Well, if you do write it up, I would be interested to read it - and would encourage you to consider some form of publication, Sage I think it is - allows scholarly self-publication, not sure how peer-review works . . . or if it's even a good thing at all, a friend of mine came across it while working on her PhD - hmmm, I wonder if there is some way to "publish" theories right here on the forum? Maybe have an archive where they can be checked out - reinventing the wheel I suppose. But nice for you to facilitate future discussion on this.

Ufology is a brilliant man. I wish I had the kind of free time that both you ,and he, seem to endure the liberty of enjoying on this forum. Being so insanely busy at work this past week, all I have been able to do is to spy tantalizing tidbits of postings from those I enjoy reading here.

Here's a little relevant commentary from my ego's very own armchair peanut gallery.

virtual protons and field consciousness = a little inspiration from Jeff Davis, mixed with some Ufology brilliance, thank you very much.

Try searching Jeff Davis and "consciousness" via this forum, or the origin of the term "consciousness field". I think you'd be surprised. What did you wanna know precisely? :D

The truth is, I'm a moron. The deeper I get, the less I know, but the more intuitively right it instinctively feels. This is the nature of progressive sentience.

Not doing, is FAR more important than doing. Thinking is what got us to take that wrong turn at Albuquerque in the first place.

The truth is, we know EVERYTHING, now. More precisely, a relatively short while, prior to now, actually.

Do you want to see treasure with respect to consciousness exploration?

Glimpse this my friend, and please express what this article reveals to you concerning consciousness exploration.

The Strange and Mysterious History of the Ouija Board | History & Archaeology | Smithsonian Magazine

"The real glory of men is in their successful combining." Jeff Davis, who the hell cares when. :p

"In the long history of humankind (and animal kind, too) those who learned to collaborate and improvise most effectively have prevailed" Charles Darwin, does it matter when?

The more you think you know, the less chance you have of adapting to change. Therefore, the greater the chance of your demise. This is NOT the mental aptitude to adopt if we ever hope to really get on with the process of a sincere community based consciousness exploration discussion. Let us evolve together as nature intended.:)
 
I have sympathy for this position too (that these things are self-evident) but I think the EMs are digging at the very idea of what it is to think something is self-evident . . . the last part of the discussion on the Stanford site is relevant to that point and gives me enough pause to not just dismiss it. Thinking about it creates a kind of gnostic dissonance - an eerie thought that we might not really be up to what we think we are up to at all - still, there are problems.
Yes. Some points of view like the idea of spiritual entities inhabiting bodies seems self-evident to some people, but break down rather quickly. However other things like being able to image our red Ferarri is an ability that is self-evident and undeniably real within the framework of mental visualization.
As I refresh on these topics I remember now the dizzying array of positions and sub-positions available and the overall texture of things philosophical, the difficulty in communicating ideas, sometimes the grasp of a problem is a matter of whether or not you see the rabbit or the duck and some people really, really tend to see one or the other - others seem more fluid in moving back and forth in any given situation but this creates its own confusion.

I'll also remember coming tothink that drawing up a program of experimentation and interpretation of that experimentation/theorizing may be on a whole lot shakier ground - based far more on assumptions that can be hard to see. Besides which, rarely are good (results-producing) scientists good philosophers and vice versa, but the first often don't seem to be very aware of this - and are often dismissive of the philsopher's concerns because of the tangle of language and logic - they don't see the problems as coherent or relevant and because they tend to be action and results oriented.

In some way this is like GH Hardy's position on mathematics - he famously argued that he could create mathematics with no relevance to the world, a claim that I understand hasn't held up very well so far.
There sure are a lot of differing opinions, theories and models to look at, which is why I think it's important not to get bogged down in the philosophese. That's for those who pride themselves in recalling the minutiae of philosophical trivia. It's fine to lookup what one needs as one goes in order to determine what's relevant and what's not.

I think GH Hardy's general premise is true to the extent that we can create abstract mathematical representations of entirely fictional things, and often compare this to the work of artists, particularly Escher, whose impossible staircase is IMO a near perfect analogy. Math is an abstract form of representation that takes place in the mind. It may not have any direct correlation to the so-called real world, but that doesn't mean it may not have relevance. That's the key word. A purely geometrical figure as defined in math may not actually exist in the real world, but it can still be relevant to those who want to do something like build a pyramid.
 
Interesting article Jeff. I liked this part:

"When participants were asked, verbally, to guess the answers to the best of their ability, they were right only around 50 percent of the time, a typical result for guessing. But when they answered using the board ( Ouija board ), believing that the answers were coming from someplace else, they answered correctly upwards of 65 percent of the time. “It was so dramatic how much better they did on these questions than if they answered to the best of their ability that we were like, ‘This is just weird, how could they be that much better?’” recalled Fels. “It was so dramatic we couldn’t believe it.” The implication was, Fels explained, that one’s non-conscious was a lot smarter than anyone knew."

BTW: There are days I really wish I actually was brilliant, believe me. I don't think I'm necessarily any "smarter" than anyone else here :) . When I think brilliant, I used to watch this show called The Pretender, about a fictional character who could instantly adapt to any situation:

The Pretender - TV Series


And then there was this movie:

Limitless - The Movie

 
Last edited:
Interesting article Jeff. I liked this part:

"When participants were asked, verbally, to guess the answers to the best of their ability, they were right only around 50 percent of the time, a typical result for guessing. But when they answered using the board ( Ouija board ), believing that the answers were coming from someplace else, they answered correctly upwards of 65 percent of the time. “It was so dramatic how much better they did on these questions than if they answered to the best of their ability that we were like, ‘This is just weird, how could they be that much better?’” recalled Fels. “It was so dramatic we couldn’t believe it.” The implication was, Fels explained, that one’s non-conscious was a lot smarter than anyone knew."

BTW: There are days I really wish I actually was brilliant, believe me. I don't think I'm necessarily any "smarter" than anyone else here :) . When I think brilliant, I used to watch this show called The Pretender, about a fictional character who could instantly adapt to any situation:

The Pretender - TV Series


And then there was this movie:

Limitless - The Movie


Darn it! You wouldn't believe the post I just had to delete. Just some imaginative BS, but I still spent some real time on it. I still have it saved as an email in which it translated as I had originally drafted it oddly. I drafted a consciousness flow chart centered on the right and left hemispheres of the brain and how in a basic sense there is a discernible perpetuated linear process resulting in physical sentient reality. When I posted it, there were no longer any designed breaks in the wordage of the flow chart and it seemed to me to loose all comprehensibility.

It detailed, and still does, a basic reasoning that may somewhat give plausible resolve for the virtual photonic matter connectedness issue. At least a verified natural relation between sophisticated matter and light that can be demonstrated in a laboratory context. This post explained how you inspired that.:) I'll maybe post in pieces or something tomorrow.

Was limitless the movie about the drug? If it was, that was a very cool movie. That guy, and I know there was a woman as well that had a run in with the magic pill, could adaptively think themselves out of anything like now, provided either were "on". I remember being really entertained by that film, it was great.

I know that I remember that Pretender show in a very vague sense from being on TV when I was younger, but I don't know if I ever really knew about it much. There were years there where I just didn't watch TV. Always loved the movies though.

Of course, the paragraph that you quoted above from that article was my small but real gleaned treasure from this article. Spot On! It's ALL there and we have access to an entire informational universe in detail without physically moving an inch due to the interactive nature of light and our DNA. In a hyper dimensional environment, the possibilities are limitless.

The amazing thing, it's been documented and proved in my best estimation. It's been scrutinized and confirmed by legitimate scientific authority. It's still very rare to get past the scoffing, but if someone can please explain to me how Ingo Swann did as good or better a CONFIRMED descriptive job remote viewing the planet Jupiter, 10 years prior to our best NASA launched mechanical space probes traveling past Jupiter sent back their first physical informational retrievals, I'm all ears. He did this 10 years before any man or machine had seen what he described in absolute precision detail. This was something no man on earth could have conveyed at the time without doing precisely what Ingo did. Which was to access the informational universe minus the constraints that our physical technologies had yet to conquer.
 
Darn it! You wouldn't believe the post I just had to delete. Just some imaginative BS, but I still spent some real time on it. I still have it saved as an email in which it translated as I had originally drafted it oddly. I drafted a consciousness flow chart centered on the right and left hemispheres of the brain and how in a basic sense there is a discernible perpetuated linear process resulting in physical sentient reality. When I posted it, there were no longer any designed breaks in the wordage of the flow chart and it seemed to me to loose all comprehensibility.
The formatting here isn't that great. What you could try doing is taking a screen capture of the text ( if it fits ) and making it into a .png or .jpg and uploading it as an image.
... Of course, the paragraph that you quoted above from that article was my small but real gleaned treasure from this article. Spot On! It's ALL there and we have access to an entire informational universe in detail without physically moving an inch due to the interactive nature of light and our DNA. In a hyper dimensional environment, the possibilities are limitless.
I'm not convinced that there is such a thing in reality as a "hyper dimensional universe".
The amazing thing, it's been documented and proved in my best estimation. It's been scrutinized and confirmed by legitimate scientific authority. It's still very rare to get past the scoffing, but if someone can please explain to me how Ingo Swann did as good or better a CONFIRMED descriptive job remote viewing the planet Jupiter, 10 years prior to our best NASA launched mechanical space probes traveling past Jupiter sent back their first physical informational retrievals, I'm all ears. He did this 10 years before any man or machine had seen what he described in absolute precision detail. This was something no man on earth could have conveyed at the time without doing precisely what Ingo did. Which was to access the informational universe minus the constraints that our physical technologies had yet to conquer.
I started reading Ingo Swan's PDF, but I never got through it. What specific claim do you think is so amazing? Can you provide an exact quote?
 
I started reading Ingo Swan's PDF, but I never got through it. What specific claim do you think is so amazing? Can you provide an exact quote?

Yeah, I'm curious as well, I can't find much out there on this specific viewing that isn't on some kooky RV type site, I went looking for information about this from a skeptical POV and found that none other than Isaac Asimov himself did a comparison between what was predicted by the remote viewers and what was actually found, 46% of what they predicted was completely and utterly wrong. For example, Swann claimed that he saw a 30,000 ft mountain range on Jupiter when in reality there's no such thing. He later changed his claim and said that his particular brand of astral travel is so fast that he must have been seeing not Jupiter, but another planet in another solar system. Right....

I know many don't like James Randi and, to be honest, he's not exactly a favorite of mine when it comes to skeptics, but he also examined the claims made by the remote viewers and found that only one of the 65 claims made by the remote viewers of Jupiter was a fact that was either not obvious or not obtainable from reference books. Doesn't exactly inspire confidence in remote viewing as being accurate or even particularly useful, at least imo.

I also found this on wikipedia, since Asimov and Randi's numbers appear to be different I imagine that there have been developments since Asimov did his analysis and that these are the current stats:

Swann's Jupiter rings
Swann proposed a study to Targ and Puthoff. At first they resisted, for the resulting descriptions would be impossible to verify. Yet, on the evening 27 April 1973 Targ and Puthoff recorded Swann's remote viewing session of the planet Jupiter and Jupiter's moons,[35] prior to the Voyager probe's visit there in 1979.

Swann asked for 30 minutes of silence. According to Swann, his ability to see Jupiter took about three and a half minutes. In the session he made several reports on the physical features of Jupiter, such as its surface, atmosphere and weather. Swann's statement that Jupiter had planetary rings, like Saturn, was controversial at the time. The Voyager probe later confirmed the existence of the rings.[36]

The following are Swann's exact statements:

6:06:20 "Very high in the atmosphere there are crystals... they glitter. Maybe the stripes are like bands of crystals, maybe like rings of Saturn, though not far out like that. Very close within the atmosphere."(Unintelligible sentence.) "I bet you they'll reflect radio probes. Is that possible if you had a cloud of crystals that were assaulted by different radio waves?" [37]

Analysis and observations
The Rings of Jupiter are not inside the atmosphere and rather than being made of crystal, Jupiter's rings are formed by charged (dust) particles of various sizes. Most of these particles are very tiny (about 1 micrometre across). There are two forces that are exerted on these particles by Jupiter: a gravitational force and an electromagnetic force. The gravitational force is stronger than the electromagnetic force for particles with size of 1 micrometre and it provides the centripetal acceleration that is required to keep these particles in circular motion around Jupiter.

Throughout their lifetimes these particles are ground down by the energetic particles that are abundant in Jupiter's magnetosphere and eventually they become so small (about 0.03 micrometre across) that the electromagnetic force overpowers the gravitational force and the particles leave the rings and fall into Jupiter's atmosphere. The average lifetime of these particles is about 1000 years, a very short time by cosmological standards.

However, Jupiter's rings are a permanent feature because these tiny particles are regenerated continually by collisions of interplanetary Micrometeoroids with boulder-size objects within the rings.[38]

Swann's total observations lasted for about 20 minutes. He made no mention of the many moons of Jupiter, which as of February 2004 counted 63.[39] The raw data comprised only four pages. But according to Swann the confirmatory data appeared throughout the published scientific and technical articles and papers. It was decided that all of these should be included in their entirety to ensure that no scientific passage was inadvertently used out of context. The feedback data therefore amounted to about 300 pages.[37] Swann states, "Only the mountains remained unconfirmed. When skeptics elected to amuse themselves regarding the Probe it was this single item they focused on." [40]

An examination by Randi of the 65 statements made by Ingo Swann and Harold Sherman concluded that 37 percent of the statements were incorrect.[41] Of the statements, 7 were correct yet obvious, 11 were correct and available widely in reference books, 5 were probably true (scientific speculation), one was correct but not available from reference books, 9 were too vague to verify, 2 were probably incorrect and 30 were certainly incorrect.[41] Randi's evaluation of the 31 claims about Jupiter by Swann identified 6 as true, 1 as very likely, 3 as probable, 4 as obvious, 1 as "probably not," 11 as wrong, 1 as "not known," and 4 criticized for being vague or nonspecific in various ways, e.g., "it's liquid" and "surface gives high infrared count, and heat is held down."
 
Yeah, I'm curious as well, I can't find much out there on this specific viewing that isn't on some kooky RV type site ...
Thanks Muadib, it all seems to break down pretty much as expected when I skimmed over it. Now I know I don't have to waste my time going through it all in detail :D .
 
Thanks Muadib, it all seems to break down pretty much as expected when I skimmed over it. Now I know I don't have to waste my time going through it all in detail :D .

No problem, I have to admit that I find it interesting that Swann predicted Jupiter's rings, even though he got their position and composition wrong. However, I also have to admit that I don't see the potential benefit of something that can only provide, at best, partially accurate information, we didn't get to the moon by being kind of right.
 
An examination by Randi of the 65 statements made by Ingo Swann and Harold Sherman concluded that 37 percent of the statements were incorrect.[41] Of the statements, 7 were correct yet obvious, 11 were correct and available widely in reference books, 5 were probably true (scientific speculation), one was correct but not available from reference books, 9 were too vague to verify, 2 were probably incorrect and 30 were certainly incorrect.[41] Randi's evaluation of the 31 claims about Jupiter by Swann identified 6 as true, 1 as very likely, 3 as probable, 4 as obvious, 1 as "probably not," 11 as wrong, 1 as "not known," and 4 criticized for being vague or nonspecific in various ways, e.g., "it's liquid" and "surface gives high infrared count, and heat is held down."


If one were to accept even the ridiculously skewed testing above that Muadib posted, testing by a privately funded pro skeptic's group, having been cited more than once for exceedingly questionable results from MANY reviewed aspects of their focused interest, (read: wikipedia terrorism BS) a 63% success rate in terms of undeniable accuracy is STUNNING. Statistically, You would expect the individual's descriptions to be accurate ZERO percentage of the time. 63% in and of itself COMPLETELY CONFIRMS his abilities. Please show me how it could be otherwise statistically with respect to NO AVAILABLE reference materials on which to base his guesses.

As I stated, from the very crowd that entertains the notion of space aliens that travel the lengths of the universe in search of the perfect rectum to probe, the scoffing is just anecdotal, and offsetting to comfort their own lack of a solid speculative footing IMO. It's survival psychology 101 really.
 
If one were to accept even the ridiculously skewed testing above that Muadib posted, testing by a privately funded pro skeptic's group, having been cited more than once for exceedingly questionable results from MANY reviewed aspects of their focused interest, (read: wikipedia terrorism BS) a 63% success rate in terms of undeniable accuracy is STUNNING. Statistically, You would expect the individual's descriptions to be accurate ZERO percentage of the time. 63% in and of itself COMPLETELY CONFIRMS his abilities. Please show me how it could be otherwise statistically with respect to NO AVAILABLE reference materials on which to base his guesses.

As I stated, from the very crowd that entertains the notion of space aliens that travel the lengths of the universe in search of the perfect rectum to probe, the scoffing is just anecdotal, and offsetting to comfort their own lack of a solid speculative footing IMO. It's survival psychology 101 really.

Jeff, I know you like to get upset and start typing in caps every time someone questions anything you believe in but I just have to ask what you mean by no available reference material? Are you honestly suggesting that we knew nothing about Jupiter prior to it being remote viewed? Are you honestly suggesting that there were no scientific articles about Jupiter? No scientific speculation about Jupiter on which he could base his guesses? Really? You actually believe that?

On another note, maybe you're referencing Ufology with your last paragraph but I certainly don't subscribe to the notion of space aliens traveling the lengths of the universe to find the perfect rectum to probe. The way you lash out almost every time someone questions something you post is hilarious, though. Carry on.;)
 
No problem, I have to admit that I find it interesting that Swann predicted Jupiter's rings, even though he got their position and composition wrong. However, I also have to admit that I don't see the potential benefit of something that can only provide, at best, partially accurate information, we didn't get to the moon by being kind of right.

Muadib,
What if Swann's findings only indicate a tiny fraction of the abilities exercised and developed by that one man? It's not like Swann just closed his eyes and started recounting an imaginative vision. He had several years of practice and training. What if there are people that are 25 times more prone by natural disposition to exercise and deploy such capabilities?

Could a technological facilitation that naturally replicates or encourages the process have been used by Ben Rich's Skunkworks when he referred to taking ET home via ESP?

This is BY FAR the most logical and adjacent occurrence in documented science to align itself with such a fantastic proposal as Rich referred to it, I'm thinking.
 
Jeff, I know you like to get upset and start typing in caps every time someone questions anything you believe in but I just have to ask what you mean by no available reference material? Are you honestly suggesting that we knew nothing about Jupiter prior to it being remote viewed? Are you honestly suggesting that there were no scientific articles about Jupiter? No scientific speculation about Jupiter on which he could base his guesses? Really? You actually believe that?

On another note, maybe you're referencing Ufology with your last paragraph but I certainly don't subscribe to the notion of space aliens traveling the lengths of the universe to find the perfect rectum to probe. The way you lash out almost every time someone questions something you post is hilarious, though. Carry on.;)


I am not upset. I use caps merely for described emphasis, just for adjective expressiveness. I am not angry in the least, or upset. I EXPECTED as much. Truthfully.
 
Muadib,
What if Swann's findings only indicate a tiny fraction of the abilities exercised and developed by that one man? It's not like Swann just closed his eyes and started recounting an imaginative vision. He had several years of practice and training. What if there are people that are 25 times more prone by natural disposition to exercise and deploy such capabilities?

Could a technological facilitation that naturally replicates or encourages the process have been used by Ben Rich's Skunkworks when he referred to taking ET home via ESP?

This is BY FAR the most logical and adjacent occurrence in documented science to align itself with such a fantastic proposal as Rich referred to it, I'm thinking.

Did Ben Rich refer to taking ET home via ESP? I must admit I'm not up to speed on that whole thing, I've heard about it of course, but I remember the statement being much more general, IE that we now had the ability to take ET home or something like that, I don't remember it referencing ESP. In any case, like I said I find it interesting and I also find your speculation to be very interesting, but where's the evidence? Where's the evidence of someone 25 times more prone by natural disposition to exercise and deploy such capabilities? If I were confronted with such evidence and it held up to scrutiny, I would obviously have to change my stance on remote viewing and possibly even consciousness itself. Truthfully, nothing would make me happier, I'd love to believe that we're more than just the physical material of which we are made, however, I can't believe something just because I want to, I need evidence.
 
Those who don't stand for something, will fall for anything. So yes, I'll continue lashing out Muadib. Ignorance is loathsome, especially when those accusing you are merely attempting to elicit a an amusing ruse via that ignorance. That's unfortunate.
 
Please don't think I am angry however, just intent on getting some hopeful answers. Naturally as we all do, certainly not just myself, we all hope those answers are the ones that we want to hear. :p
 
Those who don't stand for something, will fall for anything. So yes, I'll continue lashing out Muadib. Ignorance is loathsome, especially when those accusing you are merely attempting to elicit a an amusing ruse via that ignorance. That's unfortunate.

Well, you're entitled to believe whatever you want about my intentions, but the only ignorance I've seen in this thread is your complete ignorance of what we knew and what was speculated about in regards to Jupiter prior to this remote viewing by Ingo Swann. The idea that there was no prior speculation or study of Jupiter that he could've easily used to inform his own speculation is the height of that ignorance which you claim to loathe.
 
Last edited:
Did Ben Rich refer to taking ET home via ESP? I must admit I'm not up to speed on that whole thing, I've heard about it of course, but I remember the statement being much more general, IE that we now had the ability to take ET home or something like that, I don't remember it referencing ESP. In any case, like I said I find it interesting and I also find your speculation to be very interesting, but where's the evidence? Where's the evidence of someone 25 times more prone by natural disposition to exercise and deploy such capabilities? If I were confronted with such evidence and it held up to scrutiny, I would obviously have to change my stance on remote viewing and possibly even consciousness itself. Truthfully, nothing would make me happier, I'd love to believe that we're more than just the physical material of which we are made, however, I can't believe something just because I want to, I need evidence.

All evidence with respect to the paranormal is statistically associative by corollary, or observationally phenomenal by nature IMO. We can compile vast amounts of this evidence and never have real substantiation. So ultimately, I don't soundly "believe" any of this. That's why IMO it's so important to encourage one another in adopting and researching as many alternate hypothetical possibilities as is cumulatively imaginable.

Muadib,
I only encourage consciousness research in an effort to understand the paranormal. It's just my simple opinion that believes that this is a very crucial directive if we are to establish a firm footing with respect to a real comprehension of observationally reported paranormal events. I'm thinking as much will be what opens up the doors, not closes them. I am afraid that far more doors have been closed with respect to the nuts and bolts crowd having entropically roped themselves in with the sole technological aspects of their mission quandary. That's JMO.
 
Back
Top