Question for Dave or Anyone Who Feels The Same....

[CapnG]

I disagree. I think as we are now, we'd likely grow arrogant and bored, which is a deadly combination when you have all the time in the world.

Arrogant, maybe but boredom is an immature emotion. Children are easily bored, adults less so. Immortality would mean maturity of conciousness on a massive scale. When you can literally see and do and make and have everything in the fullness of time because you can't die, how can you be bored? Things like time and space are meaningless in terms of the limitations they now represent.

Your viewpoint seems to be a concern regarding immortal humans. I guess what I'm saying is once you become immortal you cease to be human, therefore human concerns no longer apply.

 

[0uterj0in]

Maybe we're the containers, and the visitors like to ride around in our "avatars" like Being John Malkovich.

 

[valiens]

Arrogant, maybe but boredom is an immature emotion. Children are easily bored, adults less so. Immortality would mean maturity of conciousness on a massive scale. When you can literally see and do and make and have everything in the fullness of time because you can't die, how can you be bored? Things like time and space are meaningless in terms of the limitations they now represent.

Your viewpoint seems to be a concern regarding immortal humans. I guess what I'm saying is once you become immortal you cease to be human, therefore human concerns no longer apply.

Time is meaningless but space isn't. What if we're still stuck on earth and immortal? I don't assume giant other leaps with immortality. Hence, boredom.

 

[skunkape]

Maybe we're the containers, and the visitors like to ride around in our "avatars" like Being John Malkovich.

That is one of the more disturbing possible realities I deal with. I suspect that there may be intelligences that covet our corporeality and latch on to some aspect of our being like parasites so that they may enjoy the 'earthly' senses. The subjective quality of said sensory experience doesn't seem to be as important to 'them' as the intensity. Bliss and suffering, all the same. The more of either, the better. I have found that deliberately maintaining an emotional and sensual flat-line seems to cause the invisible world to become disinterested.

 

[CapnG]

Time is meaningless but space isn't. What if we're still stuck on earth and immortal? I don't assume giant other leaps with immortality. Hence, boredom.

Well, we're not stuck. We can get to the moon and (if we really want to) Mars NOW. But why assume GIANT leaps? Once time is irrelevant, a hundred million baby steps are of no consequence.

 

[mike]

another possibilty along the "they are us from the future" possibility, is that we never did find any ET's.

and all that celestial real estate is ours, once you have the ability to true(time) travel, you stop thinking in terms of linear time.

once you no longer think in linear time, the "population" figures are no longer linked to that frame, rather they encompass the total human population through its history.

once you can travel in time, and no longer think in terms of linear time. you are in a different "place" than we are, a higher dimension if you like.

for all we know the vast majority of the human "population", (the missing 94 billion.....) now inhabit this place.
with the earth just a "hatchery" for conciousness, which it is. we are an animal species that for whatever reason has developed conciousness.

again this is purely hypothesis, not what it IS but simply what it could be.

stepping in and out of linear time no doubt uses energy, so it seems to me a good strategy would be to pick a point in time, and set up a base there (moon ?) and with the equipment in place work up thru linear time, recycling/harvesting the conciousness of individuals, as the original vessel (crude at that) wears out.

that would cover the atom bomb comments too, if the actual process is taking place in our linear time, and the number killed exceeded the capacity for harvest, then you would need to use energy looping backwards in time to pick them up in "lots", of course you would need to know which ones had already been recycled uptime, and sort those out from those who hadnt been processed yet. what a mess.
shuttle disaster UFO link ?. fits this hypothesis, what better prepared conciousness to harvest than a space vehicles crew.
the disaster would be "history" to them, makes sense they would be on hand to recycle the irreplaceable conciousness components on board.

perhaps the greater population of the universe is recycled conciousness, with linear time hatcherys like earth being no more than spawning grounds

 

[skunkape]

You gotta start writing a script, Mike.

 

[AnnetteMarie]

what was that awful movie with Cheryl Ladd and Kris Kristofferson? bad hair, bad wardrobe, bad acting, good idea gone 80's?

 

[AnnetteMarie]

Millenium, based on a future society seeking to re-populate the Earth using 'clean' humans from the past. They go to disaster sites and take those about to die into the future, where they are humanity's chance to continue.

A John Varley novel, and I don't think it was done as well as Varley deserves. oh well.

 

[Schuyler]

What? You answer your own question and don't even give me a chance to respond? The nerve! Give me 60 seconds at least!

 

[mike]

You gotta start writing a script, Mike.

And end up having to share the buffet table with the likes of L roy hubbard in the next phase.......?

besides most people wouldnt be able to follow the plot, thinking quite naturally of course in linear time.

for example, that one of the Greys thats abducting you, could be.......you..., that is your uptime/outtime conciousness coming back to the original vessel.

think of it like this, you drive your second car, brand new back from the dealership and park it behind your old first car.... (lots of fond backseat memorys i'm sure)
but then you proceed to pillage your old car for the stereo and rims, before disposing of whats left.

perhaps we come back to our original vessels for compatable gene stock in order to build the new improved vehicles . like swapping your old gas guzzler for a new hybrid.........(sry couldnt resist)

i was also thinking about the "FEAR" factor often mentioned, could it be a sort of vaccination, a small taste of the greater reality given at a time when you are mentally able to process it.

the old "what right do you have to do this" response makes sense in this aspect, its the same right as being able to pillage the stereo from your first car.

and of course all the technology needed to make this scenario a reality, time travel, cloning, digitising and transfering of brain data....... its all being researched right now. if each of these three technology's reach the full potentional as envisaged, this could all happen, have happened, be happening....

thinking outside linear time seems to be the key, to a fuller understanding of the potentials at least... or at least it seems that way to me

 

[Schuyler]

And end up having to share the buffet table with the likes of L roy hubbard in the next phase.......?

I agree with Skunk, mike. You've got some extremely interesting ideas here--truly. I commend you and thank you for sharing them. But the thing is, you're throwing a lot of stuff out in single-sentence bursts kind of like throwing stuff on the wall to see what sticks. You're covering an awful lot of material from lots of different places. I hope you don't take this too badly, but it is disjointed and hard to follow. Precisely because it IS good, I think it deserves more careful attention--from you. And that's why I'd like to see you put together a cohesive essay putting forth your theory--complete with references, real paragraphs, and careful attention to detail. I think it would wind up being an 'original contribution to the field.' And THAT, sir, is the definition of a PhD dissertation.

Really, mike. Put some effort into this, write it up, turn it into a pdf on scribd.com, and I'll bet you'll have writers citing YOU as a reference in a very short time. I frankly do not think L. Ron Hubbard deserves a place at the buffet table, but you might!

 

[AnnetteMarie]

What? You answer your own question and don't even give me a chance to respond? The nerve! Give me 60 seconds at least!

ya snooze, ya looze... sorry Schuyler, was thinking out loud on the first one and it turned into a post.

 

[mike]

I agree with Skunk, mike. You've got some extremely interesting ideas here--truly. I commend you and thank you for sharing them. But the thing is, you're throwing a lot of stuff out in single-sentence bursts kind of like throwing stuff on the wall to see what sticks. You're covering an awful lot of material from lots of different places. I hope you don't take this too badly, but it is disjointed and hard to follow. Precisely because it IS good, I think it deserves more careful attention--from you. And that's why I'd like to see you put together a cohesive essay putting forth your theory--complete with references, real paragraphs, and careful attention to detail. I think it would wind up being an 'original contribution to the field.' And THAT, sir, is the definition of a PhD dissertation.

Really, mike. Put some effort into this, write it up, turn it into a pdf on scribd.com, and I'll bet you'll have writers citing YOU as a reference in a very short time. I frankly do not think L. Ron Hubbard deserves a place at the buffet table, but you might!

Thanks Mate, thats very kind of you.
typically the only things i "take badly" are when i inadvertantly cause upset in others, situations outside that im more interested in why i take something badly as opposed to dwelling to long on the feeling badly bit.

the disjointed firing off of ideas is for good or bad, the nature of the beast. one seed grows an idea, it in turn self seeds and grows the next, and so on.

i apoligise for the sloppy nature of the presentation, but to formalise it would be to kill off the self seeding nature of the process.
that the ideas and my best effort to group them have resonated with you, as your kind comments convey to me, is a great personal compliment, nothing to take badly here.
a PHD as a mechanism of validation, pales next to that in my view.

i could prob write it up as sci fi.....but then we're back to Mr Streiber or worse L Roy H....lol........

 

[mike]

Another disjointed analogy that comes to mind.
(oddly enough after trying to imagine Mr George Carlins reaction to waking up as a grey.....but i digress)

is the tadpole /frog scenario, a complete change of vehicle to allow a transition from one environment to the next, nature does this in micro and macro scale, we ourselves start out at least partially as vehicles that look like tadpoles, and evolution seems to suggest plenty of land species have evolved out of water species, the model is there for this sort of transformation...

if conciousness can be transfered thru a technological process,along with cloning and time/"true" travel (which seem to be at least on the cards.....) then copying this model becomes a potential possibility on a grand cosmic scale.
it may be a natural part of the evolution of any technically advanced species.
again the model is there for all to see in nature

our own bodies do this and we dont even notice

http://www.boston.com/yourlife/health/other/articles/2005/08/02/your_body_is_younger_than_you_think/

the body your conciousness is "wearing" now is not the same body it wore 20 years ago, our conciousness rides an ever evolving "copy" or clone of what it was previously

time travel and the other technologies mentioned only add an interesting twist to a process thats already happening to you

 

[CapnG]

Hang on... "copying"... anything that can be "backed up" can be copied. So how many of "you" could the universe support at one time? A hundred? A million? An entire civilization comprised of just you?

 

[mike]

Hang on... "copying"... anything that can be "backed up" can be copied. So how many of "you" could the universe support at one time? A hundred? A million? An entire civilization comprised of just you?

of course....., but how useful is a zillion copys of the same disk drive ?
another reason why saving each individual conciousness is important, the unique aspect of each one is where the "value" is.

a hive mind doesnt "grow" one bit by adding a million copies of one set of experience, it "grows" by incorporating a million unique conciousness experience sets.

i could use my camera to photograph an existing photograph over and over, but my photo album will have no real "depth" of subject, instead i take my camera out into the linear time world and snap away at every new thing i see...........


or an office with 100 PC's ... you could backup one HDD a hundred times, but thats not going to give you a "real" backup of the companys data..
to do that you would have to back up each and every one

either option is possible, but personally id go for a new picture everytime, it makes the album/hive mind more interesting

to me that might be a primary motivation of a species that could do these things, is to save the lineartime "snapshots" of conciousness and add them to the out-time population/hive mind. their specific "location" in linear time is a contributing factor to the unique nature of each experience

now.... now... there is an interesting logic junction just ahead of us here... i wonder if anyone else can peg it ?

 

[valiens]

Only good thing in Millennium: every time someone flicked a cigarette a laser shot and disintegrated it.

 

[mike]

You can imagine a virtuous scenario where the government/military would not disclose the "alien" presence to the masses. Does the same apply to the presence itself or is their secrecy always nefarious no matter how you slice it because they are the ones doing something to or with us sans explanation & consent?

i Know, it seems like i have hijacked this thread and taken it off topic, but the "logic junction" i mentioned may bring it all back into focus (i hope)

lets just say for the sake of the simple joy one might get from an imaginative foray, that my hypothesis has some semblance of merit, that the prescence is in fact "us" in the next dimension.

lets say for the sake of the plot, that just as placing a set of rotating blades canted at the right angle can un naturally lift you hundreds of feet in the air, so to can a toroid of rare earth metals rotating in a liquid, superconductive medium, manipulate Gravity, and in doing so manipulate time....
A simple technology, like the helicopter.
in being able to cancel out time, you step out of linear time.

so lets assume the greater reality is as ive described it thus far, that our linear time reality, and spontaneous conciousness in an animal species, acts as a sort of spawning ground for conciousness, which is then transfered at the point of death to the greater population living in the place generated when you step out of linear time.
that this is phase one of existance, the tadpole stage.

now what happens when time travel is actually invented in linear time.......................?

or rather what happens when the population living in linear time all become aware of its existance and want to use it to step out of linear time ?

the loop snaps shut, the snake eats its tail, there is no more growth.

now there are a couple of workarounds to this, one is that those who invent the technology can simply use it, and leave the rest of that "frame" in linear time to continue merrily away spawning original conciousness in the manner we see happening now.

this would allow you to continuing harvesting the conciousness component up and down time, relative to the moment the technology is invented.
with this in mind (more twists than a bag of pretzels i tell ya) the Atlanteans might have invented time travel cloning, and conciousness transfer long long ago............

alternatively if the invention of time travel or as i like to call it true travel (any where, anywhen) happens uptime relative to where we are now, then stopping the snake from eating its tail may entail use of the next dimension.

that is after true travel is invented its operators can step outside of linear time, in this "place" cause and effect as we know it no longer apply, they can then come downtime and make sure that we "dont" invent True travel and therefore create a new reality which locked into linear time will be a continuing source of the conciousness component

in either example , keeping the spawning ground locked in linear time is the key to the greater population growing.

perhaps disclosure, would be like taking the spawning grounds out of linear time, and thus destroying its ability to continue to populate the out-time or 4th dimensional universe.

 

[CapnG]

a hive mind doesnt "grow" one bit by adding a million copies of one set of experience, it "grows" by incorporating a million unique conciousness experience sets.

No, that's a linked mind. A hive mind is a singular conciousness driving the masses to their tasks like a bee hive (hence the name). A million copies of me linked to a core me. That's still an opportunity for growth, after all a million mes can get alot of shit done that one me cannot. But in the end it's still just me.

Greys are often reported doing similar things, acting in unison, even if they aren't directly involved in the activity, those in proximity are sometimes described as loosely mimicing the movements of other greys nearby. If one mind were giving singular directives to all then perhaps there's some risidual signal being picked up by otherwise unengaged components of the hive. Signal "bleed" as it were.