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Refuting the ETH: Angels/Aliens/Archetypes

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well my contribution, and my first post, has been totally ignored.

I am not impressed :(

No offense, it's just that this is a long thread, so people are continuing arguments over long periods. Best to get in early or post something so monumentally earth shattering that it makes people go "no way!" or "I never thought about it like that before." Anyway, I've said all I've got to say about this subject. If you want to see my point of view on something look back over the thread from the beginning. I think I've articulated it to my satisfaction, and I haven't got got much more to say really. So I'm off. I wish you all the best in your "debate"

Slan Libh.
 
Years ago and far far away, in an other universe ("made only more painful by the knowledge" McKenna and Procul Harum gained through drugs) we had these words from Kieran.

I think you be a fool to dismiss any theory in regards to the origins of UFOs. Everybody has a opinion,But one persons theory is not better than another persons theory to the origins, if you claim all the answers to the origins, are you saying then that this UFO occupants told you about their agenda and origins. I have a theory myself to the origins, i have not got a clue really, if i am right, i could be completely wrong in everything. I am very open minded to the whole trickster theory put forward by Chris, and the theory put forward by Mckenna. I don't think, you can dismiss any theory really.

I say:

What a fine example of circling the drain, and what people who will not think foist upon those who have some interest in making this a better world. Yes, everyone has an opinion, as well as a sphincter. They sometimes can open their mouth or other orifices and speak about their theory but seldom so obfuscated and contradictory in the same sentence. Speaking out of both sides of every orifice was perfected in religion a long time ago, I thought. But now we hear post modern savants galore holding forth their great wisdom. My opinion is just as good as yours!

But is it informed?

Love this though!

"Whether you believe in a demon of the air or in a factor in the unconscious that plays diabolical tricks on you is all one to me. The fact that man's imagined unity is menaced by alien powers remains the same in either case". Carl Jung "The Archetypes of the Collective Unconscious
 
I think you be a fool to dismiss any theory in regards to the origins of UFOs. Everybody has a opinion,But one persons theory is not better than another persons theory to the origins,

I think the ETH is inherently more probable than other views. WE are "spacefaring aliens" to the rest of the Universe. There's no clear indication if any at all, that other dimensions or spirit realms even exist.


if you claim all the answers to the origins, are you saying then that this UFO occupants told you about their agenda and origins.

No it's just more likely and logical. We all know about "high strangeness" but IMO it doesn't disprove the ETH. It just shows the phenomenon is trying to confuse us--possibly to keep us guessing, endlessly, while they proceed with their agenda.
 
Dear Trajanus

First of all you should read where that post came from which you are quoting as if I wrote it.

Then you can assume what I say that follows applies to you as well.

You say:

the phenomenon is trying to confuse us--possibly to keep us guessing, endlessly, while they proceed with their agenda.

I say:

You are seeking 'easy answers' and are easily confused. You have given your mind to the agenda of the cult you are part of.
 
You are seeking 'easy answers' and are easily confused.

No I think others are. There is ample evidence for a physical, technical phenomenon. But there are many cases in which it doesn't behave the way spacefarers "ought to." Some of the alien appearances or behaviors are so absurd they must be a show, to confuse us.
 
Some of the alien appearances or behaviors are so absurd they must be a show, to confuse us.
But these must be looked at on a case by case basis and examined for ALL possibilities. Usually, these can be narrowed down to about 3 likely causes that are likely true with one being correct. Well, guess what, please find one case that will be more likely the ET-UFO vs some other more likely explanation. Just one, please.

That's ' The Problem ' for ET-UFO people, because every case I know of likely has a better explanation for the real cause NOT being an ET-UFO.

Sure, that leaves open the remote possibility it might be an ET-UFO, but that's just wishful thinking for "I want to believe". IMO.

What's worse is Humans can now easily fake ET-UFO's through the media and at night too, so it's ALWAYS going to be Humans almost certainly for now. There needs to be new detector equipment developed that somehow bypasses the fraud and nighttime fakes.
 
But these must be looked at on a case by case basis and examined for ALL possibilities. Usually, these can be narrowed down to about 3 likely causes that are likely true with one being correct. Well, guess what, please find one case that will be more likely the ET-UFO vs some other more likely explanation. Just one, please.

Even for HS cases I think nearly all are ET. Other possibilities are hoax and hallucination. A hoaxer wouldn't diminish the credibility of his claim by portraying spacefarers as acting real strange. Investigators would dismiss any report from someone prone to hallucination e.g. medical history.

That's ' The Problem ' for ET-UFO people, because every case I know of likely has a better explanation for the real cause NOT being an ET-UFO.

Not true of Roswell, Kecksburg, Socorro etc.
 
But these must be looked at on a case by case basis and examined for ALL possibilities. Usually, these can be narrowed down to about 3 likely causes that are likely true with one being correct. Well, guess what, please find one case that will be more likely the ET-UFO vs some other more likely explanation. Just one, please.

That's ' The Problem ' for ET-UFO people, because every case I know of likely has a better explanation for the real cause NOT being an ET-UFO.

Sure, that leaves open the remote possibility it might be an ET-UFO, but that's just wishful thinking for "I want to believe". IMO.

What's worse is Humans can now easily fake ET-UFO's through the media and at night too, so it's ALWAYS going to be Humans almost certainly for now. There needs to be new detector equipment developed that somehow bypasses the fraud and nighttime fakes.

I guess it is always a good idea to assume that an open-minded person exists in this world, who has tried to find a reason to believe in ET. If I was to tell you I argued for ET for a decade or more before I started more in depth research into Black Ops and why things happen I imagine many people here would say -NO WAY, he lies.

After meeting a back engineer from Tonopah who worked on exotic technology, a VP in charge of the Skunk Works, and knowing S-4 photos of what looked like alien craft were being shown to high school kids all over Las Vegas - I was on the fence still. I could argue either side. The Vimanas and the Texas early 20th C. crash still made some sense even after I learned secret knowledge not taught to us in schools included propulsion methods and energy generation was known at least as far back as the Megaliths.

The deeper into past knowledge I went and once I learned how mind control (even remote killing) was there in the staffs of Moses which became the tepaphone; I was more and more on the side - all human. Trans en-Provence, David Rockefeller and the Kissinger speech about the Intergalactic Brotherhood still haunted me though.

I suppose you have all read this - talk about Conspiracy still runs rampant. DS even does it. Gary Allen did a decent job and got a lot of money from his political backers - I even had his book stolen years after the vote was over and the Rockefellers were no doubt involved (I still think.). But I am only recently (five years after writing over 80 books) convinced our only hope is that the Illuminized groups (Bilderbergs became a social Club after media investigations got inside.) will decide to do what people will not do. Plan for Earth to become safe from ignorance and corruption in bureaucracies!!!! Henry Makow and Whale or the Dragon Court articles that appear open-minded are not all so safe or rational sources.

The Dulce Book by Branton
 
But I am only recently (five years after writing over 80 books) convinced our only hope is that the Illuminized groups (Bilderbergs became a social Club after media investigations got inside.) will decide to do what people will not do. Plan for Earth to become safe from ignorance and corruption in bureaucracies!!!!
Who are these Illuminized groups? How will they accomplish it? This is what they're planning?...Plan for Earth to become safe from ignorance and corruption in bureaucracies.

What's the Dulce book there for? What exactly is your point about that?
 
My point about the various things in the link to the Dulce Book is that thousands of such efforts have yielded no answers except for those deluded Belief brainwashed people who do not know how their beliefs were caused.

Illuminized people are people in all walks of life who study and learn. As they communicate and get together they sometimes talk and exchange ideas inside libraries and sitting in leather chairs or sipping brandy. You call them names and make no plans. If you knew history and the secrets they have kept you would view your present state as Ignorance.

Now you know there are many who are more ignorant and those who are even less interested in making pragmatic prioritized plans to address the future of all life on Earth. And you could point your fingers at many institutions with many names including Brain Trusts. But the fact is - there is no one who has tried harder than the Illuminati to help mankind get past their Ignorant ego-driven belief in sayings like "God is Great!" or "Everyone's opinion has validity."
 
That's exactly it - these are theories... there's no proof for any of it that's anything more than anecdotal. For now, I don't think any of it is anything supernatural or paranormal. It's all things that we either misidentify or something we may not have figured out yet. Probably not aliens though.
 
Dear Traj

You are right about that. But theories are now overcome by facts.

It is more than the Exodus which is fiction - more by far. The Jews still ran Egypt or it's economy for their elite business Empire long before and after Akhenaten (Who might be Moses). There is an island in the Nile called Elephantine where a Jewish garrison of elite fighting men existed a millennium or more after Moses.

The kings, pharaoh's and others who operated in different lands with different languages had many titles and names. Moses (Like Jesus) is a title. It means leader. Just like Abaris (Avaris in Egypt) which translates to Rabbi we have Moshe Rabbenue. But I have re-written history enough that the future of humanity can pierce the lies of Empire and hopefully reclaim Jesus (which means Brotherhood). The Moshe in Peru from before the Inca (Sun Kings or Heliopolitans = Phoenicians or Druids which Thomas Paine's posthumous book tells us is the origin of Masonry.)

The staffs of Moses were made by and cared for by Jasher who was the consort of Miriam or Mariae the Prophetessoriae who likely was the sister (or half sister with incestual bonds as per usual). She is more real than his myth, we have extant alchemical treatise or writing in her name. Moses and the myth of the bulrushes exists in archaeology from centuries before among the Hatti or Hittites in Turkey (If memory serves.). There is so much Bull rushing around the history our nations and laws are founded upon it will take many decades for people to grasp how much our leaders have lied to us.


The Exodus and Hyksos

Abaris (trans. Rabbi) The Druid

The Great Pyramid - Hoax and Theft

Jesus and the Gnostic Cathars

A little from one of the above.

The Exodus and Hyksos
When the Egypt Exploration Fund was created they had memoranda and articles of incorporation that directed the funding for site excavations which showed promise of being outside the Bible Narrative - should not be researched! This troublesome kind of bias is beyond reproach because sites like Memphis have been built over and for all intents and purposes destroyed. In the efforts of people like Schliemann (Troy) and Evans (Crete) to uncover their dreams that led from the 'myths' of Homer they also confused and made horrible mistakes that allow debunking science to discredit artifacts that would have proven valuable. There are so many examples of actual government destruction of artifacts and people's careers that it is hard to pick one single example.

Despite the negative aspects of archaeology illustrated in the Kensington Rune Stone response of Mr. Wiseman; there is a very real possibility that the truth will become realized in sufficient degree for good people to regain their freedom. W. F. Albright is considered the 'father of Biblical Archaeology' by the Biblical Archaeology Review. His admission and awareness that the Phoenicians are the major creators of the Bible in the 50s and 60s has not reached the public or even the academics at large. In time and with a great deal of outside detective work it seems some of us are able to paint a new picture of history, due in large part to the effort of archaeologists even if they don't know the meaning behind the things they uncover. “The process that we describe here is, in fact, the opposite of what we have in the Bible: the emergence of early Israel was an outcome of the collapse of the Canaanite culture, not its cause. And most of the Israelites did not come from outside Canaan – they emerged from within it. There was no mass Exodus from Egypt. There was no violent conquest of Canaan. Most of the people who formed early Israel were local people – the same people whom we see in the highlands throughout the Bronze and Iron Ages. The early Israelites were – irony of ironies – themselves originally Canaanites!" [1] Finkelstein & Silberman The Bible Unearthed, 118


In 1982's December issue of the National Geographic they were still promoting 'The People's of the Sea' theory that Gasten Maspero (a French historian of the 19th century) created from very little factual data. This issue dealt with the 'digs' at Deir el-Balah in the Gaza strip! Moshe Dayan (The Israeli Defense Minister) was a purchaser and assembler of some of the artifacts that look very ethnically diverse. The site was admittedly cosmopolitan and had been used by many different cultures as well as some key figures from history. Here is a quote from the inset to an artists' rendition.

"Life's pleasures enhance palace life at Deir el-Balah {Remember Ba'al the Phoenician god is also Bel in Keltic clandoms.} in an artist's rendition. In the Amarna tomb relief that served as his model, Queen Nefertiti decants wine through a strainer for Akhenaten, using vessels similar to a bronze set found at the Gaza site. Floor plan of partially excavated buildings at level 6, under the archaeologists' grid, suggests a layout similar to palaces built in Egypt during Akhenaten's rule." (6)

Heliopolis is the site of the Phoenician rulers of Egypt and is perhaps Ba'albek - and it may have been in other places at other times, as is the case with Byblos and Byblus. My perception at this juncture is the Hyksos Kings period was a time of aristocratic inter-marriages between Phoenicians in Troy and Egypt (1800 BC to 1300 BC.) before the beginning of a truly worldwide war. (Trojan - Homer tells of 19 battles for major centers) It is becoming clearer to many researchers that the Phoenician contingent among the Hebrews (named after a language drawn from Phoenician or their common root) were being warred upon by another group who designed these languages who were quite advanced and more like politicians than businessmen. On one side they included the Arimatheans (Robert Graves, Michael Bradley and others), Benjaminites and all the top corporate trading elite, who were engaged in trade with far away places. On the other side many of them have the BEE as their symbol. That includes Phocaeans, Mallia, the Royal House on Crete from 2000 BC., Egyptians and on to the Merovingians of Childeric and then Napoleon through marriage. It has taken more than one book to wade through all the twists and turns of the Sons of Aeneus, Brutti etc..
 
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“Who cares what the color means? How do you know what he meant to say? I mean, did he leave another book called "Symbolism in My Books?" If he didn't, then you could just be making all of this up. Does anyone really think this guy sat down and stuck all kinds of hidden meanings into his story? It's just a story.... But I think you are making all of this symbolism stuff up. I don't believe any of it.”
― Laurie Halse Anderson, Speak

And we wonder why there is so much ignorance in this world. If one asks what she means about 'know'ing what would she say? Would it involve something like - "I want to know what I can use to make money or get a correct answer. I don't care if it is what the author meant so long as my fellow man agrees."

And for those who try to understand the why of choosing one meme over another we have a whole lot of reasons they have yet to start to understand.

Manly Hall has given many learned people a lot to think about and yet it would appear most academics involved in linguistics have little or no awareness of his excellent scholarship. We need to crack all codes in symbology before we can honestly say we know what technology and wisdom the ancients had. The language of the birds or BRDs is one of the most ancient systems which I think evolved into the Hermetic Green Languages used by the likes of Goethe (Founder of a Jesuit short term Illuminized group most people ramble on about as if it is all there was.), Thomas Carlyle in Sartor Restartus, Jonathan Swift and many more. In my work on Shakespeare I uncovered Francis Bacon using code to claim the works of his friend William whose work he published. It took about 50 years for some people to decipher it and now there are many who think it means Bacon wrote Shakespeare. Such is the way of ignorant ego among pretenders to knowledge. As Hugo knew, Shakespeare also wrote in hermetic code.

"The arcana of the ancient Mysteries were never revealed to the profane except through the media of symbols. Symbolism fulfilled the dual office of concealing the sacred truths from the uninitiated and revealing them to those qualified to understand the symbols. Forms are the symbols of formless divine principles; symbolism is the language of Nature. With reverence the wise pierce the veil and with clearer vision contemplate the reality; but the ignorant, unable to distinguish between the false and the true, behold a universe of symbols. It may well be said of Nature--the Great Mother--that she is ever tracing strange characters upon the surface of things, but only to her eldest and wisest sons as a reward for their faith and devotion does she reveal the cryptic alphabet which is the key to the import of these tracings.

The temples of the ancient Mysteries evolved their own sacred languages, known only to their initiates and never spoken save in the sanctuary. The illumined priests considered it sacrilege to discuss the sacred truths of the higher worlds or the divine verities of eternal Nature in the same tongue as that used by the vulgar for wrangling and dissension. A sacred science must needs be couched in a sacred language. Secret alphabets also were invented, and whenever the secrets of the wise were committed to writing, characters meaningless to the uninformed were employed. Such forms of writing were called sacred or Hermetic alphabets. Some--such as the famous angelic writing--are still retained in the higher degrees of Masonry.

Secret alphabets were not entirely satisfactory, however, for although they rendered unintelligible the true nature of the writings, their very presence disclosed the fact of concealed information--which the priests also sought to conceal. Through patience or persecution, the keys to these alphabets were eventually acquired and the contents of the documents revealed to the unworthy. This necessitated employment of more subtle methods for concealing the divine truths. The result was the appearance of cryptic systems of writing designed to conceal the presence of both the message and the cryptogram. Having thus devised a method of transmitting their secrets to posterity, the illuminati encouraged the circulation of certain documents specially prepared through incorporating into them ciphers containing the deepest secrets of mysticism and philosophy. Thus medieval philosophers disseminated their theories throughout Europe without evoking suspicion, since volumes containing these cryptograms could be subjected to the closest scrutiny without revealing the presence of the hidden message."

Secret Teachings of All Ages: The Cryptogram as a factor in Symbolic Philosophy
 
..there's no proof for any of it

That laymen know of...

that's anything more than anecdotal.

There has long been some physical evidence and photos to work with. Also injuries.

For now, I don't think any of it is anything supernatural or paranormal. It's all things that we either misidentify

I doubt it.

or something we may not have figured out yet. Probably not aliens though.

Often it sure looks like aliens. It's the most parsimonious view.
 
That's the thing though. You can't just say there's no proof that laymen know of and call it a day. There is no proof of it like there is for say bio-luminescent fish that no one would have thought existed before. Just a few years ago that sounded nut and I would have never believed it, but then we got proof and not it's a fact. Once we have proof like that, that aliens are visiting Earth, I'm in.
 
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