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Riot Day in Ferguson, Missouri

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Generally speaking within any culture or society you find a certain level of inclusiveness. It can and does in some cases get projected in a benign way i.e. "you're not one of us, but we accept you anyways" conditionally of course. But if that culture achieves a certain status of power and control you can bet their lower instincts will come out. Consider Zimbardo's Stanford Prison Experiment and Abu Ghraib. I suppose that's not the best parallel as you are talking about people being put into a oppressive hostile enviornment but at the same time you could argue that almost any act that involves denying a culture it's identity or value as an identity will gradually become more oppressive and hostile and become a self fulfilling prophecy. And it still shows what lies within even the most reasonable of people.

If this country isn't already been occupied with a native population if we had closed our doors to other races and never got involved with slavery there would still be a part of the population that would enforce itself on another part. There is nothing wrong with speaking out against racism and maybe that is the best approach but i think it's better to tackle intolerance but whichever approach you want to take i just don't think you will ever eliminate it, you can only hope to contain it.
 
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This has all branched of now from the rioting, gone much deeper, i think every child is born equal in chance roughly, i would say clever people have clever children, but they dont, they have children better equipped by breeding at absorbing information, im pretty sure an african baby adopted by the same people would also end up nearly as smart, if they have been given the same chance to absorb the same education and end their lives having made a comfortable life for themselves, and their children.

Theres one thing for sure, you wouldnt find either of them rioting.



Speaking as a man, you have too admire a blackmans athletic physical presence, some of them are huge, mind you so are the germans, but big black guys are more impressive, im not talking in a gay way, blokes will understand what i mean, the ones inferior humans like us never like to make eye contact with, the ones that scare you, when your honest enough to admit it to yourself.



I will put it in a nutshell, blackmen frighten whitemen, they are in general physically superior.

And no amount of educating whitemen will change that.
 
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If you want to find out how racist, sexist, ableist etc, you are - go to Project Implicit.

OK, I went to:

ProjectImplicit
logged in as guest, chose "take a test" ... then I took the Weapons IAT test:

Weapons ('Weapons - Harmless Objects' IAT). This IAT requires the ability to recognize White and Black faces, and images of weapons or harmless objects.

My result:

Your data suggest a strong association of Black Americans with Weapons compared to White Americans.

The interpretation is described as 'automatic association between weapons and White Americans' if you responded faster when weapons and White American images were classified with the same key than when weaponse and Black Americans were classified with the same key. Depending on the magnitude of your result, your automatic association may be described as 'slight', 'moderate', 'strong', or 'little to no preference'.


Blindspot: Hidden Biases of Good People: Mahzarin R. Banaji, Anthony G. Greenwald: 9780553804645: Amazon.com: Books
 
Thank you for your honesty. I have yet to take this but have no doubt whatsoever that i will achieve the same result...or thereabouts...and yet I cringe at the thought of me personally performing an anti social act on someone or depriving someone with a different coloring of things That are considered basic in a society.

And thanks to Steve, i just downloaded a new book that I can add to my 5 mile long reading list . Although it's not strictly about racism I recommend this very similar book. I love listening to Shankar Vedantam on morning edition.

The Hidden Brain: How Our Unconscious Minds Elect Presidents, Control Markets, Wage Wars, and Save Our Lives: Shankar Vedantam: 9780385525220: Amazon.com: Books

Shankar Vedantam
 
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Hitler was adjudged as crazy, and righly so ofcourse, but ive wondered how he managed to make those around him evil, with what i always was led to believe was his madness.

But the reality as normal is not in the spin, the reality is eugenic's was implemented europe wide, with most luminaries of the time fully behind it, Gorge Bernard Shaw being one of its most vocal advocates, Hitler along with other European state's started eliminating their 'runt' in the early 1930s.

Even after the war eugenics was still strongly advocated in europe, even the contrecetive pill was developed to stop the genetically deficient from reproducing, burdens to the state.

The very man the created the welfare state in Britain was a vocal eugenics advocate, Hitler AND his henchmen were a product of THEIR time.

William-Beveridge-007.jpg

William Beveridge, who argued that those with 'general defects' should be denied not only the vote, but 'civil freedom and fatherhood'. Photograph: Hans Wild/Time & Life Pictures/Getty Images


It is eugenics, the belief that society's fate rested on its ability to breed more of the strong and fewer of the weak. So-called positive eugenics meant encouraging those of greater intellectual ability and "moral worth" to have more children, while negative eugenics sought to urge, or even force, those deemed inferior to reproduce less often or not at all. The aim was to increase the overall quality of the national herd, multiplying the thoroughbreds and weeding out the runts.

Such talk repels us now, but in the prewar era it was the common sense of the age. Most alarming, many of its leading advocates were found among the luminaries of the Fabian and socialist left, men and women revered to this day. Thus George Bernard Shaw could insist that "the only fundamental and possible socialism is the socialisation of the selective breeding of man", even suggesting, in a phrase that chills the blood, that defectives be dealt with by means of a "lethal chamber".

Such thinking was not alien to the great Liberal titan and mastermind of the welfare state, William Beveridge, who argued that those with "general defects" should be denied not only the vote, but "civil freedom and fatherhood". Indeed, a desire to limit the numbers of the inferior was written into modern notions of birth control from the start. That great pioneer of contraception, Marie Stopes – honoured with a postage stamp in 2008 – was a hardline eugenicist, determined that the "hordes of defectives" be reduced in number, thereby placing less of a burden on "the fit". Stopes later disinherited her son because he had married a short-sighted woman, thereby risking a less-than-perfect grandchild.

Yet what looks kooky or sinister in 2012 struck the prewar British left as solid and sensible.



Yet what looks kooky or sinister in 2012 struck the prewar British left as solid and sensible. Harold Laski, stellar LSE professor, co-founder of the Left Book Club and one-time chairman of the Labour party, cautioned that: "The time is surely coming … when society will look upon the production of a weakling as a crime against itself." Meanwhile, JBS Haldane, admired scientist and socialist, warned that: "Civilisation stands in real danger from over-production of 'undermen'." That's Untermenschen in German.

I'm afraid even the Manchester Guardian was not immune. When a parliamentary report in 1934 backed voluntary sterilisation of the unfit, a Guardian editorial offered warm support, endorsing the sterilisation campaign "the eugenists soundly urge". If it's any comfort, the New Statesman was in the same camp.

According to Dennis Sewell, whose book The Political Gene charts the impact of Darwinian ideas on politics, the eugenics movement's definition of "unfit" was not limited to the physically or mentally impaired. It held, he writes, "that most of the behavioural traits that led to poverty were inherited. In short, that the poor were genetically inferior to the educated middle class." It was not poverty that had to be reduced or even eliminated: it was the poor.

Hence the enthusiasm of John Maynard Keynes, director of the Eugenics Society from 1937 to 1944, for contraception, essential because the working class was too "drunken and ignorant" to keep its numbers down


Eugenics: the skeleton that rattles loudest in the left's closet | Jonathan Freedland | Comment is free | The Guardian
 
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Thank you for your honesty. I have yet to take this but have no doubt whatsoever that i will achieve the same result...or thereabouts...and yet I cringe at the thought of me personally performing an anti social act on someone or depriving someone with a different coloring of things That are considered basic in a society.

And thanks to Steve, i just downloaded a new book that I can add to my 5 mile long reading list . Although it's not strictly about racism I recommend this very similar book. I love listening to Shankar Vedantam on morning edition.

The Hidden Brain: How Our Unconscious Minds Elect Presidents, Control Markets, Wage Wars, and Save Our Lives: Shankar Vedantam: 9780385525220: Amazon.com: Books

Shankar Vedantam

I don't think these results say anything about what you are likely to do in an overt conscious way ... but I pay attention to what my brain does all day long and it's constantly judging, profiling and stereo typing ... the more conscious I am of this the more I can make choices about it.
 
OK, I went to:

ProjectImplicit
logged in as guest, chose "take a test" ... then I took the Weapons IAT test:

Weapons ('Weapons - Harmless Objects' IAT). This IAT requires the ability to recognize White and Black faces, and images of weapons or harmless objects.
I've never done the weapons' test before, so that was interesting. I've done about five of these over the years. I'm fascinated by the diversity of test types that have grown since the first black vs. white bias test, and how it has diversified by creating different tests for different global regions.

My result: "Your data suggest little to no difference in automatic association between Weapons and African American faces vs. European American faces."

Now i consume the same media as everyone else and am inundated with news reports out of Toronto regarding lack youth getting shot and young black men shooting each other year over year. But i also know that gun crimes are predominately a white suburban event so maybe i just discount that media hype. Not ever having played Grand Theft Auto might also have something to do with how I perceive people. i also work with black youth daily and so gun association is never something that is part of my day, but i see how they struggle a lot more than other kids. I have had powerful black mentors in my life that have shaped different parts of my work in areas of diversity education. Reading Black Like Me in Grade 12 (& The Ecstasy of Rita Joe) back in the early 80's i would describe as life altering.

It would be interesting to hear other results from forum participants regarding their honest test scores.
Thanks smcder for your honesty. How has watching your brain judge others changed the way, if at all, that you judge other people?
 
im not talking in a gay way, blokes will understand what i mean, the ones inferior humans like us never like to make eye contact with, the ones that scare you, when your honest enough to admit it to yourself.



I will put it in a nutshell, blackmen frighten whitemen, they are in general physically superior.

And no amount of educating whitemen will change that.
So I appreciate all the honesty here too but have to patently disagree. Just as men can train themselves to stare at women in the eye when they talk with them, as opposed to their breasts or just roaming around their bodies visually, white people can train themselves out of their implicit fear. Everything is just awareness or mindfulness training. White people can learn to look black people in the eye in everyday conversation, stop clutching their purses in elevators or walking towards the other side of the mall as a group of black youth approach them. This type of training gets easier as the days go on. 23 days of this in a row and you'll make a life habit.

Smiling at people comes next.
 
I've never done the weapons' test before, so that was interesting. I've done about five of these over the years. I'm fascinated by the diversity of test types that have grown since the first black vs. white bias test, and how it has diversified by creating different tests for different global regions.

My result: "Your data suggest little to no difference in automatic association between Weapons and African American faces vs. European American faces."

Now i consume the same media as everyone else and am inundated with news reports out of Toronto regarding lack youth getting shot and young black men shooting each other year over year. But i also know that gun crimes are predominately a white suburban event so maybe i just discount that media hype. Not ever having played Grand Theft Auto might also have something to do with how I perceive people. i also work with black youth daily and so gun association is never something that is part of my day, but i see how they struggle a lot more than other kids. I have had powerful black mentors in my life that have shaped different parts of my work in areas of diversity education. Reading Black Like Me in Grade 12 (& The Ecstasy of Rita Joe) back in the early 80's i would describe as life altering.

It would be interesting to hear other results from forum participants regarding their honest test scores.
Thanks smcder for your honesty. How has watching your brain judge others changed the way, if at all, that you judge other people?

A spotless record Burnt!

What were your other test results?

I too have never played GT auto avd consume little news media.

The only time I pulled a gun on someone they were the same skin color ... I've boxed and grappled with various ethniceties ... once tossed a young man from Japan a high beautiful arc up and off the mat ... I remember thinking "huh, he's tall for a Jap!" ;-) but no weapons there ...

My brain is hilarious Burnt - stocked with various rural southern stereotypes ... I read Little Sambo cartoons at Shoneys Big Boy growing up ... on the other hand I watched Roots on TV and my parents talked about it and my mom fought battles for race and sex in the public school system against a powerful GOB network ... and won and one of my towns first mixed couples lived next door ... In college I tried to kiss my African American acting partner when the script called for it because she was so beautiful but she wouldn't have it though of course she harbored a secret crush due to my "classic profile" then my stepdaughter was biracial and we had a hard time here and Texas getting housing ...

Still it sometimes says "back off Indian female behind the wheel!" Or "what a surprisingly articulate black male!" ... I smile and calm the poor thing down and say "Now, now let's get to know that person better if we can." A bit like training a dog really.

One other memory - I lived in Germany as a teen and until I learned the language I was frequently berated as an American, called to account for Reagan's missiles on their soil ... so I was a minority of one for a bit there.

As for judging others ... well there's not much I haven't done or imagined doing that I could honestly stand in judgement on someone for ... though I have to remind myself from time to time. I'm probably capable of most anything Burnt ... so I watch myself closely. People seem to always think I'm a cop. Very occasionally someone with vision comes along, like John, the heroin addict and tells the truth:

"You're a really nice guy but I bet you can be a son of a bitch!"

"I've been called worse John. And you're very perceptive for a heroin addict."

;-)

Since then I figure being honest protects me ... and everyone else.

Sundown Towns - Encyclopedia of Arkansas
 
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Nonsense .Maybe in America.Not everywhere.(Living in Belgium)

Lots of hits for racism in Belgium:

Belgium heads EU racism league - News - The Independent

Sixteen thousand people across the 15 EU countries were asked in a survey to pass judgement on themselves. The results, presented yesterday by the European Commission, show, in the report's words, "a worrying level of racism and xenophobia in member-states".
The dubious distinction of first place goes to Belgium, home of the Commission. According to the study, ordered by Eurocrats to mark the passing of "European Year Against Racism", 22 per cent of Belgians professed to be "very racist" and 33 per cent "quite racist".
Britain weighs in at equal seventh with Germany, with 8 per cent self- confessed "very racist" and 24 per cent "quite racist". A further 33 per cent of Britons considered themselves "a little racist". Only in Luxembourg and Portugal do a majority feel "not at all racist".


Racism rampant in Belgium’s labour market | The Bulletin

The Belgian labour market is based on “ethnostratification”, according to the European Network Against Racism (ENAR), meaning that racial and ethnic origin play a major role in determining a person’s employment prospects.
The network found Belgium to be a source of “continuing inequality and an undeniable hierarchy of socio-economic positions”. The least likely to benefit from employment opportunities in Europe, according to the network, are those of Maghreb origin from North Africa. In Belgium, that translates to those of Moroccan background.


2006 Brussels riots - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Racist Murder Shocks Brussels Africans | The Brussels Journal

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/20...r-racist-images-of-obama-used-in-satire/?_r=0

A fascinating map of the world’s most and least racially tolerant countries - The Washington Post
By contrast, the study of 80 countries over three decades found Western countries were most accepting of other cultures with Britain, the U.S., Canada and Australia more tolerant than anywhere else.
 
I've never done the weapons' test before, so that was interesting. I've done about five of these over the years. I'm fascinated by the diversity of test types that have grown since the first black vs. white bias test, and how it has diversified by creating different tests for different global regions.

My result: "Your data suggest little to no difference in automatic association between Weapons and African American faces vs. European American faces."

Now i consume the same media as everyone else and am inundated with news reports out of Toronto regarding lack youth getting shot and young black men shooting each other year over year. But i also know that gun crimes are predominately a white suburban event so maybe i just discount that media hype. Not ever having played Grand Theft Auto might also have something to do with how I perceive people. i also work with black youth daily and so gun association is never something that is part of my day, but i see how they struggle a lot more than other kids. I have had powerful black mentors in my life that have shaped different parts of my work in areas of diversity education. Reading Black Like Me in Grade 12 (& The Ecstasy of Rita Joe) back in the early 80's i would describe as life altering.

It would be interesting to hear other results from forum participants regarding their honest test scores.
Thanks smcder for your honesty. How has watching your brain judge others changed the way, if at all, that you judge other people?

Northern Ontario shows 1.5% "visible minorities" ... that may also have a lot to do with associations you did or didn't form.

What was it like growing up? I couldn't find census data online.

Northern Ontario - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Canada 2006 Census Population % of total population
Visible minority group
Source:[16] Black 2,700 0.4
Chinese 2,685 0.4
Filipino 1,055 0.1
Latin American 850 0.1
South Asian 1,700 0.2
Southeast Asian 675 0.1
Other visible minority 2,105 0.2

Total visible minority population 11,850 1.5
Aboriginal group
Source:[16] First Nations 65,860 8.8
Inuit 180 0
Métis 27,780 3.7
Total Aboriginal population 95,645 12.8

White 637,800 85.6

Total population 745,320 100
 
This has all branched of now from the rioting, gone much deeper, i think every child is born equal in chance roughly, i would say clever people have clever children, but they dont, they have children better equipped by breeding at absorbing information, im pretty sure an african baby adopted by the same people would also end up nearly as smart, if they have been given the same chance to absorb the same education and end their lives having made a comfortable life for themselves, and their children.

Theres one thing for sure, you wouldnt find either of them rioting.



Speaking as a man, you have too admire a blackmans athletic physical presence, some of them are huge, mind you so are the germans, but big black guys are more impressive, im not talking in a gay way, blokes will understand what i mean, the ones inferior humans like us never like to make eye contact with, the ones that scare you, when your honest enough to admit it to yourself.



I will put it in a nutshell, blackmen frighten whitemen, they are in general physically superior.

And no amount of educating whitemen will change that.

A more nuanced view:
Race and sports - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And then there is this ...

Men Vs. Women In Endurance Sports | ACTIVE

Female Freediving Champion Shatters History | Sport Diver

Turks and Caicos - Defying physics and critics alike, world champion freediver Tanya Streeter shattered both the men's and women's variable ballast freediving world records on Monday, July 21st in the Turks and Caicos Islands. Recording her eighth overall world record, Streeter made history when she descended 400 feet (122 meters) to capture the variable ballast record and become the first freediver to ever break all four deep freediving world records, confirming her status as the world's strongest freediver, said John Skippings, director of tourism for the Turks & Caicos Tourism Board.

Can you back any of this up with statistics Manxie? I'm searching various height weight charts etc ... remember athletes are the tiniest percentage of the overall population and self selected ... have a look at the lineup of World's Strongest Men and the predominance of tiny Iceland in contributing to victors ... especially men named Magnusson. Then Olympic Lifting and Powerlifting. You won't find a more physically intimidating bunch ...

Or the Japanese Sumo literally bred for size, although they look fat, they carry only about 20%body fat which is lower than the average adult male ... they sport the most lean muscle mass on the planet ... the tallest average males come from Denmark I believe.

I dunno ... I don't remember avoiding eye contact with anyone ... my dad was athletic representative for his college and we had the basketball players over all the time, they taught me how to shoot and high jump and run and the biggest, tallest scariest of them all was a very white guy who stood 6'8" and was a math major, really nice guy. So I never thought of black athletes as scary at all.

Now a couple of people I have run into have set the hair on the back of my neck on end, one was a scrawny African American who had been diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia and one was a fairly robust (but not what I would call physically superior) Caucasian who I have reason to suspect actually may have been a serial killer ... other than that I kind of liked taking on the big guys - being 5'8 and 225-240 at my peak (I started out as the classic 98 pound weakling, by no means a born athlete), if I could get someone on the ground, it was pretty much over.

Scary people come in all sizes and shapes. It has to do with the way they think.

As to your theory ... you would love Herrnstein and Murray's The Bell Curve

Human Intelligence: The Bell Curve

- but be sure and read what others have said about it ... Stephen J Gould's The Mismeasure of Man is particularly eloquent in rebuttal:

The Mismeasure of Man (Revised & Expanded): Stephen Jay Gould: 9780393314250: Amazon.com: Books
 
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I'm probable going to get flamed here but I would argue that such proclamations as being a "proud black man" or "proud white man" or "proud black women" are racist concepts even if its an attempt at self affirmation.

They are indeed racist, but apparently that's the way the world is going.

Burnt State has changed my mind. I used to think it was wrong to stereotype people into race and class groupings. I thought each individual should be judged on their behavior and the content of their character, not the color of their skin, or what cultural group they belonged to.

That was wrong. Burnt State has shown me that race is the way of the future. In the 20th century economic class was used by Marxists to compel groups to fight each other. In the 21st century race and ethnicity are what the Marxists will use to divide and conquer.

White people are only 7% of the population. We are on the verge of extinction. Japanese culture is worth preserving. Tibetan culture is worth preserving. Native American culture is worth preserving. African culture is worth preserving. Chinese culture is worth preserving. Is European culture is worth preserving?
 
With the news from the big apple this thread is going to bust open again. It will be interesting to hear the talking points on this being that the medical examiner ruled it a homicide.And the victim made it clear he couldn't breath yet the officer didn't let up. I Didn't keep up with this case too much but from what I heard the victim didn't. ..or couldn't. ..put up any resistance and was merely Hawking a couple of smokes.
 
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A more nuanced view:
Race and sports - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And then there is this ...

Men Vs. Women In Endurance Sports | ACTIVE

Female Freediving Champion Shatters History | Sport Diver

Turks and Caicos - Defying physics and critics alike, world champion freediver Tanya Streeter shattered both the men's and women's variable ballast freediving world records on Monday, July 21st in the Turks and Caicos Islands. Recording her eighth overall world record, Streeter made history when she descended 400 feet (122 meters) to capture the variable ballast record and become the first freediver to ever break all four deep freediving world records, confirming her status as the world's strongest freediver, said John Skippings, director of tourism for the Turks & Caicos Tourism Board.

Can you back any of this up with statistics Manxie? I'm searching various height weight charts etc ... remember athletes are the tiniest percentage of the overall population and self selected ... have a look at the lineup of World's Strongest Men and the predominance of tiny Iceland in contributing to victors ... especially men named Magnusson. Then Olympic Lifting and Powerlifting. You won't find a more physically intimidating bunch ...

Or the Japanese Sumo literally bred for size, although they look fat, they carry only about 20%body fat which is lower than the average adult male ... they sport the most lean muscle mass on the planet ... the tallest average males come from Denmark I believe.

I dunno ... I don't remember avoiding eye contact with anyone ... my dad was athletic representative for his college and we had the basketball players over all the time, they taught me how to shoot and high jump and run and the biggest, tallest scariest of them all was a very white guy who stood 6'8" and was a math major, really nice guy. So I never thought of black athletes as scary at all.

Now a couple of people I have run into have set the hair on the back of my neck on end, one was a scrawny African American who had been diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia and one was a fairly robust (but not what I would call physically superior) Caucasian who I have reason to suspect actually may have been a serial killer ... other than that I kind of liked taking on the big guys - being 5'8 and 225-240 at my peak (I started out as the classic 98 pound weakling, by no means a born athlete), if I could get someone on the ground, it was pretty much over.

Scary people come in all sizes and shapes. It has to do with the way they think.

As to your theory ... you would love Herrnstein and Murray's The Bell Curve

Human Intelligence: The Bell Curve

- but be sure and read what others have said about it ... Stephen J Gould's The Mismeasure of Man is particularly eloquent in rebuttal:

The Mismeasure of Man (Revised & Expanded): Stephen Jay Gould: 9780393314250: Amazon.com: Books


I said more athletically built in general, physical presence isnt the only fear driving factor, sexual jealousy is bang in there aswell.
Its all sub-concious primal instinct imo, theres no educating that out.

Not only is he a threat physically, he is also a threat to your chance of reproduction, even to other blackmen in ali's case.

 
I said more athletically built in general, physical presence isnt the only fear driving factor, sexual jealousy is bang in there aswell.
Its all sub-concious primal instinct imo, theres no educating that out.

sexually jealousy??

define "athletically" built ... I think you may mean aesthetically built but thats in the eye of the beholder, Greek statue of Hercules? Google that one .... there is no general athletic build .... it is sport specific, length of limb, height, etc muscle fiber type - percent recruitment of fibers, etc determine performance ... and for every type of body that excels in a sport ... there is the minority type, for example "Spud Webb" 5'7" in the NBA ...

Maybe a decathlete in terms of all around athleticism ... so are you sexually jealous of Bruce Jenner too? Don't understand that one at all, so maybe there's something wrong with my primal instincts.
 
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