Russia Attacks Georgia, WAR

[CapnG]

That’s right, just sit your fat ass on the sofa and watch some CSI or American Idol or some shite on TV or hey… go to Wal-Mart for some retail therapy… that’ll fix things. You’re my hero.

I'm not fat, I hate those shows and I only go shopping when I need to, so shows what you know. And what are you doing to fix it, Superman? Oh that's right, NOTHING.

And WitchTrials, I'm sorry to hear about your family but that was uncalled for. You people have some seriously poor reading comprehension skills, I said "apart from the usual humanitarian reasons" ie I am concerned for loss of life and property. Ah-duh. I was responding to the situation as it exists POLITICALLY.

 

[Kieran]

My Wife is from Georgia and I am very worried indeed !

We were planning to go there with the Kids but now that is off.

Russia is Bombing areas far away from the conflict zone which is a very unerving precedent !

I hope they dont invade Georgia proper.

Theres a very bleak mood in my Housold at the moment.

The way you phrased your post seemed a little coldhearted Capng, maybe you didnt intentionally set out to achieve that response, but it happened, when family is involved in issues of this type anger can sometimes spill over,if you believe yourself to be a intellectual , i think you can understand why he reacted in that way, no fire and brimstone back at me please just tell me to mind own business.

 

[DBTrek]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/georgia_south_ossetia

DZHAVA, Georgia - Russia sent an armored column into the breakaway enclave of South Ossetia after Georgia, a staunch U.S. ally, launched an offensive to crush separatists. Georgia reported early Saturday that warplanes attacked three of its bases and some key oil facilities.

I think the title of this thread is a bit of an over simplification. It's not as simple as Russia Attacks Georgia! I believe the progression goes something like South Ossetia kicks Georgias ass and declares independence c.1992, Georgia attacks South Ossetia c.2008, Russia repels Georgia from South Ossetia c.2008 and now may just kick Georgia's ass all the way to the Black Sea (hopefully not).

. . . and we should care because we have important oil pipelines in the area, and Georgia was looking at becoming a NATO member. If this thing powder-kegs like the assasination of ArchDuke Ferdinand did back in 1914 it could be bad news for us.

Why these clowns (the Georgians) didn't wait until they were full-fledged NATO members before launching this attack is beyond me. I can't see Russia stopping until Georgia is completely broken . . . they're not going to tolerate a NATO member that close to their border. Bad news all around

 

[dusty]

To Live at the witch trials,

I just want to wish you and yours all the best and I hope everyone is ok.

Thinking of you,

Mark

 

[Kieran]

I think the title of this thread is a bit of an over simplification. It's not as simple as Russia Attacks Georgia! I believe the progression goes something like South Ossetia kicks Georgias ass and declares independence c.1992, Georgia attacks South Ossetia c.2008, Russia repels Georgia from South Ossetia c.2008 and now may just kick Georgia's ass all the way to the Black Sea (hopefully not).

. . . and we should care because we have important oil pipelines in the area, and Georgia was looking at becoming a NATO member. If this thing powder-kegs like the assasination of ArchDuke Ferdinand did back in 1914 it could be bad news for us.

Why these clowns (the Georgians) didn't wait until they were full-fledged NATO members before launching this attack is beyond me. I can't see Russia stopping until Georgia is completely broken . . . they're not going to tolerate a NATO member that close to their border. Bad news all around

The political leadership is basically the same as during the soviet era,it is just covered in the fog of democracy, or so called democracy if that really exists in its truest form in such a country.:question:

 

[Live at the Witch Trials]

I'm not fat, I hate those shows and I only go shopping when I need to, so shows what you know. And what are you doing to fix it, Superman? Oh that's right, NOTHING.

And WitchTrials, I'm sorry to hear about your family but that was uncalled for. You people have some seriously poor reading comprehension skills, I said "apart from the usual humanitarian reasons" ie I am concerned for loss of life and property. Ah-duh. I was responding to the situation as it exists POLITICALLY.

To see events unfolding that are clearly wrong and then say

" I should care about this...why? "

A wrong is a wrong and that is that. If you dont have anything say its sometimes better to say nothing at all.

When Louisiana was hit with catastrophic flooding and lots of people were left without help for a long time it didnt bother me Politically but i still felt for those people.

And if you think that the unfolding events in Georgia will not affect you politically then i say to you that it very much has the potential to do so !

Your either very politically Naive or Stupid, possibly both.

 

[Aaron LeClair]

I just attacked two arby's beef and cheeders. They are quite gud for shit food.

I want Russia to attack the state Georgia. /banjos. The move on to the rest of the USA. Then let Canada invade and save me. Womenz there look better than the 500 pound piece of shits here.

 

[exo_doc]

I just attacked two arby's beef and cheeders. They are quite gud for shit food.

I want Russia to attack the state Georgia. /banjos. The move on to the rest of the USA. Then let Canada invade and save me. Womenz there look better than the 500 pound piece of shits here.

Wow Packrat, send some of that shine this way! You sound very lubed up on some local brew.

 

[CapnG]

You know, I had a long rant written out here about geopolitical stability but in the interest of decency and board decorum I have deleted it. I'll just say this instead:

Witch Trials, I understand this is deeply personal for you and (whether or not you believe it) I really am sorry for that and I do sincerely wish for your famliy and friends to come through this alive and well.

 

[DBTrek]

I just attacked two arby's beef and cheeders. They are quite gud for shit food.

I want Russia to attack the state Georgia. /banjos. The move on to the rest of the USA. Then let Canada invade and save me. Womenz there look better than the 500 pound piece of shits here.

Possibly the best post I've read here this year.

Bartender . . . I'll have two of what he's having.

 

[Live at the Witch Trials]

You know, I had a long rant written out here about geopolitical stability but in the interest of decency and board decorum I have deleted it. I'll just say this instead:

Witch Trials, I understand this is deeply personal for you and (whether or not you believe it) I really am sorry for that and I do sincerely wish for your famliy and friends to come through this alive and well.

Ok

sorry if i seemed a little too Vexatious as you can imagine it's a little stressfull over here.

No hard Feelings.

 

[cottonzway]

Not really. Unless you're looking for an 08-08-08/occult/NWO/WW3 angle I don't see it as any more significant than the Chechnian (sp?) incidents of last decade. After a few weeks of pointless bloodshed and much international finger-wagging I expect we'll all still be here, living life per usual (except for the Georgians, of course).

There was no "NWO" angle to me posting this. Just very important geo-political information. That's just silly.

Also, as for the title, I probably should have worded it differently as I really wasn't trying to assign "blame" to this as much as get this going as an active debate.

 

[Mogwa]

The old Soviet Union was a red fascist police state responsible for slaughtering more people then even the Nazis at the murderous height of their power. Contemporary Russia is just a neo-fascist plutocracy attempting to disguise itself as a nation state.

In order to insure peace on this wretched planet, The Soviet empire, Germany and Eastern Europe should have been divided into many small, weak, independent principalities lacking the economic, political and demographic capabilities to ever offer a credible threat to anyone.

The Second World War never ended; it's still going on. Fascism, fueled by ethic hatred and genocidal tribal warfare, is just as strong a force as it ever was in 1939. The one great difference in the balance of power now compared to then is nature of the the United States, which has degenerated from a democratic republic into a global criminal enterprise. That means all bets are off. The world is an unstable tinder box, and any of those endless regional conflicts people would prefer to ignore might very well prove to be the start of another holocaust. Only this time around, everyone will be a Jew, including you. Nuclear weapons don't make ethnic distinctions.

 

[Kieran]

Russia is useing Georgia in a proxy war against NATO withount ever using force against a country that is in Nato,It is a game that Russia is playing with the America and it allies, Its aims are to make America think long and hard about there policys regarding former russian bloc countries.

 

[DBTrek]

Russia is useing Georgia in a proxy war against NATO withount ever using force against a country that is in Nato,It is a game that Russia is playing with the America and it allies, Its aims are to make America think long and hard about there policys regarding former russian bloc countries.

How exactly do you begin a proxy war against an organization by fighting a non-member? That makes no sense.

More likely, they're hitting it now precisely because it's not NATO a member. If they attack it after it's a NATO member then they declare war on all NATO countries.

 

[cottonzway]

What this boils down to for, not fully knowing the reasons and the whole story this as it unfolds, is this conflict is already a conflict with NATO and the SCO. The KEY thing is for people on all sides to stop it NOW and do whatever is needed to do so in terms of fair deals for both parties to stop it NOW. If it is allowed to continue it likely will start WW III.

 

[ddd999]

Update/ August 10, 2008:

-The Russian claim to have sunk a Georgian warship in the Black Sea.

-Moscow rejected Georgia’s appeal for a ceasefire.

-Russian planes bombed Tbilisi international airport and a military airfield near the capital on Sunday evening.

-US planes have begun flying Georgian troops home from Iraq.

-The Red Cross reports 40,000 people have been displaced from their homes in Russian-Georgian conflict.

-UN Security Council convenes Sunday for third bid to formulate a ceasefire resolution.

...

 

[DBTrek]

The KEY thing is for people on all sides to stop it NOW and do whatever is needed to do so in terms of fair deals for both parties to stop it NOW. If it is allowed to continue it likely will start WW III.

While philosophically I agree with your sentiments about stopping this thing, I disagree that this is likely to start WWIII. I think it's a possibility (which is why I refrenced Archduke Ferdinand in an erlier post), but I would ask you what army you think the US will fight this war with? We're already tied up on two battle fronts, and Russia knows this. We don't have the manpower to spare for a third war, and certainly not one against a real opponent.

I think this is going to end when Russia re-claims Georgia . . . and I don't see anyone militarily in a position to stop them. It would take some mighty tough negotiating at this point.

 

[Live at the Witch Trials]

By Louis Charbonneau <CITE class=auth>Reuters - 1 hour 18 minutes ago</CITE>
UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) -

[qoute]
The United States suggested on Sunday that Russia was interested in "regime change" in Georgia after Moscow rejected Tbilisi's offer of a cease-fire in the separatist enclave of South Ossetia.

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</NOSCRIPT>
Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov told U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice that the president of Georgia Mikheil Saakashvili "must go," the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, Zalmay Khalilzad, told the Security Council.

Khalilzad then looked straight at Russian Ambassador Vitaly Churkin and asked if Moscow was looking for "regime change."
"Is the goal of the Russian Federation to change the leadership of Georgia?" he said.

Churkin did not directly address the question but said there are leaders who "become an obstacle."
"Sometimes those leaders need to contemplate how useful they have become to their people," he told reporters later.

"Regime change is purely an American invention," he said. "We're all for democracy in Georgia."

Russian troops took the capital of South Ossetia earlier after a three-day battle as Georgian forces retreated and the Tbilisi government offered a cease-fire and talks.

In Moscow, Lavrov said the departure of Saakashvili, who was re-elected by popular vote early this year, was not a must to solve the crisis but that Russia no longer saw him as a partner.

Khalilzad told reporters the telephone call between Rice and Lavrov was "disturbing," adding that the days of overthrowing European governments by force were over.

Churkin insisted Russia was not out to take over South Ossetia. "Let's state clearly that we are ready to put an end to the war, that we will withdraw from South Ossetia, that we will sign an agreement on non-use of force," he said.

The U.S. envoy said he would introduce a U.N. resolution condemning Moscow, even though Russia is a permanent council member with the power to veto it. He was meeting later with British, French diplomats and other allies on the council.

The council has been unable to take any action in four emergency meetings on the crisis in as many days due, though the heated exchanges have been reminiscent of the Cold War.

'CAMPAIGN OF TERROR'

Georgian envoy Irakli Alasania told the Security Council that Churkin's comments were all "Soviet propaganda" and said Russia intended to repeat what it did in Chechnya.
Moscow plans to "erase Georgian statehood and exterminate the Georgian people," he said. Churkin in turn accused the Georgians of "genocide" and "ethnic cleansing".

Khalilzad said Russia was waging "terror" in Georgia.
"We must condemn Russia's military assault on the sovereign state of Georgia ... including the targeting of civilians and the campaign of terror against the Georgian population," he said.
Khalilzad also accused Russia of preventing the withdrawal of Georgian forces from South Ossetia to prolong the conflict and prevent Georgia from laying down its arms.
"Since Russia is impeding Georgian forces from withdrawing, rejecting a cease-fire and continuing to carry out military attacks against civilian centres, its claims of a humanitarian purpose clearly are not credible," Khalilzad said.

Churkin was furious that Khalilzad used the word "terror".
"This statement, ambassador, is completely unacceptable, particularly from the lips of the permanent representative of a country whose actions we are aware of, including with regard to the civilian populations in Iraq and Afghanistan and Serbia," Churkin told the council.

Its Abkhazia next.

 

[cottonzway]

While philosophically I agree with your sentiments about stopping this thing, I disagree that this is likely to start WWIII. I think it's a possibility (which is why I refrenced Archduke Ferdinand in an erlier post), but I would ask you what army you think the US will fight this war with? We're already tied up on two battle fronts, and Russia knows this. We don't have the manpower to spare for a third war, and certainly not one against a real opponent.

I think this is going to end when Russia re-claims Georgia . . . and I don't see anyone militarily in a position to stop them. It would take some mighty tough negotiating at this point.

I give my opinion of the potential situation expanding based on my views of the people who are making the decisions on matters of war and foreign policy.

It’s one thing for people to take a “cheap shot” at the current administration, but that doesn’t mean anything. We have to look at the mental state of these people. Not speaking in hyperbole either.

Our foreign policy is being ran by people who suffer from Megalomania. Men like Dick Cheney, Elliot Abrhams, Richard Pearle, John Bolton, and crew are deeply mentally ill individuals. They don’t do things that “make sense” or would speak to your common sense.

I understand the situation in terms of logistics. Many of the people involved at the highest levels of government and the military do see this as well and have strongly been warning us about these people. There is a reason Joint Chiefs of Staff have and will resign over the actions of these lunatics.

There is no way of saying this will lead to WW III right now, unless information is really being suppressed, but we have to recognize who is in control and that they are insane. It is no longer a debate over “failed” policy, but it’s clear the direction these people have went has lead to them being deranged and irrational individuals.

If the US would to engage to start a larger conflict it will be with nuclear weapons along with other weapons that are massive. Up to and including directed energy weapons, bio-weapons, neutron weapons, scalar weapons, space based weapons, satellite weapons, and so on.

None of that would make any sense and it doesn’t to people who aren’t rouge criminals that are fucking psychotic. We are not dealing with people who don’t think in terms of sane people.

Hopefully all of this is averted. I sure as hell do not want this. I am just being honest about those in charge and that is could lead to disastrous decisions that will have a global impact.