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Skeptics...a philosophical discussion

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been a lurker for a long time. love the show but the forums are way out of my league. some posts by macdaddy have given me some courgage to speak up. watch your back mac this place is a lions den. i call them saucer nazis. when ever someone questions their little world beliefs they are shouted down. you don't believe in roswell? your an idiot. you think bentwater was just some light house? your a fool. i know i will be ridiculed for stating this but i don't believe they have a leg to stand on; the saucer nazis i mean. where is the real proof? they have stories. if a military man says a thing, its gospel. i know better i used to be with a military man and he was as loony as a bed bug. keep challenging the nazis macdaddy and others. i will be in the wings cheering.
 
Coming to cinema near you.....................soon!

..."Attack of the Saucer Nazis". Starring MacDaddy, candlegirl and Christopher O'Brien as the evil and erroneous "Trickster"! Watch, kind and gentle posters, as MacDaddy and his sidekick candlegirl battle the nefarious and looney military men under the control of the evil and archetypal "Trickster" (played by the award winning Christopher O'Brien). Be amazed at the climactic showdown as our super sceptical, super duo finally corner the Trickster at the Bentwaters Lighthouse, near Roswell. After the terrible and soul destroying battle only one will walk away. Be shocked, horrified, amazed as the soul survivor of this superhuman battle staggers from the carnage to fall into the loving arms of "The Amazing Randii". This will be the motion picture event for 2010!!! And i for one will be cheering from the wings.
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Frank Stalter said:
You mean the Eddie Kramer who engineered or produced all those Hendrix albums . . . the ones that don't have any backwards guitar on them? The Swan Song and Plant quotes read like non-denial denials. Every turntable I've ever seen or heard of only plays in one direction too. To listen backwards, you have to turn it manually. Plant was the main lyricist and was Mr. Flower Power. I'm sure anything like that wouldn't have been his idea. Of course, Pink Floyd acknowledged that the backwards message on The Wall is there, but that they didn't do it . . . even if the voice does sound an awful lot like Roger Waters. They also say they didn't write Echoes as their own score to the Beyond The Infinite sequence in 2001 . .
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You believe that there is a possibility that there is a deliberate message in the sounds of Stairway to Heaven played backwards? How old are you? Scads of people have done the same thing with other songs. It's just too easy to pick out sounds that seem like words in backwards recordings for there to be anything in it. This has been debunked so long ago that it boggles the mind that anybody still even brings it up. Thanks for a good laugh. The absolute stone cold fact that some songs have deliberate backwards messages does not mean that the Zepp song does. The difference is pretty clear when you listen to examples of the two types. Not to you, maybe, but to most reasonable people. I don't know why it's so important to your Shermer attack anyway. It's just a small part of his talk.

As for Kary Mullis, brilliant guy, but outside of his field he's kind of loopy. He admits taking a buttload of LSD in his time and has written about the time he almost died while huffing nitrous oxide. Seems to think that astrology has some validity too. If I were you I'd mull it over a little bit before making him your poster child for Science Supports Woo.

This board is getting a little more fun lately.
 
crabtown said:
You believe that there is a possibility that there is a deliberate message in the sounds of Stairway to Heaven played backwards? How old are you? Scads of people have done the same thing with other songs. It's just too easy to pick out sounds that seem like words in backwards recordings for there to be anything in it. This has been debunked so long ago that it boggles the mind that anybody still even brings it up. Thanks for a good laugh. The absolute stone cold fact that some songs have deliberate backwards messages does not mean that the Zepp song does. The difference is pretty clear when you listen to examples of the two types. Not to you, maybe, but to most reasonable people. I don't know why it's so important to your Shermer attack anyway. It's just a small part of his talk.

As for Kary Mullis, brilliant guy, but outside of his field he's kind of loopy. He admits taking a buttload of LSD in his time and has written about the time he almost died while huffing nitrous oxide. Seems to think that astrology has some validity too. If I were you I'd mull it over a little bit before making him your poster child for Science Supports Woo.

This board is getting a little more fun lately.
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Cutting through the snide remarks, I've bolded the key point in my pointing out Shermer's intellectual dishonesty which, not surprisingly, you got backwards. Because people want to hear what they want to hear in STH doesn't prove that backwards messaging doesn't happen. Shermer's argument is obviously that it does, just like his fake UFO photograph proves that there is nothing to the UFO phenomenon.
 
Frank Stalter said:
Cutting through the snide remarks, I've bolded the key point in my pointing out Shermer's intellectual dishonesty which, not surprisingly, you got backwards. Because people want to hear what they want to hear in STH doesn't prove that backwards messaging doesn't happen. Shermer's argument is obviously that it does, just like his fake UFO photograph proves that there is nothing to the UFO phenomenon.
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Bravo. 1st off, what puzzles me is the subject of the perceived backward masked message "here's to my" sweet satan. But 2nd, I've been involved in audio/music production for over 30 years and it sounds like coincidental pareidolia to me. And I have been a HUGE ZEP/Page fan since '69, so it would be kinda cool if it was premeditated. Sadly, knowing a bit about the supposed writing and recording process around the album (quiz me), I highly doubt that JP/RP/EC/or the ghost of AC had the time or the where with all to pull it off. :) But isn't it ironic that the very subject of "the message" perceived by the alarmists, is that of a marginalized trickster form. I know
... there he goes again...





But its lonely at the bottom...
 
A Slayer song backwards recites the 'Lord's Prayer'. ;)
Everytime I hear about backmasking I'm reminded of some campy 80ties horror movie (featured Ozzy in some sort, title of the flick would be greatly appreciated). Pareidolia it is, at least for bands up to the 90ties.
Seems like a gimmick these days, only read about bands I don't listen to, using it .
 
MacDaddy said:
Simple question: do you believe that the Led Zepplin example shown in the video was purposefully planted by the band or anyone else?
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It's obviously a precognitive message from the future dead Led Zeppelin members via reversed EVP, for the sole purpose screwing with their own heads.
 
CandleGirl said:
i call them saucer nazis. when ever someone questions their little world beliefs they are shouted down. you don't believe in roswell? your an idiot. you think bentwater was just some light house? your a fool.
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Is that a fair assessment? I don't know. I think this forum is a bit more balanced than some others that bat these subjects around. Certainly, some folks have strong opinions that post here, but I think that is to be expected given the territory don't you? I think the problem comes when we stop talking about the issues and ideas and start talking about personalities and people.

One of the great challenges that Ufology faces is coming up with truly falsifiable/testable hypotheses for UFO and surrounding phenomena. That just doesn't mean the proponents of the ETH either. It also means the proponents of the Null Hypothesis need to pony up just as much as anyone else.

CandleGirl said:
...if a military man says a thing, its gospel.
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I think there is every reason to think otherwise where the subject of UFOs is concerned. Oaths, regulations, and the willingness to conform to a given story in the interest of national security being what they are, "the truth" can be irrelevant. I think this goes double for anyone in the intelligence community where the problem of discerning assets from handlers makes things even more murky.
 
Angel of Ioren said:
Next up in musical mysteries: What the hell is Revolution 9?
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I can answer that one... I read an obscure but excellent book called The Unknown Paul MacCartney and it's about his mid '60s flirtation with psychedelics and the avant-garde. John Lennon was impressed by Macca's audio experiments he had recorded in his small attic studio while living at the Ashers, and by Paul's fascination w/ Varese, Stockhausen, Harry Partch, Cage and others. Most people think that it was Lennon who came up with all the arty backwards sounds and weird random tape cut-ups and re-splicing they used '66 to '69, but it was actually Macca. Lennon felt left out and Yoko inspired him to get tripped out and pretentious the result was the organized sonic mishmash he named Revolution 9. Also, George Harrison (who also led the way utilizing early electronic keyboard/synthesizers) help select tape loops for the piece.
 
Christopher O'Brien said:
I can answer that one... I read an obscure but excellent book called The Unknown Paul MacCartney and it's about his mid '60s flirtation with psychedelics and the avant-garde. John Lennon was impressed by Macca's audio experiments he had recorded in his small attic studio while living at the Ashers, and by Paul's fascination w/ Varese, Stockhausen, Harry Partch, Cage and others. Most people think that it was Lennon who came up with all the arty backwards sounds and weird random tape cut-ups and re-splicing they used '66 to '69, but it was actually Macca. Lennon felt left out and Yoko inspired him to get tripped out and pretentious the result was the organized sonic mishmash he named Revolution 9. Also, George Harrison (who also led the way utilizing early electronic keyboard/synthesizers) help select tape loops for the piece.
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Thanks - great info. I didn't know that. One of my favorite Beatles sound techniques was what the did for "Being for the Benefit of Mr. Kite." They took a whole bunch of tape of sounds, cut it up, threw it to the ground, and spliced it all together every which way.
 
Angel of Ioren said:
Thanks - great info. I didn't know that. One of my favorite Beatles sound techniques was what the did for "Being for the Benefit of Mr. Kite." They took a whole bunch of tape of sounds, cut it up, threw it to the ground, and spliced it all together every which way.
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Yeah, it was a recording of a circus calliope. I seem to recall that the first time they recorded something completely off the wall was the weird bird-like screeching sounds and backwards drums and guitar on Rubber Soul's Tomorrow Never Knows, which today, 45 years later, still sounds ahead of its time. Oh course the song idea was inspired by their first trip into psychedelio-land.
 
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