Sunday, November 25th Paracast W/ Richard Dolan

[Chuckleberryfinn]

My only problem with Dolan has to do with his continued discussion of various high level military people who privately talk to him, insisting on anonymity. I don't like this kind of thing. Shouldn't it be apparent to UFO researchers that the military loves feeding them disinformation? Haven't we learned our lesson from poor Paul Bennewitz? These bastards cannot be trusted.

Still, I enjoyed the episode. The hosts and Dolan all delivered a top quality discussion.

 

[Pete]

Apropos of the latest, and always interesting interview with Rich Dolan, this item on MSN Money caught my eye. It bears implicitly on the discussion of black budget funding, and explicitly on breathtakingly vast federal budgetary malfeasance, and I guess I was a little surprised to see it called out for what it is quite so publicly. It'll be interesting to see if it gets any more traction in the mainstream media. Definitely worth a look:
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/News/FedsBudgetTricksHideTrillionsInDebt.aspx

 

[Verum]

Pete wrote..

It bears implicitly on the discussion of black budget funding, and explicitly on breathtakingly vast federal budgetary malfeasance, and I guess I was a little surprised to see it called out for what it is quite so publicly.

What am I missing? The article draws on public data, and addresses accounting methodologies for entitlement programs. What does any of this have to do with "black budget funding" and "malfeasance"? It's simple accounting, and there's nothing secret or nefarious about it. The whole point is that they're using legitimate data--even though "unfavorable data" is, nonetheless, publicly available, that best suits their own objectives...same as every bureaucracy, business and individual since time immemorial. IT'S THE GOVERNMENT! It's more about perception than it is about deception!

 

[musictomyears]

I wonder who this "Verum" character is. He always butts in and breathlessly defends government actions, regardless of how deceitful they appear to be.

Hey Verum, give it break. It's getting boring.

 

[David Biedny]

I wonder who this "Verum" character is. He always butts in and breathlessly defends government actions, regardless of how deceitful they appear to be.

Hey Verum, give it break. It's getting boring.

It takes all types to make up a forum...

Verum appears to be a Republicon, please correct me if I'm wrong, Verum.

Republicons believe that the government cares about them, as well as other assorted tales, such as the Easter Bunny and Santy Claws.

 

[The Hawk]

My only problem with Dolan has to do with his continued discussion of various high level military people who privately talk to him, insisting on anonymity. I don't like this kind of thing. Shouldn't it be apparent to UFO researchers that the military loves feeding them disinformation? Haven't we learned our lesson from poor Paul Bennewitz? These bastards cannot be trusted.

So.. I haven't heard Dolan present any information from "insiders" that if false would be much of a issue and he doesn't present it as fact anyways.

 

[tommyball]

My only problem with Dolan has to do with his continued discussion of various high level military people who privately talk to him, insisting on anonymity. I don't like this kind of thing. Shouldn't it be apparent to UFO researchers that the military loves feeding them disinformation? Haven't we learned our lesson from poor Paul Bennewitz? These bastards cannot be trusted.

Still, I enjoyed the episode. The hosts and Dolan all delivered a top quality discussion.

I can understand what you're saying. After Dolan's lecture at the X-Conference in September, I began to wonder about these insiders and whether or not it was a disinformation issue.

In the end I think that I have to trust Dolan though. I'm in the middle of reading his first book and have a great deal of respect for the work and research that he put into it. It speaks for itself. Much of his X-Conference lecture (and the last episode) is based on his work in progress second volume which I'm sure maintains the level of research and integrity established in the first volume.

Now Dolan has mentioned the dilemma of off-the-record insiders. It will be interesting to see how this shapes his book. Along side that, I wonder if or how he will address ufology itself in the last few decades or so with Bennewitz, like you mentioned, Doty, Moulton Howe, etc..

-todd.

 

[Chuckleberryfinn]

Hawk and Tommyball:

You both make good points. Surely Dolan is smart enough to discern disinfo from good information. I don't mean to sound so negative about him. I own (and love) his book and think highly of his work.

Still, sometimes it doesn't matter how smart you are. If those bastards come at you with psychological warfare, farewell the tranquil mind, farewell content, and farewell discernment.

 

[Miah]

Since the episode was (as I understand it) supposed to be concentrated on what could be done to 'fix' the UFO field, it seemed to do little in finding answers or setting objectives for doing so.

Disclosure would be great, but I would be happy with proof of alien visitation personally.

Perhaps what ATS has going on here will inspire a bit?
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread318111/pg1&addstar=1&on=3752300

 

[Aaron LeClair]

As Ron White says, You can't fix stupid. I don't think one can "fix" ufology. Just stick to doing good work yourself. That's the only thing you can do really. There will always be fools coming and going.

 

[DBTrek]

I wonder who this "Verum" character is. He always butts in and breathlessly defends government actions, regardless of how deceitful they appear to be.

Hey Verum, give it break. It's getting boring.

It takes all types to make up a forum...

Verum appears to be a Republicon, please correct me if I'm wrong, Verum.

Republicons believe that the government cares about them, as well as other assorted tales, such as the Easter Bunny and Santy Claws.

I think you're both giving him a bad deal. The guy asked what the article had to do with 'black budgets', and if either of you bother reading the article you'll see he made a valid point. It's not an article about the government adding secret programs to US spending and then fudging the paperwork, it's about both political parties using accounting tricks to give the public the most appealing figures while their 'other' numbers tell a more dire story.

I think this is the achillies heels of the Paracast; the urge to demonize people based on politics is stronger than the desire to simply have a level-headed discussion.

Forum Dude 1: "Look at this article! It proves the government is increasing black budget spending!!!"

Forum Noob: "No, it doesn't say that at all. It says numbers are being manipulated in order to make both parties look better than they deserve."

Forum Dude 2: "I don't know who Forum Noob is, but he's obviously a shill for the government (on account of he has reading comprehension skills!)"

Host: "Yeah, he's obviously a Repiblicon! They're always salivating for a chance to go down on THE MAN."

Jesus . . . you guys think you're taking this program to radio?

I'm thinking not.

-DBTrek

 

[Astroboy]

I agree with DBTrek.

It is refreshing to hear a more skeptical view on a regular basis. I detest group mentality.

I'm neither Republican nor Democrat. The only difference between them is that Republicans are more skillful liars. This doesn't make me paranoid of all things government either.

We should welcome Verum's comments. He is bringing some much needed counterpoint to the "everything is a conspiracy crowd" much as Paul Kimball and Richard Dolan do.

I am rather surprised and disappointed at David's attitude toward Verum. This is suppose to be a discussion forum not a KoolAid party where everyone drinks from the same ideological keg.

 

[Aaron LeClair]

I wonder who this "Verum" character is. He always butts in and breathlessly defends government actions, regardless of how deceitful they appear to be.

Hey Verum, give it break. It's getting boring.

It takes all types to make up a forum...

Verum appears to be a Republicon, please correct me if I'm wrong, Verum.

Republicons believe that the government cares about them, as well as other assorted tales, such as the Easter Bunny and Santy Claws.

I think you're both giving him a bad deal. The guy asked what the article had to do with 'black budgets', and if either of you bother reading the article you'll see he made a valid point. It's not an article about the government adding secret programs to US spending and then fudging the paperwork, it's about both political parties using accounting tricks to give the public the most appealing figures while their 'other' numbers tell a more dire story.

I think this is the achillies heels of the Paracast; the urge to demonize people based on politics is stronger than the desire to simply have a level-headed discussion.

Forum Dude 1: "Look at this article! It proves the government is increasing black budget spending!!!"

Forum Noob: "No, it doesn't say that at all. It says numbers are being manipulated in order to make both parties look better than they deserve."

Forum Dude 2: "I don't know who Forum Noob is, but he's obviously a shill for the government (on account of he has reading comprehension skills!)"

Host: "Yeah, he's obviously a Repiblicon! They're always salivating for a chance to go down on THE MAN."

Jesus . . . you guys think you're taking this program to radio?

I'm thinking not.

-DBTrek

As if Limbutt, Dr Laura, Fart Hell or O Really is any better. The Paracast needs to dumb down, then they'll have a shot at radio.

 

[Brian Now]

Jesus . . . you guys think you're taking this program to radio?

I'm thinking not.

-DBTrek

They're already on radio in Nevada aren't they? Do you mean there's talk of spreading to more stations?

 

[DBTrek]

They're already on radio in Nevada aren't they?

If they are, then they're on equal footing with every college DJ in the nation (who are also on one station).

Do you mean there's talk of spreading to more stations?

Yes, if you look at the very first thread on this page.
http://theparacast.com/forums/help-put-the-paracast-on-your-radio-dial-t-1349.html

I wish them luck, they both put a lot of work and time in to this program. However, if they think there is a large "Every problem on Earth comes from soulless Republicans" demographic listening to AM radio I think they're in for a rude awakening.

... and no, I'm not a republican. I'm pragmatic enough to realize who listens to AM radio.

 

[valiens]

Dolan is wondering if Greer wasn't compromised along the way because he sounded nuts at the X-Conference this year, but listening now to your interview with Greer from October, 2006, it's clear he was already "nuts." I'd say "pathological liar," actually.

What's truly sad is that neither of you read his book before he came on the show because if you had, you'd have immediately called him on just about everything. That's not a snipe at you because A.) You can't read everything and B.) You probably figured it was another book about disclosure and not about Greer's own "alien" contact.

But if you had, imagine what you'd have said when Greer flapped his gums about abductions and crazy-sounding stories being the thing he wanted to stay away from for fear of contaminating the disclosure movement with lunacy.

He quips about crazy people who claim to have alien babies. Imagine him making that joke after the X-Conference where he said he held an alien baby. Imagine him having said that and you, having read the book could have chimed in with, "But...uuuuh...you befriended aliens didn't you? So what's the dif?"

But where it all came together for me in terms of feeling confident that it's not all a work but a pathological issue, is in this tiny little bit of a slip-up:

He's telling you that he was chatting with one of Clinton's friends in 1994. The friend told him, "Dr. Greer..." And then tells him how the president would love to disclose the truth but is afraid of assassination.

To which Greer replied, "Kevin, you're serious?"

What does this tell us? It tells us that one of the president's close political friends, and probably advisers, is beneath Greer. He refers to Greer formally and Greer refers to him by first name. Wow, what a power move for such a young man from a small town totally out of his element in 1994.

NEVER HAPPENED.

Greer is a self-aggrandizing liar. Why does he do it? Ask a psychologist, not the CIA. He wasn't compromised in recent months, he was compromised in childhood.

EDIT - When he says things like, "That's a fact and I have the documents here that you can look at...."

Does anyone ever say, "Cool. Send me the documents. I'd like to look at them."

If so, what happens?

 

[Aaron LeClair]

Does anyone ever say, "Cool. Send me the documents. I'd like to look at them."

If so, what happens?

He sends some paper with squished bugs blocking out most of what's written.

 

[Verum]

David wrote...

It takes all types to make up a forum...

Verum appears to be a Republicon, please correct me if I'm wrong, Verum.

Republicons believe that the government cares about them, as well as other assorted tales, such as the Easter Bunny and Santy Claws.

Well, I'll start by saying I'm not a namecalling 10 year old so I won't respond in kind.

I ceratinly tend to vote Republican. Of course as a young man growing up on the "mean streets" in Jersey I was also a chapter director of the War Resisters League, a conscientious objector (I-O...not I-A, for those of you who were engaged in the Vietnam draft process), a dedicated volunteer and something of an activist. Like most people as I grew older I grew up, and saw some very unpleasant realities that led me to different conclusions. What I definitely am not is a Republican who believes "the government cares about them". In fact if you've actually read what I've posted you would know that I believe the government is a remarkably inept and intrusive institution. I have dealt with the government in an upclose and personal manner. And it's pretty clear that it's populated by people who couldn't find their ass with both hands. The notion that it's some secretive cabal of super-intellects, quietly plotting to control us, is absurd. Even if it wanted to it hasn't got the horses to pull it off.

Of course, the issue at hand is how conspiracists are so in lockstep with a single premise--that EVERYTHING is controlled and controllable by devious forces who incessantly plot against mankind. I find people like you, David, and some of the conspracists here, more humorous than informative or enlightening. It's all bluster and rhetoric and no evidence. And there's a strong undercurrent of envy in it all.

I have a serious set of core values and beliefs that I try to practice every day. One of those is that I try and respect divergent opinions and practices. On the other hand, David, you frequently come across as one of the most disrespecful, intolerant and arrogant people I've ever heard, and you seem to revel in it like it's some badge of courage to spew intolerance of other beliefs. I will very readily express my opinion but I try and avoid being personally disrespectful. It has always struck me as odd that self-professed proponents of free speech and "freedom" are the first to engage in ad hominem attacks and juvenile responses. Exactly what are you guys afraid of? That the bizarre reality you've concocted as a mechanism for self-worth is as flimsy as the evidence upon which you've built it?

And, the most important point to convey, again, is that REAL Republicans never believe that the government "cares about them". They believe the government is a necessary evil, to be minimized, contained and restricted, not viewed as a source of income redistribution and social engineering. But if my having a contrary opinon to you and Musictomyears causes you to revert to the kiddy behavior you've both exhibited I have no issue with not contributing here. That's the real objective of your ilk, I suppose, to build a world in which YOUR view is not only the dominant one but the ONLY one.

 

[David Biedny]

As far as my attitude towards Verum, I suppose it came from a post in the thread regarding my blog, where he/she made a comment that they would not want to read it if it contained the same type of political tone that I displayed on the show. I told him it would, and he thanked me for warning him. Perhaps I'm wrong to immediately dub this person a Republican, if it's incorrect, well, then I formally apologize. If, on the other hand, this person is actually a Republican, then I stand behind my statement. I'm not exactly what one would call a Democrat, I'm of the mind that the two parties of two sides of the same coin. That said, I feel that anyone who supports the majority of Repub policies and beliefs is something less than human. I know that's harsh, but these are people that, like Ann Coulter, would put "liberals" to death, and who have no problems killing women and children to further their commercial and political agendas. Sorry, I'm not down with that nightmare.

The right wingers of this country can say anything they want, and not be held accountable, but those of us on the "left" respond or voice our own opinions, but somehow we're the evil ones? Not a chance, folks. In the current political climate, there are some of us who have no problem expressing our hatred of fascists.

 

[David Biedny]

Verum,

I just saw your post, moments after I put up mine.

Thanks for confirming that you've voted Republican. It tells me what I need to know.

Yes, I'm arrogant, mindless, brutal, thoughtless and childish. And I feel that the Republican party is the greatest disease this country has dealt with in the past 40 years. I've been outed.

And I LOVE how you've decided to judge me. Pot calling the kettle black? Perhaps. Unlike you, I personally do NOT feel that ALL points of view and philosophical systems deserve respect. I was broght up to think that respect must be earned, go figga. And as far as political correctness goes, well, it's pretty obvious that I do not prescribe to this idealogy. I will not apologize for this, even if I should.

You know exactly how I feel, you know everything about me, based on what you've heard on The Paracast and read on these forums. Yesiree, I'm a liberal conspiracy monger and bully. Sure, I feel that George Bush himself toppled the Trade Center towers with his middle finger. Cheney is having dinner with Bin Laden as I type these words. Reagan should be granted sainthood, and the Iraq Occupation is making us safe.

Verum, you know very little about me and my beliefs. Let's agree to disagree, and leave it at that. If you want to contribute here, I'll leave you be, if not, I'll leave you be. This country is headed towards some new form of civil war, sadly but certainly. There are those who stand behind the Repubs and Demos, and then there's the rest of us.

Meanwhile, I'm very sorry to have taken this thread to the place of political nightmares. It's supposed to be about the excellent episode with Dolan.