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Sunday, November 25th Paracast W/ Richard Dolan

Free episodes:

Oh, my. This is the most mileage I've seen yet in a thread I started.

Verum, you wrote:

"Well, I'll start by saying I'm not a namecalling 10 year old so I won't respond in kind."

Surely this was irony, yes? Calling D.Biedny a namecalling 10 year old and then saying you wont call names? That's great comedy, Verum! Keep it up!

I'm getting all of my relatives a copy of Dolan's book for Christmas. And, what's more, I made it in audiobook format. Included in the book is a burned CD featuring the paracast/Dolan interviews, the CoasttoCoast interview with Dolan and George Knapp, and a few others. I hope this doesn't make me a fanatic.
 
David Biedny said:
The right wingers of this country can say anything they want, and not be held accountable, but those of us on the "left" respond or voice our own opinions, but somehow we're the evil ones?

???

Right wingers are never criticised in this country?

Send me some of that hash, man. :D

Both parties demonize eachother 24/7. Both parties act like they've been victimized when called on it.

Right Winger: The liberal media never gives us fair coverage.
Left Winger: FOX News is nazi right wing media and needs to be banned!
Right Winger: This is all Clinton's fault!
Left Winger: This is all Bush's fault!
Right Winger: Lefties want to steer us in to nanny-state socialism and thereby strip our rights!
Left Winger: Righties want to impose a facist theocracy on us all!

Jeez . . . it's all these people do all day. Republicans suck, and so do democrats. By picking one side and repeating their same old tired jargon you effectively function as their tool, and hence become part of the problem, not the solution.

This idea that 'liberals' never get to criticize anyone is laughable, especially while 2/3rds of the country is ripping on Bush/Cheney on a daily basis (and rightfully so).

I fail to see how DB can make an intelligent statement like "We're living in Corporate Fuedalism", or "Both parties are different sides of the same coin", but then fall back to blaming everything on republicans and right wingers.

Which is it? Are they both in cahoots and cooperatively screwing the people, or is it just the evil republicans?

. . . same with the Dolan interview. It was mostly reasonable and insightful. Dolan would say "This consolidation of power and information began long before Bush" . . . but within five minutes it's a conversation about how republicans are responsible for all the world's ills. Throw in some criticism of Paul Kimball because he won't define facism as Bush's presidency (even though Dolan goes on to admit that he doesn't really know how define facism anyway).

Anyway, I'm a fan of the show obviously, and that's my honest criticism. You guys are ambushing yourselves with the partisan BS. I fail to see the point in handicapping your chances at succeeding in the marketplace over such a trifling thing. Is it that important, in this paranormal show, to mention that you blame republicans for today's problems? Is it worth alienating a large group of people that might otherwise support your efforts. Is it somehow "selling-out" if the show focuses on paranormal issues and not on whose to blame for today's headlines?

Much success to Gene and Dave either way . . . I'm just saying that if I put in the monumental effort they put in to each show, I'd darn well be trying to reap the biggest rewards I could for my efforts . . . even if I didn't get to regularly take slaps at my political enemies.
 
David Biedny said:
The right wingers of this country can say anything they want, and not be held accountable, but those of us on the "left" respond or voice our own opinions, but somehow we're the evil ones?


Funniest thing I've read all week.
 
Bollocks.

Left - Right - Democrats - Republicans... Give me a break.

It is all down to opinion. If political issues were a mere collection of facts, we wouldn't have political discussions at all. We *all* interpret the world around us as good as we can, and we *all* get it wrong, occasionally.

Verum, I am pleased to hear that you are/have been a conscientious objector. Good on you. I'm glad you told us about it.

So, if I may ask, how do you square the fact that you are obviously used to thinking for yourself, and that you object to state sponsored violence, with this blanked defence in your earlier post:

"The whole point is that they're using legitimate data--even though "unfavorable data" is, nonetheless, publicly available, that best suits their own objectives...same as every bureaucracy, business and individual since time immemorial. IT'S THE GOVERNMENT!"

Perhaps you are not aware of it, but in this post you came across as someone who defends governmental accounting tricks on an epic scale. Trillion dollar budget deficits are no laughing matter, and trying to hide them is criminal.

Also, I must take issue with the following statement:

"The notion that it's (the government) some secretive cabal of super-intellects, quietly plotting to control us, is absurd."

What exactly are you saying? That specifically the US government is incapable of plotting against the public, or that this applies to all governments around the world? If the latter, then clearly you have forgotten your history lessons. Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Franco, Pinochet, Saddam Hussein all plotted against their respective citizenry, and enjoyed the support of the financial elite, for otherwise they wouldn't have been able to finance their empires.

And the US government? Telling the citizens and armed forces that Saddam was amassing stockpiles of WMDs and that he had played a role in 9/11, whilst knowing that none of that was true, does not constitute a government-led conspiracy? Who benefits from this distortion of demonstrable fact? The military-industrial complex. Dick Cheney's buddies. Could it be any more obvious?

No, we are not dealing with a "secretive cabal of super-intellects". We are dealing with a bunch of vicious crooks that will stop at nothing.

One last thing: If you don't like name-calling - and I certainly wouldn't blame you - you should lead by example.
 
Musictomyears wrote...
Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Franco, Pinochet, Saddam Hussein all plotted against their respective citizenry, and enjoyed the support of the financial elite, for otherwise they wouldn't have been able to finance their empires.
There was nothing secretive about the manner in which any of these men came to power, and they were hardly engaged in a decades-long plot to subvert the citizenry. They came to power through "populist" movements for the most part. And if you believe they came with the support of "the financial elite" maybe you need to talk to some of the very successful Jews who were financially destroyed and physically brutalized by at least 3 of these dictators. Most relevant not a single one of them operated under our Constitution, with its checks and balances and a long tradition of self-reliance. America has NEVER been a feudal or despotic nation and its people have neither the tolerance nor the willingness to be subjugated, or to allow fellow citizens to be subjugated, for purposes of personal advancement. Each of these men came to power because of a populace all-to-ready to sacrifice freedoms for safety, security or economic benefit (or, at least, the promise of those_.

As to your contention that I engage in name-calling, if I did I apologize but I don't recall ever having done that. At least it's not a matter of my innate reaction to every argument as it is for some people, including at least one host of a podcast we all know and love (the podcast, not the host!)
 
David wrote..
Yes, I'm arrogant, mindless, brutal, thoughtless and childish. And I feel that the Republican party is the greatest disease this country has dealt with in the past 40 years. I've been outed.

And I LOVE how you've decided to judge me.
I'm sorry! I must have missed where I called you mindless, brutal and thoughtless. Of course I didn't but that seems to be the modus operandi...if the facts don't work, make them up! Good job! However, I will admit to feeling you're arrogant and childish. And the rest of your post about the coming civil war only reinforces that. You certainly didn't need to be "outed" by yourself. Your silly outbursts against everything from religion to our government stand in brilliant, albeit kneejerky, testament to what you believe.

What surprises me is just how thin skinned you seem to be for someone so ready to not only dish it out but pat himself on the back for having done so. I think your philosophy, politics and rhetoric are are bizarre, dogmatic, intolerant and juvenile. And I think mine aren't.
 
Verum said:
Musictomyears wrote...
Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Franco, Pinochet, Saddam Hussein all plotted against their respective citizenry, and enjoyed the support of the financial elite, for otherwise they wouldn't have been able to finance their empires.
There was nothing secretive about the manner in which any of these men came to power, and they were hardly engaged in a decades-long plot to subvert the citizenry. They came to power through "populist" movements for the most part.
...
America has NEVER been a feudal or despotic nation and its people have neither the tolerance nor the willingness to be subjugated, or to allow fellow citizens to be subjugated, for purposes of personal advancement. Each of these men came to power because of a populace all-to-ready to sacrifice freedoms for safety, security or economic benefit (or, at least, the promise of those_.
...

"they were hardly engaged in a decades-long plot to subvert the citizenry"

What??? Do you think Hitler, for example, rose to power overnight? It took him decades of planning, failed coup attempts, and the writing - during imprisonment - of an infamous book to become the head of state. BTW, he was democratically elected - fair and square.

Right-wing, born-again, fake Christianity is not a populist movement? "If you are nor for us, you are against us". Where have I heard this before, hmmm???

You say that America's "people have neither the tolerance nor the willingness to be subjugated, or to allow fellow citizens to be subjugated, for purposes of personal advancement."

Good. I am glad to hear that. That means you too don't want to "sacrifice freedoms for safety". I sure hope your government agrees with you.
 
Musictomyears wrote
So, if I may ask, how do you square the fact that you are obviously used to thinking for yourself, and that you object to state sponsored violence, with this blanked defence in your earlier post:

"The whole point is that they're using legitimate data--even though "unfavorable data" is, nonetheless, publicly available, that best suits their own objectives...same as every bureaucracy, business and individual since time immemorial. IT'S THE GOVERNMENT!"
First, the article in question had nothing whatsoever to do with "state-sponsored violence". It had to do with the accounting methodologies employed by the federal government. The rest of my post dealt with these facts, as stated in that article...

the contrary data is public, not secret;

the issue related to which of the acceptable accounting methods were utilized; and

that the government, as it has always done, chose to use the methods which best meet its own objectives. And you conveniently chose to delete the last few pieces of my post which made that point quite clearly, I think, when I wrote...It's more about perception than it is about deception!

The entire point of my posting was that the government uses "spin", always has, always will, just as corporations and individuals have done since the introduction of mass communications. But spin is vastly different from secrecy. In this instance another viewpoint was not only openly available but it was openly examined in the posted article from a mainstream press source. Accounting is both a science and an art, and accounting conventions have always been a subject of debate and interpretation. There are many areas of accounting rules, both private and governmental, that permit latitude in how items are treated.

In any event, how you managed to read my comments as being a defense of "state-sponsored violence" is beyond me.

By the way, I notice you use the "alternative" spelling of the word "defence". Can I imply from that that you're not an American, or at least were not raised here? Just curious, no ulterior motive or other interest in the question.
 
Musictomyears wrote..
What??? Do you think Hitler, for example, rose to power overnight? It took him decades of planning, failed coup attempts, and the writing - during imprisonment - of an infamous book to become the head of state. BTW, he was democratically elected - fair and square.
Hitler was above board, open and hostile in his rise to power. He enrolled a populace reeling from the after-effects of its first war. He did not come to power in a sub rosa manner by any stretch of the imagination. He was public and delivered precisely what he promised. Even you mention Mein Kampf. It is most frequently willing people who deliver dictators to power. My point is that the American people have no such predisposition for that, and it is almost inconceivable to anyone with any degree of faith in the integrity of the American citizenry to imagine our people giving sway to a dictator. There IS such a thing as American character and it is different from most others.

As to even suggesting that I would sacrifice freedoms for safety is another of your leaps. Every American school child knows, and most of us believe it strongly, the words that go back to the mid-18th century (and sometimes attributed to Benjamin Franklin)...

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety
 
Verum said:
Musictomyears wrote
So, if I may ask, how do you square the fact that you are obviously used to thinking for yourself, and that you object to state sponsored violence, with this blanked defence in your earlier post:

"The whole point is that they're using legitimate data--even though "unfavorable data" is, nonetheless, publicly available, that best suits their own objectives...same as every bureaucracy, business and individual since time immemorial. IT'S THE GOVERNMENT!"
First, the article in question had nothing whatsoever to do with "state-sponsored violence". It had to do with the accounting methodologies employed by the federal government. The rest of my post dealt with these facts, as stated in that article...

the contrary data is public, not secret;

the issue related to which of the acceptable accounting methods were utilized; and

that the government, as it has always done, chose to use the methods which best meet its own objectives. And you conveniently chose to delete the last few pieces of my post which made that point quite clearly, I think, when I wrote...It's more about perception than it is about deception!

The entire point of my posting was that the government uses "spin", always has, always will, just as corporations and individuals have done since the introduction of mass communications. But spin is vastly different from secrecy. In this instance another viewpoint was not only openly available but it was openly examined in the posted article from a mainstream press source. Accounting is both a science and an art, and accounting conventions have always been a subject of debate and interpretation. There are many areas of accounting rules, both private and governmental, that permit latitude in how items are treated.

In any event, how you managed to read my comments as being a defense of "state-sponsored violence" is beyond me.

By the way, I notice you use the "alternative" spelling of the word "defence". Can I imply from that that you're not an American, or at least were not raised here? Just curious, no ulterior motive or other interest in the question.

Huh? I did not read your "comments as being a defense of "state-sponsored violence". Not at all. I read them as being in defence of state-sponsored accounting tricks, that serve the purpose of deceiving the public. You call that "spin". I call that lying, deceiving, and manipulating.

And you are right, I'm not American.
 
Chuckleberryfinn said:
I'm getting all of my relatives a copy of Dolan's book for Christmas. And, what's more, I made it in audiobook format. Included in the book is a burned CD featuring the paracast/Dolan interviews, the CoasttoCoast interview with Dolan and George Knapp, and a few others. I hope this doesn't make me a fanatic.

Awesome gift idea. That's what I would do if I thought for a minute that any of my relatives might even glance inside the book at all.

I think some sort of revised and illustrated version of Dolan's book would be more accessible to the general public. Something similar to the illustrated version of Hawking's "A Brief History of Time"

-todd.
 
Musictomyears wrote...
I read them as being in defence of state-sponsored accounting tricks, that serve the purpose of deceiving the public. You call that "spin". I call that lying, deceiving, and manipulating.

And you are right, I'm not American.
I have been in business for many years, and I have a layman's understanding of accounting and how it works. These aren't subtle tricks, lies, deceit or manipulation. They are the result of years of debate, open dialogue and considered conclusion by experts, by various independent (NOT governmental) organizations. There are thousands of people who interpret these accounting rules, as applicable to particular circumstances. These are not always black-and-white issues.

I hesitate to continue further, but I'll try again to explain my position in more detail, focusing on just this original issue of accounting conventions.

So, let me give you a little example of how this works. For decades the accounting profession held that postemployment liabilities, like retiree medical, were a current expense and didn't need to be accrued over the working life of the employee. Since Medicare assumed most of an individual's medical costs after age 65 the actual, supplemental cost was manageable and became almost a throwaway benefit by American business. Then the profession--NOT the government--decided those costs needed to be accounted for during the employee's entire working life, as if they were pension benefits. Even though costs didn't change, the impact on American business was enormous and impacted balance sheets almost to the point of disaster. So the accountants said it had to be reported as if it were being funded over many years. But Congress never actually permitted corporations to do so with the same tax advantaged benefits which gave rise to corporate pension plans. And thus began businesses cutbacks on retiree medical. EXCEPT for the government. Because they live by different rules, and didn't need to account for its enormous postemployment liabilities in the same manner as corporate America did. And that enabled the runaway entitlement mentality within our government to continue unabated.

So, what's the implication? In New Jersey, we've reported postemployment liabilities of, as I recall, about $25 BILLION. Now there's been an accounting change that will require reporting similar to corporate reporting and that will require full disclosure of the REAL unfunded cost, which is about $115 Billion. And that means our financial solvency is impacted and so is our debt rating and our ability to borrow efficiently. As the most taxed people in America, we're staring down the barrel of catastrophe, and our Governor continues to ignore the issue and kowtow to the unions which ensure his, and his party's, election.

And none of that is secret or a trick or manipulative. It's all out in the open. But most people don't care to understand it or involve themselves in the debate until it's way too late. And that's the problem. Not subterfuge or secrecy, but time. Most people have neither the time nor the inclination to read and understand what's going on, unless it happens to be a good sound byte for the mainstream media. And all this absurd conspiracy nonsense simply distracts people from meaningful issues that have direct and immediate impact on their lives and fortunes.

So, in that long winded way, what I'm trying to explain is that taking a simple article discussing some pretty routine accounting issues--none of which are secret or duplicitous, and all of which are, as you know, public--and trying to turn them into "black ops budgets" and secret dealings because it serves some personal dark view of the government distracts Americans from the REAL issues, which frequently go unexamined.

There is enough TRUTH out there that should concern us. We don't need to be inventing it simply to entertain ourselves.

Having raised that simple question--what about this simple article led the poster to believe there was something nefarious?--you chose to not respond to my question but attack my motivations for asking it, implying I was some form of government apologist. And David, as is his wont, chose to pile-on because I had the audacity to openly post a few weeks back, in a very respectful manner I might add, that I would never read his new blog because he acknowledged it would be a reflection of what I see as his extreme, black and ugly view of the world in general and America in particular. So there you have it.
 
Geez, it feels like ATS. Guys, guys, wasn't the issue Dolan here? Hello? Hello? This place is like a pre-school sandbox where the hosts have decided to jump in and play, too. Your self-indulgence destroys the show.

P.S. I thought the Doan interview was very good by both Dolan and hosts--until you got into 'fascism is not like the old storm troopers. It's like television." How PROFOUND!!!!!!
 
tommyball said:
Awesome gift idea. That's what I would do if I thought for a minute that any of my relatives might even glance inside the book at all.

I think some sort of revised and illustrated version of Dolan's book would be more accessible to the general public. Something similar to the illustrated version of Hawking's "A Brief History of Time"

-todd.

I completely agree. Michael Cremo's book "Forbidden Archaeology" gives very compelling arguments for the existence of ancient advanced civilizations, but it's a huge daunting book. So he has a condensed version for the general public. I think that Dolan's book would get a much larger audience if he had a similar version of his book.
 
Schuyler said:
Your self-indulgence destroys the show.

Well, in case no one noticed, I'll make this clear: the Paracast is an act of self-indulgence. Nothing less, hopefully something more, but we do this because the topics interest us and we like talking about them. There's no focus group action, no desire to cater to a specific demographic or audience, it's just a place where we talk to people about the realm of the paranormal. Sometimes it dips into politics a bit, but that's not the normal pattern. We're not making a dime of profit on this, no one has to pay for the archives, we're doing this as a labor of love. That there are many of you who find value in listening to it gratifies us deeply, but we'd probably be doing it if no one was listening at all. So take what we say with a grain of salt, and realize that if you want to push our buttons - well, at least my buttons - I won't hesitate to respond, and perhaps not in the way that you'd like. As I've already stated, I'm of the mind that the time for sensible, civil discussion about politics is at an end. I have VERY strong feelings and thoughts about the political nightmare that the US has been plunged into, and will gladly throw away any chains of political correctness and express myself as I wish. Feel free to respond or not, no one is forcing anyone to type a single word into this forum.
 
Gee David, that quieted the roar.

For the record, Dolan seems to be one of a few people in the study of paranormal phenomena who actually understands what research is, what it means and really works within the parameters of an actual research model. Next... the triangulation of the data! Bravo Rich and thank you!

As for "Dr" Greer...what is he a "doctor" of anyway?

Perhaps to "clean up" the field of "ufology" or anything paranormal, a valid and reliable measure that is peer reviewed should be applied to a person's "research" and "researchers" can earn a credential that is awarded through study and investigation. It can be based on any one of the many academic research models that already exists and that is statistically accurate and TRULY scientific.

Just because you are an experiencer, a wannabe experiencer, or like many a poor soul seeking notoriety with an interest in the paranormal, this does not make you a researcher!

Seems like any Steve, Dickhead, or Kal who wants to impose meaning in his/her life can fabricate any tale, photo, and claim to be a "researcher". Oh, and writing a book and self publishing it doesn't count either... If you write a book about something you "experienced", you are a WRITER - and it can be FICTION or NON-Fiction. If you tell other people about what you saw or what happened to you, you are telling people about what you saw or about what happened to you. These behaviors are not "research".

And because no one/authority is in a position to say "BS", the pile of dung continues to grow (and you know how that gets when you stir it around. All you get are allot of people complaining that it "stinks.")

FYI - Princeton University has done some interesting work in funding and conducting documented and valid research on paranormal phenomena and has linked its research with the disciplines of physics and philosophy. This is REAL research.

Forget the right, the left, the democrats, and republicans. Let's do some good work cleaning our own house and watch what happens.

"Become the change you want to see" Gandhi
 
David Biedny wrote
As I've already stated, I'm of the mind that the time for sensible, civil discussion about politics is at an end. I have VERY strong feelings and thoughts about the political nightmare that the US has been plunged into, and will gladly throw away any chains of political correctness and express myself as I wish.
So what's the point? You're intelligent enough to know that the lack of civility you express in your discourse is of no value, that it is neither persuasive nor useful. It may play to the handful of neo-libs who border on anti-Americanism at every turn--in some cases don't just border on it, they jump with both feet into that territory--but it will never sway most Americans. It is whistling in the wind, talk for its own sake, self-indulgent and pointless. Aren't you better off engaging in some action that fits with your world view? You can't possibly change America. The overwhelming majority of Americans, regardless of party, will never move towards your views, anymore than they would move to right wing extremism. And it is often less what you say than the manner in which you say it, the total arrogance of righteousness and hostility towards all other viewpoints with which you express yourself even as you condemn others for exactly the same thing.

For some reason you see yourself as the ONLY person--or certainly one of an elite few--who holds strong sentiments about this country. That is, of course, preposterous and so presumptuous as to defy belief. People of all political persuasions hold strong beliefs. But few of us ever publicly express not only a readiness but an eagerness to leave this country. This is not, as much as you'd like to pretend, a matter of your self-declared "brave" stance to "throw away the chains of political correctness". This is about the absolute abhorrence of your underlying message of clear disdain for this country. I have many friends and acquaintances of differing political persuasions. None of them are extreme, and all of us share a common love of this country and a legitimate desire to see us continue our place as the shining light of freedom and democracy and opportunity throughout the world. Much of what you have said indicates you are in a very different place. And, please, spare us the old extremist cover of "caring too much" and "being too much the patriot".

In any event, I can tolerate your occasional lapses into political nonsense on the Paracast, because Gene has the ability to quickly rein you in and get things back on track. And I do think you make a strong contribution when you address the subject at hand, which you do most of the time. When you indulge yourself with using the program as a platform for your ugly brand of politics and black world view...I'll pass. And I suspect there are more than a few listeners who share my position.
 
Verum said:
For some reason you see yourself as the ONLY person--or certainly one of an elite few--who holds strong sentiments about this country. That is, of course, preposterous and so presumptuous as to defy belief. People of all political persuasions hold strong beliefs. But few of us ever publicly express not only a readiness but an eagerness to leave this country. This is not, as much as you'd like to pretend, a matter of your self-declared "brave" stance to "throw away the chains of political correctness". This is about the absolute abhorrence of your underlying message of clear disdain for this country. I have many friends and acquaintances of differing political persuasions. None of them are extreme, and all of us share a common love of this country and a legitimate desire to see us continue our place as the shining light of freedom and democracy and opportunity throughout the world. Much of what you have said indicates you are in a very different place. And, please, spare us the old extremist cover of "caring too much" and "being too much the patriot".

That is absolute, utter nonsense. Again, you have NO IDEA of how I see myself, so to claim that I somehow feel that I am the "ONLY person" to "hold strong sentiments about this country" is completely disingenuous. Not that I'm surprised - this is typical bully banter, the last fallback of a morally bankrupt Republicon POV. And then you throw in the "you hate your country" bullshit, which is downright heinous and demonstrative of your own intolerance of differing views. The right wingers always fall back on this nonsense, so again, no surprise. You love a country? How childish and limiting. Nationalism is no longer compatible with the current global reality, there are those of us who see ourselves as global citizens, who are just as comfortable in Argentina as we are in Albany, and who understand that it's a big world, and that the US is NOT the center of the universe. Being bilingual + has been influential in molding a worldview which does not prescribe to sad little patriotic pandering, and which recognizes the true dynamics of the current state of American imperialism and the damage it's inflicting on the world. So when the dollar is completely flushed down the drain, when the Muslim world seeks revenge on us for your immoral war on Islam, when the Chinese knock on the White House door and deliver an invoice for whatever remains of our treasury, you can cook your patriotism up on a grill, place it in a burrito and shove it in your eye. History will be the true judge of the impending fall of the American empire, regardless of whatever you OR I have to say about it. And if you think I'm happy about this tragic state of affairs, then you're as sharp as a sack of wet mice.
 
The Pair of Cats said:
I think you speak for the majority of us on this thread, David. Your comments re: Verum are spot on!

You mean the majority of people on a paranormal forum are conspiracy-minded lefties? I'm SHOCKED!!! Next you'll be telling me that the majority of people at a Nascar race are republicans!

:)
 
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