The 1980 Cash-Landrum sighting and investigation

[Trajanus]

You weren't asking me, but I'd like to comment on that.

No problem.

As to the point of injuring the witnesses, based on the behavior of the craft, it does not seem deliberate.....As Chris Lambright pointed out in the show, about the only purposeful behavior observed was the apparent piloting of the UFO between the pine trees to hover over the road.

Precisely what caused injury.....of all the places where it might've descended, over a forested area, why over a road, especially when a vehicle was nearby? Why not in some clearing? And if this thing was just being transferred from one base to another, why didn't the choppers or a truck just carry it? Why take a chance outside a restricted area?

 

[Randall]

On this point, we will probably disagree and I will blame our old arch nemesis: a dearth of hard data. Reported shapes can certainly be grouped into general categories, i.e. "saucer, cigar, triangular, spherical" ...

You're talking configuration ( shape ) while I'm talking type ( purpose ). In both cases some reasonable assumptions about UFOs ( alien craft ) can be made:

1. Mother ships carry passengers and/or shuttles and/or drones
2. Shuttles carry passengers and/or drones.
3. Drones operate remotely or by A.I.
4. All of the above operate on technology so different from ours as to be alien.

 

[Jeff Davis]

Kevin Randle had something very interesting to state recently via his blog that may inadvertently offer an important investigative clue with respect to the C/L case. Via his contacts in the military, he stated that he was certain that he should have been able to confirm the massive helicopter rescue/air lift reported to be associated with this case.

A Different Perspective: Cash Landrum and Crash Retrievals

My point is, what if it was NASA? Could we still trace some kind of accountability with respect to the helicopters? What about aviation licensing? Do military and pretty much all aircraft have to be licensed to fly within US air space? If so, could the Federal Aviation Commission possibly provide accountability for such a large number Chinook helicopters?

Edit: Apologies. I see Mike already provided this link within this thread. I guess I can't keep track of where I'm reading what. Maybe the perspective of my post might still offer some help.

 

[Sentry]

Precisely what caused injury.....of all the places where it might've descended, over a forested area, why over a road, especially when a vehicle was nearby? Why not in some clearing? And if this thing was just being transferred from one base to another, why didn't the choppers or a truck just carry it? Why take a chance outside a restricted area?

Mostly unanswerable questions, for now, I'm afraid. But, IF, the witnesses were close in describing the size of the craft, it was about this big:

Too big to carry!

 

[Trajanus]

I've come to believe the mystery of Doty's true role and intentions will remain as secret and enigmatic as the phenomenon itself.

I came across a book, The Alien Plan for Earth, with an interesting take on that, among other things. It's just a POD book though.

 

[boomerang]

I came across a book, The Alien Plan for Earth, with an interesting take on that, among other things. It's just a POD book though.

I hadn't heard of it. Could you summarize the theme of the book? Was Doty specifically mentioned?

 

[Trajanus]

I hadn't heard of it. Could you summarize the theme of the book? Was Doty specifically mentioned?

It's very controversial in its assessment of the longterm impact of the phenomenon. Doty is mentioned specifically a number of times.

 

[Sentry]

Speaking of books, Kevin Randle's Project Moon Dust has a chapter on the Cash-Landrum case.

He just provides an overview of the case relying on published reports and not independent investigation, but still its a good read. He takes a hard, skeptical look at things, but finds the evidence coming up short. His military experience provides some valuable insight, and as a helicopter pilot he finds it very difficult to believe that an operation of that scope could be accomplished during the Christmas holidays. That's a valid opinion, but we must consider that if there were some national emergency, the resources could have been activated.

 

[kellyiom]

an ever intriguing case this one, always been fascinated by it. I've kindof veered away from the nuke rocket theory and read that it was caused by a special ops mission transporting volatile fuel in a sac slung under a chopper . the story said either a helicopter or the bag of fuel got snagged on power lines causing the arcing and chemical exposure. seemed quite logical to me but can't remember or warrant its provenance . great posts on this topic btw .

 

[Sentry]

the story said either a helicopter or the bag of fuel got snagged on power lines causing the arcing and chemical exposure. seemed quite logical to me but can't remember or warrant its provenance .

Welcome to the forum, kelliom! The scenario you describe sounds like one discussed on the long, long thread on the case at ATS started by Dalbeck. As I recall, this came up in a discussion by DPD11 and Kandinsky. It's not bad, but in this scenario, I think there would have been far greater physical evidence left behind. Still, it's interesting as it requires no fantastic man-made or ET UFO, and accounts for a lot of the behaviors and flight characteristics reported.

Another weird bit we've not talked about- as far as I've been able to determine (without seeing the original case files) Vickie Landrum's hypnosis session in July 1981 revealed a detail not mentioned in earlier accounts. During the sighting, she smelled "lighter fluid". Apparently, J. Schuessler was satisfied that it was just an indication that it was helicopter fluid, indicating that copters were really there, and very close.

Since this detail emerged under hypnosis, it may not be genuine, but if it is, it raises interesting questions about the chemical agent scenario.

 

[kellyiom]

that's the one! glad you knew it, thought it might have been an implanted memory or something ! it surely must be something physical but I've never been able to understand why anyone would try to fly such an experimental craft in that location . It was the era of SDI, 'Star Wars' , and cold war so maybe it was a terrestrial technology . I always had a lot of sympathy for the victims, being injured like that and hitting a stone wall must have been very demoralizing.

 

[Trajanus]

It seems more a case of the car happening to intersect the objects flight path than the object targeting the car.

But it descended to a point just above and in front.

Had the car come by 30 minutes later or sooner or maintained a safer distance, in all likelihood nobody would have been hurt.

I don't think we can assume that. For all we know, the ETs or government were testing some weapon, or the effects of heat and radiation on a human. If that were true, they could've waited for Cash or singed somebody else. Btw even if the craft were big, they could've shipped it to a new base disassembled.

 

[Sentry]

I just discovered an interesting picture on a site with historical information on CH-47 helicopters.

There was no information on it, and I'm not sure if its a superimposed photoshop job, but it sure reminded me of the case under discussion!

Edited to add: Found it again in another section along with another photo, labeled Aurora Borealis.

 

[Soupie]

It's really a shame there weren't more witnesses, both for corroboration purposes, but also to get different perspectives on the characteristics of the UFO.

As others have said, it's difficult to imagine that such a large number of helicopters would go unnoticed. As regards any radar of the event, I imagine the military could have restricted its dissemination if the local airport had indeed captured anything, especially if there was a covert op going on.

There is much rumor about alleged crashed UFO retrievals in the community. One thought I had was that this may have been a non-human UFO in distress and the high number of helicopters was for the purpose of containing it. Twenty plus helicopters seems excessive even for a military test vehicle. (Although that's just my completely uninformed opinion.) The reported scenario reminds me more of a police chase, haha.

Anyhow, you would think the military would use high-speed jets to track a NT-UFO, rather than helicopters. However, maybe the jets were there, shadowing the event, while the helicopters were used to get in closer due to the crafts slow, erratic movements.

That's a lot of speculation on my part. Just trying to make sense of what was reported. Certainly a case that captures the imagination.

 

[Sentry]

... maybe the jets were there, shadowing the event, while the helicopters were used to get in closer due to the crafts slow, erratic movements.

Hmm, yet another first-time poster! Welcome, Soupie!
I'm glad you noticed that about the UFO's flight. That's something that's often glossed over in discussions of the case, since UFOs are supposed exceed conventional aircraft performance.

"The Cash-Landrum case... Unfortunately for UFO advocates, the ‘UFO’ never demonstrated extraordinary performance capabilities, like suddenly zooming away.” -Richard Hall, editor MUFON Journal, Nov, 1998.

Also, I agree about wishing we had other witnesses to describe the UFO and its flight. The details they were very just so lacking in precision. It seems, though that it was slow moving for the entire time, and they were able to (unintentionally) twice catch up with it while driving. The only suggestion of superior performance is the description of moving higher into the sky until it could not be seen. This is unclear, as it happened while they were many miles away, approaching Dayton. They could have just lost sight of it from the distance involved.

 

[Randall]

But it descended to a point just above and in front.
I don't think we can assume that. For all we know, the ETs or government were testing some weapon, or the effects of heat and radiation on a human. If that were true, they could've waited for Cash or singed somebody else. Btw even if the craft were big, they could've shipped it to a new base disassembled.

I think it's safe to assume that it would have been likely that had the car come by 30 minutes later or sooner or maintained a safer distance, then nobody would have been hurt. Why? Because to assume otherwise implies that the people behind the exercise were waiting in the area to target a random car on the roadway, or that they were specifically targeting Cash & Landrum. Given all the denials by the military that the event ever happened, it's obvious that if it was a secret government operation, that hanging around waiting for a random vehicle to come along with a fleet of helicopters and a bizarre prototype with flames shooting out of it would be a really stupid idea. It's also just as unlikely that Cash & Landrum were specifically targeted because it would have meant setting up surveillance well in advance and somehow coordinating this outlandish and rather massive display around the behavior of Cash & Landrum. Although that may have been possible, how likely is it, really? This was obviously a random event that could have happened to anybody who had happened upon that spot at that time.

 

[Trajanus]

I think it's safe to assume that it would have been likely that had the car come by 30 minutes later or sooner or maintained a safer distance, then nobody would have been hurt. Why? Because to assume otherwise implies that the people behind the exercise were waiting in the area to target a random car on the roadway, or that they were specifically targeting Cash & Landrum. Given all the denials by the military that the event ever happened, it's obvious that if it was a secret government operation, that hanging around waiting for a random vehicle to come along with a fleet of helicopters and a bizarre prototype with flames shooting out of it would be a really stupid idea. It's also just as unlikely that Cash & Landrum were specifically targeted because it would have meant setting up surveillance well in advance and somehow coordinating this outlandish and rather massive display around the behavior of Cash & Landrum. Although that may have been possible, how likely is it, really? This was obviously a random event that could have happened to anybody who had happened upon that spot at that time.

I think the craft was ET and they'd probably know when and where to get someone. I don't think the helicopters were waiting with the craft. They were not noticed at the start. IIRC Schuessler was told they came to monitor an alien craft.

 

[Randall]

I think the craft was ET and they'd probably know when and where to get someone. I don't think the helicopters were waiting with the craft. They were not noticed at the start. IIRC Schuessler was told they came to monitor an alien craft.

Rocket or jet like flames shooting out of the bottom while making a loud noise is not indicative of an alien craft, and nothing about the way that it moved indicated anything alien, and no alien beings were seen. However a bunch of normal helicopters were seen. It also doesn't seem reasonable to think that the operators of the craft decided to come all the way to Earth just to expose some random humans to their exhaust fumes, and then casually drift off over some trees. These factors don't mean the object wasn't alien. It just means there isn't sufficient reason to think it was. It all seems much more terrestrial in nature. But who knows, maybe some further evidence besides Schuessler's hearsay will surface.

 

[Soupie]

It also doesn't seem reasonable to think that the operators of the craft decided to come all the way to Earth just to expose some random humans to their exhaust fumes, and then casually drift off over some trees. These factors don't mean the object wasn't alien. It just means there isn't sufficient reason to think it was.

Something I wonder about is how burning (jet) fuel/flames, could cause radiation burns? If the craft was nuclear powered, would it still produce flames? (I know nothing about nuclear propulsion.)

It seems odd to me that the craft would have both chemical and nuclear propulsion systems.

The assumption that there was a nuclear aspect to the craft comes from the symptoms experienced by the witnesses, right? Would burning fuel/flames cause similar symptoms? I don't believe so.

For what it's worth, whether human or non-human, I don't believe the craft/pilots intended to buzz the car/witnesses, but that's just my opinion.

If this was a (non-human) UFO in distress, that might explain the mundane performance (and the 20+ helicopters shadowing it).

One other detail I've wondered about is what other phenomena might cause the symptoms the witnesses had. Although I haven't watched the witness interviews (blush) I did catch on the Paracast that the one woman was acting coy about where they had been... Did they get themselves into some kind of trouble; had they done something or had they been somewhere they shouldn't have been? It's well documented that people sometimes create wild stories to hide certain truths sometimes...

Of course theres the unsubstantiated issue of the road being torn up. Wish this could be proven conclusively. It would really go a long way toward backing up the witnesses testimony.

As far as this craft being a military prototype: my limited understanding is that military prototypes are regularly declassified over time. Has there ever been a craft resembling the one in this case which has been declassified?

Also, my unqualified opinion is that it would be absurd for the military to test a prototype, nuclear powered flying craft in a populated (albeit sparsely) area, one that required the assistance of 20+ helicopters. (Is there any precedence for that in military literature?)

This seems like a craft that would be better tested in the desert.

 

[Sentry]

Soupie, ther's just no proof that they were radiation burns. their symptoms seemed to resemble radiation burns, and that's all we can determine from the facts and documents available.

Hydrazine has been suggested as a chemical agent that could cause some of the symptoms.

As far as this craft being a military prototype: my limited understanding is that military prototypes are regularly declassified over time. Has there ever been a craft resembling the one in this case which has been declassified?

Yeah, but nobody's going to like it. A cousin of this.

HAPP, an unmanned blimp remotely powered by microwaves. Just another mugshot to look at.