The Boy Who Lived Before - Documentary about a childs memories of another life

[Tyger]

Nikola Tesla: "The day science begins to study non-physical phenomena, it will make more progress in one decade than in all the previous centuries of its existence."

 

[Jeff Davis]

Nikola Tesla: "The day science begins to study non-physical phenomena, it will make more progress in one decade than in all the previous centuries of its existence."

Tyger,
Isn't it interesting that the vast majority of the truly remarkable discovery oriented scientists preached stuff like Faith, Imagination, and Intuition? The discoveries that they made were never about putting two and two together with respect for academics and what they had learned. They never used their minds backwards like that. It is nearly always due to the forward nature of intuitive knowledge and meaning. IMO, all knowledge exists as information long before the human mind acquires it.

Like everything else in the universe, our first notions center on the aspect of control due to our survival instincts. The process of education was born of fear, like so much of what we refer to as refined civilization. As we drive down the avenue of progress, the same instinctual trap keeps our mind's eye focused in the rear view mirror as opposed to the expanding vista in front of us.

That avenue to vista route of travel only gets us to the edge of the chasm that is the Akashic Record however.

It is fairly revealing that in so many gnostic and religious teachings, it's conveyed that upon death we receive a "transforming crown of knowledge"

This would seem natural to me much like the metamorphosis experienced by much of the natural order of things.

Like MR. Ebert recently stated post his mystical deathbed experience, "This is all an elaborate hoax." He stated that as much was due to the fact that he had witnessed reality from his visionary perspective as it truly existed apart from the human perceptive condition. One wherein all time was one to the effect it didn't really exist apart from our perceptions of it.

I call this the temporal leash. It may be a cocoon of sorts.

 

[Randall]

Randall, our exchange on this topic is just going around in circles at this point, so I'll just repeat my main point once more:

Repeat it all you like. There is no way to be certain that the memories these subjects claim to have of being in a past life are "veridical" in that particular context. Additionally, if these so-called reincarnation "researchers" want to define what reincarnation is in order to suit their particular purposes, then they should have defensible reasons for doing so, and at this point, if what you are saying is true, then they don't. Investigating claims of having memories that might match those of some deceased person is purely an investigation into the acquisition of memories, not "past lives" or the transference of the deceased person's "spirit" or "soul" into the body of the person who claims to possess such memories.

To clarify further, for the rest of the world, the concept of reincarnation varies widely from the popular belief that when someone dies, whoever they are as a person continues to exist and is "reborn" into another body. Then there is the concept that it's not so much who they are as a person, but their so-called "spirit" or "soul", which is deemed to be a number of other things depending on what religion or mystical belief system one subscribes to, but is generally considered to be some sort of unspecified "essence" of an individual that can be transplanted from one body to another.

The concept slides even further into the belief that this essence can be transplanted not only into other humans, but animals. Some of these beliefs are widespread and have a considerable historical background dating back far before modern reincarnation researchers came into the picture. I'm sure you are probably already aware of all this, but for those who want an independent reference, see the Wikipedia article. This historical evidence amply shows that research into unexplained memories is hardly the same as researching reincarnation. Perhaps once we have that part straight, we might have a reasonably solid foundation from which to begin.

For further interest, here's a list of those who have claimed to be the reincarnation of Jesus Christ: List of people claimed to be Jesus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[smcder]

. . .

Like MR. Ebert recently stated post his mystical deathbed experience, "This is all an elaborate hoax." He stated that as much was due to the fact that he had witnessed reality from his visionary perspective as it truly existed apart from the human perceptive condition. One wherein all time was one to the effect it didn't really exist apart from our perceptions of it.

I call this the temporal leash. It may be a cocoon of sorts.

Like MR. Ebert recently stated post his mystical deathbed experience, "This is all an elaborate hoax." He stated that as much was due to the fact that he had witnessed reality from his visionary perspective as it truly existed apart from the human perceptive condition. One wherein all time was one to the effect it didn't really exist apart from our perceptions of it.

Is this Roger Ebert? Do you have a link for this?

 

[Constance]

Repeat it all you like. There is no way to be certain that the memories these subjects claim to have of being in a past life are "veridical" in that particular context. Additionally, if these so-called reincarnation "researchers" want to define what reincarnation is in order to suit their particular purposes, then they should have defensible reasons for doing so, and at this point, if what you are saying is true, then they don't. Investigating claims of having memories that might match those of some deceased person is purely an investigation into the acquisition of memories, not the "past lives" or the transference of the deceased person's "spirit" or "soul" into the body of the person who claims to possess such memories.

Yes, that's the reason why I expressed the issue as follows in the last sentence of the paragraph I repeated:

To dismiss the evidence for re-incarnation of some memories and aspects of the personality of a formerly existing human being, you'd need to provide another explanation that can account for the nature of the research Stevenson and others have presented.

and why I've stressed Tyger's point that these memories and aspects of behavior, interests, character, etc., are widely recognized to manifest in a 'new life', a new embodied human individual. Reincarnation researchers do not suppose (to my knowledge) that a formerly existing person is 'resurrected' in his or her entirety. The 'reincarnation' research indicates, however, that aspects of a formerly existing personality accompanied by veridical memories of that person's lifetime do at times reoccur in persons living in the present.

The first question we need to ask about this phenomenon is how (by what means) this can happen; the second question that confronts us {whether we articulate it or not} is what this means about the nature of reality, the structure of the world in which we live and our relationship with it. The parallel holographic theories of the quantum physicist David Bohm [concerning the entanglement and permanence of information in the universe] and the neuroscientist Karl Pribram [concerning the holographic structure of the brain/mind] were, to my knowledge, the first expressions of a physical theory that might account for many aspects of ordinary human experience and also for the experiences and aptitudes subsumed under the term psi. Thus research into 'unexplained memories' takes its place within the whole inquiry into psychic phenomena, from telepathy to precognition, clairvoyance, and PK, to remote viewing. In my opinion, all of these phenomena should be studied in concert, with concerted effort, if we are to begin to appreciate the nature (and significance) of mind, brain, and consciousness -- individually and collectively -- and thus the informational structure of nature and being. The science links I've been providing on some other threads demonstrate that many physicists and consciousness researchers are thinking in this direction.

 

[Constance]

Like MR. Ebert recently stated post his mystical deathbed experience, "This is all an elaborate hoax." He stated that as much was due to the fact that he had witnessed reality from his visionary perspective as it truly existed apart from the human perceptive condition. One wherein all time was one to the effect it didn't really exist apart from our perceptions of it.

Is this Roger Ebert? Do you have a link for this?

Yes, please do provide us more information about Ebert's deathbed experience, Jeff.

 

[Randall]

Yes, that's the reason why I expressed the issue as follows in the last sentence of the paragraph I repeated ... and why I've stressed Tyger's point that these memories and aspects of behavior, interests, character, etc., are widely recognized to manifest in a 'new life', a new embodied human individual. Reincarnation researchers do not suppose (to my knowledge) that a formerly existing person is 'resurrected' in his or her entirety. The 'reincarnation' research indicates, however, that aspects of a formerly existing personality accompanied by veridical memories of that person's lifetime do at times reoccur in persons living in the present.

People can have a lot of "aspects" in common with other people, including a similar personality, similar memories, similar imagination, even similar physical features, and it's entirely probable that they "reoccur" as a combination of biology, education, and social conditioning rather than from some nonsensical mystical belief system.

Let's face it, virtually all reincarnation believers associate reincarnation with the idea of some continuity of personhood, yet these concepts are flawed to the point where they deserve to be discarded, and I'll emphasize here that this isn't simply an "opinion". It's the result of logical consequence and is as certain as the square of the hypotenuse is equal to the sum of the squares of the other two sides.

However if we dump the word "reincarnation" and all the religious and mystical baggage that goes along with it, then perhaps our investigation into the mystery of the unexplained memories that lead people to jump to their various conclusions about reincarnation can progress.

The first question we need to ask about this phenomenon is how (by what means) this can happen; the second question that confronts us {whether we articulate it or not} is what this means about the nature of reality, the structure of the world in which we live and our relationship with it.

OK. That's reasonable. There is coincidence, subconscious programming based on exposure to various pieces of information in the environment, deception, fabrication, deception by proxy. Perhaps there is even some sort of unexplained memory transference. It's all quite interesting.

The parallel holographic theories of the quantum physicist David Bohm [concerning the entanglement and permanence of information in the universe] and the neuroscientist Karl Pribram [concerning the holographic structure of the brain/mind] were, to my knowledge, the first expressions of a physical theory that might account for many aspects of ordinary human experience and also for the experiences and aptitudes subsumed under the term psi. Thus research into 'unexplained memories' takes its place within the whole inquiry into psychic phenomena, from telepathy to precognition, clairvoyance, and PK, to remote viewing. In my opinion, all of these phenomena should be studied in concert, with concerted effort, if we are to begin to appreciate the nature (and significance) of mind, brain, and consciousness -- individually and collectively -- and thus the informational structure of nature and being. The science links I've been providing on some other threads demonstrate that many physicists and consciousness researchers are thinking in this direction.

You covered a lot there, and to my knowledge, nothing definitive has come from any of it. Yet I agree with your assessment ( at least I assume it's your assessment ), that there is something going on beyond the ordinary that deserves further study. If I were asked to substantiate why I believe this, I couldn't. But I think so anyway. Call it a feeling based on personal experience that goes beyond what I would think mere chance accounts for.

 

[Tyger]

Tyger,
Isn't it interesting that the vast majority of the truly remarkable discovery oriented scientists preached stuff like Faith, Imagination, and Intuition? The discoveries that they made were never about putting two and two together with respect for academics and what they had learned. They never used their minds backwards like that. It is nearly always due to the forward nature of intuitive knowledge and meaning. IMO, all knowledge exists as information long before the human mind acquires it.

Agree absolutely. More is discovered through the contemplative observation of the natural world - which includes humanity - than through front-loaded abstraction imo. The experience is as it's been described by so many - the knowledge 'falls into' the mind.

Tesla said many interesting things - he's as interesting as Einstein - perhaps more so in certain respects. Here is just a sampling of some of my favorite of his observations -

“My brain is only a receiver. In the Universe there is a core from which we obtain knowledge, strength and inspiration. I have not penetrated into the secrets of this core, but I know that it exists.” - Nikola Tesla

“Today’s scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality. ” - Nikola Tesla

“If your hate could be turned into electricity, it would light up the whole world.” - Nikola Tesla

“Let the future tell the truth, and evaluate each one according to his work and accomplishments. The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine” - Nikola Tesla

It is fairly revealing that in so many gnostic and religious teachings, it's conveyed that upon death we receive a "transforming crown of knowledge".

Interesting - I have not heard that. One of my greatest disappointments has been to have found that 'the dead' can be as clueless as anyone 'alive'. Being dead is no guarantee of any greater wisdom or command. Clueless alive - one will be clueless dead. In fact, it has been indicated that 'the dead' have a great need for the wisdom of those still alive - those still within physical incarnation. There is knowledge and experiences, as well as wisdom, that can only be garnered while incarnated in the physical.

Like Mr. Ebert recently stated post his mystical deathbed experience, "This is all an elaborate hoax." He stated that as much was due to the fact that he had witnessed reality from his visionary perspective as it truly existed apart from the human perceptive condition. One wherein all time was one to the effect it didn't really exist apart from our perceptions of it.

I assume you are referencing this: Roger Ebert's Wife on His Final Moments - Esquire

From text: "... as we realized he was transitioning out of this world and into the next, everything, all of us, just went calm. They turned off the machines, and that room was so peaceful. I put on his music that he liked, Dave Brubeck. We just sat there on the bed together, and I whispered in his ear. I didn't want to leave him. I sat there with him for hours, just holding his hand. Roger looked beautiful. He looked really beautiful. I don't know how to describe it, but he looked peaceful, and he looked young.

"The one thing people might be surprised about—Roger said that he didn't know if he could believe in God. He had his doubts. But toward the end, something really interesting happened. That week before Roger passed away, I would see him and he would talk about having visited this other place. I thought he was hallucinating. I thought they were giving him too much medication. But the day before he passed away, he wrote me a note: "This is all an elaborate hoax." I asked him, "What's a hoax?" And he was talking about this world, this place. He said it was all an illusion. I thought he was just confused. But he was not confused. He wasn't visiting heaven, not the way we think of heaven. He described it as a vastness that you can't even imagine. It was a place where the past, present, and future were happening all at once."

I call this the temporal leash. It may be a cocoon of sorts.

Appropos metaphor.

 

[Burnt State]

When I come out of my temporal cocoon I want to become a space butterfly.

 

[smcder]

Agree absolutely. More is discovered through the contemplative observation of the natural world - which includes humanity - than through front-loaded abstraction imo. The experience is as it's been described by so many - the knowledge 'falls into' the mind.

. . .

I assume you are referencing this: Roger Ebert's Wife on His Final Moments - Esquire

From text: "... as we realized he was transitioning out of this world and into the next, everything, all of us, just went calm. They turned off the machines, and that room was so peaceful. I put on his music that he liked, Dave Brubeck. We just sat there on the bed together, and I whispered in his ear. I didn't want to leave him. I sat there with him for hours, just holding his hand. Roger looked beautiful. He looked really beautiful. I don't know how to describe it, but he looked peaceful, and he looked young.

"The one thing people might be surprised about—Roger said that he didn't know if he could believe in God. He had his doubts. But toward the end, something really interesting happened. That week before Roger passed away, I would see him and he would talk about having visited this other place. I thought he was hallucinating. I thought they were giving him too much medication. But the day before he passed away, he wrote me a note: "This is all an elaborate hoax." I asked him, "What's a hoax?" And he was talking about this world, this place. He said it was all an illusion. I thought he was just confused. But he was not confused. He wasn't visiting heaven, not the way we think of heaven. He described it as a vastness that you can't even imagine. It was a place where the past, present, and future were happening all at once."


Appropos metaphor.

Thanks for the information on Ebert - really interesting and beautiful.

IMO, all knowledge exists as information long before the human mind acquires it.

Agree absolutely. More is discovered through the contemplative observation of the natural world - which includes humanity - than through front-loaded abstraction imo. The experience is as it's been described by so many - the knowledge 'falls into' the mind.

From Israel Regardie's A Garden of Pomegranates:

By Yoga is meant that rigorous system of mental and self discipline which has as its primary aim the absolute and complete control of the thinking principle, theRuach; the ultimate object being to obtain the faculty with which to still the stream of thought at will, so that that which is behind (as it were), or above, or beyond the mind can manifest on to the stillness thus produced.

. . .

Once having become at one with transcendental Existence, it intuitively partakes of universal knowledge, which is considered to be a more reliable source of information than the rational introspection of the intellect or the experimental scientific investigation of matter can give. It is the tapping of the source of Life itself, the fons et origo ("source and origin") of existence, rather than a blind groping in the dark after confused symbols which alone appear on the so-called practical or rational plane of thought.

 

[smcder]

When I come out of my temporal cocoon I want to become a space butterfly.

 

[Burnt State]

I admire the way that you have a quote for all seasons.

 

[Burnt State]

Yes, if I could suddenly transform this clunky body into that one I would be even happier.

 

[smcder]

I admire the way that you have a quote for all seasons.

"Everything has been said. But nobody listens. Therefore it has to be said all over again—only better. In order to say it better, we have to know how it was said before."
Roger Shattuck

 

[smcder]

Yes, if I could suddenly transform this clunky body into that one I would be even happier.

"I wouldn’t have loved you if you’d been a usual man. And you wouldn’t have loved me if I’d been a woman who didn’t dress like an insect…" - Lady Cynthia Darrington

 

[Burnt State]

Ok, now your quoting skills are starting to display nothing short of a power one might only describe as, 'paranormal'.

 

[Burnt State]

Oh look, here I am again, time travelling soul that I am, in a past life getting out my airship cocoon to confuse the locals (little do they know about my gender aberrations).

Yes, Steve, it's true - you found me out. I was Katherine Hepburn in a past life. Damn, how did you find out? You've been scrying again with your obsidian mirror haven't you?

 

[smcder]

Oh look, here I am again, time travelling soul that I am, in a past life getting out my airship cocoon to confuse the locals (little do they know about my gender aberrations).

Yes, Steve, it's true - you found me out. I was Katherine Hepburn in a past life. Damn, how did you find out? You've been scrying again with your obsidian mirror haven't you?

Soon I awaked, and there I was, veritably myself again. Now I do not know whether I was then a man dreaming I was Katherine Hepburn, or whether I am now Katherine Hepburn, dreaming I am a man. - Zhuangzi

 

[Burnt State]

Soon I awaked, and there I was, veritably myself again. Now I do not know whether I was then a man dreaming I was Katherine Hepburn, or whether I am now Katherine Hepburn, dreaming I am a man. - Zhuangzi

An appropos manipulation given the time of year.

Kung Hei Fat Choi, brother.

 

[Constance]

Like MR. Ebert recently stated post his mystical deathbed experience, "This is all an elaborate hoax." He stated that as much was due to the fact that he had witnessed reality from his visionary perspective as it truly existed apart from the human perceptive condition. One wherein all time was one to the effect it didn't really exist apart from our perceptions of it.

I call this the temporal leash. It may be a cocoon of sorts.

This is an interesting incident. I think it's unfortunate, though, that the word that came to Ebert to describe his sense of the unreality (or neglible reality) of the world of his current life was 'hoax'. That word carries too much baggage with us, implying an attempt to deceive. I mention this only because there is quite a lot of speculation in this forum about our lived reality being merely a manipulation by some undefined 'superpower' or supercomputer having no clear purpose (except the suggestion that it's merely a game of some sort). I've been wondering what the sources are for this ideation and what makes them persuasive for some.

It would be good if there were a much fuller account of Ebert's last days and weeks, including what medications he was being given, and an account of some other observations he made during this time. A few months before my mother died of widely metastized cancer she was given heavy doses of morphine to reduce the pain she was suffering and consequently sleeping a great deal. One day I was sitting next to her, on the floor next to her bed, while she was sleeping under the effect of the morphine and observed her repeatedly reaching her right hand and arm upward. Soon after, she awoke and realized I was there and she began to talk as if we were on the beach in south Florida (she was recalling lovely times we'd spent there some years ago). I went along with her sense that we were there again and she went on to describe how 'ornate' everything looked, as if she was seeing it in a new way and amazed by what she saw. What was she seeing? Was it a mixture of worlds as well as an interweaving of experiences? We are so far from knowing what goes on in the mind when most of what it experiences in situations like these is accessed subconsciously and unconsciously and perhaps superconsciously.

One of the most stunning recent recognitions of the persistence of the complexity of consciousness has been that of patients long in commas whose doctor's advise the families to shut down the life support systems. These are patients whose EEG's show brain activity at extremely low activity, in the single digits for lengths of time. Pim von Lommel devotes a portion of the end of his book on NDE's to what was discovered when the supervising physicians in those cases hooked up the EEG for a short period just before the shut down of life-support. What they discovered was that brain activity leapt to levels that would support consciousness, in ranges in the 80 and 90 percentile for several minutes and then dropped back to previous minimal levels (perhaps flattening out, but I don't remember that part). Needless to say, this research presents significant challenges to medical and familial decision-making in cases of very deep coma.