The Myth Of The Myth Of Flying Saucers.

[trainedobserver]

I'd go even further and say give an iPad to someone in the eighties or nineties and they would be pretty stumped.

I think we could have come away with a fair understanding of how it works in the 80s. It would probably take an incredible effort to do so but I think it isn't that far off. The display would be the worst of it but you have to understand, the basis for that display has its roots in the 80s. It would probably take 20 or 30 years to replicate. LOL. And the thing is, "We would recognize the components!" Would we even recognize what the components of a truly alien spacecraft even were?

One thing that we are seeing is the compression of the design and manufacturing cycles due to application of computer simulation technology. Design cycles are getting shorter and shorter, therefore a greater frequency for the creation of new and innovative techniques and technologies is possible. Development is occurring exponentially where funding is being applied.

 

[pixelsmith]

who says "aforethought" anyway?

 

[Goggs Mackay]

I think that people are often too quick to jump to the 'black budget' theory for unexplainable flying objects. That is fine if we are talking about things that look like a blackbird or whatever and go really fast and high.
But I do not think anything we have (whether the public is aware or not) is remotely close to instant acceleration and negation of inertia, christ even just very heavy, huge craft hovering without being lighter than air or obvious thrust pointed downwards!
Eh-eh, that stuff is light years ahead of what the brightest physicists can practically come up with just now and I don't believe for a second that a relatively low number of scientists sequestered at some Area 51 type-facility can just invent what the world of physics cannot, when they have it easier in that they are not ruled by military secrecy.
As more time goes by and people are not being presented with proof that the ETH may be true, it seems people are now leaning toward more ethereal explanations, which may indeed play a part, but for me, fancy objects that track on radar and are seen to leave actual indentations and evidence on the ground etc are solid manufactured craft, even if they can 'pop' out (I think just by leaving very quickly) I still think they are manufactured.

If they are indeed manufactured, and we did not make them, then someone else did, by centuries of trying and failing whilst having a society able to devote time to such a project.
To me, the most likely explanation of the manufacture of such things is that there is an off world culture (or many) of intelligent creatures who for whatever reason, are living or visiting this earth, and the reason they are doing that may be nothing to do with helping or hindering us.

I think if anyone had the chance to walk up to a landed UFO they may well find they could stick their ear against it and rap on it with their knuckles and hear a sound characteristic of whatever material the outside is made off. No nuts, no bolts maybe but solid material that is producable with the right know-how. I don't see stronger evidence that it is neccessarily paranormal per-se, tho local field effects may alter consciousness of humans nearby causing paranormal occurences as seen by human observers.

Not saying it is the greys from Z.R but someone from somewhere!

 

[trainedobserver]

If they are indeed manufactured, and we did not make them, then someone else did, by centuries of trying and failing whilst having a society able to devote time to such a project.
To me, the most likely explanation of the manufacture of such things is that there is an off world culture (or many) of intelligent creatures who for whatever reason, are living or visiting this earth, and the reason they are doing that may be nothing to do with helping or hindering us.

Some do appear by the reports to be manufactured objects. I agree, there has to be a industrial society where research, development, manufacturing, and maintenance facilities are producing them. The "saucer factories" would only be one facet of such a culture and it is hard to imagine that concerns about us one way or another play any significant part in it.

 

[Posey Gilbert]

This is science not magic Posey. You have paranormal experiences. I have technological ones. I am here to tell you that the science behind transistors, semiconductors, and VLSI is well understood. I have worked in numerous roles for Data General , Convex Computer Corporation (Supercomputers), Hewlett Packard, and Ratheon. I have done everything from system to component level troubleshooting in manufacturing and R&D environments. I have worked with the guys who design the VLSI components for supercomputers and systems themselves. The science is well understood as well as where it came from and largely where it is going to wind up. I have experienced these things first hand Posey.

I personally do not think that the back-engineering of a significantly advanced or significantly different technology is even remotely possible. Whatever powers and levitates mile long airframes and propels them at fantastic speeds with instantaneous acceleration is probably several orders above any back-engineering attempts. The analogy of giving an iPad to someone in th Middle Ages for example is a good one. It would take centuries to understand even the basic principles behind it much less replicate it if ever. The most likely influence that UFOs and their technology has had on our technological development would be inspiration. The idea that something is possible lends to human creativity. I do not think that semiconductor technology was inspired by captured saucers however, far from it.

Please understand me, I am not a believer in magic.
In fact science was and is one of my favorite subjects, and for the most part I agree with your stance on these things.
It is just that I know we are being visited by things from other realms and if by chance we get our hands on some of their things we will brake it down and try to learn if we can do it ourself.
I do not believe that these things are so advanced that they do not make mistakes or have accidents which I believe they have had and we were able to get some of their things or worse some of them.
With the right knowledge a cavemen could have built cars, TVs, rockets, and computers.
The only difference between us and them is the things we know that they did not, otherwise we are no different.
The same applies to some of these entities, all it is, is that these beings know things that we don't, but we can and will learn given the time, chance, or the devises to study.
Another thing is over the years I have had long discussions with Mitsio Kaku about some of the things I have been taught by my experiences.
He agreed with much of it but said I'd have to put it down in numbers for the other Physist will give it a serious look.

This is science not magic Posey. You have paranormal experiences. I have technological ones. I am here to tell you that the science behind transistors, semiconductors, and VLSI is well understood. I have worked in numerous roles for Data General , Convex Computer Corporation (Supercomputers), Hewlett Packard, and Ratheon. I have done everything from system to component level troubleshooting in manufacturing and R&D environments. I have worked with the guys who design the VLSI components for supercomputers and systems themselves. The science is well understood as well as where it came from and largely where it is going to wind up. I have experienced these things first hand Posey.

I personally do not think that the back-engineering of a significantly advanced or significantly different technology is even remotely possible. Whatever powers and levitates mile long airframes and propels them at fantastic speeds with instantaneous acceleration is probably several orders above any back-engineering attempts. The analogy of giving an iPad to someone in th Middle Ages for example is a good one. It would take centuries to understand even the basic principles behind it much less replicate it if ever. The most likely influence that UFOs and their technology has had on our technological development would be inspiration. The idea that something is possible lends to human creativity. I do not think that semiconductor technology was inspired by captured saucers however, far from it.

This is science not magic Posey. You have paranormal experiences. I have technological ones. I am here to tell you that the science behind transistors, semiconductors, and VLSI is well understood. I have worked in numerous roles for Data General , Convex Computer Corporation (Supercomputers), Hewlett Packard, and Ratheon. I have done everything from system to component level troubleshooting in manufacturing and R&D environments. I have worked with the guys who design the VLSI components for supercomputers and systems themselves. The science is well understood as well as where it came from and largely where it is going to wind up. I have experienced these things first hand Posey.

I personally do not think that the back-engineering of a significantly advanced or significantly different technology is even remotely possible. Whatever powers and levitates mile long airframes and propels them at fantastic speeds with instantaneous acceleration is probably several orders above any back-engineering attempts. The analogy of giving an iPad to someone in th Middle Ages for example is a good one. It would take centuries to understand even the basic principles behind it much less replicate it if ever. The most likely influence that UFOs and their technology has had on our technological development would be inspiration. The idea that something is possible lends to human creativity. I do not think that semiconductor technology was inspired by captured saucers however, far from it.

Surely you cannot think that I don't know the difference between a literal statement and a metaphor, to me it was a given, that those in this forum would know and see the humor in this statement it as I and my classmates did.
My tale about my teachers’ statement of "PFM" was only made to show the class how he viewed the differences between the new incoming technology of transistors, integrated circuitry, and computer chips which were just coming in at that time, compared to that of the vacuum tube technology that he was taught about when he was learning electronic repairs.
He was just trying to impress on the class that this was a new type of technology that we would now have to learn and how different it would be from what he had been taught.
You cannot really think that I am that naive, superstitious, or just stupid can you?
Please understand this, I am not a believer in magic.
Magic to me is only a science or a technique that we have not yet learned, and nothing magical.
In fact Science, Quantum Physics, and Reichian Psychology was and still are some of my favorite subjects, and for the most part I can understand your stance on these matters.
It is just that I know we are being visited by entities from other realms and that some can pass through the membranes between the realms naturally like electric eels can produce electricity.
While others are more like us and need machinery to do the same thing, and if by chance we get our hands on some of their technology, we will break it down, study it to see if we can learn to build the same things ourselves.
It is because I do not believe that these beings are gods or are so advanced that they do not make mistakes or have accidents which I believe they have had and we were able to retrieve some of their crafts, devices, and or worse some of them.
Although I did not read his book to what I've heard about it sounds logical to me Colonel Philip J. Coors claims sound quite logical, and possible.
I can understand why you feel as you do because; you've never had a sighting of their vehicles or a close encounter with them, lucky you.
So you still have the privilege of believing they may or may not exist, so a creek in the night may not set your heart racing, or flood your mind with terrorizing images that drives sleep beyond your reach.
You can comfort yourself with the thought that "It's just the house settling."
I have not been so blessed with the gift of blissful blinding ignorance.
However after an encounter a simple bump in the night to you is the same as the thunder of S.W.A.T kicking down your front door.
Your head fills with the same thoughts, and your heart fills with the same dread.
"What do they want?"
"Why are they coming for me?"
"Are they going to torture me?"
"Will they bring me back?"
We the so called "Civilized" have fooled ourselves unto believing that we are so advanced so knowledgeable about the way things are in the universe.
But in their presence your feelings of being civilized vanishes, and you are instantly reduced to a panicking caveman trying to hide from the flashes of lightening and the rumbling roar of a sudden summers' thunder storm.
We forget that with the right knowledge cavemen too could build skyscrapers, cars, jets, TVs, rocket ships, and computers.
It is what we have learned over the centuries that separate us from them, absent that knowledge we are no different from them.
Actually as I see it the only difference between the cavemen and us is an atomic war.
The fact is we still live in caves only we build them, we still throw rocks and spears, but ours have more of a kick to them.
The same applies to some of these entities, all it is, is that these beings know how to do things that we don't, but we can and will eventually learn given the time, chance, or their devises to study.
It is because I grew up encountering these and other entities, and according to my late brother Chuck I once killed one as a child and when I was forty my mother told me she too had killed one as a child.
This is why I know they are not gods or infallible and therefore they are just as weak and as full of foibles as human beings, that being so then they do "F" up just like we do,
Therefore I know it is very possible that they did crash and if they did so then you can bet our military has got the wreckage, the bodies of their dead, and if there were survivors they got them too.
Post WWII Operation Paperclip bought a lot of the Nazi scientist to America, without them we would have had no Space program as you know they were already pretty advanced with the technology that they had learned from a crashed craft that Germany had recovered.
If that was so then we would have already had a toe hold on the alien technology at the time of the Roswell crash.
Their work on the Bell shows that they had already gone very far beyond what the Americans knew.
If that was true then there is little wonder how the military came to know how to put to use some if that technology they recovered from the Roswell crash.

 

[trainedobserver]

Posey,

When I said, This is science not magic, it was a figure of speech Posey. It was meant to convey that there is a very real and verifiable history behind human technological development and that technology does not just suddenly appear without a traceable line of development.

Just to be clear, I do recognize that UFOs are real and I understand that you have had traumatic visitor encounters.

However, there is no evidence whatsoever that any human technology in use today came from anywhere other than human beings. There simply isn't and I challenge anyone who thinks otherwise to provide evidence to the contrary.

Knowing how to do something is useless unless the infrastructure exists to allow you to exploit that knowledge. So no, a caveman could not construct an iPad, an airplane, or any modern machine even if he had a complete set of instructions to do so. He would have to construct a complete industrial society before he could even begin. Mines, farms, refineries, and so forth would have to be created. The body of knowledge required is simply gargantuan. He would essentially have to go through the progress and development of civilization before he reached the point where the construction of the machine in question could be possible.

Acquiring knowledge is one thing, being able to use it is another. We could for example discover a crashed saucer complete with manuals and training programs in the hold. We could conceivably translate these documents and understand them. But here is the kicker Posey. We would have to largely replicate the process of discovery and development of the principles and techniques of thousands if not millions of things not directly related to the saucer but which are instrumental in its development before we could even begin to reproduce the cooking device in the galley much less the drive, the computer, or the materials they are constructed from!

It is for these reasons that I think the odds are somewhere between slim and none that any human technology has its roots in recovered non-human technology and that back-engineering truly alien technology is highly unlikely.

 

[pixelsmith]

I can't wait for Posey to post some photos, videos or sound bytes of these encounters.

 

[Goggs Mackay]

T.O - spot on. Exactly my argument against earth having any back-engineered ufo craft flying just now. People often mistakenly miss out the whole technological and research infrastructure required for such a thing.
An example that is current, is that there are human societies in the world right now who will have intelligence on par with everyone else. But they lack any historical system of education, research and production. So forget UFOs and iphones. Just try and get a tribe in the Amazon basin to construct even a Wright-brothers type early aircraft. It just could not be done.
It would be easier to give such an aircraft to western human society 50 years before powered flight than it would be to have some human cultures trying right now!

 

[trainedobserver]

Posey,

As someone with a life-long association with these beings, what do you think they want from you? If these are representative of some advanced civilization what is their purpose in terrorizing you do you think?

I personally would welcome even the most terrifying of experiences at this point as validation that my interest in this subject hasn't just been another guilty pleasure. I have contacted experiencers over the years asking the hows and wherefores of instigating an experience to no avail. I would love to get the chance to personally evaluate the experience myself. Foolish, dangerous, risky? Maybe but so far nothing has materialized to be concerned about.

 

[pixelsmith]

me too. i would love to be abducted. being a tall nordic with O neg blood they should be all over me right? .....
i would bring a camera tho.

 

[trainedobserver]

me too. i would love to be abducted. being a tall nordic with O neg blood they should be all over me right? .....
i would bring a camera tho.

I'm really not up for an abduction so much as some sort of sighting. Why can't I just see a saucer, a sphere, a giant cigar shaped mothership spewing out scout ships? Why can't I see something at the very least?

I tell you what I did see recently though. I saw a small Cessna flew over my neighborhood very low. It was so loud I came out on the patio to take a look. It flew over my house making a sharp right. Seconds later two fighter planes, F18s I think, ripped over the house and turned in the same direction. It was a WTF moment.

 

[Goggs Mackay]

I wonder too 'why can't I see a UFO?' but then I remind myself that I probably spend more time outdoors looking at the sky for hours, rather than talking about it on internet forums?
Serious point though.
I have often thought about going to mexico city or indeed the SLV, to increase my chances but really what would that increase realistically be? Probably marginal, unless I were to spend a long time outdoors in such places.
I think a lot of it is down to luck and maximising your chances, i.e get outside more and look up! Sounds deceptively simple but if you spend your time when outside looking at the sidewalk or chatting to someone then you are only going to see something that practically lands in your lap.

Another thing is, I live in a city of about 220,000 population and even it is the oil industry hub of europe (Aberdeen, Scotland. 3rd largest city in Scotland after Glasgow and Edinburgh) I have never once heard of a UFO sighting occuring here. There is a very small town called Bonnybrigg about 100miles south of here that was a major hotspot for most of the 90's though I believe it has gone quiet on the UFO front recently.
I truly believe that if there are no actual 'hotspots' for UFOs, there are certainly places that seem to attract UFOs more than other places.
The SLV, Mexico City, New Mexico, Arizona, places in Amazon basin of Brazil, Peru etc. I don't think the US attracts more than it's fair share but the wealth there means many people have cameras, camcorders etc and because of the media, stories find their way out internationally.
There may be many sightings in the Australian outback, but few people and infrastructure to see and report them.

I believe some people have indeed recorded sightings due to sheer perseverance. One english guy I saw on a UFO documentary, living quite close to where Rendlesham happened, bagged 2 sightings he recorded on video - but that was because he stood on his porch roof with a camera every night for a year. Possibly any spot on earth may yield something if you are prepared to put in the hours (we can't all trust to luck!).

And I do think also someone who always carries a camera round their neck or in the glove compartment of their car is going to be the guy who may see one and certainly the guy who will record it if he does. The ubiquity of camera phones now can only be a good thing for recorded sightings, even if the relability of the captured account is questioned due to digital manipulation being possible. No-one should allow fear of people doubting a digital image to disuade them from taking pictures because despite it being un-scientific, I do sometimes rely on a gut feeling the instant I see a modern UFO image to at least scream 'fake' immediately. Anything worthy of a look is worthy of analysis anyway!

Word!

 

[mike]

Ive said it before, but i find the whole ipad to someone in the middle ages is a poor comparison.

We have better diagnostic tools and knowledge than they did, we are far far better positioned to reverse engineer any technology be it ours or someone elses with the electron microscopes and other advanced tools at our disposal.

While its true someone in the middle ages would be unlikely to reverse engineer an Ipad, give that Ipad to a chinese company who had never seen it before, and they will whip out a cheap copy in a few months.

Another aspect of alleged technological "uplift", is that of mental manipulation.

Given the allegations of abduction, screen memorys, mind to mind communication......
Its possible that even those advances that look entirely human in origin, could be the result of mental manipulation/programming.

I'm open to the possibility we as a species are being "uplifted" both biologically and technologically, slowly and subtly.

Given that we know about the effects of the meeting between advanced and less advanced cultures, and that the result is the destruction of the less advanced in our historical past.
It makes sense to rather than land on the whitehouse lawn and trigger that scenario, to let the less advanced come to you, to meet you on equal terms.

This was the meme of 2001 ASO, The "alien" rather than come to us, tweaked us via the monoliths so we could go to it.

Once our scientific language is on par with theirs we can meet as equals, able to describe and understand what we encounter with proper labels instead of "chariots of the gods"

 

[Goggs Mackay]

quick point guys, i have just recently re-watched spielberg's 'Taken' series and actually found i enjoyed it more 2nd time round. i think i was quicker on the uptake of the plot twists and turns and spotted more references to 'real' UFO mythology, having had 8 years more exposure to it all since i last watched the show.
anway, in the series, the military cannot even make the recovered saucer switch on, nor even find controls or an engine. they finally work out that it took 5 alien pilots' brains to 'fly' the ship. power of the mind stuff. I wonder if we really did ever recover an alien craft, could it be that part of the technology is the complete integration of biology and machine?
we are heading that way really fast as far as i can see, and some recent posts have touched on related topics. all good stuff too!
when it is said that the last 120 years of technological advancement has been exponential in terms of discovery and advancement, i wonder if our trajectory along the brain-machine interface technology path may go even quicker?

 

[mike]

Neuroscience could mean soldiers controlling weapons with minds | Science | The Guardian

 

[trainedobserver]

While its true someone in the middle ages would be unlikely to reverse engineer an Ipad, give that Ipad to a chinese company who had never seen it before, and they will whip out a cheap copy in a few months.

It is all about, "How alien is it?" The Chinese company would have access to all the underlying science and tools that created the Ipad. A product of an alien society from another planet would be the result of thousands of years of incremental progress we would have no visibility into and no ability to draw upon.

I'm open to the possibility we as a species are being "uplifted" both biologically and technologically, slowly and subtly.

That would be nice if that were true. I don't see any evidence that it is happening though. Disease, ignorance, war, and poverty are slow to yield the field of battle. If we are getting any help they are being damned slow about it. Like I said previously, I can see no evidence that human technology comes from anywere other than human beings. I'd love to see someone present evidence that proves otherwise.

Question: In our relationships with other animals on this planet, have we ever undertaken an effort to uplift another species for their benefit or has everything we have ever done in the way of mucking with another species been for our benefit? Why would we think some other species would be any different? Wishful thinking?

 

[mike]

It is all about, "How alien is it?" The Chinese company would have access to all the underlying science and tools that created the Ipad. A product of an alien society from another planet would be the result of thousands of years of incremental progress we would have no visibility into and no ability to draw upon.

True, but Im of the mind there is an upper limit to technology based on the underlying principles of the physical universe, and while we are no where near that limit, we are further down the road than those in the middle ages. Imo alien tech is going to be under this same ceiling, we can only speculate, but it may be we are only a few hundred years behind them in terms of technology. this is why i find the ipad/middle ages concept invalid, its not a straight cut and paste equation, we are more advanced than those in the middle ages, thus our ability to re engineer alien tech, is greater than that of a middle ages scientist to re engineer ours

That would be nice if that were true. I don't see any evidence that it is happening though. Disease, ignorance, war, and poverty are slow to yield the field of battle. If we are getting any help they are being damned slow about it. Like I said previously, I can see no evidence that human technology comes from anywere other than human beings. I'd love to see someone present evidence that proves otherwise.

It has to be slow, or the objective is lost. the whole idea would be to make it seem as if we are doing it ourselves. But i dispute the premise re disease, medical science has made some incredible advances, i read about a bone putty today that cures fractures in record times
Bone putty could heal fractures in days rather than months, claim scientists | Mail Online

By the second decade of the 21st Century, we have become used to organs grown in laboratories, genetic surgery and designer babies.



In 2002, medical researchers used enzymes and DNA to build the first molecular computers, and in 2004 improved versions were being injected into people’s veins to fight cancer

Question: In our relationships with other animals on this planet, have we ever undertaken an effort to uplift another species for their benefit or has everything we have ever done in the way of mucking with another species been for our benefit? Why would we think some other species would be any different? Wishful thinking?

Well the wolf got hybridised by selective breeding to go from a house wrecking fiend to a guide dog for the blind.
Bonobo's and cetaceans have also had the uplift treatment.

Researchers in the United States and Great Britain have made a significant breakthrough in deciphering dolphin language in which a series of eight objects have been sonically identified by dolphins. Team leader, Jack Kassewitz of SpeakDolphin.com, ‘spoke’ to dolphins with the dolphin’s own sound picture words. Dolphins in two separate research centers understood the words, presenting convincing evidence that dolphins employ a universal “sono-pictorial” language of communication.

SpeakDolphin - Research Projects > BREAKING NEWS

 

[mike]

My personal favourite hypothesis is that the "aliens" are transbiological in nature, that acheiving "singularity" is a "constant" feature of technological advancement, some of the indicators that this may be the case are the allegations that they can speak mind to mind, are mentally linked with their machines etc etc.

We on the other hand are pursuing the very same path

Activist Post: Merging Man and Machine: Singularity vs. Humanity

Morris prefaces his commentary on Singularity by pointing out some mainstream (even if not well-known) facts regarding the development of technology that he, and many others who are informed on the subject, believes will allow for actually sending human thoughts over the Internet. All of this, of course, will take place after human brains are chipped, or otherwise linked to computers.

Morris writes:

Ten years ago, the US National Science Foundation predicted ‘network-enhanced telepathy’ – sending thoughts over the internet – would be practical by the 2020s.

And thanks to neuroscientists at the University of California, we seem to be on schedule.

Last September, they asked volunteers to watch Hollywood film trailers and then reconstructed the clips by scanning their subjects’ brain activity
By the second decade of the 21st Century, we have become used to organs grown in laboratories, genetic surgery and designer babies.

In 2002, medical researchers used enzymes and DNA to build the first molecular computers, and in 2004 improved versions were being injected into people’s veins to fight cancer

By 2020 we may be able to put even cleverer nanocomputers into our brains to speed up synaptic links, give ourselves perfect memory and perhaps cure dementia
Since the Sixties, computer chips have been doubling their speed and halving their cost every 18 months or so.

If the trend continues, the inventor and predictor Ray Kurzweil has pointed out that by 2029 we will have computers powerful enough to run programs reproducing the 10,000 trillion electrical signals that flash around your skull every second.
They will also have enough memory to store the ten trillion recollections that make you who you are.

And they will also be powerful enough to scan, neuron by neuron, every contour and wrinkle of your brain.

What this means is that if the trends of the past 50 years continue, in 17 years’ time we will be able to upload an electronic replica of your mind on to a machine.
There will be two of you – one a flesh-and-blood animal, the other inside a computer’s circuits.

And if the trends hold fast beyond that, Kurzweil adds, by 2045 we will have a computer that is powerful enough to host every one of the eight billion minds on earth.

Carbon and silicon-based intelligence will merge to form a single global consciousness

Now the similarity between the alleged descriptions of how aliens function, and where humans are going, may just be a co-incidence.
A random chance, or....... an organised directed path

Because if they are transbiological, if they have crossed the singularity, then the only way for us to meet on equal ground, is to do the same

 

[Posey Gilbert]

For all those interested I have posts in other forums here.
They all have pictures and links to my site where I have many things posted that may answer some of your questions.
Check my profile here to find my other postings.
I nevertheless will try to answer all the great questions you post here.
Finally a place with real thinking people with intelligent questions.
Waah hoo!
Please feel free to contact me via my email from there.

 

[trainedobserver]

Well the wolf got hybridised by selective breeding to go from a house wrecking fiend to a guide dog for the blind.
Bonobo's and cetaceans have also had the uplift treatment.

The question wasn't has this occurred, because it has in the domestication and breeding of everything from lab rats to work dogs. The question was whether there is any indication that any of that was done in some altruistic sense toward the species being altered. None of it was or is. In every single case the beneficiary species is the one doing the mucking about, us. Inter-species communication experiments are not being done to benefit those species being studied. Not in the least.

Paradoxically new and fantastic medical breakthroughs are occurring simultaneously with new and catastrophic environmental destruction and contamination. Its one step forward two steps back in much of this. I wish I could share your optimism.