The Official Paracast Political Thread! — Part Three

[Gene Steinberg]

The article you link is the height of dumb. Jill Stein wants a recount in three states, not one. It will cost millions to do it properly.

What is Donald Trump afraid of when he continues to whine over nonexistent illegal alien votes? Oh, yes, he got that nonsense from a site run by another personality over at GCN.

At the end of the day, it doesn't hurt to recheck, especially in close races, regardless of the winner.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Oh, and for those who wonder how REAL voter fraud might be done, check this:

Greg Palast - Greg Palast, reporting for BBC, Harpers and more

 

[matthew1977]

Arrogance applies to those who assign themselves a high degree of importance. I'm not doing that. I'm not all that important to the scheme of things in this world. US presidents however are, and I'm assigning a high degree of importance to not voting for the greater evil in those choices. This is entirely rational. Nobody is perfect and therefore everyone except the amoral are to some degree evil, which means every vote will be about voting for the lesser of two evils, and in contrast to Trump, Hillary looks like Mother freakin' Theresa.

arrogance definition: proud in an unpleasant way and behaving as if you are better or more important than other people

aka.. stating people are not smart for not voting the way you voted...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

 

[SRL+]

Not to jump in here, but Randall is from Canada. Although, if Canadians would have been able to vote in the US election, there wouldn't be a lunatic headed for the White House.

 

[DaveM]

If Jill Stein really wanted to be fair, equal and honest, why doesn't she ask for recounts in the states where Clinton barely won over Trump? Is she trying to be fair to just Clinton and not the American people? She just happened by some coincidence to choose 3 key states that Clinton lost. Fair is fair!

 

[Gene Steinberg]

You mean like New Hampshire? It may well be that some of those cyber-experts who are raising questions about voting machine accuracy pointed to those states, states where Republicans are in charge and where there have been complaints about widespread voter suppression efforts that target minorities. Indeed, North Carolina, South Carolina and even Florida should have been included too.

It's not an issue of fairness. The candidate has the right to raise funds and request the recount. It's the results that matter. We can question motives or fairness all night long.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

And yet another blatant lie from Trump that's been exposed:

Donald Trump’s bogus claim that ‘millions of people’ voted illegally for Hillary Clinton

 

[DaveM]

You and I both know this recall won't affect anything other than to give disaffected voters something more to piss and moan about. My main questions is this... how much money did you pony up Gene to get to the bottom of the matter?

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Your response is non-responsive and, frankly, absurd.

I have no expectations one way or the other about this. But did you bother to read the link I provided about Greg Palast? Probably not.

 

[DaveM]

Your response is non-responsive and, frankly, absurd.

I have no expectations one way or the other about this. But did you bother to read the link I provided about Greg Palast? Probably not.

I believe my response is spot on. You just refuse to answer me.

 

[DaveM]

Your response is non-responsive and, frankly, absurd.

I have no expectations one way or the other about this. But did you bother to read the link I provided about Greg Palast? Probably not.

And no, I never read links you post. You are normally always in the right (or should I say left?)

 

[Gene Steinberg]

And no, I never read links you post. You are normally always in the right (or should I say left?)

Thank you for your admission that you have nothing useful to contribute to this discussion.

 

[Tyger]

Audits of the presidential elections should be a given imo. Had there been one in 2000, what a different world we would be living in. If the electorate no longer trusts the election process, then audits need to be routine, especially when it's razor thin margins of victory.

But there is something more important being demonstrated here: recall that Trump stated that the election was rigged if he didn't win, and that if he didn't win he suggested there would be rioting in the streets (I can't recall exactly his phrases). Trump was not talking about a legal and orderly process of a vote audit. He was making disquieting suggestions of violent push back - so much so that it filtered down to a student who feared that if Hillary won there would be men at the door with guns. That's not the way one pushes back on an election one doesn't trust in the US - what Jill Stein is doing is the way - and in a sense she is setting a precedent.

If Trump doesn't like an outcome - he needs to understand that one doesn't threaten physical disrule because it did not go his way. There are other avenues, like going the route of law - something he should know a lot about, in fact, since he has used the law to amass his fortune.

Anyway, interesting to see how many on the Trump side are unsettled by the recount, and how many on the Hillary side are saying nothing irregular will be found. Can it be any more peculiar?

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Don't forget that the U.S. Supreme Court put a stop to the 2000 recount. And one of those justices was a golfing buddy of the Bush family. That, in itself, should have been a reason for Justice Scalia to recuse himself.

It's reported that journalists who rechecked the votes later on found that Gore won.

And don't forget the tens of thousands of minority voters who were thrown off the rolls by the Florida Secretary of State for bogus reasons prior to the election. If even a fraction of them were allowed to vote, this would be a very different world now, especially in the Middle East.

 

[Tyger]

You are echoing my point, Gene.

For those interested in the on-going vote count, there is this site - LINK: 2016 National Popular Vote Tracker

Current numbers are -
2016 US Presidential ElectionPopular Vote (still being counted)
Hillary Clinton (D) 64,654,445 48.2%
Donald Trump (R) 62,418,792 46.5%

Difference is 2,235,653 - that's 2 million, two hundred thirty-five thousand, six hundred fifty-three votes.

This is a 1.8% margin - close to 2% - and that's with voter suppression.

Still counting. I think the count is due to end soon. The estimate is that Clinton will win the popular vote by @2.5 million - or over 2% of the vote. Is it possible that Hillary could pass 50% of the popular vote?

 

[Tyger]

There are some serious attempts underway - by Trump supporters - and Trump himself - to fog up the recount.

Here's Robert Reich on the matter -

Trump issued a flurry of tweets last night and early this morning, accusing Hillary Clinton of hypocrisy for joining Jill Stein’s recount in Wisconsin and potentially other states, since during the campaign Clinton had criticized Trump for suggesting he wouldn’t concede if she won.

Baloney, for 4 reasons:

1. The issue during the campaign wasn't whether Trump would forfeit his right to participate in recounts or contest a close result; it was whether he would commit to accepting the election result, even where the margin wasn’t even close. He said the election was going to be stolen from him regardless of what the actual result showed, claiming there would be massive election fraud even before it was even alleged to have occurred.

2. At an October 20 rally, Trump backed away from this and said he was only preserving his right to a recount in a close result. “If Al Gore or George Bush had agreed three weeks before the election to concede the results and waive their right to a legal challenge or a recount, then there would be no Supreme Court case and no Gore v. Bush." Well then, fine. He should have no trouble with the recount that Jill Stein and Hillary Clinton are now doing.

3. Trump won the election because he carried three critical Rust Belt states by about 1 point or less -- Wisconsin by 0.8 percent, Michigan by 0.2 percent and Pennsylvania by 1.1 percent. If Clinton had won by such close margins, it wouldn’t be unreasonable for Trump to participate in recounts in one or more of those states.

4. There’s also the delicate issue of Russia. U.S. intelligence officials have found that Russia hacked the Democratic National Committee computers, and had the capability of hacking into election computers. Trump and Putin have spoken positively about one another. Trump has suggested he wouldn’t come to the aid of a NATO country attacked by Russia. It’s not totally out of the question that Russia might have sought to alter the election results in these three Rust-Belt states.​

 

[SRL+]

You are echoing my point, Gene.

For those interested in the on-going vote count, there is this site - LINK: 2016 National Popular Vote Tracker

Current numbers are -
2016 US Presidential ElectionPopular Vote (still being counted)
Hillary Clinton (D) 64,654,445 48.2%
Donald Trump (R) 62,418,792 46.5%

Difference is 2,235,653 - that's 2 million, two hundred thirty-five thousand, six hundred fifty-three votes.

This is a 1.8% margin - close to 2% - and that's with voter suppression.

Still counting. I think the count is due to end soon. The estimate is that Clinton will win the popular vote by @2.5 million - or over 2% of the vote. Is it possible that Hillary could pass 50% of the popular vote?

Not so fast Tyger. The old orange faced rascal is back to his old habits, as if he ever stopped.
Trump's baseless assertions of voter fraud called 'stunning'
Did 3 million undocumented immigrants vote in 2016?
Let me attempt to answer the above question in saying that in Trump's world anything is possible, although, impractical.

 

[Randall]

Don't forget that the U.S. Supreme Court put a stop to the 2000 recount. And one of those justices was a golfing buddy of the Bush family. That, in itself, should have been a reason for Justice Scalia to recuse himself.

It's reported that journalists who rechecked the votes later on found that Gore won.

And don't forget the tens of thousands of minority voters who were thrown off the rolls by the Florida Secretary of State for bogus reasons prior to the election. If even a fraction of them were allowed to vote, this would be a very different world now, especially in the Middle East.

OK Gene, that's all fine, but I have to ask: I like your posts, but for some reason you don't like any of mine, but we seem to be on the same side here. What's that about? Do you just have a hard time "liking" other people's posts or what ... lol. I tend to like almost anybody who bothers to take the time to post a half decent opinion, even if it's different than mine, because at least they're showing some initiative.

But besides that, help me understand here: If all the lamebrain redneck whackos with the guns are the ones who voted for Trump, there's nothing the pacifist latte drinking intellectuals can do but complain. Am I right?

 

[Tyger]

Not sure what others are thinking, but imo what is going down is serious stuff. If the following is true, and according to Papantonio it is so, corporate media is now trying to take control of the internet. That is what they are now meeting with Trump about.

Hope that the recount shows Hillary the clear winner. Or hope the Electoral College does it's job and averts disaster. Or hope Trump is removed by the intricasies of the constitution. However, before that happens damage will have already been done.

Look around you - note what you see - because the world is about to radically shift. This country will not be the same as it was. Plenty of finger pointing to go around, I'm sure.

Here is Papantonio of the Ring of Fire. Troubling times ahead. In this link you can either listen to the video or read the transcript.

Papantonio: A Psycho Has Commandeered The Media
LINK: Papantonio: A Psycho Has Commandeered The Media - The Ring of Fire Network
TEXT: "Ring of Fire’s Mike Papantonio and Sam Seder discuss the private meetings President-Elect Trump has been having with corporate media conglomerates."

 

[Tyger]

The following link and text is from the "Dallas Morning News", no less.

I am reminded of acquaintances I have known across the years from the former Communist Bloc countries. I'm thinking of a couple from Romania - how they described living amongst informants (never knowing who was or wasn't) as they strove to have converse with a wider intellectual scope. I am thinking of how it goes down in China now - the laws against 'assembly' and the ever careful and watchful eye one must maintain in that country if one deviates in the slightest from the 'given ideology'. Informants abound and one risks one's freedom in countless ways. Sobering to consider.

What you — yes, you — can do to save America from tyranny
LINK: Learn about the man who gave his name to McKinney | Books | Dallas Newsing-history-can-save-america-tyranny

TEXT: "Americans are no wiser than the Europeans who saw democracy yield to fascism, Nazism or communism. Our one advantage is that we might learn from their experience. Now is a good time to do so.

Here are 20 lessons from across the fearful 20th century, adapted to the circumstances of today.

1. Do not obey in advance. Much of the power of authoritarianism is freely given. In times like these, individuals think ahead about what a more repressive government will want, and then start to do it without being asked. You've already done this, haven't you? Stop. Anticipatory obedience teaches authorities what is possible and accelerates unfreedom.

2. Defend an institution. Follow the courts or the media, or a court or a newspaper. Do not speak of "our institutions" unless you are making them yours by acting on their behalf. Institutions don't protect themselves. They go down like dominoes unless each is defended from the beginning.

3. Recall professional ethics. When the leaders of state set a negative example, professional commitments to just practice become much more important. It is hard to break a rule-of-law state without lawyers, and it is hard to have show trials without judges.

4. When listening to politicians, distinguish certain words. Look out for the expansive use of "terrorism" and "extremism." Be alive to the fatal notions of "exception" and "emergency." Be angry about the treacherous use of patriotic vocabulary.

5. Be calm when the unthinkable arrives. When the terrorist attack comes, remember that all authoritarians at all times either await or plan such events in order to consolidate power. Think of the Reichstag fire. The sudden disaster that requires the end of the balance of power, the end of opposition parties, and so on, is the oldest trick in the Hitlerian book. Don't fall for it.

6. Be kind to our language. Avoid pronouncing the phrases everyone else does. Think up your own way of speaking, even if only to convey that thing you think everyone is saying. (Don't use the internet before bed. Charge your gadgets away from your bedroom, and read.) What to read? Perhaps "The Power of the Powerless" by Václav Havel, 1984 by George Orwell, The Captive Mind by Czeslaw Milosz, The Rebel by Albert Camus, The Origins of Totalitarianism by Hannah Arendt, or Nothing is True and Everything is Possible by Peter Pomerantsev.

7. Stand out. Someone has to. It is easy, in words and deeds, to follow along. It can feel strange to do or say something different. But without that unease, there is no freedom. And the moment you set an example, the spell of the status quo is broken, and others will follow.

8. Believe in truth. To abandon facts is to abandon freedom. If nothing is true, then no one can criticize power, because there is no basis upon which to do so. If nothing is true, then all is spectacle. The biggest wallet pays for the most blinding lights.

9. Investigate. Figure things out for yourself. Spend more time with long articles. Subsidize investigative journalism by subscribing to print media. Realize that some of what is on your screen is there to harm you. Bookmark PropOrNot or other sites that investigate foreign propaganda pushes.

10. Practice corporeal politics. Power wants your body softening in your chair and your emotions dissipating on the screen. Get outside. Put your body in unfamiliar places with unfamiliar people. Make new friends and march with them.

11. Make eye contact and small talk. This is not just polite. It is a way to stay in touch with your surroundings, break down unnecessary social barriers, and come to understand whom you should and should not trust. If we enter a culture of denunciation, you will want to know the psychological landscape of your daily life.

12. Take responsibility for the face of the world. Notice the swastikas and the other signs of hate. Do not look away and do not get used to them. Remove them yourself and set an example for others to do so.

13. Hinder the one-party state. The parties that took over states were once something else. They exploited a historical moment to make political life impossible for their rivals. Vote in local and state elections while you can.

14. Give regularly to good causes, if you can. Pick a charity and set up autopay. Then you will know that you have made a free choice that is supporting civil society helping others doing something good.

15. Establish a private life. Nastier rulers will use what they know about you to push you around. Scrub your computer of malware. Remember that email is skywriting. Consider using alternative forms of the internet, or simply using it less. Have personal exchanges in person. For the same reason, resolve any legal trouble. Authoritarianism works as a blackmail state, looking for the hook on which to hang you. Try not to have too many hooks.

16. Learn from others in other countries. Keep up your friendships abroad, or make new friends abroad. The present difficulties here are an element of a general trend. And no country is going to find a solution by itself. Make sure you and your family have passports.

17. Watch out for the paramilitaries. When the men with guns who have always claimed to be against the system start wearing uniforms and marching around with torches and pictures of a Leader, the end is nigh. When the pro-Leader paramilitary and the official police and military intermingle, the game is over.

18. Be reflective if you must be armed. If you carry a weapon in public service, God bless you and keep you. But know that evils of the past involved policemen and soldiers finding themselves, one day, doing irregular things. Be ready to say no. (If you do not know what this means, contact the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum and ask about training in professional ethics.)

19. Be as courageous as you can. If none of us is prepared to die for freedom, then all of us will die in unfreedom.

20. Be a patriot. The incoming president is not. Set a good example of what America means for the generations to come. They will need it.

Timothy Snyder, a Yale history professor and historian of Eastern Europe, originally published this on Facebook. He is the author of "Black Earth: The Holocaust as History and Warning." ​