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The Official Paracast Political Thread! — Part Three

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From Michael Signer via Robert Reich -

Should conscientious electors decide against Donald Trump when they turn in their ballots December 19th? Michael Signer (below) has a credible argument they should. Constitutional history makes clear that the founders had three main purposes in designing the Electoral College.

1. Stop a demagogue from becoming president.

At the Constitutional Convention, arguing in support of the Electoral College, Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts said he was “against a popular election” forpresident because the people would be “misled by a few designing men.” In Federalist No. 68, Alexander Hamilton wrote that the electors would prevent those with “Talents for low intrigue, and the little arts of popularity” from becoming president. They would also stop anyone who would “convulse the community with any extraordinary or violent movements.”

Check one against Trump.

2. Stop foreign interference in an election.

The framers were extremely concerned about infiltration by rivals including Great Britain. In Federalist No. 68, Hamilton wrote that one major purpose of the Electoral College was to stop the “desire in foreign powers to gain an improper ascendant in our councils.” He said that the college would “Guard against all danger of this sort … with the most provident and judicious attention” from the electors.

Check two against Trump.

There’s incontrovertible evidence Russia interfered in the campaign by hacking the email accounts of top Democratic officials and cooperating with WikiLeaks’ parallel campaign to undermine Hillary Clinton campaign. Meanwhile, Trump has business entanglements in Russia and other foreign countries, the extent to which are unknown because Trump has not released his tax returns.

3. Prevent poor administration of government.

In Federalist No. 68. Hamilton wrote that “the true test of a good government is its aptitude and tendency to produce a good administration,” and for that reason, he said, the electors should be “able to estimate the share which the executive in every government must necessarily have in its good or ill administration.”

Check three against Trump, who has no government experience and whose character and temperament – as revealed both from his personal history and his campaign – are arguably inconsistent with good government.

4. One additional factor: Hillary Clinton is on track to win the popular vote by over 2.3 million votes — nearly 5 times Al Gore’s narrow margin over George W. Bush in 2000.

Modern-day conservatives favor so-called “originalist” understandings of the Constitution, looking to history and to the original texts of our founding documents for guidance. On this basis, electors have every ground for refusing to make Donald Trump president of the United States.
 
What's fascinating is that you just happily elected the minister of truth.

In an Orwellian sense.

You’re shockingly close to the truth, as Canadians are able to detect a disturbance in the force.

The Entire Internet Will Be Archived In Canada to Protect It From Trump
https://newrepublic.com/minutes/139055/internet-archive-building-back-up-defend-trump-canada
The only free speech the windbag is accustomed to is his own.

Trump proposes two illegal responses to flag burning

The Trumpsters simply echo the denial their delusional leader has displayed over, and over again. That is why it’s simply wonderful to deconstruct their belief system. Thus far, they have very little to offer whilst in the process of being played by the one who is going to save them.
 
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From Robert Reich - in case anyone is unclear about what is taking place. Anyone care to argue this?

Trump ran as a populist but will govern as an oligarch. For Treasury Secretary he’s naming private-equity investor and former Goldman Sachs executive Steven Mnuchin.

When campaigning Trump frequently blasted Wall Street’s big banks — Goldman Sachs in particular — and promised to reinstate the Glass-Steagall Act that once separated retail and investment banks. He repeatedly claimed the system is rigged, that hedge fund managers are “getting away with murder,” that he’d “tax Wall Street," that Hillary Clinton was too cozy with the banks, and that her vice presidential nominee Tim Kaine was “owned by the banks.” He closed his campaign with an ad bashing Goldman Sachs.

Now he’s opting for someone who was deeply involved in running the bank that was at the heart of the subprime housing bust that led to the bailout of the Street.

Trump is well on the way to having the wealthiest cabinet in memory. Last week he named Michigan billionaire Betsy DeVos his pick for education secretary. He’s also expected to nominate industrialist billionaire Wilbur Ross to lead the Commerce Department. Goodbye, populism. Hello, oligarchy.
 
Fascinating that this 'correction' takes place just before the audit.

Anyone, please feel free to debate the facts here. I am interested.

20% of Trump's Wisconsin Win Evaporates Due to "Error"
TEXT: "Published on Nov 28, 2016: Even before the Wisconsin recount takes place, Donald Trump's margin of victory drops 17% due to errors in three Outagamie County precincts."

Discrepancies in unofficial Outagamie County election results explained
LINK:
Discrepancies in unofficial Outagamie County election results explained
TEXT Excerpted: "In four out of almost a hundred wards, the number of votes cast in the presidential race were greater than the number of ballots voted, that’s according to unofficial election results."

LINK: 2016 National Popular Vote Tracker
 
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You’re shockingly close to the truth, as Canadians are able to detect a disturbance in the force.

The Entire Internet Will Be Archived In Canada to Protect It From Trump
The only free speech the windbag is accustomed to is his own.

Trump proposes two illegal responses to flag burning

The Trumpsters simply echo the denial their delusional leader has displayed over, and over again. That is why it’s simply wonderful to deconstruct their belief system. Thus far, they have very little to offer whilst in the process of being played by the one who is going to save them.
It's not just Canada.

It's the rest of the free world.

How can you not see it?
 
TOR activated; . Set to Canada or Australia or Netherlands or the Solomons or Russia even.
Welcome to it.

As long as you yanks realize that we don't have the same ideas about free speech as you do. Most of us up here don't think freedom of speech includes being able to spew whatever racist or sexist garbage you feel like because you're free.

It doesn't cover hate speech. And I think that's the right thing to do.
 
So at the risk of being fair and balanced, this sounds like good news for Trump:

You are being rather generous considering 1000 jobs were saved out of 2000 employees. Carrier’s parent company, defense contractor, United Technologies’ was under pressure to mitigate the fallout from unfavorable press, and the possibility of losing lucrative defense contracts. However, there is little doubt that Trump will trumpet his triumph, as political symbolism.

No play ball, no lucrative defense contracts. In the final analysis, the US consumer & taxpayer will likely make up the difference for Carrier’s lost revenue in driving up the cost of their products, or, in federal budget cuts for various programs. The possibility also exists for tariffs being placed on imported goods making up the difference, which then again may result in higher prices for the consumer.

After all, in the end it’s about shareholder dividends.

It's not just Canada.

It's the rest of the free world.

How can you not see it?

I see it all right, just failed to mention it.
 
You are being rather generous considering 1000 jobs were saved out of 2000 employees. Carrier’s parent company, defense contractor, United Technologies’ was under pressure to mitigate the fallout from unfavorable press, and the possibility of losing lucrative defense contracts. However, there is little doubt that Trump will trumpet his triumph, as political symbolism.

No play ball, no lucrative defense contracts. In the final analysis, the US consumer & taxpayer will likely make up the difference for Carrier’s lost revenue in driving up the cost of their products, or, in federal budget cuts for various programs. The possibility also exists for tariffs being placed on imported goods making up the difference, which then again may result in higher prices for the consumer.
It also serves as a warning for other large companies with government contracts.

The unfortunate thing is that they can give incentives to smaller companies to keep employees in the U.S. But they concentrate on the big ones instead. Or at least do the minimum for effect. But at least a little was accomplished. Compare that to Trump's claim that he saved a Ford plant, which he, according to Ford, did not.
 
Welcome to it.

As long as you yanks realize that we don't have the same ideas about free speech as you do. Most of us up here don't think freedom of speech includes being able to spew whatever racist or sexist garbage you feel like because you're free.

It doesn't cover hate speech. And I think that's the right thing to do.


There was a time when that statement would have rankled me a little bit...even though I'd never take advantage of that "freedom"...but I realized then as I do now that allowing it to go unchecked is tantamount to taking away ones dignity and humanity and it only will lead to blowback as $πit tends to run downhill and soon you have everybody at everybody's throat because the one biblical sentiment we don't embrace is to turn the other cheek.

I have to wonder what Bannon (or anybody who follows his views) who seems to have no problem considering inflammatory hate speech as being protected as part of the first amendment feels if flag burning which is just as (which I have as much use for as hate speech)should be given the same consideration /protection.


Until such time as our Supreme Court fleshes out first right amendment rights I can only grudgingly accept both and tell all involved what I mentioned elsewhere

Suck it Up unless your right to life is affected.
 
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That's the nature of the beast I'm afraid.

The exacerbation of this division is a recent development; though stark political divisions have always been around, these divisions have never been so pervasive, in every conversation from politics, to education, to mass-shootings: never have the adherents of opposing political opinions been so intransigent, emotional, prejudiced, irrational…

Why Politics Are So Divisive

We are probably hard wired for it though.

Neotribalism - Wikipedia


Although I never knew that term existed its concept doesn't surprise me in the least, I might even add a couple more prefixes to it. Micro Neo tribalism or Niche Neo tribalism because the fact is that when it comes down to how we tend to identify ourselves the field is getting broader and broader.
 
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An update on the Carrier deal: The company is supposedly getting big tax incentives from the state of Indiana (where the incoming vice president was governor) to keep some of their employees. So, yes, bribery works.

Besides, it's not as if Carrier is the first company to do such a thing that causes governments to intervene.
 
Check this brain stem out, banned from Delta Airlines for all eternity. If Trump Airlines had not gone belly-up in careening into a mountain of debt , the supporter would likely have been awarded with first class seating. Mr. Happy Go Lucky’s tee shirt says it all as emblazoned with “gas monkey garage” in adding just enough class & style. Follow the link to the Facebook page for the unedited version. WATCH: Trump Supporter Goes on Rant on Flight Leading to Apology From Delta - Delta: Abusive Trump supporter is banned for life
Perfect. He's living Trump supporter meme generator ... lol.
 
Unfortunately, only the electoral college counts. But with an expected two point margin when all is counted, the polls were right after all. Well except for a few states, such as Michigan and Wisconsin. It was close in PA before election day.

I expect nothing from the recount, but it wouldn't take anything more than a couple of hundred thousand uncounted absentee ballots to really set things afire. Not that it's going to happen, so we have to enjoy the reality show for the next four years, and hope we don't lose our health insurance, Medicare and Social Security. Remember, the Republicans want to privatize everything and put them in private industry, so the plutocrats can profit from our misery.
 
Now back to Carrier: So the final story is that Mike Pence stayed on as governor of Indiana so he could approve funds from a state fund to give Carrier a $700,000 bribe — er — incentive, to keep some jobs there. Understand that Trump had no power of persuasion or any other power to make this happen. It was a key reason to keep Pence on board to make good on this promise.

It also demonstrates what states do routinely to attract and keep business. Of course, the taxpayers pay because the money doesn't always match what the companies give back in employment and tax payments. So less money is left to fund state operations.

But Trump will tout this to the skies to demonstrate his skills as a negotiator — not!
 
Unfortunately, only the electoral college counts. But with an expected two point margin when all is counted, the polls were right after all. Well except for a few states, such as Michigan and Wisconsin. It was close in PA before election day.
Yes, but still mesmerizing to watch the numbers increase. In one day (from yesterday to today) Trump's numbers increased by 42,219 and Hillary's by a bracing 98,815
I expect nothing from the recount
Why is that?
but it wouldn't take anything more than a couple of hundred thousand uncounted absentee ballots to really set things afire. Not that it's going to happen
Afire is right - and truth be told, I would not envy Hillary were she compelled to step into that firestorm.
so we have to enjoy the reality show for the next four years, and hope we don't lose our health insurance, Medicare and Social Security. Remember, the Republicans want to privatize everything and put them in private industry, so the plutocrats can profit from our misery.
But it's so much more at risk. Yes, we will likely lose all our social safety nets - but so much more will be lost as the final ransacking of the country takes place. This really is the 'fall of Rome' in a different kind of way. It's not clear to me that we will ever get the country back. Yes we will fight the take-over but what will emerge will be very different - and it will be a couple of generations down. Climate Change will force a radical shift in how we organize ourselves. I think the states will arise as the viable local-control entity, with regions becoming important, more than national identities. Just a hunch from my reading, and from what I understand, regarding the impact of the coming climate displacement.
 
Why is that?
The real fix is voter suppression, where they pull stunts to keep minorities and lower income people from voting. That's the reason why some state voter ID laws have been overturned in the courts. But they didn't overturn enough, and it's quite possible that millions of voters were excluded, and by demographics, these are mostly the people who would have voted Democratic. Some of this happened in 2000 in Florida. Look it up (you heard this on Thom Hartmann's show, Tyger).
 
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