The Roswell Slides Have Been Leaked Online

[DissectionStalker]

DS, what do you hope to accomplish here regarding your own situation vis a vis the FBI's interest in and examination of your computers? Heidi and Mike and the members of the other forum you also attempted to use (who came on here some months ago) seem to have collectively understood what you're on about. For your own sake it seems that you should follow Mike's advice about keeping a low online profile rather than arguing with people here and making claims you cannot talk about much less support.

Cut the crap Constance. Both you and Heidi are so unbalanced you both have accused me of STALKING you on this forum for merely replying to some of your posts. Both of you have been too emotionally upset with my posts in reply to yours or Heidi's to engage in rational debate, so you pull that kind of "stalker" BS. Did you also go out tracking or stalking me over the internet like Heidi obviously did?

Do you know the people that work at the other forum know those three people that attacked me over there and two of them here know these same people are trolls and mentally unbalanced?

 

[Constance]

Cut the crap Constance. Both you and Heidi are so unbalanced you both have accused me of STALKING you on this forum for merely replying to some of your posts. Both of you have been too emotionally upset with my posts in reply to yours or Heidi's to engage in rational debate, so you pull that kind of "stalker" BS.

Did you also go out tracking or stalking me over the internet like Heidi obviously did?

Dreamer. Setting aside that I'd have no interest in doing so, I have no computer skills whatever. Lol, I need the help of computer techs just to download or remove software.

Do you know the people that work at the other forum know those three people that attacked me over there and two of them here know these same people are trolls and mentally unbalanced?

I don't know that and did not follow the thread here some months ago in which people from that other forum participated. None of this is interesting to me. I think that you are demonstrating serious signs of paranoia at this point and that you should seek some support in dealing with it. I'm now going to drop back out of this current thread and continue avoiding you in the future. If you are as innocent as you claim, I wish you well. In fact, even if you are a hacker I wish you well in general, though not in further hacking adventures if you have in fact indulged in that kind of behavior in the past. For your own sake and for the general good, recognize the value of personal privacy for yourself and respect that right in others.

 

[DissectionStalker]

I don't know that and did not follow the thread here some months ago in which people from that other forum participated. None of this is interesting to me.

BS. You posted about this before in this thread and you are online buddies with Heidi, and you click "the like" buttons when Heidi has posted slanderous lies directed at me. No Constance. You can't run from that after you plant your silly rabbit paranoia idea on me with your previous post above.

Btw, you have posted 102 times to this thread since the criminal matters were started, so you joined this thread coincidentally exactly when my troubles started.

You Constance, and Heidi, and Mike have pounced on me multiple times aggressively in this thread, and all three of you click "the like" buttons quite often in support of your positions that have opposed my ideas.

Adam Dew is a scam artist. He committed fraud. Mike supported Adam Dew. Fool.

Here's what Gene posted at Kevin Randle's blog:

Gene Steinberg said...The key point here is that the claim that they couldn't do it in two or three years is absurd. Yes, I agree that it may take some testing to figure out the best software and extra guesswork to pick out the text.

But two or three years with no results whatever? Give me a break!

 

[Gene Steinberg]

This is a thread about the Roswell Slides, not about DissectionStalker and his apparent troubles. Let's get off it please — now!

 

[Heidi Lemmer]

It's your forum Gene, wish you the best.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

DissectionStalker is taking a short hiatus, so let's move on to the real topic that's relevant to this thread.

 

[SolarSailor]

Where does ufology go from here? Is it time to put roswell on the shelf? It seems that the more time that is invested in Roswell, the more it eludes the ufology community. These slides have probably only added to the great mythology that surrounds the truth of what happened. Its like it is its own meme.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Drake_the_Gilliland]

I think it's best that the big names in Ufology ignore it and let it pass, as I might sooner or later. Of cource, we are a few years away now from the next Big Dumb Thing. Anyone wanna guess what that will be? I say its an actual body, but it obviously won't be one.

 

[mike]

I never "supported" my "friend" Adam Dew.

The public record is there for all to see, my stance was simply that we shouldnt by default call fake (on this or any case) until we examine the evidence.

Its a principle in law thats served us well as a society

I was always happy for this to be PROVEN a fake as it has been. Indeed as i predicted all along once the hi res files were available it was likely that internet slueths would bust it wide open as they have in so many other cases in the past.

The I-Sherlocks have done what they do, and the case is proven to be a hoax, and Adam a hoaxer.

Sadly yet another hoax only reinforces the natural tendancy to call hoax on any new cases that will spring up.

Personally i will resist that knee jerk reaction and continue to judge each case on its own merits and with an open mind.

We shouldnt become so jaded by this that our default position is "HOAX" everytime a new case pops up, i think once you get to this stage you may as well walk away from the field and take up lawn bowls or something.

 

[Burnt State]

The major problem with ufology is its inability to police itself or create a sound set of theories, methodologies and way forward. If we continue to take the "wait and see" approach then we might as well prepare ourselves for more alien bodies to be autopsied, more fake Bigfoot bodies that came right out of spaceships for sale and further slide proofs of ET. It's ufology that needs an autopsy and this was the moment.

Many sound strains of criticism from ufologists far and wide tried to police the May 5th controversy by pointing out the folly of it all from the get go. That wasn't listened to and now the way forward is to forgive & forget and create many a loophole for snakes to slither through.

What should be learned here is that strong critical voices is the best, reasonable way forward to shape a more respectable discipline out of the ashes of hoaxers, profiteers and believers. Consider this: if May fifth had been stopped by all reputable ufologists who would never sign their name to such a fiasco without personally seeing the evidence, would ufology be in better or worse shape right now?

 

[DaveM]

The major problem with ufology is its inability to police itself or create a sound set of theories, methodologies and way forward. If we continue to take the "wait and see" approach then we might as well prepare ourselves for more alien bodies to be autopsied, more fake Bigfoot bodies that came right out of spaceships for sale and further slide proofs of ET. It's ufology that needs an autopsy and this was the moment.

Many sound strains of criticism from ufologists far and wide tried to police the May 5th controversy by pointing out the folly of it all from the get go. That wasn't listened to and now the way forward is to forgive & forget and create many a loophole for snakes to slither through.

What should be learned here is that strong critical voices is the best, reasonable way forward to shape a more respectable discipline out of the ashes of hoaxers, profiteers and believers. Consider this: if May fifth had been stopped by all reputable ufologists who would never sign their name to such a fiasco without personally seeing the evidence, would ufology be in better or worse shape right now?

What I wonder Burnt, is when a lucrative payday is dangled in front of these 'reputable ufologists' and they snap at the bait. Do they become untrustworthy or do they lay low and reappear after the smoke clears and most people have forgotten these events?

 

[Drake_the_Gilliland]

What I wonder Burnt, is when a lucrative payday is dangled in front of these 'reputable ufologists' and they snap at the bait. Do they become untrustworthy or do they lay low and reappear after the smoke clears and most people have forgotten these events?

If they're multiple offenders then I say they should be tossed out, if not black listed, especially if Ufology is looking to expand its "audience" and reach the mainstream.

 

[Wade]

I never "supported" my "friend" Adam Dew.

The public record is there for all to see, my stance was simply that we shouldnt by default call fake (on this or any case) until we examine the evidence.

Its a principle in law thats served us well as a society

I was always happy for this to be PROVEN a fake as it has been. Indeed as i predicted all along once the hi res files were available it was likely that internet slueths would bust it wide open as they have in so many other cases in the past.

The I-Sherlocks have done what they do, and the case is proven to be a hoax, and Adam a hoaxer.

Sadly yet another hoax only reinforces the natural tendancy to call hoax on any new cases that will spring up.

Personally i will resist that knee jerk reaction and continue to judge each case on its own merits and with an open mind.

We shouldnt become so jaded by this that our default position is "HOAX" everytime a new case pops up, i think once you get to this stage you may as well walk away from the field and take up lawn bowls or something.

you needen't explain yourself to anyone here, Mike and you are of course right one shouldn't have a knee jerk reaction when events such as this pop up but i just felt from the start that this whole non-event was going to sink into the quagmire of UFO history and TBH i had never really even heard of the Stills before this issue popped up on my radar earlier this year. maybe it was instinct but even having someone like Richard Dolan take up the cause couldn't convince me that this was ever going to turn out into anything other than what it did.

 

[Han]

My Mummy told me if you don't have anything nice to say, then don't say anything.

I am really struggling to convey my true feelings on this whole episode and what it represents to me, so I will just try regardless:

We are all different, but we are all here: that is to say that we remain interested in spite of the BS.
Sceptics and believers alike.
If I reflect on my own behaviour, I know it was certainly affected by the slides, I spent a good amount of time trying to find out all sorts of different information about mummies, museums and display configurations.
What I am trying to say is that I invested energy, and when I ask myself why? the answer is because I felt a responsibility to my ancestors.
My view is most likely radically different from most but I won't accept that it's abnormal, especially given that it seems so natural to me: but then that's the point, we can only go by what we believe.

I am the first to admit that our origins as human beings are shrouded in mystery, but I am convinced that this is a result of our nature, and that nature is pretty brutal.

We need to start appreciating the power that both sides wield, people are getting hurt along the way.
That is why I will always appreciate the work of the skeptics and believers alike, but don't get believers and hoaxers mixed up, they are very different.
I have nearly posted 1000 messages on this forum, and during this time I have been forced to reconsider many things, in short my mind has been introduced to new realities, whether they are mine or not.
We all have our "conclusions" and agendas, but let us remember that we are dealing with the unquantifiable here, the whole point is the truth is up to us, I can say with the utmost confidence that sceptics accept that "experiencers" truly believe in what they "experience" so in short it is real to them, why can't we try to work out why, rather than argue about our own favourite "case" or "hoax", at the end of the day the wheat needs separating from the chaff, but we are not even harvesting because we are too busy arguing about the meaning of something we cant see or hold.

If you want a metaphor the paranormal is like love or hate in that it can't be measured and does not follow "logical" patterns, but it still has a "real" bearing on our behaviour, and therefore our reality.

I hope the subject is sufficiently changed and we can focus on looking forward to the future.
but for me personally in terms of the Roswell "slides" its a matter of don't call us we'll call you. (as in a failed audition)

Peace and best wishes and thanks to everyone that make the Paracast what it is.

 

[Bob Watson]

from Richard Dolans FB page

One interesting element about the current controversy is the theological-like zeal of certain people. What is it, I wonder, that has caused such anger, such fury? It is one thing for disagreements to occur, but I can only smile at those who would consider being wrong about something to be an actionable offense. My goodness, if I were to be ostracized for every time I’ve been wrong about something, I would have been living under a rock many years ago.

Everyone is wrong at times, sometime even on matters that are important (of which the current controversy doesn’t even qualify, despite the many protestations). And here is a shocker: I reserve the right to be wrong about things in the future. That is part of life. You go into something unknown, and sometimes you get it right, sometimes not. Sometimes you handle it perfectly, sometimes not. Those of us interested in UFOs are in a field with multiple layers of mystery. In the first place, it is intrinsically difficult, and (in my view) the product of a civilization that is well ahead of our own. In addition, it has been dominated by official denial and secrecy, making that mystery even more difficult to penetrate. By its very nature, we will always be struggling with this mystery, grappling with it in darkness for the most part. That is our condition.

It seems to me that the first rule in such a situation is to maintain our curiosity, realizing that without it, we would never be willing to ask questions. Second, bravery in our investigations, which includes by its nature a willingness to make a false step. Finally, we must retain integrity and honesty in our conclusions, which means changing them when needed. Those of us who are genuinely interested in this mystery should remember this.

I am aware that there are those who are disappointed with me over my connection to the recent event in Mexico City. Some are even angry. I have already discussed my position on this matter on Facebook and Richard Dolan Press. Critics may think what they want; I am satisfied with my actions, and that is all that matters to me. I am not here to prove anything to anyone about myself, and will continue to do my work to the best of my ability.

I should add to anyone who hasn't been paying attention that I never at any point endorsed the slides as representing something extraterrestrial. Even when I felt they were compelling, I maintained that before they were considered evidence, the arguments supporting them needed further examination. [additional edit here: After they were released, that is exactly what they got.]

Such controversies, even the current vitriolic campaign, always pass away. They are inevitable bumps in the road. The main quarry still lies ahead, and that is the greatest mystery of our age. This is a fascinating time to be involved in UFO research. I know that those of us who are genuinely interested in engaging that mystery will continue to support each other in that endeavor. The rest will simply fall away along the journey.


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[DaveM]

The major problem with ufology is its inability to police itself or create a sound set of theories, methodologies and way forward. If we continue to take the "wait and see" approach then we might as well prepare ourselves for more alien bodies to be autopsied, more fake Bigfoot bodies that came right out of spaceships for sale and further slide proofs of ET. It's ufology that needs an autopsy and this was the moment.

Many sound strains of criticism from ufologists far and wide tried to police the May 5th controversy by pointing out the folly of it all from the get go. That wasn't listened to and now the way forward is to forgive & forget and create many a loophole for snakes to slither through.

What should be learned here is that strong critical voices is the best, reasonable way forward to shape a more respectable discipline out of the ashes of hoaxers, profiteers and believers. Consider this: if May fifth had been stopped by all reputable ufologists who would never sign their name to such a fiasco without personally seeing the evidence, would ufology be in better or worse shape right now?

What I wonder Burnt, is when a lucrative payday is dangled in front of these 'reputable ufologists' and they snap at the bait. Do they become untrustworthy or do they lay low and reappear after the smoke clears and most people have forgotten these events?

from Richard Dolans FB page

One interesting element about the current controversy is the theological-like zeal of certain people. What is it, I wonder, that has caused such anger, such fury? It is one thing for disagreements to occur, but I can only smile at those who would consider being wrong about something to be an actionable offense. My goodness, if I were to be ostracized for every time I’ve been wrong about something, I would have been living under a rock many years ago.

Everyone is wrong at times, sometime even on matters that are important (of which the current controversy doesn’t even qualify, despite the many protestations). And here is a shocker: I reserve the right to be wrong about things in the future. That is part of life. You go into something unknown, and sometimes you get it right, sometimes not. Sometimes you handle it perfectly, sometimes not. Those of us interested in UFOs are in a field with multiple layers of mystery. In the first place, it is intrinsically difficult, and (in my view) the product of a civilization that is well ahead of our own. In addition, it has been dominated by official denial and secrecy, making that mystery even more difficult to penetrate. By its very nature, we will always be struggling with this mystery, grappling with it in darkness for the most part. That is our condition.

It seems to me that the first rule in such a situation is to maintain our curiosity, realizing that without it, we would never be willing to ask questions. Second, bravery in our investigations, which includes by its nature a willingness to make a false step. Finally, we must retain integrity and honesty in our conclusions, which means changing them when needed. Those of us who are genuinely interested in this mystery should remember this.

I am aware that there are those who are disappointed with me over my connection to the recent event in Mexico City. Some are even angry. I have already discussed my position on this matter on Facebook and Richard Dolan Press. Critics may think what they want; I am satisfied with my actions, and that is all that matters to me. I am not here to prove anything to anyone about myself, and will continue to do my work to the best of my ability.

I should add to anyone who hasn't been paying attention that I never at any point endorsed the slides as representing something extraterrestrial. Even when I felt they were compelling, I maintained that before they were considered evidence, the arguments supporting them needed further examination. [additional edit here: After they were released, that is exactly what they got.]

Such controversies, even the current vitriolic campaign, always pass away. They are inevitable bumps in the road. The main quarry still lies ahead, and that is the greatest mystery of our age. This is a fascinating time to be involved in UFO research. I know that those of us who are genuinely interested in engaging that mystery will continue to support each other in that endeavor. The rest will simply fall away along the journey.


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This is why Paul Kimball calls Dolan the 'Teflon Ufologist.' The crap will keep rolling off him to his followers. You keep thinking the way you do, Richard. It wasn't that you were merely wrong. You took payment ($$$) for your involvement.

Others avoided going to Mexico City but you threw caution to the wind just to fill your bank account with some pesos. I am glad your conscious is clear. On to the next ufo conference for you.

 

[mike]

you needen't explain yourself to anyone here, Mike and you are of course right one shouldn't have a knee jerk reaction when events such as this pop up but i just felt from the start that this whole non-event was going to sink into the quagmire of UFO history and TBH i had never really even heard of the Stills before this issue popped up on my radar earlier this year. maybe it was instinct but even having someone like Richard Dolan take up the cause couldn't convince me that this was ever going to turn out into anything other than what it did.

Cheers mate,
Perhaps my perspective is partly because im in the fire brigade, i get the boy who cried wolf dynamic but in fire and rescue no matter how many times we get a false alarm we cant ever ignore the next one.

Gene makes a great point in this months newsletter, this genre has had a long run, and yet for all the interest and all the effort researchers put into it, we still have very little to show for it.

And of course everytime someone runs a hoax, aka cries wolf the natural tendancy is for the observers to become jaded, to become inured to anything new that pops up.

But just as in that cautionary tale of the wolf, if we let that happen then when the wolf does turn up, we miss it.

Thats the aspect i find a bit disturbing, that before we even get a chance to actually fact check a particular case, it gets written off as a hoax.

I'm more than satisfied this one has been busted wide open, but on the merits or lack thereof of the actual case, not because there have been previous hoax's

That process is one of those ism's like sexism or racism. A women ripped me off, all women are nasty. A black guy stole from my car, all black guys are theives.

We have to strip down each case on its own merits, not say every case thus far has been a hoax, this new case must ergo be a hoax.

As i said once we get locked into that mindset, We may as well walk away and find a new topic to interest us, we've stopped asking questions and only have preconceived answers to apply to the mystery that is UFO's

Me ? i'll continue to look up at that starry sky, with my hard wired sense of wonder. I would hate to lose that, ive had it for as long as i can remember

 

[Bob Watson]

here is why Stanton Friedman did NOT go see the slides!

I could find no convincing information that there is any connection between the slides and Roswell... I don’t want to appear to add legitimacy by my presence in Mexico City in the absence of serious evidence of the slides being what is being claimed they are.
I keep being asked my views about the so-called “Roswell” Slides. So, let me summarize my position. I have tried to obtain as much information as possible and responded with interest when at the International UFO Congress in Scottsdale, Arizona, in Mid-February, I was interviewed by journalist Jaime Maussan of Mexico City who has arranged for a huge event focused on the slides. I recall the so called Roswell Autopsy which turned out to be a fiasco. I had spoken with Ray Santilli over the phone, checked on a number of his claims which turned out to be false, met with him twice in England and even had some comments distributed at his big press conference.
Jaime invited me to attend the May 5, Mexico City, conference as had Don Schmitt. My expenses would be paid. My first thought was that since I would be asked about my views, as the original civilian investigator of the Roswell crashed saucer event, it would be nice to have first hand information. I read as much as I could, positive and negative. I have not held copies of the slides. I could find no convincing information that there is any connection between the slides and Roswell. How would an outsider gain access to the real bodies? I worked under security for 14 years and have been to classified facilities in New Mexico. The barriers are tough. I have seen no specific data to convince me that these are phony. But that doesn’t establish a connection with Roswell events. Yes, I am still convinced that alien spacecraft with bodies on board crashed near Corona, in the Plains of San Augustin, and near Aztec. But I don’t want to appear to add legitimacy by my presence in Mexico City in the absence of serious evidence of the slides being what is being claimed they are. Absence of evidence is NOT evidence of absence and I have a large “gray” basket.
Stanton Friedman

 

[Wade]

There's due diligence and then there's due diligence

But still it wasn't all that long ago that Stanton dismissed James Carrion's work on ghost rockets without having look at it at least initially.

 

[Wade]

I thought Richard 's FB post was reasonable and well thought out and even correct ...to a point..I would have even gone along with it because I didn't even have very strong feelings on the whole affair as misguided as it seemed, but that whole blurred placard aspect more than anything else left a bad impression on me, it made me think that the people involved in it must take the rest of us for dunces. As I mentioned earlier if the wording on the placard was known and if they really felt they had something, then fall back, switch gears a bit and question the veracity of the initial identification of the original find as it probably was ascertained some time ago, but having said all that there was two "ifs" in that scenario that needs to be dealt with.