The Roswell Slides Have Been Leaked Online

[Constance]

I need a clarification here.. the mummy in the roswell slides..
Was NOT in the million dollar museum?

I haven't seen any indication that it was. But who knows?

 

[George Wingfield]

Whitley Streiber, Jaime Maussan, and Linda Moulton Howe allege that American intelligence placed an alien body in a museum with a false placard in order to test the public's reaction.

They don't dispute what the placard says. Whitley himself was able to deblur it.

Jaime says that if the placard were unveiled prior to the event, he would have gone through with it anyway as the body itself is anomalous.

I'm having some difficulty keeping up with all these claims and counterclaims and who believes quite what at each stage of this Roswell Slides farce. I take it, ww, from what you say that Whitley, Jaime and Linda are declaring that the corpse depicted in the Roswell Slides is a GENUINE ALIEN body but that a false blurred placard saying that it was the body of a mummified child had been substituted in the museum setting where the mummified alien had been put.

If that is what they are claiming, I suggest that exactly the reverse situation is true. I suggest that the corpse in the original picture was indeed Alien MATILDA, a carefully constructed anatomically incorrect (that is, incorrect for humans) dummy which deceived several experts who Jaime Maussan got to examine higher resolution versions of the picture. If that is the true scenario I can see little doubt that the "anomalous" dummy (meant to be a replica of a "genuine" Roswell Alien) was the work of our friends Lundberg and Dickinson just as Alien HILDA was.

One unanswered question then is who wrote the (initially) blurred message on the placard saying it was a mummy. Many of those who say this message was always there from the time the "dead creature" was actually photographed (whenever that was) seem quite unaware that images like this can be digitally altered to show whatever the hoaxer(s) want you to see and this can be done at any time. When these images first appeared (as fairly low resolution versions of the images) on certain websites they didn't necessarily carry the mummy message or any message at all. That could have been added by the hoaxer(s) at a later stage. Any image taken from the internet these days cannot necessarily be trusted and it may very well have been digitally altered.

Although I've suggested all along that Jaime Maussan was well aware this whole thing was a carefully prepared hoax which he commissioned himself and probably paid big bucks for, there is also the possibility that he was deliberately scammed by whoever produced the Roswell Slides in the first place. Rumors of the existence of such slides may well have been dangled in front of him during 2014 and after negotiations on the internet he may have shelled out $$$$$$ for the images gaining control of them in good time for his UFO Special Event in Mexico City on May 5th. If that scenario is correct, Maussan is a dupe rather than the prime villain in all this and perhaps we should even feel just a tiny bit sorry for him.

 

[George Wingfield]

George Wingfield is much better placed than me to provide information about Armen Victorian. My interest in Armen Victorian is focused on his contact with members of the so-called Aviary since Armen Victorian was one of the first researchers to publish allegations in relation to that group. However, tracing the history of Armen Victorian's investigation backwards, it seems that George Wingfield was the one that provided relevant names to Armen Victorian. In a conference speech in Leeds in 1992, Armen Victorian mentioned (at 4 minutes 55 seconds into his presentation) that he had received a fax from George Wingfield which gave relevant names, prompting his contact with members of the Aviary (some of which he recorded, e.g. his telephone call to Ron Pandolfi of the CIA).

To: Isaac and Constance

I can’t really give you much help as regards Armen Victorian (a.k.a. Henry Azadehdal and several other aliases). He was variously said to be an Armenian, a Syrian, or I don’t quite know what. I once went to a British UFO conference where some researcher was giving a lecture on Men-in-Black which I thought had gone out of fashion back in the 1960s in the days of John Keel’s “Mothman Prophecies”. Half way through this lecture, while being shown a series of blurry photographs the lecturer had taken by zooming in on a suspicious looking character on a street somewhere, it dawned on me that this MIB was none other than Armen Victorian.

He first contacted me as a result of an article I’d written pointing out the activities of certain circlefakers like (I think) Irving and Schnabel. When I told him that Schnabel had CIA connections he offered to investigate these suspicious characters which I encouraged him to do despite his being a suspicious character himself. He certainly implied that he had done contract work for the CIA and had worked for several other intelligence agencies too. Here –although I didn’t know the term at the time—was another Mirage Man who saw a secret conspiracy by the CIA to trash the crop circle phenomenon and discredit the researchers.

Posing as an African journalist Victorian telephoned Rob Irving and these two then told each other a whole series of untruths and red herrings. These involved plots and counterplots, conspiracies, and undercover missions by real or imaginary people in pursuit of supposed agendas involving crop circles and UFOs. All the smoke and mirrors one could possibly wish for! Since Victorian gave me tape recordings of much of this I thought I’d publish some of the transcripts in The Cerealogist for comedy value if nothing else with a suitable disclaimer saying that, as editor, I could not vouch for anything Mr Irving or Mr Azadehdal (I think he was using that name then) claimed. Some other members of the now defunct CCCS (whose house magazine this was) who took their crop circles very seriously suppressed the article before the magazine went to press and instituted a coup d’état against me as editor --at a time when I was away in Honolulu and didn’t know what was going on back in the UK.

I’ve no idea whether Armen Victorian is alive or dead, in jail or out of jail, or whether or not he’s getting a pension from a whole number of intelligence agencies. In general I don’t subscribe to many conspiracy theories and tend to think that people like him and Irving and Lundberg and Schnabel are simply weirdos with a hidden agenda that may or may not be financed by the CIA or goodness knows whom.

Another weirdo, of course, is Dan Smith who claims that he belongs to a secret underground group like the Aviary which he calls the Aquarium. I forget Dan’s fish-name bur remember that he was totally preoccupied with conspiracies and the subject of eschatology. With all due respect, Isaac, I have to ask whether –in view of your name—you too are a member of the Aquarium?

George

P.S. Aquarium members Dan and Rosemary told me in all earnest back then that several CIA men they knew were scientologists and that there was one guy rumored to be a practicing Satanist.

 

[Bob Watson]

You guy then understand that the million dollar museum mummy and the the roswell slides mummy are not the same? Should I make a topic to discuss this 2nd mummy?

 

[Han]

You guy then understand that the million dollar museum mummy and the the roswell slides mummy are not the same? Should I make a topic to discuss this 2nd mummy?

My understanding is that the Mummy LMH shows on her site was in the million dollar museum, and the kodachrome slides one was in the Chapin Mesa museum.

Two different Mummies, but she seems to think they are both connected to Roswell..........................

I think the reward is for information regarding the Kodachrome slides Mummy, but as I said before her website is badly written and its not very clear,

 

[Constance]

I’ve no idea whether Armen Victorian is alive or dead, in jail or out of jail, or whether or not he’s getting a pension from a whole number of intelligence agencies. In general I don’t subscribe to many conspiracy theories and tend to think that people like him and Irving and Lundberg and Schnabel are simply weirdos with a hidden agenda that may or may not be financed by the CIA or goodness knows whom.

Hmm, beginning to wonder whether anyone over there in that timeframe knew who was who or what was up. You don't seem to want to talk frankly about it, and I'm losing interest in it again anyway.

Except in Victorian. Have you read his many articles and his book on the development of CIA and military mind-control projects and related subjects, heavily based in FOIA-obtained information? What intelligence agencies do you think would pay him for this? I can't put him a category with the Mirage Men given that work and don't see how you can.

 

[Burnt State]

With all due respect, Isaac, I have to ask whether –in view of your name—you too are a member of the Aquarium?

Ok, if that's how it's goimg down then I call Walleye

P.S. Aquarium members Dan and Rosemary told me in all earnest back then that several CIA men they knew were scientologists and that there was one guy rumored to be a practicing Satanist.

Try saying CIA Satanic Scientologist really fast ten times, as they easily have ten times that amount.

First Aviary, then Aquarium, next is the Veldt. Greer will be codenamed Giraffe, Romamek the Ostrich and so it goes...

 

[Burnt State]

Hmm, beginning to wonder whether anyone over there in that timeframe knew who was who or what was up. You don't seem to want to talk frankly about it, and I'm losing interest in it again anyway.

Except in Victorian. Have you read his many articles and his book on the development of CIA and military mind-control projects and related subjects, heavily based in FOIA-obtained information? What intelligence agencies do you think would pay him for this? I can't put him a category with the Mirage Men given that work and don't see how you can.

But if the majority of what he is stringing together in his personal inventions and reinventions is about myth making, given his title, then at the we very least we should question his results.

 

[Constance]

If by 'he' you mean Victorian, what do you identify as his personal inventions and mythmaking? From what I've read of his published papers they seem to be very workmanlike presentations of researched information concerning governmental/military mind-control programs that were also ultimately disclosed in the press.

 

[Constance]

given his title,

Which title are you referring to?

 

[Burnt State]

Which title are you referring to?

The title of 'mythologist.' If this movie is a mini theses opening up to his larger examinations of Ostension at work then the blueprints are being laid down in that movie. Doty and Victorian are just an expression of the duality of ufological mythology, each busy mining and seeding their sides of the tracks for not too dissimilar purposes.

It seems from what's available about the movie (though Koi would know best) and as seen in Victorian's conspirarial writings, we meet a figure who is engaged in a myth making not as weaponized as Doty's brand of myth construction, but concerned with inserting an altered reality into one more plainly visible.

 

[Creepy Green Light]

I can still picture the perpetrator(s) reading this thread (amongst others) with their ankles crossed and kicked up on a desk, hands folded behind their head, ear to ear grin, and a cigar in the corner of their mouth. And then out loud saying "excellent" - in Mr. Burns voice of course.

 

[Burnt State]

If by 'he' you mean Victorian, what do you identify as his personal inventions and mythmaking? From what I've read of his published papers they seem to be very workmanlike presentations of researched information concerning governmental/military mind-control programs that were also ultimately disclosed in the press.

Do those who are workmanlike adopt a series of various pseudonyms or perhaps he is workmanlike across his many identities? As an orchid thief he appears to be quite a diligent individual. However, he is definitely a slippery character, adopting different personas and purporting various types of information - not all appears to be just what we have on the surface. There is a strong degree of invention associated with this individual and as with Doty, one should not always believe everything that is presented just because it's dressed in factual appearances. Lundberg would not have embarked on the project with Victorian at the centre of it if he was not a bit of a magician, in the way that Doty also can deceive and manage perceptions of others.

 

[Constance]

Do those who are workmanlike adopt a series of various pseudonyms or perhaps he is workmanlike across his many identities?

I used the term 'workmanlike' to refer to the style and content of Victorian's written presentations of evidence gathered from his FOIA and other research into various mind-control technologies being developed and planned by the PTB out of public sight. He was not the only individual conducting such investigations, and others involved in that effort have referred to his work. In fact, Vallee cites some of his work in the notes to one of his books I was reading last night at Google Books. Were it not the case that what Victorian and others uncovered was later disclosed by serious journalists in major newspapers, one might try to dismiss AV as a 'conspiracy theorist' (as if conspiracies don't exist among the PTB), but his writings do not read like or sound like conspiracy-mongering. In fact they are not. Read them in detail, down through he footnotes, and you will see what I mean.

Re his use of pseudonyms, it's clear that he used them in trying to extract information by telephone from individuals involved in the above activities and other activities such as disinformation concerning ufos and crop circles (e.g., his questions posed to Schnabel and Irving). His goals, aside from his involvement in illegal orchid-trading, appear to have been furthering what he considered to be the public interest, exposing unconscionable activities in hidden mind-control and psychotronic programs of the PTB and also in disinformation and perception management concerning ufos and other anomalous phenomena. Even we, who discuss the latter subjects casually on the internet, often use pseudonyms. Are we all 'slippery characters'?

As an orchid thief he appears to be quite a diligent individual. However, he is definitely a slippery character, adopting different personas and purporting various types of information - not all appears to be just what we have on the surface. There is a strong degree of invention associated with this individual and as with Doty, one should not always believe everything that is presented just because it's dressed in factual appearances. Lundberg would not have embarked on the project with Victorian at the centre of it if he was not a bit of a magician, in the way that Doty also can deceive and manage perceptions of others.

As "an orchid thief" Azerzhedal no doubt broke the law, probably to support himself and his family. He was more than likely not being paid by CIA and other agencies to reveal their activities in mind-control technologies and disinformation. He also seems to have failed to pay his telephone bill for many years. He did end up in court on both complaints, and so far as I have been able to learn was jailed for about six weeks following the hearing that Irving 'describes' in his own inimitable way. If you want to make a case that he was a disinformation agent like Doty, I'll be happy to read it.

 

[threed]

 

[George Wingfield]

I used the term 'workmanlike' to refer to the style and content of Victorian's written presentations of evidence gathered from his FOIA and other research into various mind-control technologies being developed and planned by the PTB out of public sight. He was not the only individual conducting such investigations, and others involved in that effort have referred to his work. In fact, Vallee cites some of his work in the notes to one of his books I was reading last night at Google Books. Were it not the case that what Victorian and others uncovered was later disclosed by serious journalists in major newspapers, one might try to dismiss AV as a 'conspiracy theorist' (as if conspiracies don't exist among the PTB), but his writings do not read like or sound like conspiracy-mongering. In fact they are not. Read them in detail, down through he footnotes, and you will see what I mean.

Re his use of pseudonyms, it's clear that he used them in trying to extract information by telephone from individuals involved in the above activities and other activities such as disinformation concerning ufos and crop circles (e.g., his questions posed to Schnabel and Irving). His goals, aside from his involvement in illegal orchid-trading, appear to have been furthering what he considered to be the public interest, exposing unconscionable activities in hidden mind-control and psychotronic programs of the PTB and also in disinformation and perception management concerning ufos and other anomalous phenomena. Even we, who discuss the latter subjects casually on the internet, often use pseudonyms. Are we all 'slippery characters'?

As "an orchid thief" Azerzhedal no doubt broke the law, probably to support himself and his family. He was more than likely not being paid by CIA and other agencies to reveal their activities in mind-control technologies and disinformation. He also seems to have failed to pay his telephone bill for many years. He did end up in court on both complaints, and so far as I have been able to learn was jailed for about six weeks following the hearing that Irving 'describes' in his own inimitable way. If you want to make a case that he was a disinformation agent like Doty, I'll be happy to read it.

Ladies and Gentlemen,

I have to remind you that this thread is meant to be about the "Roswell Slides" rather than my friend/MIB Henry Azadehdal/Armen Victorian/????? Maybe someone needs to start another thread about him?

While I'm here I should say that Armen --and indeed many other ufologists and investigators of this subject-- display a moderate to high degree of paranoia which makes them see conspiracies everywhere. Favorite suspects behind these conspiracies are usually the US government, the CIA, the NSA, George Bush, Dick Cheney, John Alexander, Agent Mockingbird, etc. These are the people who have covered up the truth about UFOs and the alien presence for 68 years and they will soon be forced into "Disclosure". I believe that Richard Dolan is one such conspiracy theorist who believes that we are ruled by a secret clique of fascists and that 9/11 was an inside job cunningly contrived by the NSA, the CIA, Bush and Cheney, etc. Linda Howe thinks this way too.

I'm afraid I don't quite see it like that. Another conspiracy theorist is or was Armen Victorian. The hoaxers of crop circles, UFOs, and even "Roswell Alien" bodies --like Irving, Lundberg and Dickinson-- feed on the paranoia of such people. That, in the mind of such conspiracy theorists, will always make the hoaxers, if their activities are known or suspected, appear to be agents of the CIA, MI5, MI6, etc. This is how it works!

George

 

[George Wingfield]

Nice one, ThreeD. Make it yourself or did you get Lundberg & Co. to make you that? (Hope that the cardboard Kodachrome sleeve can be dated to 1947!)

 

[Constance]

Thanks for spelling out your current beliefs, George. It seems you've become a true blue American(ized) patriot. What might be helpful, for anyone who wants to understand why, would be an autobiographical essay recounting the evidentiary revelations you've experienced that support your current thinking, a kind of bildungsroman following your education in recent years. I'm not asking that you write such an essay, though if you published one here I would read it.

 

[Christopher O'Brien]

Aquarium members Dan and Rosemary told me in all earnest back then that several CIA men they knew were scientologists and that there was one guy rumored to be a practicing Satanist.

Are you referring to Smith & Rosemary Guily (weren't they a couple at one time?) and is the satanist Michael Aquino?

 

[George Wingfield]

Thanks for spelling out your current beliefs, George. It seems you've become a true blue American(ized) patriot. What might be helpful, for anyone who wants to understand why, would be an autobiographical essay recounting the evidentiary revelations you've experienced that support your current thinking, a kind of bildungsroman following your education in recent years. I'm not asking that you write such an essay, though if you published one here I would read it.

Well, I'd hardly say that, Constance. As you know I'm quite a skeptic and I don't buy many conspiracy theories. There is a definite affinity between some UFO folk and the conspiracy theorists as I've seen at UFO conferences in this country for many years now. If you are going to accept that 9/11 was a carefully prepared inside job with thermite charges placed unseen in the WTC and other buildings you have to believe too that all the main TV channels, well known news anchors, journalists and many other ordinary people are in on this conspiracy too --or else they are just all so dumb that they haven't spotted what might have been the greatest news scoop ever.

There are conspiracies, of course, but some people like David Icke see everything as a conspiracy and I say that's his paranoia. One recent conspiracy I do believe in is the elaborate hoax just played on Jaime Maussan with the false "Roswell Slides". Does my current thinking need any further explanation?