Try reading The Truth about the UFO Crash at Roswell pages 130-132. The flying wing and Horten scenarios are discussed and dismissed.
What? Are you kidding here? You actually present a nay say based on a book written in 1991 which entire format is based on second hand information? How is this "evidence" that the Horten 229 wasn't produced to see if the tests were better in "formation" than lone bomber oriented, or that they looked to making a stealth fighter support wing, or any idea they might have been working on at the time. One author is the Director of UFO Studies at the Center For UFO studies and the other man is a retired Air Force Captain.
Now, since you pose this book as the all inclusive authority on what happened during the Roswell crash and also what Arnold had seen, let's look at just how evidence oriented this book actually is:
1. Every bit of evidence about the crash at Roswell that is used in the book is second hand information, gathered and presented with as much paranoia about Out-world life forms crashing that day, as a good episode of the X files.
2. No where....and I mean not in one single solitary area does any FIRST hand information present itself in this book about the Horten 229, it's delivery system, why Mr. Horten developed this "Y" wing in the first place (at least no logical summation), and thus why the United States might have (and notice I say might have) been a great deal more interested in its or other Ex Nazi Saucer development than what limited information is given in this book.
3. Men writing a book in 1991 about a "60 year old situation"...Wait, wasn't it you that graced us with the fact that this isn't justified, applying so much emphasis on the point that too many years passed by and thus would have been disseminated or disavowed by now? Sadly this doesn't seem to also be the case when applying to men who serve your point now does it?
4. Since we have this priceless treasure of an investigative word referred to here, why don't we also present some of the other pieces of material which now can have equal time, that is considering the fact that you allowed for author's 60 years later to be the end all authorities on Roswell and the Arnold sightings:
1.
HO229 : A book which is based on expert analysis and expert background study which purports in one of its vast conclusions that the computer system in the HO229 and the McDonnell Douglas/General Dynamics systems were almost exacting. That the reason why we didn't have a "fighter" of this class during the 50's was because of that reason, yet obviously LONG during the 40's the craft was being tested all over Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, etc.
2.
Hitler's Flying Saucers: A Guide to German Flying Discs of the Second World War: A very detailed and comprehensive book outlining the entire German UFO program, including "theories" (because NO ONE has any proof) about why it was so interesting to the U.S. after the war, and just what technical data and information was being tested after 45' and why.
3. Kenneth Arnold's interview that day:
Kenneth Arnold
Arnold himself was quoted as stating that what he had seen was "most probably a military vehicle of some sort" in future interviews and in the papers of the day.
Gee, taken from the man himself as something the "government" probably made.....Now how far of a stretch could this be when knowing full well that in 1947 the Nazis were in the U.S., were helping us with the space race, and did develop the Horten, the Hanebau II, etc. etc.
Whoops, not just a wannabe second hand information pundit for E.T....Actual evidence, conclusive proof which puts all the pieces in one place for a good
theory......nothing more!
I didn't say only KDR "knows everything for sure." There are plenty of other knowledgeable believers and knowledgeable skeptics, and it sure says something that none of them are proposing this idea.
Says what? That they haven't spent as many years as others might have actually studying the material and putting forth a justified theory based on evidence and actual information gathered? Too bad, perhaps that says something about their lack of caring or their lack of detailed investigative skills. Either way, since we are looking at investigations outside of our personal investment, here is a site which presents in detail years of research into the Nazi Discs, and why it is believed that their influence (and USSR interest as well) made great strides into testing and thus crashes, etc. during the late 40's, 50's and beyond (I guess this gentleman and the thousands of others who feel as I do must not be active members of KDR, sorry):
http://greyfalcon.us/BACKUP.htm *
*(Added for emphasis) By the way, the author's site above actually disagrees with my theory on the Horten, but does not offer any explanation about the last development of the prototype, J3 version which is the one I believe was what was worked on by the U.S. with the help of the Nazi Scientists and seen by Arnold over Mt. Rainer. This information was included in detail in the
HO229 book and others.
Lol, had that been the real explanation, or even one considered theoretically possible, based on documentation, the AF would've used it, to debunk the report. Btw only 2 flying wings were at muroc, far away, whereas Arnold saw several craft--see the book.
LOL! I love a good laugh too....."See the book"....I did more than that my friend, and guess what....Paranoia, second hand information, and accounts which taken as fact without any weight make for good episodes of One Step Beyond, but really don't put forth a good hypothesis, and that based on actual evidence which creates the foundation in the first place. There is absolutely no proof that those "two" flying wings were ALL that there was, no less that they were the only ones used for testing. What about the Horten IX-Nurflügler, the Haunebu II DoStra, the SS E-IV (Entwicklungsstelle 4), and on and on. I bet KDR must have come up with where they were tested too yes?
Lol, it doesn't, because mogul can't explain the event.
Miracle of Miracles, we agree on something. I have felt for years that MOGUL couldn't explain away so many of the "craft" eyewitness reports which happened before the cover up, nor could it explain the original "Saucer" report given and then recanted. Although not one piece of "UFO" material has ever come to the surface, to say they were "Balloons" is just ridiculous. I also remember somewhere during the entire affair how the govt. attempted to explain the "little men" rescued or buried or whatever they did with them as "test dummies", although the use of these dummies weren't used for many years later...LOL! All of this was one of the reasons why I found myself interested in Roswell and Arnold's sighting during the 40's and why for over 30 years now I have developed the conclusions I now have.
Again, I respect other peoples "theories", not dissensions based on non relevant data or supposed "evidence", which is too limited in scope yet attempts to counter what it is I have investigated and hypothesized. It is one of the reasons why "theory" is just that....NONE of us, KDR, The Pope....no one knows what happened that day other than a few who were actually on the scene, and even they had it all confused. I stand by my theory it was a govt. test gone awry and that Arnold also witnessed a human developed advanced version of the original Horten 229....Remember, the Horten Brothers original plan wasn't for a "bomber", it was actually for a fighter...This led me to believe years ago that perhaps the U.S. govt. was flying these wings in formation over Mt. Rainer that day for this reason. Eventually they found that they didn't have the complete package....eventual problems with the computer system, problems with control in formation and during maneuvers...The same crap the Germans had....and they tabled it for further exploration years later, eventually finding the "stealth" capabilities that we have today in our current craft.
Lol, it was explained just recently; it was on NPR some time ago.
LOL! I had to read this twice because the first time I wanted to reply with
....Ok, my bad. I am glad to see your sense of humor isn't faltering here.
Ha, tell that to the pro paleoanthropologists. We evolved from earlier hominids.
Again my friend, theory....Theorem. Someone in this forum stated that theory is all we have and they are completely right in their conclusion. I learned long ago to keep open minded about theory and about what "faith" can provide instead.
Again, who is "we" ? We laymen. And even for laymen, what's lacking is conclusive proof; the evidence is considerable.
What? Sorry this is nonsensical for me....Conclusive proof.....conjecture? Evidence as a basis not as an end. Perhaps you are not seeing the forest from the trees, as no where....not in anything I, nor anyone else can surmise by all of this is evidential in the context of conclusiveness. It seems that only you put forth the notions that what we have to say has already been voided and only your words make sense and are the truth....But honestly, this pales in comparison to doing research, gathering forth substantial facts and data, and then presenting a justified theory based on your findings.
I see you judging people and not doing this, sorry.
I didn't say they said it was from an ET craft. On at least two occasions it was calculated that landing marks from an unusual craft indicated the latter must have weighed several tons. See e.g. Edwards's book.
I did not say your "only" conclusion was the reasoning in my reply...I took your context of the subject and enlightened a point as too how it could have been any "weighted" object, albeit human made or not. I am sorry if you took this the wrong way or if I worded it incorrectly.
Vastly more bias works the other way. It seems a number of people are so desperate to believe it was not ET they've turned to japanese POWs in a balloon , or people with progeria.....Anything and everything imaginable, except ET.
My friend, I don't know how old you are, or how much wisdom you have learned over the years. I am not here to judge you but perhaps I can give a little bit of advice nonetheless.....I don't mean this as someone who wants to put you down, or someone who is out to besmirch your reputation on this forum or anywhere, but you have to read between the lines sometimes and really attempt to understand people's intentions. I thought I had written down very clearly in past threads or even in this one, that I was one of the first people in my locale and area when I was in my teens to have believed that E.T. visited us and actually had our well being at hand. I looked and looked and looked for answers to it all, and actually ignored the many case studies of abductions, mainly because they seemed very malevolent and not at all what I assumed an E.T. should be like. I fought others for years on the subject and stated that the only explanation had to be E.T., and even had a time in which I questioned my own faith based on this and other personal reasons.
After years of waiting for them to arrive from outer space..... After years of waiting for the REAL proof, such as the metal or beings recovered at Roswell to be presented to the world, or the technology supposedly given to us and not invented by man to help us, or for them to actually land already and show us the way....NOTHING. Not one bit of real evidence, proof, little visitors....Nothing. Honestly, I don't think if they really exist as "extraterrestrial" they care one iota about us and we are more like some type of herd animal instead of intelligent life form anyway...so why care?
Does this mean I am not open to seeing them one day. No. It means I looked to other explanations because every theory, whether far out or perhaps closely related upon, might just be true for lack of a better or more concrete explanation.
At the time the Nazis were at least 20 years ahead of us in technology and we are just very blessed that we hit their heavy water installation in early 45 or none of us would be able to do anything more than goose step and salute today. Hitler was a diabolical tyrant who always had to be right and thank God or whatever you want to for that! Because if there were another intelligent entity (who wanted to have won the war on the German side) at the time
in his place as ruler, one thing is for certain, the world as we know it today would be a great deal different and we probably wouldn't be in it.
