There will be no Disclosure

[Facius_Cardan]

Lastly, Facius, whether I am wrong, the E.T. defenders are wrong, or both of us are wrong and there is something else out there we have no idea about, I am sure we can all agree that whatever reasons the government has to keep this from the public, THERE ARE keeping something from us.... Would you agree to this?

As I've made clear in previous posts, I don't stand by any particular theory on UFOs, wether its based on christian theology or extraterrestrial supposition. Governments have always kept and will continue to keep secrets - that's basically how they work. If everyone knew everything about the inner workings of the power machinery we would basically cease to operate under their rule. Corruption, games of influences and insider information are common concepts among the spheres of power. Regarding UFOs do they have the answer? I don't think so. Do they posses important data, specially from military/air force/navy personel and their apparatus? Certainly, but I don't think that they've been able to do much with it and they must be as puzzled as we are with the phenomena. Is the government working with alien civilizations and keeping extraterrestrial technology in mysterious bases? There's no solid evidence of that, just pure speculation and second-hand testimonies. If they had any real secret, by now we would have at least one serious person from within the government and/or military structures anywhere in the world blowing the whistle on that. What concrete material do we have until now? Zero! Anything else is just fodder for sci-fi writers and rabid believers.

 

[PararealitySaint]

I have an idea. You're a Christian right PRS? Why don't you just forgive everyone here of whatever trespasses you feel have been committed against you, pray for their well-being, and let's all just move on? I'm willing to move on and I'm quite sure Angelo is as well. Our conduct in this forum speaks more to our fellow readers about our spirituality than any statement we have to make about the particulars of our individual belief systems.

I am a Christian and I thank you for reminding me of this. I don't feel the need to forgive everyone for their opinions, nor do I wish to force others to believe that I look down on them for how they feel. My intent was merely to show how I "feel" that disclosure will not happen in the way so many people hope and pray it will.

Since we are back to discussing disclosure this is how I see it:

1. The formation that was seen by Kenneth Arnold on June 24th 1947 was indeed a U.S. backed government test of the Nazi Horten 229 bomber in formation over Mt. Rainer. It is not a coincidence that after much tweaking and years of further advancement we now have the the American Stealth Bomber.

2. Roswell in 47' was indeed a duel crash....but not of E.T.
Roswell happened because at the time in New Mexico the government was testing Nazi research and actually attempted to fly some of the craft they finally finished with the help of those from Peenemünde. It is my opinion that there was a mix up and a crash ensued.

3. For years the United States Government has been doing research we have no clue as to the truth about, and this includes but isn't limited to Mind Control techniques, divination, spirit summoning, etc.

4. Whether you believe in God or not, the U.S. Government (in my opinion and not fact) is currently working on ways by which inter-dimensional travel and communication is achieved. I believe they have done battle with forces I call Demonic but others might call Alien, and that to this day the closest people in actually finding out the truth about any form of "disclosure" are those who seek the dimensional and not the extraterrestrial realms.

Now then, based on the above, I put forth the notion that we have NEVER been visited by "extra-terrestrial" beings, but rather have been by inter-dimensional or demonically driven beings. Even if you don't agree with my "primal" feelings towards the traditional sense of the word, "demonic", there is still a WIDE amount of room left open for some form of creature, being or "Spirit" emanating from another dimension into our own.

I believe that this "inter-dimensional" being could be many, differing in both shapes, sizes and intent. I think that the ancients in our small marble of a world have been influenced by them since the beginning of time, and that the Bible attempts to show why they should be considered "pagan" and not to be involved with or touched.

Ok, so many of you would probably respond with, "there he goes again, using this "Bible" to close off and impede the relationship we could have with these so called beings!".....Yep! My feeling is that unless they can be classified as "angelic" or in some way a messenger from God (sorry, my own personal belief) they should be construed as malevolent and under the direct power and authority of the Devil (again my personal belief, please do not feel the need to judge).

Now then, notice I said "PERSONAL" feeling....opinion....Not FACT. A fact is indeed what we humans categorize as physical proof and I am in no way stating I have this.

That is where my "faith" comes in and is not subject to a discussion in this thread.

 

[tyder001]

As I've said before on this and other threads. There is not one bit of evidence of E.T. and I truly wish there was. In my opinion the abduction experience is either a psychological expericence or a spirtual experience or a chemical imbalance or even a government run experiment. Lot's of room there huhh? I tend to agree with Trained Observer that much of the ufo sigthings are perhaps a military or black ops type experiment and not an off world contact. That's what I mean when I say that for somebody to make fun of religious explanations while themselves embracing a "spaceman/woman" explanation is laughable. Sorry, it just is. I enjoy reading all kinds of explanations about ufo's. From Vallee to L.A. Mazulli (pardon the spelling but I'm talking the religous guy who came on the show once) But, I must admit something to you. I don't believe either one or any in between. I do keep watching the skies and I enjoy the ride. But, I have not seen anything to make me believe in E.T. be it an off world visitor or a demon or a time traveler. But they are all fun and interesting to speculate about.

 

[pixelsmith]

I am a Christian and I thank you for reminding me of this. I don't feel the need to forgive everyone for their opinions, nor do I wish to force others to believe that I look down on them for how they feel. My intent was merely to show how I "feel" that disclosure will not happen in the way so many people hope and pray it will.

Since we are back to discussing disclosure this is how I see it:

1. The formation that was seen by Kenneth Arnold on June 24th 1947 was indeed a U.S. backed government test of the Nazi Horten 229 bomber in formation over Mt. Rainer. It is not a coincidence that after much tweaking and years of further advancement we now have the the American Stealth Bomber.

2. Roswell in 47' was indeed a duel crash....but not of E.T.
Roswell happened because at the time in New Mexico the government was testing Nazi research and actually attempted to fly some of the craft they finally finished with the help of those from Peenemünde. It is my opinion that there was a mix up and a crash ensued.

3. For years the United States Government has been doing research we have no clue as to the truth about, and this includes but isn't limited to Mind Control techniques, divination, spirit summoning, etc.

4. Whether you believe in God or not, the U.S. Government (in my opinion and not fact) is currently working on ways by which inter-dimensional travel and communication is achieved. I believe they have done battle with forces I call Demonic but others might call Alien, and that to this day the closest people in actually finding out the truth about any form of "disclosure" are those who seek the dimensional and not the extraterrestrial realms.

Now then, based on the above, I put forth the notion that we have NEVER been visited by "extra-terrestrial" beings, but rather have been by inter-dimensional or demonically driven beings. Even if you don't agree with my "primal" feelings towards the traditional sense of the word, "demonic", there is still a WIDE amount of room left open for some form of creature, being or "Spirit" emanating from another dimension into our own.

I believe that this "inter-dimensional" being could be many, differing in both shapes, sizes and intent. I think that the ancients in our small marble of a world have been influenced by them since the beginning of time, and that the Bible attempts to show why they should be considered "pagan" and not to be involved with or touched.

Ok, so many of you would probably respond with, "there he goes again, using this "Bible" to close off and impede the relationship we could have with these so called beings!".....Yep! My feeling is that unless they can be classified as "angelic" or in some way a messenger from God (sorry, my own personal belief) they should be construed as malevolent and under the direct power and authority of the Devil (again my personal belief, please do not feel the need to judge).

Now then, notice I said "PERSONAL" feeling....opinion....Not FACT. A fact is indeed what we humans categorize as physical proof and I am in no way stating I have this.

That is where my "faith" comes in and is not subject to a discussion in this thread.

Why doesn't God just kill the demons? He can kill babies, men, women and all other life forms quite easily and actually did so quite often! He just can't seem to kill a demon... How frustrating that must be!

"And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and all the firstborn of cattle. And Pharaoh rose up in the night, he, and all his servants, and all the Egyptians; and there was a great cry in Egypt; for there was not a house where there was not one dead." (Exodus 12:29-30)

 

[PararealitySaint]

Why doesn't God just kill the demons?

Is this really a question you want to pose in a discussion about Disclosure? I don't mind answering you in a personal manner, but if I were to present the answer in this thread, I feel as though it would add very little, if any genuine support the subject of "There will be no Disclosure" and only lead to the "Godhead" love/hate arguments many of the contributors to this thread have posted a wish to evade.

 

[pixelsmith]

Is this really a question you want to pose in a discussion about Disclosure? I don't mind answering you in a personal manner, but if I were to present the answer in this thread, I feel as though it would add very little, if any genuine support the subject of "There will be no Disclosure" and only lead to the "Godhead" love/hate arguments many of the contributors to this thread have posted a wish to evade.

You brought god into the discussion. I am interested in why god does not just kill the demons because he is very good at killing everything else.


"And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because the LORD had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter." (I Samuel 6:19)

"Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt. Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass." (I Samuel 15:2-3)

"And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and woman: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house." (Ezekiel 9:5-6)

 

[PararealitySaint]

As I've said before on this and other threads. There is not one bit of evidence of E.T. and I truly wish there was. In my opinion the abduction experience is either a psychological expericence or a spirtual experience or a chemical imbalance or even a government run experiment. Lot's of room there huhh? I tend to agree with Trained Observer that much of the ufo sigthings are perhaps a military or black ops type experiment and not an off world contact. That's what I mean when I say that for somebody to make fun of religious explanations while themselves embracing a "spaceman/woman" explanation is laughable. Sorry, it just is. I enjoy reading all kinds of explanations about ufo's. From Vallee to L.A. Mazulli (pardon the spelling but I'm talking the religous guy who came on the show once) But, I must admit something to you. I don't believe either one or any in between. I do keep watching the skies and I enjoy the ride. But, I have not seen anything to make me believe in E.T. be it an off world visitor or a demon or a time traveler. But they are all fun and interesting to speculate about.

You know Tyder001, I have to admit something here. Your opinions and your feelings are really genuine and very positive. I am glad you are on this forum and have to admit, to be open minded and ready to allow for ALL options makes for a better, well rounded person.....and I salute you.

With that said, the main reason why I seem so Hell bent (sorry) to exclaim the situation of disclosure in religious terms, is because I have studied the phenomenon for many more years that I would like to admit, and found that the only answers I can see, which at least cover a lot of the why's for me, are "FAITH" based ones, as scientific evidence for any aspects of this subject are just not there.

Years ago I was so into finding out the "truth" that if you were to have asked me then, I would have told you, "Ohhh yeah, we are being visited by E.T. and I believe that the Government is covering it up", etc., but after waiting and waiting and waiting for E.T. to show conscious man even a smidgen of the smallest of truth as any viable proof, or that they even care we exist...or are genuinely there for us...or whatever you might want to say about them other than they aren't....

Nothing.

Anomalous sightings, pictures and even my childhood experience notwithstanding, faith in my "primal" instinct leads me to believe that perhaps the Bible isn't so off after all.

Again, that might not be for you, or anyone else reading this. I am just exclaiming that after years of listening and reading author after author, and observing the supposed "factual" evidence of visitation by out-worldly beings, I reverted back to a more "faith" based approach to life, and that approach being my Christian faith. I did this not out of some direct ploy against those who believe in extraterrestrial life, and you know something, there might just be life out there in the stars, but I did this because I became sick of the Richard Boylans and Raels of the world, who continuously talk about Aliens on this planet and secret agendas and all this nonsensical B.S.


---------- Post added at 04:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:18 PM ----------

You brought god into the discussion. I am interested in why god does not just kill the demons because he is very good at killing everything else.


"And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the LORD, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because the LORD had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter." (I Samuel 6:19)

"Thus saith the LORD of hosts, I remember that which Amalek did to Israel, how he laid wait for him in the way, when he came up from Egypt. Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass." (I Samuel 15:2-3)

"And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and woman: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house." (Ezekiel 9:5-6)

Ok, you got me....I have no idea why God doesn't kill all Demons...have you asked him lately? Wait...I know, perhaps you don't believe there is a God....Have you asked an E.T. lately?

 

[pixelsmith]

Well, after reading the bible several times I chose not to have faith in a murderer.

 

[tyder001]

Some people think there is nothing after death and that we are simply a by product of chemicals and "brain farts." To those folks god as murderer would make no honest sense since they don't even agree there is a god. However, they might think his/her followers are murderers.

Some folks think that energy is neither created or destroyed and that we are pure consciencuss energy having a "physical experience" They (or some of them) might say that we chose our earthly expereince in order to evolve spritually and to have relationship in this earth for a higher purpose. To them they are god and would simply say that the good and bad are illusions and that there is a higher plane. So god as murderer would again be a silly and even deluded statement.

Some folks think that God gave life and that what you call death is simply a transition to pure spirit and to be absent from the body is to be whole and alive with God. So, they would really never agree with you calling God a murderer.

Some folks would say that you read the bible like a spoiled child and can't seperate the wheat from the chaff. That the bible is simply a road map and a product of man's search for meaning but a flawed instrument none the less like all things that mankind does. To call God a murderer would be silly.

So, I have to assume that if you actually believe that god is a murderer that you believe in an old man in the sky who is angry and ready to strike people dead. Therefore I can't understand you because I have no sense of such a being or personage. So, again god as murderer is just not logical.

However, if I were a god and gave life and then decided when your earthly life was over then I still would not be a murderer. After all you wouldn't be dead you would be leaving your body behind. So, no I don't think I can follow your logic at all Pixel. I don't care how much you have "read" the bible. Somewhere ya missed something important. Now, I'm not a bible thumper. I don't think that god is angry or vengeful. Truly that is god made in the image of man.

So, as an atheist (if I were one) your anger would be silly and misdirected. As a Christian, I would think you were simply an angry and decieved human. As a person who believes in reincarnation and the evolution of the soul (which might best describe myself at this point in my journey although not completely) I feel you are simply like most humans. You don't understand that there are no "real" victims. Yes some people exploit others and that is wrong. But, ultimatley we are walking our own roads for our own reasons. Doesn't mean I condone messing people up but I never blame God for the weakness of mankind.

Peace.

---------- Post added at 01:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:07 AM ----------

Sorry for the long rant off topic. Back to the topic at hand. No, I don't think there will be disclosure. I'm not sure there is anything other than black ops. to disclose and the government isn't gonna do that.

 

[Trajanus]

Can we trust anything that may have been communicated to our government officials by non-humans or heaven forbid, humans from somewhere else (another planet or dimension)? I say we can't.

One possible exception--threats.

I think the evidence shows that information that reportedly comes from non-humans (revelatory knowledge, channeled knowledge, etc., etc.) has historically been highly contradictory.

Or out and out false, like they're from Orion.

If cosmic beings were really speaking to human beings through inspiration, direct contact, revelation, or channeling then you would think there would be coherent message. There isn't. The question of who to believe is none of them. Don't believe a damn thing. It is an incredibly tempting and terribly dangerous thing to do with this business. The reason? The entire puppet show (or the faux-reality show) is designed to make you believe,

I dunno...UFOs and aliens usually go away quickly if seen, and they block memories. Apparently their agenda requires secrecy....

..we should doubt everything about them, challenge them, and treat them like dangerous animals, with respect (for the great inherent danger) and great caution.

...which is consistent with this.

 

[trainedobserver]

One possible exception--threats.

Oh! Good point! You have to wonder, are the cattle mutilations and and nuclear weapons incidents meant as threats?

I dunno...UFOs and aliens usually go away quickly if seen, and they block memories. Apparently their agenda requires secrecy....

There is one school of thought that says that UFOs are psychotronic devices that alter the observers consciousness and actually induce or trigger UFO and alien experiences and that many UFO experiences are intentionally staged. I'm rereading Messengers of Deception at the moment and if I follow Vallee correctly he had come to think that the belief in alien visitation was being cultivated in the public awareness through the use of psychotronic technology. Certainly, if you look at the exopolitics and contactee/abductee/experiencer scenes today Vallee seems like a prophet, having outlined so much of it back in the late 1970s in that book. The subject of UFOs have been tainted and marginalized so effectively that the public can't look to any real scientific rational study of them for information. They are regulated to what the UFO cultists, contactees, researchers, and UFO subculture (infiltrated and fed by counterintelligence organizations worldwide) has to say about them. These unlikely sources are actually molding public perception rather than serious science. You have to ask yourself, "To what end?"

Like so many others have said before, I don't think one explanation can or should be attempted for all UFO and related phenomena. I think there is some component(s) of this that has been around since the beginning of human history. I think human beings, at some point in history, began to exploit aspects of it either through imitation or replication. I think that is where we are today, we can't tell at this point what is the original phenomena and what is the copy.

 

[Trajanus]

As I've made clear in previous posts, I don't stand by any particular theory on UFOs, wether its based on christian theology or extraterrestrial supposition. Governments have always kept and will continue to keep secrets - that's basically how they work. If everyone knew everything about the inner workings of the power machinery we would basically cease to operate under their rule. Corruption, games of influences and insider information are common concepts among the spheres of power. Regarding UFOs do they have the answer? I don't think so.

I think they know what they are. Not necessarily why they're here.

Is the government working with alien civilizations

Highly unlikely. There have been too many hostile encounters with UFOs.

and keeping extraterrestrial technology in mysterious bases? There's no solid evidence of that, just pure speculation and second-hand testimonies. If they had any real secret, by now we would have at least one serious person from within the government and/or military structures anywhere in the world blowing the whistle on that.

Marcel "blew the whistle" over 30 years ago. True he wasn't in the government by then. But you can't dismiss crash-retrieval reports because of that. ULTRA was kept for 30 years after the war i.e. for 30 years after any real need to keep it secret had ended.

What concrete material do we have until now? Zero!

But who is "we"? Just because laymen don't have it doesn't mean the government doesn't; there certainly are grounds for believing it does.

 

[tyder001]

How can "science" study ufo's? Where is the ship? Gotta blood sample? I've heard some "stuff" about landing traces? Whuts dat? "laymen just don't know." Huhh? "Radar" Uhhh, yeah we they and them all have radar.

Here's my point. Science is wonderful and I am a benificary of it everyday in one way or another. But, it can only give out what is put in. While I am a big proponent of my own life expereince I realize that there is a point where "science" is just not equipped to measure in an objective blood and guts way all the things that I believe. They may or may not be someday but right now they are not. So, what I'm trying to say is that the U.F.O. like other "para" type incidents do not lend themselves easily to scientific study. That is because either we don't have the means as of yet or the science is in dispute (see PSI reasearch) or we simply don't have any "tangilbe" evidence (see UFO research) It's not the fault of "science" and it is silly (as I've said before) to act as if UFO's are an established fact as far as space travelers go. Actually, the military option makes as much or more sense than spacemen/women at this point.

 

[Trajanus]

Since we are back to discussing disclosure this is how I see it:

1. The formation that was seen by Kenneth Arnold on June 24th 1947 was indeed a U.S. backed government test of the Nazi Horten 229 bomber in formation over Mt. Rainer.

Where is the documentation or testimony which proves this?

2. Roswell in 47' was indeed a duel crash....but not of E.T.
Roswell happened because at the time in New Mexico the government was testing Nazi research and actually attempted to fly some of the craft they finally finished with the help of those from PeenemündeIt is my opinion that there was a mix up and a crash ensued.

You should see KDR's blog. All of the best-informed skeptics see MOGUL as the only alternative to ET. Even moody dosmissed Carrion's notion for example. As has long been known, documentation rules out a V-1, and there's no evidence for anything else.

---------- Post added at 03:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:44 PM ----------

Oh! Good point! You have to wonder, are the cattle mutilations and and nuclear weapons incidents meant as threats?

Sure, and maybe tests of weapons.

There is one school of thought that says that UFOs are psychotronic devices that alter the observers consciousness and actually induce or trigger UFO and alien experiences and that many UFO experiences are intentionally staged. I'm rereading Messengers of Deception at the moment and if I follow Vallee correctly he had come to think that the belief in alien visitation was being cultivated in the public awareness through the use of psychotronic technology.

Does this technology produce implants, tripod markings etc?

 

[tyder001]

Sigh! I went out yesterday and saw a "tripod" marking on the ground. Therefore that is scientifc "proof" of little green men. Sheesssh!

---------- Post added at 04:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:05 PM ----------

Also, true story here. Back in the 80's I had a calcium deposit that worked it's way out of a certain body part. Dang, if I had only known it was an alien implant I could have written a book and maybe even gotten a movie deal.

 

[Facius_Cardan]

But who is "we"? Just because laymen don't have it doesn't mean the government doesn't; there certainly are grounds for believing it does.

It's funny that some of the greatest laymen I knew worked for the government. The public administrations of most countries, as with any other large service, are filled with incompetent and blatantly unprepared people. To entertain the idea that some kind of secret war is going on with extraterrestrials is an abusive interpretation of the murky data collected until now. As always, I'm still wating for some surprising new evidence of such claims. It's easy to say that ET presence on Earth is a fact but, when asked about the basis for such conclusions, the same old handful of cases and personalities get mentioned.

Does this technology produce implants

Does any of you know of an independent analysis made on a supposed alien implant? I've read about such things for a long time, but I'm still waiting to see an analysis, verified by multiple labs, on one of those artifacts. A real extraterrestrial implant could be something fundamental to engross the evidence for alien abductions.

 

[Simone_m]

Does any of you know of an independent analysis made on a supposed alien implant? I've read about such things for a long time, but I'm still waiting to see an analysis, verified by multiple labs, on one of those artifacts. A real extraterrestrial implant could be something fundamental to engross the evidence for alien abductions.

Just google Dr. Roger Leir
http://www.alienscalpel.com/

 

[tyder001]

Just google Dr. Roger Lier

He is interesting. I've heard him on Coast. But, at the same time the Whitley hata's will be all over ya for that one. I'm not sure if he has ever offered his samples to an independent researcher. But, I'll google it. Actually, the abduction experience is more interesting to me than the nuts and bolts spaceship myth.

 

[trainedobserver]

Does this technology produce implants, tripod markings etc?

Well, like I said, one explanation doesn't fit everything. But yeah, it is surmised that a vehicle that utilizes high energy magnetic fields for propulsion could have some effect on consciousness. It isn't hard to imagine that once discovered, that this effect would be exploited and weaponized. While these may be manned vehicles I suspect that most are UAVs or maybe even land based devices. There is an interesting video out concerning implants that I posted to Paracast TV recently. Unfortunately it has Greer interviewing a now deceased whistleblower. I usually view whistleblower testimony with a great deal of suspicion and this is no exception. However, the explanation the fellow gives concerning implants seems very plausible. I personally think implants are of human origin.

 

[Simone_m]

I had misspelled --Leir-- which can be seen in your (my) quote, but I corrected it and put his website link as well.