Thoughts on conscience, entities, ufos plus AYAHUASCA

[Constance]

Good point. This isn't the best thread to discuss the details of your post. I'll leave you to contemplate it further over on Tyger's "C & P thread" where @Pharoah has made some very fine posts.

There were no 'details' in my post. You can check that out in the original exchange at Thoughts on conscience, entities, ufos plus AYAHUASCA | Page 10 | The Paracast Community Forums

Also, this present thread is a perfectly good place to discuss the simple point I was making.

 

[Ufocurious]

Hello everyone

I am back from my 4th encounter and got some insights.

Take them with a huge bag of salt because a neophyte like me does not know much, but I want to share them anyway.
I went to another shamanic place. Lots of nice people there. The Ayahuasca was different, had an ethereal side much stronger than the others.
I witnessed someone on a healing trip. It created a bit of a confusion but the helpers were strong and controlled it well.

I saw what it can do, it is not pretty, and serve as a warning: never drink it without supervision of someone who knows how to deal with the forces Ayahuasca releases.

My intuition/higher self/guardian angel (I cannot differentiate) told me to leave the place as serious work had to be performed there. I went outside, under the sun, and had many insights:

1. Ayahuasca is a drug and takes a huge amount of spiritual discipline to handle it. If one gives in into the DMT, fascination can occur, and one cannot separate what is the drug and what is insight.
2. Ayahuasca also opens interdimensional gates.It is dangerous if the person does not have a disciplined life, and does not take it with people with experience and that lead balanced lives.
3. Ayahuasca is a great healer, if handled with care.
4. Real spiritual experiences have a much better energy.
5. Ayahuasca is not a shortcut, it is a tool. However, to use the tool the person has to work on their issues in their everyday life.

Yesterday I was completely spared from nausea, vomiting or else.
I was in the force and was able to tune in and out of it at my command.
I was even able to help a little taking care of the person in a bad trip.
The search is over for a while. My main insight is that I should learn to trust my intuition and work with my own energies without any extra substance for a while before using Ayahuasca again.
I am thankful for my guardian angel who guided me through these 4 sessions. She "told" me she was "Aya"
Thanks to my psychotherapist who has helped me internalize the insights Ayahuasca gave me.
Thanks Divaldo Franco, Bezerra de Menezes and Joanna de Angelis who showed me what a real spiritual experience is.

Thanks you all who shared this experience with me.

 

[Randall]

As Tyger suggests, what I mean would be clear to you if you had followed the C&P thread, even just Part 2 of it. Recent extracts from and links there to Edgar Mitchell, Jaak Panksepp, and Karl Pribram within the last week would probably be the most helpful orientations. Much of the present thread has also provided several perspectives on what posters here consider to be the nature and structure of reality.

I've perused the thread but there is so much there to cover that may or may not be applicable to this specific instance, and much of it has the same issues regarding clarity of meaning, so referring me to walls of text that may or may or may not be relevant will only complicate things rather than making them simpler. In fact, you could have simply answered the question in the same amount of space it has taken to deflect my inquiry to another thread, but if that's too bothersome for you, I'll know better than to burden you with any more questions in the future.

 

[manxman]

The last thing I want to get into again right now is another argument that gets me nowhere.

Fixed that last sentence for you Randal.

 

[Randall]

... I witnessed someone on a healing trip ...

What kind of healing? Physical? Emotional? Psychological? Can you be more specific?

1. Ayahuasca is a drug and takes a huge amount of spiritual discipline to handle it. If one gives in into the DMT, fascination can occur, and one cannot separate what is the drug and what is insight.

Is your use of the phrase "spiritual discipline" the same as "psychological and emotional control"? If not, how does it differ?

2. Ayahuasca also opens interdimensional gates.

By "interdimensional gates, do you mean you are able to perceive what you believe to be separate realms of existence beyond what is going on inside your head? Or do you believe that these realms are created by your mind as part of the experience?

Thanks to my psychotherapist who has helped me internalize the insights Ayahuasca gave me.

Did your psychotherapist approve of you exploring this avenue of "therapy"? Did he or she ever express concerns over the hazards prior to you embarking on this experiment?

 

[Tyger]

Thanks you all who shared this experience with me.

You are very welcome. I thank you for sharing.

This is your thread - this is what we were to be discussing. Thank you for keeping focussed and not being disheartened.

Many have been listening to the gold, ignoring the chaff. Thank you.

 

[Ufocurious]

What kind of healing? Physical? Emotional? Psychological? Can you be more specific?

Is your use of the phrase "spiritual discipline" the same as "psychological and emotional control"? If not, how does it differ?

By "interdimensional gates, do you mean you are able to perceive what you believe to be separate realms of existence beyond what is going on inside your head? Or do you believe that these realms are created by your mind as part of the experience?

Did your psychotherapist approve of you exploring this avenue of "therapy"? Did he or she ever express concerns over the hazards prior to you embarking on this experiment?

Hi Ufology
I knew you were going to be curious.
Question 1: I don't know. All I know he was in some kind of bad trip and left feeling much better.
Question 2: "spiritual discipline" the same as "psychological and emotional control"? Yes and no. Spiritual discipline for me means: psychological and emotional control, and respect for forces beyond our comprehension that should not be played with.
Question 3: Yes, there is something beyond our 3D reality. On the first experience my "antennas" to this reality were closed for a few days. The lesson I learned was to understand people that do not have this kind of connection. They go through life completely closed. It is their lesson in this life. They have to focus on the material world. I also learned is not my job to convince people to other realms. We are all on the same planet, but each one of us have a different path to follow. Therefore, the tools we came with are adequate to our path here. We, the ones a bit more open, need hard core skeptics to keep our critical thinking sharp and ourselves grounded in the reality we dwell. Otherwise we would become easy targets to the people with a lot of knowledge on other realms but with no good intentions. The other realms I talk about were encountered with perfect clear mind and with some material proof. There is also another case with material proof that I did not want to post because the one about the toy tail is much more interesting.
Question 4: my psychotherapist is very special. She also has an open channel to other realities. One of the good things about my country. People on the medical field tha are not closed minded. Of course she was worried. She was also doing research in other to help me out.

Ufology, Ayahuasca is like LSD, a drug. But a drug with teaching capabilities. They are not to be played with. They are not recreational. They release the stuff about ourselves our ego tries to hide very well. One should never go into those without help. Remember that I told you in our PMs my father-in-law was one of those pioneers in the US and Canada with LSD research? He always kept the belief LSD is a great tool, but only coupled with psychotherapy.

 

[Ufocurious]

BTW, I want to share something from yesterday:
when I went outside and looked at the blue sky with my eyes shut, I could see a kaleidoscope like layer covering earth. It was the DMT. If I wanted I could dive into it like I did on my 2nd trip and pretended we live in a HOLODECK (like Star Trek) and imagine a whole scenario of us living in a matrix and so on. Instead I chose not to go in that path and it dissolved.
I also could make the clouds transform themselves into entities with faces and everything. Actually was fun to play ON DMT, OFF DMT.

 

[Constance]

I've perused the thread but there is so much there to cover that may or may not be applicable to this specific instance, and much of it has the same issues regarding clarity of meaning, so referring me to walls of text that may or may or may not be relevant will only complicate things rather than making them simpler. In fact, you could have simply answered the question in the same amount of space it has taken to deflect my inquiry to another thread, but if that's too bothersome for you, I'll know better than to burden you with any more questions in the future.

For this relief, much thanks, ufology. You and I and a few others have been over much of this same territory before in the first 100 pages of the C&P thread with no resulting breakthroughs in communication that were satisfactory to you. That thread has gone on for as long as it has because it probes the interface between consciousness/mind and world, a world given to us, and accessible to us, in many different ways. We wanted to understand the variety of ways in which this interface has been explored -- through experience as well as thought -- and so we had to take account of a great many texts describing and analyzing experience and expressing reflective thought about it (including scientific approaches that have not until very recently paid attention to experience).

The four-line post of mine that bothered you last night contained two statements. The first was my disagreement with your view that it is a near- certainty that ancient rock art with its ufo/alien iconography can be explained in terms of drug-induced hallucinations (which you take to be wholly accounted for by distortions and even inventions produced by the drugs). My view, which I didn't elaborate, is that most human artworks begin with what is actually visible, actually encountered, in local reality, and that works of imagination and invention work from that base.

The rest of that post was a general statement about the currently changing paradigm in science and other fields of investigation -- that our general view of what is real increasingly recognizes both the subjective and objective poles of reality, and that to understand their interpenetration requires a more holistic, holographic view of mind and world (supported by many thinkers as an effect of the quantum entanglement of information evolving in time and leaving traces in the collective consciousness and subconsciousness of our species). I hope that clarifies what I posted. If it doesn't, I'm glad that you've decided to let it go.

 

[Constance]

Ayahuasca is like LSD, a drug. But a drug with teaching capabilities. They are not to be played with. They are not recreational. They release the stuff about ourselves our ego tries to hide very well. One should never go into those without help. Remember that I told you in our PMs my father-in-law was one of those pioneers in the US and Canada with LSD research? He always kept the belief LSD is a great tool, but only coupled with psychotherapy.

I think that makes great sense. Because we are part of a real (physical) world, we adapt to the concrete conditions of our lives in this world and we construct a world view to interpret what our existence and the world's existence means on the basis of our perceptions. For many people in our time, both our existence and the world's existence mean nothing, or nothing of deep significance for ourselves. To change our perceptions (to open the doors of our perception, whether through drugs or meditation and related spiritual practices) is to move beyond the safe boundaries of our accustomed ideas about reality, to move into an expanded and sometimes frightening sense of what is or might be real. And that would naturally destabilize our sense of homeostasis, disturb our sense of being able to cope with a larger and more unpredictable environment of being. And thus provoke potential psychological breakdowns.

 

[Constance]

Thinking further about what I posted above, I want to add a comment about the courage it has required for the early experimenters with LSD and those now experimenting with ayahuasca to enter into experiences that break down the boundaries between our general consensual ideas about reality and that which lies beyond them. It seems apparent that what comes up in those barrier-breaking experiences is information normally unavailable to us, stored in the subconscious and collective unconscious, and -- more profoundly -- the recognition of the fluidity of the boundaries of situated waking consciousness and the recognition that more lies beyond them.

This is a kind of courage I don't have. I never tried LSD and I am afraid to try ayahuasca. I never tried nitrous oxide during dental procedures until once, in the first year or two after my daughter's 'death', I tried it to see if in the altered state of consciousness it can produce I would be able to come closer to her. I thought of trying meditation during that first year, but my grief counselor (a transpersonal psychologist, as I mentioned) advised against doing this while I will still in an acute state of grieving. Meditation, like drug-assisted altered states, also takes us up to and beyond the boundaries of our usual state of mind accommodated to a local reality, a conception of reality, limited by presuppositions about what is 'real'. These presuppositions have supported our adjustment to the physical, practical, situation or conditions within which contemporary humans have learned to function 'normally'. And it is frightening to give them up, so frightening that it 'undoes' some people psychologically..

These presuppositions are props to our 'normal' sense of reality, our ability to function in the interpreted world in which our generation lives, defined for us by the dominant materialist presuppositions of modern science and (as a result) much of contemporary philosophy. So there is something very significant going on, I think, in the increasing interest in ayahuasca and similar substances as a means to breaking down within oneself the rigid boundaries of consensual reality, to exploring what else can or might be learned from the deeper strata of human consciousness about the being we are part of. This is why it is inappropriate to characterize all experimentation with altered states as an effort to 'get high'. Certainly many people (especially the young) seek out and use mind-altering substances for that purpose, or for escape from insufferable life situations {which points to the failure of the humanly constructed world of the present to meet the psychic needs of people even here in the center of the current empire}. But the explorers of the mind through DMT, ayahuasca, LSD are attempting something more serious -- a deeper understanding of the nature of ourselves and our experience as an organic part of what-is as a whole.

Sorry for the ramble, but I needed to get that expressed.

 

[Burnt State]

I've got country internet ... so I can't stream ("I don't know, you naughty boy, I've never streamed.") :-(

it was a long shot water sequence punctuated by a sudden waking back into the world from Stalker which I knew you would immediately recognize. that whole movie is mostly an altered state.

 

[Burnt State]

I meditate but it has risks too and should be done with some formal guidance in some kind of context ... and not everyone is temperamentally suited to meditate ... although there are many many techniques available.

I would suggest persons might consider meditating before during and after involvement with psychedelics/entheogens.

"The nihilist void"? It does sound as if you have had some very 'bad trips', perhaps as a result of 'mixing' substances you now regard uniformly as 'toxins'. Are you willing to provide more detailed information? I also wonder how relevant your experiences might be to the standard use of ayahuasca alone.

Like ayahuasca the opportunity LSD provides for an individual to confront the ego and do some good personal deconstruction/reconstruction is a central feature to what can be gained from entheogenic explorations and/or healings. Set and setting continue to define the nature of the experience as we have been continually reminded of throughout this thread and as often explained by Ufocurious.

The only bad trip I've had was tied to set and setting but it was the one trip that taught me the most, and literally altered my life's trajectory for the better. It helps you to see through the false props of your own life crystal clear. The aftermath that follows such confrontations may not be pleasant but these shocks to system can be brutal. Knowledge has a price.

That's much different than the nihilist void, which for me, like meditation, is a very pleasant place to be. All emotion is extracted from existence. Nothing is good nor evil. It just is. And when confronted with the possibility of the end of the world or similar sensations, nothing much matters and all is well. Meditation is a great way to bypass the toll on the system that these other drugs exact from the flesh. You can arrive at the same place and then carry such feelings and attitudes forward without high drama and sans hyperreal hallucinatory dream theatres. All that crapping and vomiting is about the toxin. You can call it a healthy purge but I think that's doublespeak.

 

[Ufocurious]

So there is something very significant going on, I think, in the increasing interest in ayahuasca and similar substances as a means to breaking down within oneself the rigid boundaries of consensual reality, to exploring what else can or might be learned from the deeper strata of human consciousness about the being we are part of. This is why it is inappropriate to characterize all experimentation with altered states as an effort to 'get high'. Certainly many people (especially the young) seek out and use mind-altering substances for that purpose, or for escape from insufferable life situations {which points to the failure of the humanly constructed world of the present to meet the psychic needs of people even here in the center of the current empire}. But the explorers of the mind through DMT, ayahuasca, LSD are attempting something more serious -- a deeper understanding of the nature of ourselves and our experience as an organic part of what-is as a whole.

Dear Constance
First of all, I would like to say you are very brave as you share such personal matters with us.
Moreover, I wanted to say that I think you express well the state of our planet right now when you state: breaking down within oneself the rigid boundaries of consensual reality, to exploring what else can or might be learned from the deeper strata of human consciousness about the being we are part of & the failure of the humanly constructed world of the present to meet the psychic needs of people

I would like to address the failure of the humanly constructed world of the present to meet the psychic needs of people. One of the after effects of Ayahuasca is the increased sensitivity during few days. It was tough to be at work today because I could sense bad energy coming from certain individuals. Luckily they are few, and surprisingly not the ones I would think as bad. I guess it is because they hide it well with a mask of friendliness. But with my sensitivity this high I could empathise with the people that are always like that, people without a tough skin. In a world like ours with so much envy, selfishness and deceit, sensitive people suffer a lot more. It is not surprising so many look for dumbing down their feelings through alcohol and drugs.

 

[boomerang]

Ufocurious, thanks again for sharing your experiences. If I understand correctly, one or a few sessions with Ayahuasca brings about the need for a period of abstinence to allow the psyche to process the meaning of encounters with self after taking DMT .

I'm a semi-regular listener to Brian Rose on London Real. Rose, and Graham Hancock as well, have been on a number of Ayahuasca journeys and seem to stress the need for time and inner reflection if personal benefits are to be fully realized. This is, at least, my interpretation.

 

[Ufocurious]

Ufocurious, thanks again for sharing your experiences. If I understand correctly, one or a few sessions with Ayahuasca brings about the need for a period of abstinence to allow the psyche to process the meaning of encounters with self after taking DMT .

Absolutely. Furthermore, I have had spiritual experiences, and they are so much better than the ones I had with Ayahuasca. I rather go on that path. But that is my experience. I cannot say how it is for other people.
The fact that I could control the DMT still surprises me. I have never heard of that. It was like the Ayahuasca was letting me compare our reality and the DMT induced one, and how easy is to get lost in the latter.
I am afraid the Ayahuasca adventure is over for me, at least for a looooooooong time.
The Avatar I chose is exactly what I saw on my second experience, the grid and I was above it. Going into it was going down, not up towards the light. I thought nothing of it at the time, but now I realize that what I want is the top connection, with the golden light that comes from above, the sunny side of our existence.

 

[Stagger Lee]

Ufocurious,
I am now curious. If you don't mind me asking, in what way was your father in law a pioneer of lsd study? I considered myself something of a student of experiencing the effects of music after ingesting- back in the late 80's and early 90's.

 

[smcder]

Like ayahuasca the opportunity LSD provides for an individual to confront the ego and do some good personal deconstruction/reconstruction is a central feature to what can be gained from entheogenic explorations and/or healings. Set and setting continue to define the nature of the experience as we have been continually reminded of throughout this thread and as often explained by Ufocurious.

The only bad trip I've had was tied to set and setting but it was the one trip that taught me the most, and literally altered my life's trajectory for the better. It helps you to see through the false props of your own life crystal clear. The aftermath that follows such confrontations may not be pleasant but these shocks to system can be brutal. Knowledge has a price.

That's much different than the nihilist void, which for me, like meditation, is a very pleasant place to be. All emotion is extracted from existence. Nothing is good nor evil. It just is. And when confronted with the possibility of the end of the world or similar sensations, nothing much matters and all is well. Meditation is a great way to bypass the toll on the system that these other drugs exact from the flesh. You can arrive at the same place and then carry such feelings and attitudes forward without high drama and sans hyperreal hallucinatory dream theatres. All that crapping and vomiting is about the toxin. You can call it a healthy purge but I think that's doublespeak.

Meditation has not always been a pleasant experience in the moment for me and remember the Buddha's confrontation with Maya before awakening ... all the demons are there and can be just as vivid and weird in meditation - there are also the dark nights of the senses and soul ... I wish I could find the quote or maybe it was a discussion where it was said that a very advanced meditator I believe in a Tibetan tradition was given a powerful hallucinogenic and shrugged it off ... so? I've seen all that before ... I believe he returned to the breath. ;-)

 

[Burnt State]

The Avatar I chose is exactly what I saw on my second experience, the grid and I was above it. Going into it was going down, not up towards the light. I thought nothing of it at the time, but now I realize that what I want is the top connection, with the golden light that comes from above, the sunny side of our existence.

everyone should aspire to be wanting top connection.

 

[Ufocurious]

Ufocurious,
I am now curious. If you don't mind me asking, in what way was your father in law a pioneer of lsd study? I considered myself something of a student of experiencing the effects of music after ingesting- back in the late 80's and early 90's.[/QUOTE

He is (90 yo) a psychiatrist. He graduated in 1950, and from that point on his research was all about drugs + psychotherapy. Of course, he is one of the guys who likes to hide he did LSD research on war veterans with severe depression. Once LSD research became marginal he happily moved to other approved drugs. However he admitted 2 things: LSD can trigger psychosis/schizophrenia if one has the genetic markings, and treatments with whatever drugs without psychotherapy is never a good choice.