• NEW! LOWEST RATES EVER -- SUPPORT THE SHOW AND ENJOY THE VERY BEST PREMIUM PARACAST EXPERIENCE! Welcome to The Paracast+, eight years young! For a low subscription fee, you can download the ad-free version of The Paracast and the exclusive, member-only, After The Paracast bonus podcast, featuring color commentary, exclusive interviews, the continuation of interviews that began on the main episode of The Paracast. We also offer lifetime memberships! Flash! Take advantage of our lowest rates ever! Act now! It's easier than ever to susbcribe! You can sign up right here!

    Subscribe to The Paracast Newsletter!

Thoughts on conscience, entities, ufos plus AYAHUASCA

Free episodes:

When facing the nihilist void I always ask myself WWND?
Und wenn du lange in einen Abgrund blickst, blickt der Abgrund auch in dich hinein. - Fred Nietzsche

Or, if you prefer the movie:

A torinói ló (2011) - IMDb

Steve, I had to find out about this film you cite. Here is a review posted first at IMDb that seems to characterize the seriousness of the film very well:

"Heavy going perhaps, but a masterpiece
22 July 2011 | by Chris_Docker (United Kingdom) – See all my reviews
How can you make someone see what is staring them in the face?

Tarr is nothing if not serious cinema. It may not move, entertain or give you a thrill to the bottom of your popcorn. But it is also, for many cineastes, a standard by which other art cinema can measured. And if that introduction is overweening, perhaps it will deter anyone even vaguely faintly thinking about popcorn - but encourage serious-minded cinema-goers to consider dropping everything to see this.

Hungarian Grandmaster Bela Tarr uses a technique made famous by Russian director Andrei Tarkovsky – that of incredibly long takes. We are forced to immerse ourselves in real time, to experience the minutiae of existence (and its totality) in the same way the characters do. But in terms of 'suspension of beliefs', Tarr goes one stage further than Tarkovsky. The latter's films were often connected with metaphysics and decorated with religious iconography; whereas Tarr eschews God and religion in favour of the people, in favour of human rights, in favour of righting wrongs, or simply in favour of what is most basic to any individual. At times seen as heavily political, his films are careful to portray only a 'documentarist' style reality. They are films designed to make you think, rather than make you entertained. In this respect, his work preserves a thread from the fierce artistic integrity of Godard - perhaps by way of Fassbinder, who would also at times exemplify a fierce minimalistic style.

In The Turin Horse, Tarr gives us a six-day prelude to an actual event that we never see. Even in those six days, nothing very much happens – yet you could probably write a Masters philosophy dissertation on that 'nothing very much.' The ontological lynchpin of the film is Nietzsche: in terms of storyline and also the dilemmas a viewer might confront.

Our movie begins by informing us of a well-known tale concerning the German philosopher. Nietzsche had caused a public disturbance – apparently by attempting to save a horse being flogged. Immediately afterwards, Nietzsche collapses and succumbs to mental illness. He will remain that way for the rest of his life. Tarr's film is an imagined reconstruction of the days leading up to the incident. It features the ailing horseman, his grown-up daughter, a visitor who provides the film's only monologue, and a brief visit by a band of gypsies. The horseman and his daughter live in the most spartan of conditions trying to survive, surrounded by a harsh and barren landscape. He probably would have rejected Nietzsche's philosophy, the rejection (or death) of God, and the idea of the 'slave-morality' dominating society. Indeed, the horseman dismisses the reflections of the visitor, whose thoughts are perhaps a shadow of Nietzschean ideas, as "rubbish." We can perceive a shift from classical belief to atheism as the ideas move quite politically: 'man is responsible for his own fate, but there is something greater that takes a hand' - yet that 'something' might be nature, rather than 'God' and it seems undeniably demonstrated in the harsh conditions that gradually drive the horseman and his daughter nearer extinction. Or it could, of course, be 'the ruling classes.' But this is not a film where intellectual arguments are expounded or debated. Most of the dialogue, in the rare instances where dialogue occurs, comprises an occasional monosyllable. The film is in black and white, and consists of merely thirty long takes – that would be excruciating were they not mesmerizingly beautiful. Each shot is perfectly composed, right down to the individual hairs on the horseman's Rasputinish beard. (This is one reason why it could not work as well on a small screen – the other being that its impact depends on being a captive audience.) As in The Man from London, Tarr uses environment as main 'characters' – the buildings, the landscape. They are 'major players.' This gives not only a tremendous sense of grandeur and majesty in simple images, but allows Tarr to convey a more cosmic point, even with such a miniscule budget. The characters each form a microcosm, doing what they do (what Man does) in order to survive. We are aware of the oppression and hardship of the plebiscite – oppression we can say is caused by 'conditions', but equally by the ruling classes. Dirge-like music, a daily meal of boiled potatoes eaten without cutlery, and a bleakness from which there is no apparent escape.

On the Second Day, the horse, once hitched, won't move. The daughter expresses some sympathy for its abject refusal. Yet the horse's gradual deterioration (to a point where it is starving itself to death) almost mirrors the plight of its owners. The horseman and daughter struggle against becoming dehumanised: he by fighting, she by gentleness. What does it mean to be human? As the wind whips dust across the landscape, she reads of the "holy places violated."

The downsides of The Turin Horse are that, given its minority-appeal audience, most people will only see it on DVD. The political landscape about which Tarr is so passionate demands extra study in order to be illuminated by the film. Nietzsche declared that art is the proper task of life, that it is not merely an imitation of the reality of nature, but a metaphysical supplement to nature's reality. But can The Turin Horse stand philosophically on its own merits? Some may feel that Tarr has indeed flogged his point to death, and fails to offer any man or super-man to triumph at the end of his inevitable Gotterdammerung.

Constant use of steadicam gives the impression that we are personally observing what happens - even when all motion stops and the last light is extinguished. Susan Sontag once championed Tarr as a saviour of the modern cinema. If she had lived to see this, probably his last film, she surely would probably have felt doubly justified."

The grief that overwhelmed Nietzsche enough to drive him mad is the one we must all face if we are ever to redeem what our species has permitted to be done to ourselves and to all other living beings on the earth.
 
I don't think so, but it will take a long time to develop the reasons why. The conversation in this thread in the last week has come close to expressing critically important issues in consciousness studies and in the general trend toward thinking holistically about the nature of reality in contemporary culture.
Can you elaborate on what you mean by, "...thinking holistically about the nature of reality in contemporary culture." ? If we are to think holistically about the nature of reality, doesn't that imply that there is more than one "nature" of reality that we're trying to stuff into one box? What is the advantage of doing that?
 
Can you elaborate on what you mean by, "...thinking holistically about the nature of reality in contemporary culture." ? If we are to think holistically about the nature of reality, doesn't that imply that there is more than one "nature" of reality that we're trying to stuff into one box? What is the advantage of doing that?

I should probably have written: "thinking holistically now, in contemporary culture, about the nature of reality." Re your question in blue, thinking holistically about nature and what we know and learn of it through our embodied consciousness and mind means one nature, one reality, which we are still on the way to uncovering on many levels of our experience in this reality.
 
Steve, I had to find out about this film you cite. Here is a review posted first at IMDb that seems to characterize the seriousness of the film very well:

"Heavy going perhaps, but a masterpiece
22 July 2011 | by Chris_Docker (United Kingdom) – See all my reviews
How can you make someone see what is staring them in the face?

Tarr is nothing if not serious cinema. It may not move, entertain or give you a thrill to the bottom of your popcorn. But it is also, for many cineastes, a standard by which other art cinema can measured. And if that introduction is overweening, perhaps it will deter anyone even vaguely faintly thinking about popcorn - but encourage serious-minded cinema-goers to consider dropping everything to see this.

Hungarian Grandmaster Bela Tarr uses a technique made famous by Russian director Andrei Tarkovsky – that of incredibly long takes. We are forced to immerse ourselves in real time, to experience the minutiae of existence (and its totality) in the same way the characters do. But in terms of 'suspension of beliefs', Tarr goes one stage further than Tarkovsky. The latter's films were often connected with metaphysics and decorated with religious iconography; whereas Tarr eschews God and religion in favour of the people, in favour of human rights, in favour of righting wrongs, or simply in favour of what is most basic to any individual. At times seen as heavily political, his films are careful to portray only a 'documentarist' style reality. They are films designed to make you think, rather than make you entertained. In this respect, his work preserves a thread from the fierce artistic integrity of Godard - perhaps by way of Fassbinder, who would also at times exemplify a fierce minimalistic style.

In The Turin Horse, Tarr gives us a six-day prelude to an actual event that we never see. Even in those six days, nothing very much happens – yet you could probably write a Masters philosophy dissertation on that 'nothing very much.' The ontological lynchpin of the film is Nietzsche: in terms of storyline and also the dilemmas a viewer might confront.

Our movie begins by informing us of a well-known tale concerning the German philosopher. Nietzsche had caused a public disturbance – apparently by attempting to save a horse being flogged. Immediately afterwards, Nietzsche collapses and succumbs to mental illness. He will remain that way for the rest of his life. Tarr's film is an imagined reconstruction of the days leading up to the incident. It features the ailing horseman, his grown-up daughter, a visitor who provides the film's only monologue, and a brief visit by a band of gypsies. The horseman and his daughter live in the most spartan of conditions trying to survive, surrounded by a harsh and barren landscape. He probably would have rejected Nietzsche's philosophy, the rejection (or death) of God, and the idea of the 'slave-morality' dominating society. Indeed, the horseman dismisses the reflections of the visitor, whose thoughts are perhaps a shadow of Nietzschean ideas, as "rubbish." We can perceive a shift from classical belief to atheism as the ideas move quite politically: 'man is responsible for his own fate, but there is something greater that takes a hand' - yet that 'something' might be nature, rather than 'God' and it seems undeniably demonstrated in the harsh conditions that gradually drive the horseman and his daughter nearer extinction. Or it could, of course, be 'the ruling classes.' But this is not a film where intellectual arguments are expounded or debated. Most of the dialogue, in the rare instances where dialogue occurs, comprises an occasional monosyllable. The film is in black and white, and consists of merely thirty long takes – that would be excruciating were they not mesmerizingly beautiful. Each shot is perfectly composed, right down to the individual hairs on the horseman's Rasputinish beard. (This is one reason why it could not work as well on a small screen – the other being that its impact depends on being a captive audience.) As in The Man from London, Tarr uses environment as main 'characters' – the buildings, the landscape. They are 'major players.' This gives not only a tremendous sense of grandeur and majesty in simple images, but allows Tarr to convey a more cosmic point, even with such a miniscule budget. The characters each form a microcosm, doing what they do (what Man does) in order to survive. We are aware of the oppression and hardship of the plebiscite – oppression we can say is caused by 'conditions', but equally by the ruling classes. Dirge-like music, a daily meal of boiled potatoes eaten without cutlery, and a bleakness from which there is no apparent escape.

On the Second Day, the horse, once hitched, won't move. The daughter expresses some sympathy for its abject refusal. Yet the horse's gradual deterioration (to a point where it is starving itself to death) almost mirrors the plight of its owners. The horseman and daughter struggle against becoming dehumanised: he by fighting, she by gentleness. What does it mean to be human? As the wind whips dust across the landscape, she reads of the "holy places violated."

The downsides of The Turin Horse are that, given its minority-appeal audience, most people will only see it on DVD. The political landscape about which Tarr is so passionate demands extra study in order to be illuminated by the film. Nietzsche declared that art is the proper task of life, that it is not merely an imitation of the reality of nature, but a metaphysical supplement to nature's reality. But can The Turin Horse stand philosophically on its own merits? Some may feel that Tarr has indeed flogged his point to death, and fails to offer any man or super-man to triumph at the end of his inevitable Gotterdammerung.

Constant use of steadicam gives the impression that we are personally observing what happens - even when all motion stops and the last light is extinguished. Susan Sontag once championed Tarr as a saviour of the modern cinema. If she had lived to see this, probably his last film, she surely would probably have felt doubly justified."

The grief that overwhelmed Nietzsche enough to drive him mad is the one we must all face if we are ever to redeem what our species has permitted to be done to ourselves and to all other living beings on the earth.

I'm going to skip this review until I watch the film, sometimes I get an intuition not to know anything about a film before I watch it.

I've only seen Tarr's Werckmeister Harmonies ... he is a master of the looong shot - Werckmeiseter Harmonies has 39 single camera shots ... compare this to hundreds of shots from multiple cameras in the average feature ... some people call such film-making slow ... but ain't necessarily so.

The record, for the record, is one: Russian Ark ... Hitchcock's Rope cuts at the end of each reel but is done so it appears as a single, continuous shot.

Nietzsche's collapse is one of the more dramatic incidents in philosophy (eclipsed by the possibly apocryphal Eureka! incident, involving as it did male nudity ... Socrates demise on the other hand, loses points because of his long-windedness.)

Last words more relevant to this thread is Aldous Huxley's request to his wife:

LSD, 100 micrograms I.M. (she complied, twice)
 
I should probably have written: "thinking holistically now, in contemporary culture, about the nature of reality." Re your question in blue, thinking holistically about nature and what we know and learn of it through our embodied consciousness and mind means one nature, one reality, which we are still on the way to uncovering on many levels of our experience in this reality.

Sorry but I'm still not sure I follow. On one hand we have "nature", which you seem to be using synonymously with existence, or are you using the word nature as synonymous with "wild" as in the difference between being out in nature as opposed to being in the city among human or artificial constructs? I really don't mean to sound picky, but unless we get these concepts nailed down, I have no way of being sure what it is you are trying to convey.
 
Constance, i agree with a lot of what you wrote.

In that specific dmt example, an isolated one at that, it seems that the indivudual's pursuit of a rocketship high led him to an experience he personally connected to the Heaven's Gate crew, my own Ufological nemesis. Yes, drugs expand consciousness and create intensities of feelings very difficult to forget, but not all things found here are truths. I advocate meditation before drugs to explore or to heal. And btw some meditators also report "alien" contact. So before I would reach out to telepathic communication from unknown entities as the source I would look more closely at the commonalities that go along with certain experiences taking place inside the common, finite territory of the cerebellum and our society. I like John Mack's work over Hopkins' but would debate the source of the internal experience still.

The experience of seeing different types of aliens (reptilian, greys, Nordics etc.), elves, dwarves etc. appear to have socio-cultural connections, as do even the different kinds of ships seem to be tied to different geographies and points in time. I've often thought that what we see, think we see, or hallucinate, are very much tied to the nature of the stimulus and its interaction with our own culturally programmed, or frontloaded, experiences.

If we could separate the witnesses of nuts and bolts craft from the experiencesrs of ayhuasca I would argue that what they are seeing has everything to do with the drug and it's specific effects: again examples above include goblin acid & e.l.wisty's reference to a common substance that routinely produces violent imagery for the experiencer. So it's not really about an external agent, but an internal effect tied mostly to the chemistries involved (brain and drug interaction) and the socio-cultural parameters of the experiencer. Set and setting define much of any hallucinogenic experience.

Consistency in DMT then is about its chemistry more than anything else. The reporting of a vision as a substantial reality being experienced is not about stepping into an actual dimension IMHO but all about the same feelings one has upon waking up from a dream that features many familiar faces from the real world and in an environment that felt real, and so we wake up often with the same feelings as if that dream really did happen. Some dreams have impact for days, months maybe; some are even unforgettable. But just like powerful drug induced experiences, it does not mean they are real, no matter the emotional intensity or conviction the experiencer brings to the table. It's still an entheogenic fabrication. No telepathy at all.

What I agree very much with is the opportunity to see an interconnectivity or even an understanding of certain processes, or perhaps even hidden knowledge, that may come out of the hallucinogenic experience. It certainly allows people in some cases to eradicate the veil of consumer society & see through notions of pretense, fabrication and some of the junk we've all been brainwashed with. Some people do this by thinking it through, meditating, and others take mushrooms and are then allowed to remove the traditional anxiety that mortality brings to us. Others though may stumble directly into a rearrangement of reality, and contrary to some above posts, I do know people who walked through the doors of perception and then could not walk back through; because, their mind got rearranged by the drugs permanently and they have never been the same since.

As for personal, carefully planned research into ayhuasca, I see this as a positive if it is a positive for the person choosing that path and who am I to say otherwise. That's what free will is all about.

Originally posted in the C&P thread ...

Discarnate Entities and Dimethyltryptamine (DMT): Psychopharmacology, phenomenology and ontology | David Luke - Academia.edu
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hmm, I've lost the thread in these last two [correction: three] posts. Burnt's post (or perhaps link or image) doesn't show up at all on my computer screen. And I can't get Steve's post without understanding what gives. Help?
 
Last edited:
Sorry but I'm still not sure I follow. On one hand we have "nature", which you seem to be using synonymously with existence, or are you using the word nature as synonymous with "wild" as in the difference between being out in nature as opposed to being in the city among human or artificial constructs? I really don't mean to sound picky, but unless we get these concepts nailed down, I have no way of being sure what it is you are trying to convey.

Randall, if you honestly cannot understand what Constance is saying - referring to, meaning - methinks perhaps you are out of your depth, out of your league. Give it up. ;)
 
Sorry but I'm still not sure I follow. On one hand we have "nature", which you seem to be using synonymously with existence, or are you using the word nature as synonymous with "wild" as in the difference between being out in nature as opposed to being in the city among human or artificial constructs? I really don't mean to sound picky, but unless we get these concepts nailed down, I have no way of being sure what it is you are trying to convey.

As Tyger suggests, what I mean would be clear to you if you had followed the C&P thread, even just Part 2 of it. Recent extracts from and links there to Edgar Mitchell, Jaak Panksepp, and Karl Pribram within the last week would probably be the most helpful orientations. Much of the present thread has also provided several perspectives on what posters here consider to be the nature and structure of reality.
 

Steve, is that essay available in whole at the site you linked to? I noticed that a link is provided after the extract to scribd.com, which as I reported here a while back caused a persistent malware virus in my computer after I downloaded two papers from it. It looks like joining the site you linked to read the paper would be the best bet.
 
Steve, is that essay available in whole at the site you linked to? I noticed that a link is provided after the extract to scribd.com, which as I reported here a while back caused a persistent malware virus in my computer after I downloaded two papers from it. It looks like joining the site you linked to read the paper would be the best bet.

I believe so and it should be free.
 
fwiw, being that i spend a lot of my online time on my phone I downloaded the doc via the scribd app. To date I've never had any issues w/it.

I'll also let you in on a secret, if anyone does use the scribd app and found to their chagrin that the doc is available only via the app you can go to your phones file browser and rename the content file i.e. give the doc a .pdf extension and then open the document with any pdf reader.
 
fwiw, being that i spend a lot of my online time on my phone I downloaded the doc via the scribd app. To date I've never had any issues w/it.

I'll also let you in on a secret, if anyone does use the scribd app and found to their chagrin that the doc is available only via the app you can go to your phones file browser and rename the content file i.e. give the doc a .pdf extension and then open the document with any pdf reader.

I didn't know scribd had an app. Believe it or not, I actually have no apps that I know of, don't actually know what they are, generally don't want to get involved in more technology. I contracted the malware just after downloading two papers directly from the scribd site. That might not have happened if I signed on for their app. (?)
 
As Tyger suggests, what I mean would be clear to you if you had followed the C&P thread, even just Part 2 of it. Recent extracts from and links there to Edgar Mitchell, Jaak Panksepp, and Karl Pribram within the last week would probably be the most helpful orientations. Much of the present thread has also provided several perspectives on what posters here consider to be the nature and structure of reality.

Good point. This isn't the best thread to discuss the details of your post. I'll leave you to contemplate it further over on Tyger's "C & P thread" where @Pharoah has made some very fine posts.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top