UFOs and the spiritual angle

[Martina]

UFO’s and the spiritual angle

I saw my first UFO at age 13, before I’d ever heard of UFO’s or had any notion of them at all. It was a solid silver metallic craft obviously under intelligent control, and only 200 yards from me. It was absolutely real. I could see a slight vapor coming off the leading edge of it and hear it splitting the air.

Had it landed I could have walked up and touched it.

I like what I can see and touch and verify for myself. What I don’t so much like is when ufology takes this ridculous left turn off in to spirituality, mysticism, psychic phenomena, channeling and so forth. To me this smacks of pure bunk put out there by people with some serious identity issues and who have a need to draw attention to themselves as someone special.

I run into this all the time online, and I automatically discount the credibility of those spewing this pablum. I am not prepared to believe such people as Nancy Leider, (Zeta Talk) who claims to be channeling messages from aliens on Zeta Reticuli who will conveniently only talk to her, and charging suckers money for it.

Nor do I take seriously at all those who claim to be in psychic contact with aliens, and somehow are therefore spiritually superior to the rest of us, having special knowledge of ET’s plans for the earth and mission here, and communicating that to the rest of us.

I’m interested in physical evidence period. Show me the ship, submit the video or photos for analysis, and let’s see the trace evidence if any. In short, be able to prove something and don’t give me this nebulous mystical baloney, because it’s obvious BS and it’s what so discredits ufology with the intelligent public and gives rise the the giggle factor.

I used to take Steven Greer seriously until he went off track that way, and then I found out he lied about having briefed a sitting CIA director.

I used to think there was something to Robert Dean’s stories, until his wife started charging money for UFO and alien contact seminars, and both she and Robert claimed to have lived previous lives in ancient Sumeria.

Now I’m seeing this same kind of bovine effluent coming from David Wilcock on his Divine Cosmos website, and similar junk being spewed by his contemporaries with Project Camelot.

I regard David Icke as an obvious profiteer exploiting the public’s credulity, and Bill Ryan strikes me as just another street person out of Haight Ashbury with an over the top rap designed to impress and suck people in.

Serious science I respect and pay attention to. Hard physical evidence and credible, verifiable photo/video evidence I respect, but not this mystical/spiritual/psychic crap.

I’ve seen the craft, more than once, and it was obvious they were not ours. I know they are here, whoever they are, and I have no doubt about that. I believe they are extraterrestrials.

What I don’t believe are all the nutbars who would have us believe they have some unverifiable special relationship with them or knowledge of them based on some spiritual or psychic connection and cultivating a cult of personality around themselves.

Stanton Friedman I can take seriously. Nancy Leider? Give me a break!

 

[dyingsun]

UFO’s and the spiritual angle

I saw my first UFO at age 13, before I’d ever heard of UFO’s or had any notion of them at all. It was a solid silver metallic craft obviously under intelligent control, and only 200 yards from me. It was absolutely real. I could see a slight vapor coming off the leading edge of it and hear it splitting the air.

Had it landed I could have walked up and touched it.

I like what I can see and touch and verify for myself. What I don’t so much like is when ufology takes this ridculous left turn off in to spirituality, mysticism, psychic phenomena, channeling and so forth. To me this smacks of pure bunk put out there by people with some serious identity issues and who have a need to draw attention to themselves as someone special.

I run into this all the time online, and I automatically discount the credibility of those spewing this pablum. I am not prepared to believe such people as Nancy Leider, (Zeta Talk) who claims to be channeling messages from aliens on Zeta Reticuli who will conveniently only talk to her, and charging suckers money for it.

Nor do I take seriously at all those who claim to be in psychic contact with aliens, and somehow are therefore spiritually superior to the rest of us, having special knowledge of ET’s plans for the earth and mission here, and communicating that to the rest of us.

I’m interested in physical evidence period. Show me the ship, submit the video or photos for analysis, and let’s see the trace evidence if any. In short, be able to prove something and don’t give me this nebulous mystical baloney, because it’s obvious BS and it’s what so discredits ufology with the intelligent public and gives rise the the giggle factor.

I used to take Steven Greer seriously until he went off track that way, and then I found out he lied about having briefed a sitting CIA director.

I used to think there was something to Robert Dean’s stories, until his wife started charging money for UFO and alien contact seminars, and both she and Robert claimed to have lived previous lives in ancient Sumeria.

Now I’m seeing this same kind of bovine effluent coming from David Wilcock on his Divine Cosmos website, and similar junk being spewed by his contemporaries with Project Camelot.

I regard David Icke as an obvious profiteer exploiting the public’s credulity, and Bill Ryan strikes me as just another street person out of Haight Ashbury with an over the top rap designed to impress and suck people in.

Serious science I respect and pay attention to. Hard physical evidence and credible, verifiable photo/video evidence I respect, but not this mystical/spiritual/psychic crap.

I’ve seen the craft, more than once, and it was obvious they were not ours. I know they are here, whoever they are, and I have no doubt about that. I believe they are extraterrestrials.

What I don’t believe are all the nutbars who would have us believe they have some unverifiable special relationship with them or knowledge of them based on some spiritual or psychic connection and cultivating a cult of personality around themselves.

Stanton Friedman I can take seriously. Nancy Leider? Give me a break!

I find it a little odd that you summed up most of, if not all, concerns about questionable people in the 'field' (cough) on here in one post. Do continue...

DS, paranormal Dick Tracy.

 

[tyder001]

"Serious Sceintist" don't spend a lot of time on u.f.o.'s as "spaceman spiff."

 

[trainedobserver]

...What I don’t so much like is when ufology takes this ridculous left turn off in to spirituality, mysticism, psychic phenomena, channeling and so forth. ...

I've never seen a UFO myself, but I agree with everything you said in your post. Welcome to the forum.

 

[Martina]

I find it a little odd that you summed up most of, if not all, concerns about questionable people in the 'field' (cough) on here in one post. Do continue...

DS, paranormal Dick Tracy.

What's so odd about that?

---------- Post added at 10:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:30 AM ----------

I've never seen a UFO myself, but I agree with everything you said in your post. Welcome to the forum.

Thank you sir. I just felt like a rant, and I've seen so much of that crap all over the net. I feel it's a very large part of why so many ridicule anyone who so much as mentions having seen a UFO. I mentioned my first sighting on a social forum a couple years ago and was promptly pounced upon by a flamer who ridiculed me asking if bigfoot was flying it, and went on to publicly bash me in quite nasty ways.

With all the nutbar garbage being put out there anyone seriously interested in the subject is often automatically assumed to be loony and a kook. I don't appreciate that at all. I know what I saw on three occasions and I certainly didn't channel it or dream it, or telepathically exchange chicken recipes with aliens.

 

[Angel of Ioren]

What's so odd about that?

---------- Post added at 10:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:30 AM ----------



Thank you sir. I just felt like a rant, and I've seen so much of that crap all over the net. I feel it's a very large part of why so many ridicule anyone who so much as mentions having seen a UFO. I mentioned my first sighting on a social forum a couple years ago and was promptly pounced upon by a flamer who ridiculed me asking if bigfoot was flying it, and went on to publicly bash me in quite nasty ways.

With all the nutbar garbage being put out there anyone seriously interested in the subject is often automatically assumed to be loony and a kook. I don't appreciate that at all. I know what I saw on three occasions and I certainly didn't channel it or dream it, or telepathically exchange chicken recipes with aliens.

As long as you don't start making claims that you know what you saw, leaving it as unexplained instead of saying it was non-human technology, no one should make fun of you.

 

[Martina]

I described what I saw in the most objective terms I could, making no assumptions at all about what it was, and sorry, I DO know what I saw. I saw a silver metallic disk about 40 feet in diameter traveling east to west with no engine sounds at all, about 200 yards from me and about 80 feet off the ground in broad daylight, producing a fine vapor on it's leading edge like that you see on the wings of high performance aircraft during maneuvers. I could hear it splitting the air. There was no dome on top but the top half was thicker than the bottom half. That's what I saw. I did not ask to see it and at the time had absolutely no inkling of such things at all. This was in central lower Michigan in 1967 in a rural area about 60 miles west of Ann Arbor.

 

[Angel of Ioren]

I described what I saw in the most objective terms I could, making no assumptions at all about what it was, and sorry, I DO know what I saw. I saw a silver metallic disk about 40 feet in diameter traveling east to west with no engine sounds at all, about 200 yards from me and about 80 feet off the ground in broad daylight, producing a fine vapor on it's leading edge like that you see on the wings of high performance aircraft during maneuvers. I could hear it splitting the air. There was no dome on top but the top half was thicker than the bottom half. That's what I saw. I did not ask to see it and at the time had absolutely no inkling of such things at all. This was in central lower Michigan in 1967 in a rural area about 60 miles west of Ann Arbor.

That's not what I meant. All I'm saying is that you don't make the mistake to say you know that is was non-human technology. I don't doubt that you know what you saw, however, since this was 43 years ago, you need to leave room for the fact that your memory of the object may be different from what you actually saw that day. Over time, things change in our minds, it's a proven fact. That's fair, no?

 

[trainedobserver]

I saw a silver metallic disk about 40 feet in diameter traveling east to west with no engine sounds at all, about 200 yards from me and about 80 feet off the ground in broad daylight, producing a fine vapor on it's leading edge like that you see on the wings of high performance aircraft during maneuvers.

That's an excellent sighting. I appreciate you sharing that. It sounds like you were able to tentatively identify it as a "manufactured object" or so it sounds to me from your description. Did anyone else witness it with you? Were there reports in the area around the time of your sighting as well? Were there any markings or seams visible on the object?

 

[Martina]

No. Not fair. I described what I saw accurately. You seem to be a bit of a debunker. Are you really a moderator on this board, or just claiming to be one?

 

[Angel of Ioren]

No. Not fair. I described what I saw accurately. You seem to be a bit of a debunker. Are you really a moderator on this board, or just claiming to be one?

How am I debunking? If you don't think it's fair that it's possible that your memory of that day is not entirely accurate, I'm sorry to have suggested it. I am just trying to explore all angles. As I said, I do not doubt that you saw something that day, but it's important that we say it's unidentified. There is no way to determine that it is a piece of non-human technology. It may well be something that is not of this Earth, but no one can say for sure. Is that fair?

And yes, I'm a moderator on this board. Gene is extremely open-minded to allow someone like me to be one
I try my best to be a polite skeptic, although I don't always succeed. I think I am asking valid questions in this case though.

 

[pixelsmith]

No. Not fair. I described what I saw accurately. You seem to be a bit of a debunker. Are you really a moderator on this board, or just claiming to be one?

Angel is a valuable contributing member but he is not a good moderator.

A sighting like what you experienced is something a person does not forget easily. I hope someday Angel can experience such an event.

 

[trainedobserver]

No. Not fair. I described what I saw accurately. You seem to be a bit of a debunker. Are you really a moderator on this board, or just claiming to be one?

I don't see any reason for the conversation to go this route.

Angelo brings up a valid point about memory and qualifies it with, "may be different" rather than declaring that it was or must be. I would think that he would agree that (correct me if I'm wrong Angelo) an event which leaves a profound impression on a person, can produce lasting and accurate memories, particularly if those memories are reinforced by notes taken or accounts written about it shortly after it happened. You can speak in generalities about memory but that doesn't mean it is true in each instance.

 

[Martina]

How am I debunking? If you don't think it's fair that it's possible that your memory of that day is not entirely accurate, I'm sorry to have suggested it. I am just trying to explore all angles. As I said, I do not doubt that you saw something that day, but it's important that we say it's unidentified. There is no way to determine that it is a piece of non-human technology. It may well be something that is not of this Earth, but no one can say for sure. Is that fair?
.

I never said it was something not of this earth, if you read my post. I described what I saw, and to cast aspersions on my memory of it is unkind.

 

[Angel of Ioren]

I don't see any reason for the conversation to go this route.

Angelo brings up a valid point about memory and qualifies it with, "may be different" rather than declaring that it was or must be. I would think that he would agree that (correct me if I'm wrong Angelo) an event which leaves a profound impression on a person, can produce lasting and accurate memories, particularly if those memories are reinforced by notes taken or accounts written about it shortly after it happened. You can speak in generalities about memory but that doesn't mean it is true in each instance.

Totally agree with that Rick.

 

[Martina]

I don't see any reason for the conversation to go this route.

Angelo brings up a valid point about memory and qualifies it with, "may be different" rather than declaring that it was or must be. I would think that he would agree that (correct me if I'm wrong Angelo) an event which leaves a profound impression on a person, can produce lasting and accurate memories, particularly if those memories are reinforced by notes taken or accounts written about it shortly after it happened. You can speak in generalities about memory but that doesn't mean it is true in each instance.

Well I won't be posting about what I've seen here again. Obviously this is not the place to admit to having seen such things.

 

[Angel of Ioren]

Well I won't be posting about what I've seen here again. Obviously this is not the place to admit to having seen such things.

Don't let people's questions stop you from posting on the forum. You need to be open to other points of view regardless of whether you agree with them or not.

 

[Martina]

Angel is a valuable contributing member but he is not a good moderator.

A sighting like what you experienced is something a person does not forget easily. I hope someday Angel can experience such an event.

Agreed. I don't find him a particularly good moderator at all. And you are quite correct, it was not something I can ever forget and my memory of it is as clear today as it was then, regardless of what our "moderator" chooses to think of it.

---------- Post added at 11:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:00 AM ----------

That's an excellent sighting. I appreciate you sharing that. It sounds like you were able to tentatively identify it as a "manufactured object" or so it sounds to me from your description. Did anyone else witness it with you? Were there reports in the area around the time of your sighting as well? Were there any markings or seams visible on the object?

Ya know, I think I've said quite enough about it in this thread. I'm not inclined to subject myself to further aspersions from our "moderator". Send me a private message and I'll be happy to answer your questions.

 

[Angel of Ioren]

Agreed. I don't find him a particularly good moderator at all. And you are quite correct, it was not something I can ever forget and my memory of it is as clear today as it was then, regardless of what our "moderator" chooses to think of it.

I asked a simple question. I did not call you a liar, I was only pointing out that it is a fact that many memories fade over time. Is this the case for you? Maybe not. I'm sorry if I offended you - it was not my intention.

 

[trainedobserver]

Ya know, I think I've said quite enough about it in this thread. I'm not inclined to subject myself to further aspersions from our "moderator". Send me a private message and I'll be happy to answer your questions.

I'd ask you to reconsider that and post out here. Angelo has apologized for offending you. Let's move on. I know a lot of folks would be interested to hear the answers and what else you have to say about your experience.