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UFOs and the spiritual angle

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Welcome to Martina! I just wanted to chime in to say that you sound like a level headed person and that after reading many of your posts I think we will agree on many things.

As for memory, I completely agree that memory and other influences are affected over time for given scenarios. But not for others. I will always remember the exact details of the birth of my children or the exact moment I saw my wife in her wedding dress at our wedding. However, I have other incredible/incredulous memories that are suspect and are reinforced by the various recounting of someone else involved. This makes it harder to figure out. I think that the reliability of a memory depends on many factors of the conscious and sub-conscious mind, emotional states, and environmental stimuli at the time the memory is formed.
 
What is memory anyway? One school of thought says memory is a reconstruction using meta-data and is not an actual "recording" of the event as it is generally thought of and referred. Each time you "remember" something you would then be essentially manufacturing the memory anew from information about information you experienced contained in your neural configuration. Neural configurations change with time by new connections being made and old ones being dropped. Connections can be reinforced and/or "copied" through the act of "remembering."

---------- Post added at 07:04 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:01 AM ----------
tyder001 said:
I think a spritual take on life and everything else is legitimate.
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Can you define what you mean by "spiritual take on life?"
 
By "spiritual" I don't mean religion (although I have absolutely no problem with people who pratice religion and have an inner life.) I don't even really mean the beliief or non belief in God/Goddess/Higher Power (at least not in this context.) You could even call it a Pshycological or "mind" take on life. I do have spiritual beliefs based on my own expereince and life but even that isn't what I was talking about in this context. What I was "trying" to say and I "think" I was misunderstood by the ....uhh.."zeal" of the original poster was this:

I wasn't saying she was "lying" or even wrong about what she saw. I tend to jump in whenever I see a "blanket" statement or a dogmatic opinion. Believe me I have many arguments with "religious" folks on other boards and I don't follow blind "dogma." But, I also thought about those folks who say they were "abducted" and they also "saw" something and they "feel" it was real. To say "well, my experience is more legitimate than theirs because what I say was physical" is arrogant and just wrong. Many here (and I happen to agree) point out that some of what abductees experience might be in their mind or dreams or even faulty memory. However, the same can be said of a person who saw a "craft" or a light in the sky. All, I was trying to say (and I must have blown it royally) was that a person should not "put down" others as being idiotic just because they "feel" they have the answers or at least the right questions.

Finally, "ufology?" is that word? Doesn't have a lot of "legitmate" respect anyway. For instance how many "smirking" news anchors lead off with a chuckle and a "little green men" joke before a report. It isn't because of the occult or religion or anything else. It's becaue they have been condictioned by society to simply "not believe" anything that even approaches their idea of the paranormal.

So, I meant no disrespect to the poster or to others. I don't think we are being visited by aliens and I do think we are "possibly" "alone" in the universe. But, I remain open to changing my mind with more evidence.
 
Martina you don't believe in the so called psychic UFO connection crap but do believe they are extra terrestrials. How would you know where they were/are from?
 
I agree. The point is if somebody says "I had a vision" and I know there is something "out there" and somebody else says "I saw a craft in the sky." NEITHER will get my "beleif" just on their word. EITHER of them that calls the other an idiot or a fool will get my "disrespect." We honestly know so very little about consciencess. We know so little about the world and the universe. I am an "ocean" fanatic. The ocean is "god" to me. I was watching a documentary the other night on Nat Geo about how little we know about the ocean. We know more about the "moon" than we do the ocean. We know even less about the big bang and before the big bang (yes some scientist actually have put forth a "theory" that there was a before.) We are in the infancy of knowledge about who and what we are and what the world is. Although I beleive in spirit and have had my own "experience" with spritual reality I'm also very pratical. I don't go to physics and I don't beleive in "mind readers." I have and will agian attempted to get an "evp" but so far have not gotten anything. I have heard some recordings that are provacative. BUT, nothing that has "convinced" me that it is actually voices of the dead. When it comes to the paranormal I would have to "expereince" it myself to beleive it. U.F.O's? I would have to walk up to the craft and touch it and "see" an alien walk out of it. Then I would have to actually "see" scientist examine the alien and coem out and pronounce that it was a person/being/creature/presence from another world. Then I "might" be able to get my mind around it. :-) Seriously, that is what it would take. Paranormal? Spirit? I have had my own encounters (as I've said.) but NO I'm not absolutely sure my mind wasn't playing tricks on me. I would never tell you that I have the "truth" of the immortal soul and you should do "what I say." On the other hand I would never lay down my lifetime of prayer and meditation and comfort and hope in "my" journey with God/Spirit/Consiuness just becaue somebody else can't believe it or finds a nerve in the brain that makes me smell roses. :-) I am a true "skeptic." I don't blindly follow and I don't blindly believe anybody. I will take your story and your accounts into my thoughts but I will still have my thoughts. So if the new poster thinks I'm rude or a "flamer" then so be it. But, I will be honest with ya. :-)
 
The Pair of Cats said:
Martina you don't believe in the so called psychic UFO connection crap but do believe they are extra terrestrials. How would you know where they were/are from?
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The simple answer is there is no way to know. It is an opinion. Dispite the fact that you are a first hand witness does not make your opinion more right than someone who is not a witness. If you are correct then you guessed well, and that is all. The only thing you can be sure of is that you saw what you saw and can describe it. Even that level of surety is non transferrable to others.

Also, if you are claiming the application of reason for being able to dsmiss as "crap" other interpretations or hypothesis of the phenomenon other than nuts and bolts ETH, you are begging the question big time. There is just nothing in that circular line of reasoning that has any firm anchor.
 
Oh I didn't say I know where they are from, I just don't believe they are from this planet, and I suppose I arrived at that conclusion the same way the Air Force and the CIA did.
 
Martina said:
Oh I didn't say I know where they are from, I just don't believe they are from this planet, and I suppose I arrived at that conclusion the same way the Air Force and the CIA did.
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Just as there are more mundane explanations there are also more exotic theories. Things like time travellers, extra-dimensional entities and crypto-terrestrials, all of which get discussed around these here parts from time to time...
 
CapnG said:
Just as there are more mundane explanations there are also more exotic theories. Things like time travellers, extra-dimensional entities and crypto-terrestrials, all of which get discussed around these here parts from time to time...
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I can't really speak to any of those more exotic theories, and we are all speculating when you get right down to it since we can't prove any of our theories. All we can really do is try to explain the observed phenomena to ourselves as best we can. My best guess is that some of the craft observed are not ours and not from around here. As for the extra-dimensional theory, I think it more likely that the craft observed simply disappearing or appearing out of nowhere have the means to hide outside the light spectrum we can perceive, rather than vanishing into another dimension.

The UFO's observed from an aircraft by Mexican authorities on FLIR were not visible to them without it, but on the FLIR there they were. I've heard of other cases like this as well, so I'm not inclined to assume extra-dimensional capability where a simpler explanation makes sense and seems to have been documented.
 
Riiight cause we have "documentation" that they were from off planet! But the very "idea" that there could be other dimensions is faaaar away less "pratical" than Mork from Ork and his space ship! :-)

Course it could all be earthly (much more pratical and likely when ya think bout it.) :-)
 
Martina said:
I think it more likely that the craft observed simply disappearing or appearing out of nowhere have the means to hide outside the light spectrum we can perceive, rather than vanishing into another dimension.
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When dealing with an absolute unknown there is no such thing as "likely", only presumptions and preferences.
 
Martina said:
Okay, it's my preference to opt for the simpler explanation. I like Ocam's Razor.
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Ah yes but the "preamble" to occam's razor is "All things being equal..." meaning that it begins from a position that things can be understood in the first place. That may not be the case where UFOs are concerned.
 
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