UFOs and the spiritual angle

[stphrz]

Occam's razor has nothing to do with "likelyhood."

The quality of a hypothesis is not determined by how likely it is to be correct. The most important qualities of a hypothesis are:

1. Is is falsifiable?

2. Is it testable and repeatable? In other words can an experiment be devised and data collected repeatedly and indepentently?

With this in mind the "Control System Hypothesis" is by far the most scientific hypothesis of the ufo phenomenon yet proposed. If you suspect you are in a control system there is always a way to test to see if your suspicions are correct.

Note, it may not be the correct one, but as soon as a test can be devised it can be checked out.

 

[Martina]

Ah yes but the "preamble" to occam's razor is "All things being equal..." meaning that it begins from a position that things can be understood in the first place. That may not be the case where UFOs are concerned.

Please forgive me if I don't care to chase round and round that particular bush with you. I just have not the inclination to engage in such fruitless pursuits or exercises in futility. As I have already said, the best we can do is try to explain what we have seen to ourselves as best we can. At the end of the day that's what we are left with.

---------- Post added at 06:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:32 PM ----------

With this in mind the "Control System Hypothesis" is by far the most scientific hypothesis of the ufo phenomenon yet proposed. If you suspect you are in a control system there is always a way to test to see if your suspicions are correct.

Note, it may not be the correct one, but as soon as a test can be devised it can be checked out.

I strongly suspect you have been co-opted into a control system without quite having realized it.

 

[stphrz]

Please forgive me if I don't care to chase round and round that particular bush with you. I just have not the inclination to engage in such fruitless pursuits or exercises in futility. As I have already said, the best we can do is try to explain what we have seen to ourselves as best we can. At the end of the day that's what we are left with.

Maybe it isn't the best we can do. Perhaps we can poke and prod the phenomenon and observe its reactions. Maybe we already are.

Imagine if you will the CIA, Military, some other branch of government has a suspiscion that the UFO phenomenon is indeed a "Control System." Suppose they also suspect that this "Control System" is shaping our beliefs toward the concept of benevolent space aliens here to explore/help our planet.

How could you test that hypothesis? Perhaps one way would be by way of disinformation and elaborate hoaxes to induce the opposite meme. One where the aliens are evil and here to eat us or something. You could then watch closely to see if the true phenomenon manifests itself over time in such a way to counter that disinformation campaign.

I strongly suspect you have been co-opted into a control system without quite having realized it.

Explain.

 

[dyingsun]

Please, do school us some more, we clearly don't have a clue.
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I somewhat think this Lady might be related to Mr. Korff ?
If not, I'm sorry.

 

[Martina]

Please, do school us some more, we clearly don't have a clue.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
I somewhat think this Lady might be related to Mr. Korff ?
If not, I'm sorry.

And who is Mr. Korff?

---------- Post added at 02:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:40 AM ----------

Maybe it isn't the best we can do. Perhaps we can poke and prod the phenomenon and observe its reactions. Maybe we already are.

Imagine if you will the CIA, Military, some other branch of government has a suspiscion that the UFO phenomenon is indeed a "Control System." Suppose they also suspect that this "Control System" is shaping our beliefs toward the concept of benevolent space aliens here to explore/help our planet.

How could you test that hypothesis? Perhaps one way would be by way of disinformation and elaborate hoaxes to induce the opposite meme. One where the aliens are evil and here to eat us or something. You could then watch closely to see if the true phenomenon manifests itself over time in such a way to counter that disinformation campaign.


Explain.

I don't think so. Ya know, I'm growing weary of all this. You seem to want to overanalyze the living snot out of it all, and I'm just not interested in that. After a certain point it just becomes a pointless argument and I think we have passed that point.

 

[stphrz]

And who is Mr. Korff?

I dunno your soulmate?

I don't think so. Ya know, I'm growing weary of all this. You seem to want to overanalyze the living snot out of it all, and I'm just not interested in that. After a certain point it just becomes a pointless argument and I think we have passed that point.

Allright. Enough. Anyone who knows me and how I can get sometimes knows what's next.

(Anyone who is squeamish might want to look away.)

1. When people grow weary they usually go home. I wish you would. You could probably use some sleep. You are very cranky.

2. Overanalyzing the snot out of things is what we do in this forum. Deal with it. I bet Christopher O'Brien's trickster hypothesis would drive you stark raving bonkers.

3. Not interested? See #1. A lot of folks on this forum are interested. This is where they come to post what's on their minds regarding paranormal subjects. If a particular post doesn't get your neurons firing, well look around you will likely find one. if not too bad. It's not about you.

4. If you think any opinon or thought that doesn't match up to yours is a pointless argument well, all I can say is welcome to The Paracast forums home of the pointless arguments and bane of Martina's existence. We do all this to annoy you. Yep.

5. If you think we are past all this, think again. Or try thinking in the first place.

6. Welcome to My ignore list.

7. Thank you!

 

[Martina]

Welcome to mine as well.

 

[CapnG]

Community spirit!

Feel the love!

 

[Trajanus]

What I don’t so much like is when ufology takes this ridculous left turn off in to spirituality, mysticism, psychic phenomena, channeling and so forth...

I couldn't agree more about "spirituality" in principle. For the most part practiitioners are swindlers out to fleece the gullible. It's just possible, though, that some of the stories are genuine in the sense that the phenomenon is actually in contact with some of these people, possibly to help hide itself by turning us off via the bs disseminated through them. I know it sounds crazy but given the sophistication and capabilities of the visitors, who knows? After all, the phenomenon doesn't appear to want to be openly known, and this is one way to get people to dismiss it altogether.

I believe they are extraterrestrials.

Same here. I wonder if Lance read that before thanking you, lol.

 

[Martina]

It's just possible, though, that some of the stories are genuine in the sense that the phenomenon is actually in contact with some of these people, possibly to help hide itself by turning us off via the bs disseminated through them. I know it sounds crazy but given the sophistication and capabilities of the visitors, who knows?

Well yeah, and that's just how the channelers hitch-hike on ufology. UFO's are a big mystery no one has been able to solve, so lots of things can be read into it that they don't have to prove making it easy to plug their agenda into it. Environmentalists can claim that they are channeling messages from the grays telling us we are destroying our planet with CO2, religionists can claim all sorts of validation through alleged contact with spiritually superior aliens, and the list goes on. I'm sure the global governance angle can be readily plugged into it as well.

 

[Trajanus]

...Environmentalists can claim that they are channeling messages from the grays telling us we are destroying our planet with CO2,

It seems they, at least, don't need to. Back in '94 African kids claimed aliens told them to take care of the environment. I don't think the kids were environmentalists prior to reporting that. There have been a number of alleged actual encounters involving such messages, not just "channeling."

religionists can claim all sorts of validation through alleged contact with spiritually superior aliens, and the list goes on. I'm sure the global governance angle can be readily plugged into it as well.

Sure but on the other hand, unlike people with a serious message or agenda, it seems many people want to shoot themselves in the foot with nonsense. Given the sheer quanity of dubious stuff pertaining to UFOs, one can't help but wonder if there is a vast concerted effort to undermine the whole field via tainting, and guilt by association.

 

[trainedobserver]

Given the sheer quanity of dubious stuff pertaining to UFOs, one can't help but wonder if there is a vast concerted effort to undermine the whole field via tainting, and guilt by association.

Well, I think there is plenty to suggest that the AFOSI for one actively does that. It's documented and pretty much undeniable.

However, here is the biggest punch in the gut, the UFO "field" itself is a giant Rorschach pattern producing diverse interpretations from a tremendous amount of ambiguity. In the end everyone is left scratching their heads expect the "true believers" who have latched on to some hypothesis or more likely "speculation" of some sort and decided it is the truth about the matter.

 

[Martina]

It seems they, at least, don't need to. Back in '94 African kids claimed aliens told them to take care of the environment. I don't think the kids were environmentalists prior to reporting that. There have been a number of alleged actual encounters involving such messages, not just "channeling."

Indeed! Could you point me to some of those? I'd be interested to have a look at them.

Sure but on the other hand, unlike people with a serious message or agenda, it seems many people want to shoot themselves in the foot with nonsense. Given the sheer quanity of dubious stuff pertaining to UFOs, one can't help but wonder if there is a vast concerted effort to undermine the whole field via tainting, and guilt by association.

That's certainly possible and I wouldn't rule it out.

 

[Trajanus]

Well, I think there is plenty to suggest that the AFOSI for one actively does that....

Could be just the tip of the iceberg.

However, here is the biggest punch in the gut, the UFO "field" itself is a giant Rorschach pattern producing diverse interpretations from a tremendous amount of ambiguity. In the end everyone is left scratching their heads expect the "true believers" who have latched on to some hypothesis or more likely "speculation" of some sort and decided it is the truth about the matter.

Well as someone else said just because all views are theoretically possible doesn't mean they're all equally likely.

 

[Martina]

Just for giggles I googled AFOSI, and came up with something I'd heard about a long time back, but never paid much attention to, that being the Gate 3 incident, in which an alien being kept at Area 51 S2 was shot, and I'm reading that AFOSI verified the story as being true.

What????? I think I need to do some digging on this one.

 

[trainedobserver]

Well as someone else said just because all views are theoretically possible doesn't mean they're all equally likely.

That's very true. While all things are possible not all things are probable. I was just pointing out the fact that the nature of the UFO phenomena lends itself to ambiguity and therefore a great deal of exploitation.

 

[tyder001]

When it's all said and done you will have "secret" military technology. Well, actually it will never be "all said and done." People will always see lights in the sky and claim life from elsewhere is "visiting" us. Intersting and fun for late night talk but no real proof.

 

[trainedobserver]

When it's all said and done you will have "secret" military technology.

In the end everyone is left scratching their heads expect the "true believers" who have latched on to some hypothesis or more likely "speculation" of some sort and decided it is the truth about the matter.

Ah-hem. Cough. (whistles softly and walks down the hall)

I too have been a strong proponent of the "secret military technology" hypothesis on and off for many years. I tend to waffle between that and the E.T. hypothesis. Presently, I tend to think its a combination of the two although I am trying not think I know enough to draw stern conclusions anymore.

One thing on the side of the "secret military tech" theory is the fact that we do have concrete proof that such a thing has and does now exist where we lack that kind of undeniable hard evidence about E.T.s, inter-dimensional beings, or other such boogie-men.

 

[tyder001]

I'll take Secret Military technonoly for 500 Alex.