What Is The Best Hypothesis

[Ezechiel]

I would have to respectfully disagree. Concepts like UFOs coming from other dimensions isn't possible. Other universes might be possible, but we don't know if there are any other universes. However we do know that space travel is possible in this universe, and that thousands of other planets have been discovered in it. Therefore it is more reasonable to propose that they come from someplace we at least know exists or can exist, than to suggest someplace based on pure speculation or that is impossible, or is just pure nonsense. So although I like to give people credit for their ideas, I also believe that it should be given when it is due, and not just because somebody barfed it out while kneeling in front of the toilet hallucinating on whatever, or praying to whatever, or channeling whatever ... you get the picture. Some theories really are better than others.

So your question should really be: What is the best hypothesis based on our current model of the universe.

Our current model only supports the sub-light speed travel.... so no fancy barfing allowed LOL.
End of story

 

[Randall]

So your question should really be: What is the best hypothesis based on our current model of the universe.
Our current model only supports the sub-light speed travel.... so no fancy barfing allowed LOL.
End of story

So what about Transports From Hell piloted by demons? Aliens in contact with channelers, or the Raëlians, or Adamski, or Meier? Or from where someone high on hallucinogenics says they're from? Or aliens from the center of the Sun? Or civilizations in the center of the Earth that you can get to by flying through a huge hole in the north pole? Or ... one of my favorites: Xenu, dictator of the Galactic Confederacy? How many more do I need to barf out ... LOL? It's not that I don't appreciate your sentiment, but there really are better theories, even if we stay inside this universe. All one needs to do is apply some critical thinking and knowledge, and best of all, you can do it too .

 

[Ezechiel]

So what about Transports From Hell piloted by demons? Aliens in contact with channelers, or the Raëlians, or Adamski, or Meier? Or from where someone high on hallucinogenics says they're from? Or aliens from the center of the Sun? Or civilizations in the center of the Earth that you can get to by flying through a huge hole in the north pole? Or ... one of my favorites: Xenu, dictator of the Galactic Confederacy? How many more do I need to barf out ... LOL? It's not that I don't appreciate your sentiment, but there really are better theories, even if we stay inside this universe. All one needs to do is apply some critical thinking and knowledge, and best of all, you can do it too .

If only hypothesis based on the current tested model of the universe are to be considered... then these religion-based options could never make sense lol.

 

[Badseed]

The problem with the projection theory is that prior to and during the Early Modern Era we didn't have any technology capable of creating 3D projections, at least not one that didn't require special glasses ...

LOL, and the problem with mind manipulation is that when we have radar/visual cases that involve Air Force jets and ground radar, like in the 1952 Washington DC case, there are just too many people in important places to manipulate at the same time along with their equipment.

It may not be humans doing it (And the "Projection" may be more complicated then our current idea of a projection)
The mental manipulation is done on an individual basis. Abductees think they where on a ship and went to the crab nebula but they didn't.

Can you explain why you think these ET only arrived in 1941?
I find that amazing, considering historical accounts.

If they have been around for thousands of years posing as angels, demons, gods, people from the Moon on dirigibles, men from Mars ect... that creates 2 problems for ETH.
1. They lie and manipulate for some reason.
2. What kind of technological advanced intergalactic civilization needs thousands of years to learn about humans, DNA ect...

Forgive my bluntness, but your defense of ETH seems to boil down to this:
Any UFO incident or account that conflicts with ETH is unreliable. Therfore ETH is the best explanation.

I say UFO crashes and stories of ET's fixing broken spacecraft are detrimental to ETH - You say no problem, they never happened; unreliable.
I say UFO's have been around for a long time and lie to people - No problem; the flying saucer reports and visitors from the ski stories of ancient times are not ET's, those are just confused ancient people or ancient social memes.

What UFO accounts do you find convincing, and are you sure they are not just swamp gas?

 

[Burnt State]

So far, from the descriptions in this thread that resonate for me, the UFO lies, manipulates, is theatrical, is shy (wants to be seen but only briefly and usually in isolated environments), and I would also add that it could be engaged in long term surveillance & information collection. Such practices may be unified under a control system guided by an ongoing software program responding to our own shifts in technological advancement with psych tests that are both literal and absurdist in nature. These descriptions support both the ETH and closed system theories as an irregular and self-sustaining monitoring system of probes sent long ago & responsible for the entire history of Ufology.

 

[Badseed]

So far, from the descriptions in this thread that resonate for me, the UFO lies, manipulates, is theatrical, is shy (wants to be seen but only briefly and usually in isolated environments), and I would also add that it could be engaged in long term surveillance & information collection. Such practices may be unified under a control system guided by an ongoing software program responding to our own shifts in technological advancement with psych tests that are both literal and absurdist in nature. These descriptions support both the ETH and closed system theories as an irregular and self-sustaining monitoring system of probes sent long ago & responsible for the entire history of Ufology.

There is ever increasing evidence for the Simulation Hypothesis of our universe - It may or may not be correct, but a control system in such a universe might look like the UFO phenomenon.

I don't claim to know what UFO's are. I just don't think the phenomenon acts like ET's when you look at it over long periods of time. The behaviors just don't fit that of a universe crossing civilization on a planet saving, scientific exploration or whatever kind of mission; yet they go through a lot of trouble to appear as such. In the past they played other roles.

 

[Burnt State]

There is ever increasing evidence for the Simulation Hypothesis of our universe - It may or may not be correct, but a control system in such a universe might look like the UFO phenomenon.

I don't claim to know what UFO's are. I just don't think the phenomenon acts like ET's when you look at it over long periods of time. The behaviors just don't fit that of a universe crossing civilization on a planet saving, scientific exploration or whatever kind of mission; yet they go through a lot of trouble to appear as such. In the past they played other roles.

If they were probes sent here long ago for information gathering purposes then ET doesn't need to cross the universe, just let the software program run indefinitely and send back info as it sees fits, especially following experiments that are stimulated by technological leaps like nuclear weapons. This doesn't require simulation of the universe but probes could certainly simulate all manner of ship, humanoid, floating robot or what have you. In many ways we are the mouse in the ufo phenomenon maze.

 

[Jeff Crowell]

I balk at claiming "extra dimensional." To me that's not realistic since a 'dimension' is a physical trait. A more accurate representation of what people imply in this regard is "multi-universal", as in bouncing from one universe into ours, aka brane theory 'taps' and such. I think it's a valid theory of sourcing.

 

[Ezechiel]

One funny take on the stealthy behavior of the phenomenon

From an ET point of view, a post industrial/nuclear bomb, pre-nuclear fusion energy age civilization is an unstable one as it can vaporize its own home planet without hope of continuity. The inability to migrate to other viable locations makes it especially vulnerable.

You can bet its an interesting one from the illicit gamblers point of view where watching and betting on fringe cases like planet earth is fair game. The 'will they won't they do it' question is crucial for bookies of the galactic gaming corporation. Observation, monitoring communications and sampling specimens from planet earth to get a better picture is vital to set the running odds. From time to time, cheaters try to meddle with nuclear weapon sites for a quick cash-in on their 100 earth-year billion credit bet against planet earth. Fortunately the galactic sector law and order unit has always jumped in just time to normalize the situation

Once your solar system or galaxy becomes 'just a playground' to your civilization, watching and betting on 'jackass' fails is the ultimate entertainment LOL

Maybe one day we'll be able to watch 'jackass' fails on the James Webb channel

 

[Badseed]

If they were probes sent here long ago for information gathering purposes then ET doesn't need to cross the universe, just let the software program run indefinitely and send back info as it sees fits, especially following experiments that are stimulated by technological leaps like nuclear weapons. This doesn't require simulation of the universe but probes could certainly simulate all manner of ship, humanoid, floating robot or what have you. In many ways we are the mouse in the ufo phenomenon maze.

Interesting.
Probes that act as a control system for what purpose? Normally we send probes to gather information, not control a situation; but I'm sure we might if we had some vested interest and the technology. The question is, why do they want to control us?

Also, how would these probes accomplish the feats that appear to defy the laws of physics as we know them (please don't ruin the conversation by reverting to the old "any UFO account that conflicts with my hypothesis is unreliable" line). There are plenty of reliable UFO accounts where the abductee claims to be abducted by a UFO outside his house but hundreds or thousands of neighbors who should have seen them, see nothing. Are these mental manipulations of some kind?

 

[Badseed]

One funny take on the stealthy behavior of the phenomenon

From an ET point of view, a post industrial/nuclear bomb, pre-nuclear fusion energy age civilization is an unstable one as it can vaporize its own home planet without hope of continuity. The inability to migrate to other viable locations makes it especially vulnerable.

You can bet its an interesting one from the illicit gamblers point of view where watching and betting on fringe cases like planet earth is fair game. The 'will they won't they do it' question is crucial for bookies of the galactic gaming corporation. Observation, monitoring communications and sampling specimens from planet earth to get a better picture is vital to set the running odds. From time to time, cheaters try to meddle with nuclear weapon sites for a quick cash-in on their 100 earth-year billion credit bet against planet earth. Fortunately the galactic sector law and order unit has always jumped in just time to normalize the situation

Once your solar system or galaxy becomes just a playground to your civilization, watching and betting on 'jackass' fails is the ultimate entertainment LOL

Maybe one day we'll be able to watch 'jackass' fails on the James Webb channel

Best hypothesis ever!
That's the first time I ever heard the extraterrestrial gambler theory.

 

[Burnt State]

That's the first time I ever heard the extraterrestrial gambler theory.

You mean you've been saving your quatloos all this time. For what?

 

[Burnt State]

Interesting.
Probes that act as a control system for what purpose? Normally we send probes to gather information, not control a situation; but I'm sure we might if we had some vested interest and the technology. The question is, why do they want to control us?

Also, how would these probes accomplish the feats that appear to defy the laws of physics as we know them (please don't ruin the conversation by reverting to the old "any UFO account that conflicts with my hypothesis is unreliable" line). There are plenty of reliable UFO accounts where the abductee claims to be abducted by a UFO outside his house but hundreds or thousands of neighbors who should have seen them, see nothing. Are these mental manipulations of some kind?

Information gathering could take on many possibilities as explored by Wargo here: Anti-Anti-ETH: Big Data, Deep Anthropology, and Von Neumann Probes @ The Nightshirt
Vallée's control system is one where the phenomenon acts as a barometer to global events of human proportion, and so it is responsive to us, experimenting with us, sending back information along the way to the EGT bookies, or the disembodied overlord brains, perhaps to civilizations long dead or to one still alive collecting information from across the galaxy and probably having its signal intercepted by civilizations older than itself. None may talk with each other, all these different species in space, with their different languages and different realities. How lonely it must all be.

As for what these probes may be capable of I would simply say one should never underestimate ET's hardware capacities or how they may use available materials in our atmosphere to either literally construct, or to contruct the appearance of, whatever they want to show us, or have us experience. Consider our own capacity to 3D print structures in midair and then ramp that up a zillion times or even a 1000 times over and you've got a self-assembling technology operating beyond nano scales. As for projection technology, how about the projection of physical objects, energy is matter after all, so there's a lot that's possible that we can't explain that affects our radar and our perceptual capacities.

And with regards to Alien Abduction Syndrome, as previously stated, what's literally happening vs. where it's happening is still quite debatable. Given that neighbors and sleeping partners, and no one else ever for that matter has witnessed an actual abduction of someone else in progress, it is most likely happening in the brain. ET may not even apply in such cases.

 

[Ezechiel]

You mean you've been saving your quatloos all this time. For what?

We could call this episode: 'The gamesters of Zeta Reticuli' [emoji23]

 

[Goggs Mackay]

When are people interested in such questions going to stop wringing their handkerchiefs in their fists and glancing sideways and sweating on the question and finally admit to themselves the obvious reality that there are technologically-advanced non-human intelligences manifesting as UFOs?

Yeah, yeah, black ops technology and breakaway civilizations and all that funky human jazz, granted --BORING!

Lets focus on the real potatoes...

My 'gun to the head' test goes like this:

1. You are Robert DeNiro or Christopher Walken (whichever you prefer) and you're being forced to play Russian Roulette by some Alien Greys.

2. Physically press a pretend finger-gun to your temple.

3. Your survival (i.e. you pull the trigger and DON'T blow you brains out) depends on answering the following question correctly:

4. The question is: "Based on the evidence you have familiarised yourself with over the course of your lifetime, are technologically-advanced non-human intelligences manifesting to mankind as a part of the UFO phenomena?"

5. There are no ifs or buts or qualifications here; an immediate, PURELY SUBJECTIVE RESPONSE is required from you now based on your own intuitive sense of the truth of the situation according to the data you have personally analysed to date.


6. Answer 'Yes' or 'No' and then pull the trigger on the finger-gun pressed to your temple.

7. A subtle or overt sense of either surviving or of having blown your own willfully ignorant brains out should ensue.

'YES' is my chosen answer as I pointlessly wonder if my brain will have a chance to feel anything at all as the gun fires (if I chose wrong, that is), and the gas explosively expands pushing the round along the barrel toward my right temple and then truthfully annihilates my spongey brain - a billion neurons mimic the Big Bang in miniature...)

 

[Goggs Mackay]

You mean you've been saving your quatloos all this time. For what?

I've been taping all the original series ST recently and I watched the one the still shot above is from. I'm really enjoying them and they have been digitally remastered to an amazing extent that all exterior shots of the Enterprise and all planets really look about as good as in later incarnations of ST. If anyone hasn't watched any of the remastered original series, I seriously suggest you look them up because the difference is amazing and really worth catching.

 

[Ezechiel]

I've been taping all the original series ST recently and I watched the one the still shot above is from. I'm really enjoying them and they have been digitally remastered to an amazing extent that all exterior shots of the Enterprise and all planets really look about as good as in later incarnations of ST. If anyone hasn't watched any of the remastered original series, I seriously suggest you look them up because the difference is amazing and really worth catching.

The cardboard vegetation panels are gone ?

 

[Mr. Fibuli]

I've been taping all the original series ST recently and I watched the one the still shot above is from. I'm really enjoying them and they have been digitally remastered to an amazing extent that all exterior shots of the Enterprise and all planets really look about as good as in later incarnations of ST. If anyone hasn't watched any of the remastered original series, I seriously suggest you look them up because the difference is amazing and really worth catching.

Maybe I'm just a cranky old lady, but it bothers me when the effects are redone on shows specifically Star Trek TOS and Red Dwarf. Firstly- in my estimation, it's like giving the Mona Lisa a new hairdo and botox. Or giving the Victoire de Samothrace a new head. Secondly, these effects were done by talented people, and I think that it's symptomatic of the disposable culture that we feel like the original content is obsolete
Just to emphasize my point, I'll use classic Dr. Who as an example. Does anyone think they would benefit from making the laughable effects and props into shiny new alternatives? ..or would it take away from the experience?

 

[Burnt State]

Maybe I'm just a cranky old lady, but it bothers me when the effects are redone on shows specifically Star Trek TOS and Red Dwarf. Firstly- in my estimation, it's like giving the Mona Lisa a new hairdo and botox. Or giving the Victoire de Samothrace a new head. Secondly, these effects were done by talented people, and I think that it's symptomatic of the disposable culture that we feel like the original content is obsolete
Just to emphasize my point, I'll use classic Dr. Who as an example. Does anyone think they would benefit from making the laughable effects and props into shiny new alternatives? ..or would it take away from the experience?

Not to stray too far afield from the best hypothesis but while I could never stomach early Dr. Who getting a revamp for all the reasons you mention I'm still quite taken by the new space effects in Star Trek as those images are a better match for what was often a uniquely advanced social perspective and strong story writing. Given the pathos of their budget it's incredible what they were able to accomplish in terms of set and fashion but the space shots were often fairly limited and the new material is quite strong. Not to say Dr. Who didn't have great writing as it did but their budgetary constraints did work well with the cheesey sets and effects of their respective eras and ramped up capacity as the years went by. Comparatively speaking Star Trek was a moment in time.

Back to the best hypothesis. What's interesting about both these tv shows is how the human race is centered as being special in the galaxy, if not the universe. The way the UFO phenomenon responds to us in terms of its dazzling light displays and other grand theatrical gestures one wonders if it might in fact be true. Perhaps life in the universe is actually rare, or at least a species surviving through their hunt for energy and acquisition of materialist needs & luxuries might be incredibly rare.

Planned obsolescence may not just be a function of consumerism & shareholder profits but also a part of the evolution of intelligent species. We have eliminated ourselves before on this planet in different regions & eras multiple times over. Surviving through these "civilized" trajectories could be an entirely rare event and consequently we receive a lot of attention by way of species stopping by for their obligatory space tourist's soil sample. Instead of chipping off a chunk of the Berlin Wall as a visitor's memento it's, "I got a chunk of earth before its inhabitants blew the place to pieces."

 

[Burnt State]

Anyways, back to more Deerhunter styled investigation into what the UFO is: