What Is The Best Hypothesis

[Burnt State]

Regardless of origin some things have been made clear; mostly that from our perspective they are malevolent - they lie, steal people, mutilate and manipulate.

However, these are the stories told by human beings and experiencers. The malevolence is in the eye of the beholder only. We have no proof of the evil sadistic abductor from space, not even any physiological proof, at least none that couldn't have come from earth (i.e. Khoury and the rare hair). No mutilations and possibly only mental manipulations that could be almost entirely of our own machinations. Humans claim theft, claim abduction, but nothing really to show for it except strange stories and the frequent mental aberrations that follow the telling of the tale. Comparisons to other surreal tales such as Satanic Ritual Abuse parallel alien abduction and we must wonder if whether or not the source of such evil deeds is also human in nature, perhaps a human memory that can not be confronted?

 

[Badseed]

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Now we can repeat and refine, but IMO it is already clear how that will go. There are all kinds of examples one can dig up where movement that is rapid accompanied by a momentary distraction can make things seem to vanish or appear. Magicians have been doing it for centuries. Couple that with examples of camouflage, many proven in nature, plus the development of standard and active camouflage, and those theories are as proven possible as you can get, unlike alternate universes, and especially alternate dimensions. But even if we accept that such exists, there's still the added problem of "extra accounting for" required. So I'm sorry to say, but without something better, this aspect of UFO behavior barely lends any weight to the idea that an alternative universe exists, let alone that aliens are coming here from there.

Now all that being said. I believe I've already mentioned someplace that an alternate universe ( not dimension ), is my favorite theory, even if I don't think it's the most likely.

I don't know what it is. However, I find it unlikely that all the thousands of vanishing / appearing UFO's can be explained by fast movement and camouflage. It's more likely that some of the UFOs are doing exactly what they appears to be doing - vanishing or appearing from some place.
Why?
1. Movement that fast would be just as much a violation of the laws of physics as vanishing and appearing is (at least based on what we know about physics at this point). In facts, alternate universes are at least hypothetically possible according to our understanding. Moving faster then light is impossible as far as we know, and inertia would scramble anyone inside the craft if it accelerates fast enough to "vanish".
2. The spacecraft are so advanced that they have near perfect camouflage, that can make them invisible to radar and visible light, but they seem to crash and breakdown a lot? maybe they need to prioritize maintenance.
3. If their camouflage is that good - why not have it on all the time? we should never see UFO's. Why attract attention, if you don't need to.
4. If they are really advanced, why would they care if the human pond scum see them anyway? why not just do what they want, stop hiding - who's going to stop them?

 

[Badseed]

However, these are the stories told by human beings and experiencers. The malevolence is in the eye of the beholder only. We have no proof of the evil sadistic abductor from space, not even any physiological proof, at least none that couldn't have come from earth (i.e. Khoury and the rare hair). No mutilations and possibly only mental manipulations that could be almost entirely of our own machinations. Humans claim theft, claim abduction, but nothing really to show for it except strange stories and the frequent mental aberrations that follow the telling of the tale. Comparisons to other surreal tales such as Satanic Ritual Abuse parallel alien abduction and we must wonder if whether or not the source of such evil deeds is also human in nature, perhaps a human memory that can not be confronted?

If all the many thousands of hideous and similar abduction stories are fabricated by the abductees we have to find an explanation far more unbelievable then ET's or UT's.

In other words if UFO's are not doing it, I dare you to explain what is going on? and no, there where never more then a few dozen claims of Satanic Ritual Abuse. Had there been tens of thousands with the same story, perhaps the causes might be the same.

 

[Burnt State]

If all the many thousands of hideous and similar abduction stories are fabricated by the abductees we have to find an explanation far more unbelievable then ET's or UT's.

In other words if UFO's are not doing it, I dare you to explain what is going on? and no, there where never more then a few dozen claims of Satanic Ritual Abuse. Had there been tens of thousands with the same story, perhaps the causes might be the same.

I believe the Satanic Panic definitely ramped up a significantly more substantial number than a dozen and as a fad it lasted a good decade if not more and even went global in reach. Unlike the one single criminal investigation of alien abduction many a court case ruined many a life over the Satanic Panic and there were no convictions. It has since morphed into pedophile rings operating in towns with the leading power brokers being accused. What lies at the centre of such stories is often coercion and parental fears, but where there's smoke there can be fire. So certainly there's something odd going on in the populace which may very well be quite mimetic in nature, or may point to true evil as documented in towns with high rates of child sexual absuse. Elsewhere on the forum I posted the list of similarities between Satanic Ritual Abuse and Alien Abduction. The similarities are actually quite startling.

As for just how many people have claimed alien abduction and many of these are worth examining is a problem. We could place them on a spectrum of people claiming highly unique, unusual experiences during daytime with actual encounters with humanoids and complete narratives of going in and out of ships vs. people who simply had bad dreams on the other end of the scale. We have to be careful with just how many people we can classify as "abductees." Inbetween we have hoaxed events, schizophrenia, sexual assault, PTSD, hallucinations, pesonal breakdowns, wannabe UFO obsessives, hypnotic suggestion and unknown experiences. I'm most interested in those very unusual coherent stories that may in fact have other circumstantial evidence to support their story. I don't see consistency in the stories.

Not counting the space brother Contactee era, consistency in A.P. was first named by Jacobs, Hopkins and Mack as they created the frame for the story pattern as we know it, and so do all those who then make the claim. Of the interesting stories few are known and those that are often break the mold as spelled out by the big three investigators i.e. Walton and Emilcin. Their stories are fascinating as are ones legitimized by responsible investigates like Rutkowski who can separate the schizophrenic breakdown from sane people getting seriously perplexed by one off encounters with humanoids. Parents who claim that not only are they being abducted but so are there kids worry me greatly, as the narratives implanted by parent into the child is the most dangerous cycle at work in the human populace. It always has been.

Also in the middle of the abduction claims are the Contactees and the researcher/journalist promoter of the abductee. These also are a powerful force in society. Without a Whitley Streiber at work in the populace or encouragers like Linda Moulton Howe we would certainly have far less claims of A.P. so again, for me, the actual numbers diminish.

If there is one common thread that appears it is how a series of deconstructive events may often precede someone's abduction claim, and is often followed by further life dilemmas. There's something happening there that is very centered on the experiencer. Of much greater interest is the story of A.P. that comes from perfectly rational folk, with not a whit of trauma in their life and they are suddenly plagued with an inexplicable humanoid encounter. Those cases are a very unique cohort and you have to go through a lot of hay to find such rare needles.

 

[Randall]

I don't know what it is. However, I find it unlikely that all the thousands of vanishing / appearing UFO's can be explained by fast movement and camouflage. It's more likely that some of the UFOs are doing exactly what they appears to be doing - vanishing or appearing from some place.

Actually, just active camouflage could explain all of the instances, and that's a technology that we ourselves are working on. So why would that be less likely than invoking unknown alternate universes?

Why?

1. Movement that fast would be just as much a violation of the laws of physics as vanishing and appearing is (at least based on what we know about physics at this point). In facts, alternate universes are at least hypothetically possible according to our understanding. Moving faster then light is impossible as far as we know, and inertia would scramble anyone inside the craft if it accelerates fast enough to "vanish".

Even if we don't include any momentary distractions, like normal blinking of eyes, or glancing away, there are plenty of things that move so quickly that the eye cannot follow them, e.g. a cannon shell, or even natural things like the flapping of some insect's wings. Plus UFOs have been observed departing on a trajectory not directly away from an observer in what seems like instantaneous acceleration. I've seen it myself. If the one I saw had zoomed of directly away from me instead of at a near right angle and at some distance, it would certainly have seemed to have simply vanished in the snap of your fingers. I don't know how they overcome inertia. Maybe those craft are unmanned probes. The one I saw seemed more like a probe than a vessel for passengers.

I do agree however that an alternate universe might exist someplace, and I personally like the idea from a storyline point of view. If I were basing my view on what I wanted them to be ( like if I were trying to sell a book on the idea ), rather than what makes the most sense, then I'd be going with the Alternate Universe Hypothesis. But since we don't need to invoke the extra complexities involved in travelling between unknown universes, and we know interstellar travel is possible, without further evidence, like for example that an alternate universe actually exists, the ETH is still the most rational choice.

2. The spacecraft are so advanced that they have near perfect camouflage, that can make them invisible to radar and visible light, but they seem to crash and breakdown a lot? maybe they need to prioritize maintenance.

I think I already addressed the issue of crashes, but your point is still realistic. With technology, things do go wrong, and the more complex a system the more things there are to go wrong.

3. If their camouflage is that good - why not have it on all the time? we should never see UFO's. Why attract attention, if you don't need to.

I don't know, but it's not relevant either. Based on what we know, active camouflage technology is a far simpler explanation than invoking alternate universes. So why dream that one up when it's not necessary?

4. If they are really advanced, why would they care if the human pond scum see them anyway? why not just do what they want, stop hiding - who's going to stop them?

We're not talking about Star Trek "Q" type aliens here. They still use ships to travel in. The kind of aliens you're talking about would have to be far more advanced than the ones reported in order to make your comparison valid. In technological terms I don't think they're all that much farther ahead in time. We've got an unmanned probe out past Pluto ourselves now. Give us another 1000 years of steady progress and it's possible that interstellar craft could be commonplace. We could probably even build one now if we really wanted to. It would be a bit of a clunker, but it would probably work.

 

[Burnt State]

When the space ships morph into other shapes or coalesce into one then you may as well start invoking the Q continuum; because, that kind of mad science looks like magic to us mere mortals.

 

[Randall]

When the space ships morph into other shapes or coalesce into one then you may as well start invoking the Q continuum; because, that kind of mad science looks like magic to us mere mortals.

Again, camouflage technology could be made to project images of whatever one wants, not simply the background. It's a bird! It's a plane! No. It's active camouflage! No Q Continuum required.

 

[Burnt State]

That's not camouflage it's a wanton display, a theatrical show. Camouflage is when you can't see an object. These are large scale production displays that purposely draw attention to themselves so that they will be seen. There's nothing subtle about these visual theatrics and that's why people keep getting their minds blown by such scenes and feel compelled to either report them or keep their mouths shut because the light shows are just so strange.

 

[TheBitterOne]

ufology and I could go back and forth on this till eternity and you might help to support that camp in a more clean, cold calculating manner, but i will continue to reject the "aliens from space in their flying saucers" answer because imho it does not fit the bill at all. it just continues to masquerade as such. and that proposition is frankly much more troublesome and unnerving.

I understand where you're coming from completely, but do note that I referred to: 'technologically-advanced non-human intelligences', not to 'nuts-and-bolts aliens'.

Basically, my theory/thesis/contention/whatever you want to call it, is that everyone intuitively knows the answer to this question within themselves and that it is entirely subjective and dependent on the amount and/or quality of data they have been exposed to.

E.g. Helen Punchclock, your bog-standard Ellen-worshipping suburban soccer mom has been exposed to very little meaningful data on the UFO phenomena and so easily pushes her finger to her head, rolls her eyes and says 'Duh, no' and the gun goes 'click'.

You and I and Jeff Rense might need to dig a little bit deeper into out reservoirs of intuition before summoning the courage to pull the metaphorical trigger, but I contend that the potential to get it right in exactly the same way is still there.

Not explaining myself well with this at all. I blame it on the fact that I'm typing on a laptop with a broken space bar Sorry.

 

[Burnt State]

I understand where you're coming from completely, but do note that I referred to: 'technologically-advanced non-human intelligences', not to 'nuts-and-bolts aliens'.

Basically, my theory/thesis/contention/whatever you want to call it, is that everyone intuitively knows the answer to this question within themselves and that it is entirely subjective and dependent on the amount and/or quality of data they have been exposed to.

E.g. Helen Punchclock, your bog-standard Ellen-worshipping suburban soccer mom has been exposed to very little meaningful data on the UFO phenomena and so easily pushes her finger to her head, rolls her eyes and says 'Duh, no' and the gun goes 'click'.

You and I and Jeff Rense might need to dig a little bit deeper into out reservoirs of intuition before summoning the courage to pull the metaphorical trigger, but I contend that the potential to get it right in exactly the same way is still there.

Not explaining myself well with this at all. I blame it on the fact that I'm typing on a laptop with a broken space bar Sorry.

no, you are clear and correct and I should have read that more clearly. i think sometimes I get too caught up in responding to ufology's penchant for the ETH. that's so single minded of me, but I did get to quote Ghost Dog so there's some benefit there.

i change my answer to yes, and will pull the trigger, as it is non-human and it is highly advanced. for my money they are also busy masquerading as aliens from outer space in their flying saucers. that bothers me to no end.

 

[Waller]

Again, camouflage technology could be made to project images of whatever one wants, not simply the background. It's a bird! It's a plane! No. It's active camouflage! No Q Continuum required.

If you see a real, honest-to-goodness FO that is "captained" by ET, you will know without a scrant of a doubt that what you have seen is not a trick.

 

[Badseed]

I believe the Satanic Panic definitely ramped up a significantly more substantial number than a dozen and as a fad it lasted a good decade if not more and even went global in reach. Unlike the one single criminal investigation of alien abduction many a court case ruined many a life over the Satanic Panic and there were no convictions. It has since morphed into pedophile rings operating in towns with the leading power brokers being accused. What lies at the centre of such stories is often coercion and parental fears, but where there's smoke there can be fire. So certainly there's something odd going on in the populace which may very well be quite mimetic in nature, or may point to true evil as documented in towns with high rates of child sexual absuse. Elsewhere on the forum I posted the list of similarities between Satanic Ritual Abuse and Alien Abduction. The similarities are actually quite startling.

As for just how many people have claimed alien abduction and many of these are worth examining is a problem. We could place them on a spectrum of people claiming highly unique, unusual experiences during daytime with actual encounters with humanoids and complete narratives of going in and out of ships vs. people who simply had bad dreams on the other end of the scale. We have to be careful with just how many people we can classify as "abductees." Inbetween we have hoaxed events, schizophrenia, sexual assault, PTSD, hallucinations, pesonal breakdowns, wannabe UFO obsessives, hypnotic suggestion and unknown experiences. I'm most interested in those very unusual coherent stories that may in fact have other circumstantial evidence to support their story. I don't see consistency in the stories.
.

Even international, I can't find more then 9 or 10 cases of Satanic Ritual Abuse where alleged perpetrators are named, and fewer where people where prosecuted. Further, the accounts given by victims in those cases vary widely.

Still, your point is well taken. People can report things that never happened. However, I find it unlikely that tens of thousands of people across the glob, from different cultures would imagine and then share the same story; even if a majority are bogus (and I don't believe that) - many have to be real from the abductees point of view. Not to say that they actually went on board a spacecraft, or visited the crab nebula, but that they had a real experience similar to other abductees that makes them believe they where on a spaceship.

 

[Burnt State]

From the point of view of the delusional or the traumatized many unique experiences may appear absolutely real. But just because thousands of people have vivid dreams of falling, or see faeries or leprechauns, demons or humanoids does it mean we can lend them any degree of credibility beyond a folk take. Many said the same thing about just how real the devil was for centuries. Belief precedes experience.

How do we go about beginning to prove that a substantial number of abduction cases have any veracity outside the experiencer? Telling the same tale is not enough. That so many of the tales that appear to have circumstantial evidence are so different from each other and so bizarre must give us pause. The popular Whitley story that defines the greys has also placed this story meme into pop culture in a powerful way, hence the brief superstar status of a Stan Romanek. His rise only confirms the role of belief in society.

I'm not dismissing all cases, but I do not think the core experience that should give us pause is actually that substantial by the numbers. The reasons for the similarity in tales smacks of construction and repetition. Give me Pascagoula, Cisco Grove or Dechmont Woods any day.

 

[Badseed]

But since we don't need to invoke the extra complexities involved in travelling between unknown universes, and we know interstellar travel is possible,

In that case. What's a more simple explanation:
1. That aliens traversed the universe to visit us, perform sadistic experiments that should be technological unnecessary, while at the same time having technology that appears to violate the laws of physics as we know them.
or
2. That someone is projecting an image into the sky.

Even if we don't include any momentary distractions, like normal blinking of eyes, or glancing away, there are plenty of things that move so quickly that the eye cannot follow them, e.g. a cannon shell, or even natural things like the flapping of some insect's wings.

That don't explain instantaneous vanishing from radar. And if you put, an electronic device inside a cannon ball it wont survive the acceleration much better then a passenger. Not to say that it can't be done some day - but I imagine when we can do it, we wont need to grow fetuses inside sentient beings that we kidnap (because we can already grow fetuses in a surrogate right now, without going across the universe to kidnap people).

 

[Burnt State]

List of satanic ritual abuse allegations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Even international, I can't find more then 9 or 10 cases of Satanic Ritual Abuse where alleged perpetrators are named, and fewer where people where prosecuted.

here's a brief outline of some cases but this only hits the highlights and is in no way a complete list. if you consider the magnitude of similar belief systems such as the Salem Witch trials or how many people who were tried and killed as witches over history or even the whole inquisition shenanigans...well you can see just how powerful human belief systems are. The records for such things are as well documented if not better than alien abduction stories.

 

[Badseed]

From the point of view of the delusional or the traumatized many unique experiences may appear absolutely real. But just because thousands of people have vivid dreams of falling, or see faeries or leprechauns, demons or humanoids does it mean we can lend them any degree of credibility beyond a folk take. Many said the same thing about just how real the devil was for centuries. Belief precedes experience.

How do we go about beginning to prove that a substantial number of abduction cases have any veracity outside the experiencer? Telling the same tale is not enough. That so many of the tales that appear to have circumstantial evidence are so different from each other and so bizarre must give us pause. The popular Whitley story that defines the greys has also placed this story meme into pop culture in a powerful way, hence the brief superstar status of a Stan Romanek. His rise only confirms the role of belief in society.

I'm not dismissing all cases, but I do not think the core experience that should give us pause is actually that substantial by the numbers. The reasons for the similarity in tales smacks of construction and repetition. Give me Pascagoula, Cisco Grove or Dechmont Woods any day.

I concur. The truth is in the strange stories; the ones that fall outside the carfully constructed norm created by ????? whoever is doing it.
These are the UFO stories that ETH guys like ufology would likely call "unreliable" because they conflict with ETH.

I'm not saying that the content of these abductees stories are factually true. I'm saying that
1. The phenomenon is real, something is happening to these people.
2. It appears to be coordinated and controlled (therefore has a purpose).
3. From the human perspective - it is evil by default, because it is doing bad things.
4. It wants people to believe it is ET at this point, in the past it had other cover stories.
5. It's being effective at manipulation beyond what a government or any human organization is technological capable of. That is to say, for the most part it has people thinking and doing exactly what it wants - a feat every government on earth would emulate if they could.

 

[Badseed]

I don't know, but it's not relevant either. Based on what we know, active camouflage technology is a far simpler explanation than invoking alternate universes. So why dream that one up when it's not necessary?

Almost forgot..... I don't think it has to be alternate universes. I just don't think it's space people - It don't even need to be that complicated. It could just be a projection of some kind, some mental manipulation with a few physical tidbits that originate from right here on earth.

and the question is very relevant - If you posit that these are ETs that have great active camouflage; why do we see UFO's at all?

 

[Ezechiel]

Best hypothesis is anything we can imagine or can't in an evolving framework that has existed for approximately 14 billion earth years. So there is really no best right now... At our stage of evolution, they all have equal potential until enough time has passed to prove or disprove the hypothesis.

In 1600, could someone have imagined the infrastructure that supports a Boeing airliner ?

IMHO, A UFO ... Flying saucer if you want, is obviously supported by an infrastructure that we haven't imagined yet, that operates on a local or galactic ot intergalactic scale depending on how much time the civilization has existed. You could even speculate about inter dimensional or multiversional if you wanted.

The Higgs field (God particle) is interesting, it gives mass to particles. If one day we're able to manipulate it and actually can render a craft massless relative to its surrounding, then there is no speed limit. E = C2 ? What are the hypothesis in a system like that ?

 

[Randall]

Almost forgot..... I don't think it has to be alternate universes. I just don't think it's space people - It don't even need to be that complicated. It could just be a projection of some kind, some mental manipulation with a few physical tidbits that originate from right here on earth.

The problem with the projection theory is that prior to and during the Early Modern Era we didn't have any technology capable of creating 3D projections, at least not one that didn't require special glasses ...

LOL, and the problem with mind manipulation is that when we have radar/visual cases that involve Air Force jets and ground radar, like in the 1952 Washington DC case, there are just too many people in important places to manipulate at the same time along with their equipment.

It is however possible that the craft are made on Earth, but to create the huge mother ships that have been reported, it would take a very large infrastructure to support the necessary resource extraction, refining, manufacturing, and assembly, and I simply haven't seen any convincing theory as to how all that could be kept secret when we have spy satellites that can read license plates and see underground. Cloaking a ship or a base is one thing, but a whole civilization, for decades, if not centuries? Somebody would have either discovered it or stumbled onto it by now.

and the question is very relevant - If you posit that these are ETs that have great active camouflage; why do we see UFO's at all?

Please allow me to clarify: The reason that the question of why active camouflage isn't always used is irrelevant, is in the context that compared to invoking other universes ( which is how this started ), active camouflage is far simpler, and therefore according to common sense heuristics e.g. Ockham's Razor, a more plausible explanation. Therefore the "why" doesn't matter, because the "how" part takes care of the point mentioned.

On the other hand, when the question is posed as a general observation, then it has relevance, and there could be all kinds of reasons. Maybe it's not standard operating procedure to have the cloak engaged at all times. Maybe not all craft are equipped with a cloak. Maybe they can only be used under certain circumstances due to technical limitations. Maybe the aliens want to be seen sometimes. Maybe it's a more modern adaptation to our efforts to try to observe or chase them. Basically, few things in life have simple black or white answers so proposing that we should either see them all the time or not at all isn't a reasonable way to look at the situation.

 

[Randall]

Best hypothesis is anything we can imagine or can't in an evolving framework that has existed for approximately 14 billion earth years. So there is really no best right now... At our stage of evolution, they all have equal potential until enough time has passed to prove or disprove the hypothesis.

In 1600, could someone have imagined the infrastructure that supports a Boeing airliner ?

IMHO, A UFO ... Flying saucer if you want, is obviously supported by an infrastructure that we haven't imagined yet, that operates on a local or galactic ot intergalactic scale depending on how much time the civilization has existed. You could even speculate about inter dimensional or multiversional if you wanted.

The Higgs field (God particle) is interesting, it gives mass to particles. If one day we're able to manipulate it and actually can render a craft massless relative to its surrounding, then there is no speed limit. E = C2 ? What are the hypothesis in a system like that ?

I would have to respectfully disagree. Concepts like UFOs coming from other dimensions isn't possible. Other universes might be possible, but we don't know if there are any other universes. However we do know that space travel is possible in this universe, and that thousands of other planets have been discovered in it. Therefore it is more reasonable to propose that they come from someplace we at least know exists or can exist, than to suggest someplace based on pure speculation or that is impossible, or is just pure nonsense. So although I like to give people credit for their ideas, I also believe that it should be given when it is due, and not just because somebody barfed it out while kneeling in front of the toilet hallucinating on whatever, or praying to whatever, or channeling whatever ... you get the picture. Some theories really are better than others.