What Is The Best Hypothesis

[Angel of Ioren]

Well this is pretty sad if it's the best we can do. Half the dialogue has been devoted to arguing about whether or not it's even worthwhile discussing the issue. And when we reach a point where some progress can be made, the whole thing stalls. I see this going on in other threads as well. What is the problem? Is it elitism, laziness, disinterest? Most people seem intelligent enough. Maybe there are really only about 10 people who actually bother contributing to the whole forum.

Maybe our mod can tell us how many people actually post regularly?

j.r.

It's the middle of the week, there are always less posts.
Also, dare I say your constant reminders to vote for things in other threads are actually having the opposite effect. I know I'm finding your "ads" annoying.

 

[tyder001]

Not being a smart ass but yeah it can get to be old hat quickly. this forum mainly is for "discussion" and long winded diatribes that errrr....Oh wait that's me But, anyway it is mainly discussion driven and to many polls (not that theres anything wrong with polls) might get overlooked after awhile. In a recent poll 65% said they made no difference, 15% didn't care one way or the other and 20% said they would die without em.

 

[Hotkafka]

Hey Xylo, I think you are onto something there when you say, " ... another 'Time' would be another dimension." Logically it would have to be. I think that if you expand on this idea, the picture will get even clearer for you. Consider using a computational-model for the existence of the universe and it will happen even faster.

j.r.

Why I am getting the impression you're trying to orchestrate the way people are thinking on this topic? Maybe if you just skipped to the chase and made the covert - overt, we'd all be much better served.

 

[trainedobserver]

The truth as it was revealed to me one strange afternoon in June.

[Wild-eyed and breathless a disheveled figure staggers into the room nosily displacing several small bits of furniture]
They're monsters from the Id! Mental phantoms that take on some as yet not understood pseudo-physical form, communicating utter and complete nonsense mistaken by the hearer as divine utterance or cosmic communication! Simultaneously understood as demons, aliens, and inhabitants of alternate dimensions or the hollow Earth, they are actually none of that and much, much more. They are our own selves wrapping around and through the perceptual barrier to teach us the absurdity of our programmed existence! We ignore or embrace them at the peril of our safety and sanity. [Laughs awkwardly, straightens his tie, and suddenly bolts down the hall]
[I pick up the phone. beep-boop-beep] Hello. I think the bio-tech boys down the hall are spiking the coffee again.

 

[SoCalGNX]

People who participate in these forums are here because they are drawn to specific topics. Part of the fun of being here is being able to communicate freely. If they are interested in being regimented, they have other options.

 

[Hotkafka]

The truth as it was revealed to me one strange afternoon in June.

[Wild-eyed and breathless a disheveled figure staggers into the room nosily displacing several small bits of furniture]
They're monsters from the Id! Mental phantoms that take on some as yet not understood pseudo-physical form, communicating utter and complete nonsense mistaken by the hearer as divine utterance or cosmic communication! Simultaneously understood as demons, aliens, and inhabitants of alternate dimensions or the hollow Earth, they are actually none of that and much, much more. They are our own selves wrapping around and through the perceptual barrier to teach us the absurdity of our programmed existence! We ignore or embrace them at the peril of our safety and sanity. [Laughs awkwardly, straightens his tie, and suddenly bolts down the hall]
[I pick up the phone. beep-boop-beep] Hello. I think the bio-tech boys down the hall are spiking the coffee again.

I dig this. Reminiscent of Celine's Brigadoon with a dash of Phillip K. Dick, perhaps channeled through Vallee.

 

[Randall]

It's the middle of the week, there are always less posts.
Also, dare I say your constant reminders to vote for things in other threads are actually having the opposite effect. I know I'm finding your "ads" annoying.

Annoying? You mean that little note at the end of my posts where I let people know about other threads they might be interested in ... sort of like that one you have at the end of yours to follow you on Twitter? Did you have anything to contribute to topic this thread?

j.r.

---------- Post added at 05:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:02 PM ----------

People who participate in these forums are here because they are drawn to specific topics. Part of the fun of being here is being able to communicate freely. If they are interested in being regimented, they have other options.

Recently I discovered we're not as free here as you think and I'm not "regimenting" anyone. I am trying to explore a topic and have asked for some meaningful input. For example I had left off with the following suggestion:

"If you believe the phenomena associated with UFOs cannot all be attributed to a single hypothesis, then there must be some logic whereby one hypothesis is granted favor over another as it relates to specific phenomena. These intersecting points in our analysis would make excellent points of discussion. Perhaps you could suggest one yourself? Anybody else?"

I also added reputation points to the poster's profile for the depth of thought, even though it had not really contributed to the topic directly.

j.r.

---------- Post added at 05:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:12 PM ----------

Why I am getting the impression you're trying to orchestrate the way people are thinking on this topic? Maybe if you just skipped to the chase and made the covert - overt, we'd all be much better served.

I think you may getting the impression that I am trying to"orchestrate" the thread because I would prefer to see us discuss the topic I started and stay on track with it ( I started the thread ). However it isn't my intention to change "the way" anyone thinks.

Rather, using the example you chose, ( Xylo's exploration of time and dimension - and by the way I think Xylo made a pretty good start with his point and welcome further discussion on it ), from our exchange, the ideas he was expressing and finding interesting can be explored even further using elements of the computational model. Therefore it is something I thought he might be interested in exploring further.

In addition, part of the "thrill of discovery" is seeing out how new information fits into one's own thinking, and that isn't something I can do for anyone. Also, by biting off smaller chunks, those who have not put as much thought into it as Xylo or I, have an opportunity to post responses, ask for clarification, and pose points for further exploration and discourse. It isn't something suited for rolling out in one fell swoop on one of these threads.

Lastly, your concern can also be explored by posing your own response with respect to the topic itself. By all means, please post a question or point of discussion and we'll discuss some of its facets and compare it to other hypotheses to see how well it stacks up against them. Maybe then you will get a more clear perspective on my intent.

j.r.

 

[Angel of Ioren]

Annoying? You mean that little note at the end of my posts where I let people know about other threads they might be interested in ... sort of like that one you have at the end of yours to follow you on Twitter? Did you have anything to contribute to topic this thread?

j.r.

---------- Post added at 05:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:02 PM ----------



Recently I discovered we're not as free here as you think and I'm not "regimenting" anyone. I am trying to explore a topic and have asked for some meaningful input. For example I had left off with the following suggestion:

"If you believe the phenomena associated with UFOs cannot all be attributed to a single hypothesis, then there must be some logic whereby one hypothesis is granted favor over another as it relates to specific phenomena. These intersecting points in our analysis would make excellent points of discussion. Perhaps you could suggest one yourself? Anybody else?"

I also added reputation points to the poster's profile for the depth of thought putting into the post, even though it had not really contributed to the topic directly.

j.r.

You know quite well my twitter account is part of my signature, sort of like how you had your website in yours up until you became concerned with your privacy and freedom. Keep in mind you can do that, as long as you're not linking to a SPAM site or something offensive. You can also do as you have been doing and post your reminders. All I'm saying is that I find them pretty annoying. If you were breaking the rules of the forum, I would have done something about it, but I believe that the forum regulates itself for the most part in these situations. If people have a problem with your constant reminders, they'll let us know.

With regards to whether I had contributed anything to this thread, I did, in post number 3. You even thanked me for it. I think this thread is actually a pretty good idea. Let it be an people will comment and vote. It's up to 5 pages - that is far from bad.

 

[Randall]

You know quite well my twitter account is part of my signature, sort of like how you had your website in yours up until you became concerned with your privacy and freedom. Keep in mind you can do that, as long as you're not linking to a SPAM site or something offensive. You can also do as you have been doing and post your reminders. All I'm saying is that I find them pretty annoying. If you were breaking the rules of the forum, I would have done something about it, but I believe that the forum regulates itself for the most part in these situations. If people have a problem with your constant reminders, they'll let us know.

With regards to whether I had contributed anything to this thread, I did, in post number 3. You even thanked me for it. I think this thread is actually a pretty good idea. Let it be an people will comment and vote. It's up to 5 pages - that is far from bad.

Hey Angelo

I think this forum has a lot more going for it than some others I've been on and the moderators are pretty tolerant. You also have your right to express what you think is annoying as much as anyone else, but at the same time, being in a quasi-leadership role, pointing out in an open forum that you find what I do annoying, especially something as incosequential as a link to another post, isn't something you need to do. Personally I find Twitter really annoying and your signature ensures that it will be there on every post, in essence doubling as an advertisement for a 1.6 billion dollar company with this kind of crap in their TOS:

"You will indemnify, defend, and hold Twitter, its subsidiaries, affiliates, officers, and employees, harmless from any and all claims, damages, losses, liabilities, actions, judgments, costs, and expenses (including reasonable attorneys' fees) brought by a third party arising out of or in connection with: (a) any act or omission by you, in connection with your use of the Twitter Content, the Twitter API, or the Twitter Marks; (b) your use of the Twitter Content, the Twitter API, or the Twitter Marks other than as expressly allowed by this agreement; (c) your breach or alleged breach of any of the terms, restrictions, obligations or representations under this agreement; or (d) your Service. You will assume control of the defense and settlement of any claim subject to indemnification by you. Twitter may, however, at any time elect to take over control of the defense and settlement of any such claim. In any event, you will not settle any such claim without Twitter's prior written consent."

( Not that you botherd to read it or care )

On the other hand, USI is entirely different from Twitter. It is directly related to the topics found on the Paracast, is not a corporate entity, and I have made efforts to network with the Paracast to our mutual gain. I even contributed a logo sample for the scrapbook during the contest ( without actually entering the contest ).

Although USI isn't huge and powerful, I get around 10,000 legitimate hits a month and we have around 2000 members worldwide. My website is open for anyone to visit freely. Not putting my link at the end of every post has nothing to do with preserving my privacy. It just gets redundant at the end of every post in every thread. The USI emblem for my avatar serves to fill the gap.

Now, did you want to add anything new to the topic of discussion here?

j.r.

P.S. Yes I have made a habit of thanking everyone who makes a comment in my threads, no matter what they have to say, and I add reputation points to those who put in more of an effort and contribute constructively.

 

[The Pair of Cats]

Well this is pretty sad if it's the best we can do. Half the dialogue has been devoted to arguing about whether or not it's even worthwhile discussing the issue. And when we reach a point where some progress can be made, the whole thing stalls. I see this going on in other threads as well. What is the problem? Is it elitism, laziness, disinterest? Most people seem intelligent enough. Maybe there are really only about 10 people who actually bother contributing to the whole forum.

Maybe our mod can tell us how many people actually post regularly?

j.r.

The question that you ask, via your poll, has been discussed here several times in various other threads. As for participation in this thread or lack thereof in this case, it happens. Sometimes threads are posted and only 1 or 2 people bother to reply. Sometimes none at all. It happens
Maybe people are tired of answering the question time and time again. Maybe they don't like polls. Maybe if your auntie had balls, she'd be your uncle, i don't know.
The lure of having your reputation enhanced is no incentive either. It's somewhat akin to receiving a spam email for penis enlargement.

 

[softbeard]

Also, by biting off smaller chunks, those who have not put as much thought into it as Xylo or I,j.r.

Oh, get over yourself ufology. You're not going to learn the secrets of the universe here, no matter how much you gaze at your navel. This is a discussion forum, not some road to enlightenment.

 

[Randall]

Oh, get over yourself ufology. You're not going to learn the secrets of the universe here, no matter how much you gaze at your navel. This is a discussion forum, not some road to enlightenment.

You'll have to do a whole lot better than that if you want your flame to have any effect. Perhaps you should try another thread ... no wait, excuse me, I should rephrase that, "flamers" are actually more "professional", according to Wikipedia your comment fits more in the "troll" category.

"In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum."

j.r.

 

[Angel of Ioren]

Hey Angelo

I think this forum has a lot more going for it than some others I've been on and the moderators are pretty tolerant. You also have your right to express what you think is annoying as much as anyone else, but at the same time, being in a quasi-leadership role, pointing out in an open forum that you find what I do annoying, especially something as incosequential as a link to another post, isn't something you need to do. Personally I find Twitter really annoying and your signature ensures that it will be there on every post, in essence doubling as an advertisement for a 1.6 billion dollar company with this kind of crap in their TOS:

"You will indemnify, defend, and hold Twitter, its subsidiaries, affiliates, officers, and employees, harmless from any and all claims, damages, losses, liabilities, actions, judgments, costs, and expenses (including reasonable attorneys' fees) brought by a third party arising out of or in connection with: (a) any act or omission by you, in connection with your use of the Twitter Content, the Twitter API, or the Twitter Marks; (b) your use of the Twitter Content, the Twitter API, or the Twitter Marks other than as expressly allowed by this agreement; (c) your breach or alleged breach of any of the terms, restrictions, obligations or representations under this agreement; or (d) your Service. You will assume control of the defense and settlement of any claim subject to indemnification by you. Twitter may, however, at any time elect to take over control of the defense and settlement of any such claim. In any event, you will not settle any such claim without Twitter's prior written consent."

( Not that you botherd to read it or care )

On the other hand, USI is entirely different from Twitter. It is directly related to the topics found on the Paracast, is not a corporate entity, and I have made efforts to network with the Paracast to our mutual gain. I even contributed a logo sample for the scrapbook during the contest ( without actually entering the contest ).

Although USI isn't huge and powerful, I get around 10,000 legitimate hits a month and we have around 2000 members worldwide. My website is open for anyone to visit freely. Not putting my link at the end of every post has nothing to do with preserving my privacy. It just gets redundant at the end of every post in every thread. The USI emblem for my avatar serves to fill the gap.

Now, did you want to add anything new to the topic of discussion here?

j.r.

P.S. Yes I have made a habit of thanking everyone who makes a comment in my threads, no matter what they have to say, and I add reputation points to those who put in more of an effort and contribute constructively.

You really need to relax dude. It's Twitter - I basically write stupid jokes on there and follow comedians and video game journalists. I'm not worried about the TOS because I'm not paranoid about these things. I have absolutely nothing to hide. I also don't get phone calls from shady characters claiming I know too much.

Gene's the boss of this forum and he has told me that I can post my opinions as even though I am a moderator - something all Paracast moderators do. Once he decides that will change, the moderator badge will be gone from my name.

As for this thread, Paul Kimball said it best in another poll that you can find here:

The Ultimate UFO Poll: Real, Fake, Spaceships or What?

The quote from Paul:

To me, the only possible answer is "I don't know". Anyone who tells you that they do know for sure what UFOs are isn't being honest with themselves, or you - what they mean to say is that they believe X or Y is what UFOs are, but the truly unidentified cases remain a mystery, with many possible explanations.

 

[tyder001]

Also, when you "thank" someone it means you either agree, disagree but respect their logic or thought, Think they make a good argument or in some way find their post adds to the discussion in a positive or at least an intelligent way. But, if you run around "thanking" everybody and "adding" reputation points to everybody and then turn around and call them flamers or other names you defeat the whole purpose. There are people on here who I disagree with but repect and even appreciate their "thanks" But, if everybody just goes around adding "Thanks" but your a flamer. Thanks but you add nothing to the discussion. You kind of defeat the whole purpose. Hey, we could take a poll....Don't do it dude! I was kidding. But, anyway that's my two cents this morning.

 

[softbeard]

You'll have to do a whole lot better than that if you want your flame to have any effect. Perhaps you should try another thread ... no wait, excuse me, I should rephrase that, "flamers" are actually more "professional", according to Wikipedia your comment fits more in the "troll" category.

Huh? That was a flame? Now I'm trolling too?

Well! I've never been so insulted in my life. How dare you, you...you bad UFO-type person. My feelings are now hurt.
And all this, coming from a fellow Canadian too... oh the wrongness of it, sniff, the ignominy. And to be called an 'unprofessional' flamer; how low below-the-belt can you get.
You sir are not a nice UFO person.

There. Now I need to be off to light my incense, make myself some mint tea, assume my yoga position, and meditate to reachieve my chi balance.

 

[Angel of Ioren]

Too bad you don't get that rejecting the TOS has nothing to do with paranoia or whether or not it makes you liable for something someone else does, or that you've traded a little piece of your freedom from the machine to post "stupid jokes".

But there is something useful that you could do here. Before starting this thread I did a search for this topic using the word "hypothesis" and found nothing. However you are correct that it has been discussed elsewhere ... most specifically here: ( Gene's thread ).
https://www.theparacast.com/forum/t...-Real-Fake-Spaceships-or-What?p=1174#post1174

These threads can be merged. Also, since the polls can be adjusted on your side of the fence, maybe you could add some of the choices found here but are missing from the other poll, to the original poll. In this case it wouldn't have any effect on the integrity of the poll itself. Also, if you merge, please by all means, delete any posts from here that you don't think are relevant ( like this one and a few others ). It was a mistake to start this thread and the only benefit is the extra poll option for CZH.

j.r.

I'll leave the threads as is. Merging a poll will create a mess and it's fine that you created another poll. It's no big deal.

On another note: Freedom from the machine? Give me a break. It's Twitter. You don't want to use it or you don't get it. That's fine, but get over yourself.

 

[trainedobserver]

"Oh the humanity!"
Herbert Morrison

"People, people, people. Drink the Kool-Aid. Drink the Kool-Aid."
Jim Jones

 

[Angel of Ioren]

Urban dictionary: get over yourself:

What is said to someone who takes themselves a bit too seriously and is one snotty way to tell someone "chill out already".

OK since you want to be "snotty". Who the F are you to tell me how seriously I should take myself and to get snotty with forum members? Why don't you reserve your comments on my personality and do the job you volunteered for.

j.r.

Alright dude - if you feel like I'm being snotty, that's cool. Keep in mind it goes both ways.

 

[Randall]

Ok, say you have a mothership visiting planets and sending out little probes and mini ships - sure, but why would you take such a behemoth into lower atmosphere? Who is the show being put on for? ... This appears to be less about nuts and bolts craft and more to do with magic and misdirection, like some off strip extravagant, unadvertised Vegas show.

Are you suggesting an Earth based simulation for carrier reports? Please elaborate. I'm not clear on what you are getting at.

Regarding reasons why an interstellar carrier might enter the atmosphere: If they operate on principles similar to the smaller craft, then issues like gravity aren't much of a problem for them, and positioning may be a simple matter of logistics e.g. optimal rendezvous coordinates for shuttle or probe deployment or retrieval. Coincidentally ( or otherwise ), The JAL 1628 case included the sighting of smaller craft in conjunction with a carrier sized craft.

 

[mike]

The answers all come from the Biological bias

Transbiological hypothesis works for me