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Whats the typical view of chem trails around here?

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One thing I know for sure is that the video I posted a link to in the OP claimed contrails last for 30 secs - 1min. That is total bullshit. I should have thought more about it when I saw it.

At least in Australia, contrails that Ive seen (including yesterday) last far at least 30mins, gradually losing shape/structure over that time.
 
What is laughable is saying they are ALL contrials, Jose. The rational debate what they are and are they useful/harmful. I am sorry you call obvious spraying of patters by planes "contrails" because that is intellectually dishonest IMO. The sun is also not real....
 
contrails do not go from one horizon to the other and spread out into clouds without ever dissipating. why would another jet flying at the same time NOT leave a persistent contrail?
and finally why would a contrail turn off and on?

How do you judge the altitude of the aircraft from a ground level observation? How do you know they're flying at the same altitude? To claim another aircraft MUST leave a contrail is to assume they're flying at the same altitude and the weather is an element that doesn't alter.

Contrails turning ON and OFF is due to pockets of moisture. Meteorologists explain this very simply.
 
What is laughable is saying they are ALL contrials, Jose. The rational debate what they are and are they useful/harmful. I am sorry you call obvious spraying of patters by planes "contrails" because that is intellectually dishonest IMO. The sun is also not real....

No, intellectually dishonest is claiming chemtrails are anything BUT contrails because contrails are backed by physics and free of assumptions. Chemtrails on the other hand are speculative.

Got proof chemtrails exist? Because I have mountains of proof backed by meteorologists that contrails exist.

Chemtrail researchers claim "chemtrails" exist. The bourdon of proof is on THEM to prove they exist.

So...proof. Got any?
 
Show me proof chemtrails exist outside of crop dusting. Crop dusting chemtrails dissipate and are applied relatively close to the ground.

Show me proof backing the claims of the alleged chemicals in chemtrails.

Show me something, other than speculation.
 
Very nice, pixelsmith.

This is all still in my grey basket, but my biggest question is: if the purported chemtrails are nothing more than contrails, how come mainstream news has not presented us this simple explanation by professional meteorologists? Why does the subject seem so taboo?

I'm not implying that the lack of coverage gives evidence of a conspiracy - I think it simply needs to be addressed and, knowing absolutely nothing about the structure of the troposphere and stratosphere nor the chemistry of jet fuel, I cannot rightfully ignore either side of the argument.
 
Very nice, pixelsmith.

This is all still in my grey basket, but my biggest question is: if the purported chemtrails are nothing more than contrails, how come mainstream news has not presented us this simple explanation by professional meteorologists? Why does the subject seem so taboo?

I'm not implying that the lack of coverage gives evidence of a conspiracy - I think it simply needs to be addressed and, knowing absolutely nothing about the structure of the troposphere and stratosphere nor the chemistry of jet fuel, I cannot rightfully ignore either side of the argument.

you wonder why the subject is taboo? maybe because it is illegal to soft kill entire populations.
 
I know nothing about the issue of chem or contrails, but having read this thread I am surprised nobody has mentioned Global dimming, and no I'm not referring to levels of intelligence. Pleasedont think me a wise ass, cause I dont dont know much about it but the following link may be useful;
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/programmes/horizon/dimming_qa.shtml

The bit about the 9/11 study I had heard about, and the question of whatever might be the reason for deliberately screwing around with light levels is all very scary at least to me.

Mark
 
Karsten Brandt? Oh...my....god. Have you read his report?

Pixelsmith, when I ask for proof, I actually mean proof.

Chemical spraying has been used in the past. The UK has the most astonishing tale of chemical spraying. Unfortunately, no one ever mentions the spraying form ground level that also took place because aerial spraying was ineffective.

Again...I ask for proof, not speculative reports.

The theorist's hypothesis is that contrails are really chemtrails, this is not supported by any evidence whatsoever, and requires a huge international conspiracy involving hundreds of government officials, pilots, airplane technicians, etc.

Karsten Brandt has correlated patterns of heavy artificial cloud-cover with the areas of known military jet exercises in Germany during 2005 and 2006. Patterns which no one can deny could possibly be contrails. Simply put, we are establishing the chemtrail argument using satellite imagery of high air traffic areas. What about the aircraft that isn't military based? Are they guilty too? What about the aircraft during WW1 and WW2? Were they death bringers from the NWO also?

The article is bunk. Plain and simple. It doesn't even claim to be scientific. It's full of speculation with zero evidence. I could have written a more convincing article in 10 minutes with both my arms sawn off. The links to Clifford Carnicom's website, who is supposed to have samples which he sent to several authorities, but all he got in response were letters stating "no, we do not spray you with chemicals". So I guess his first witness has been paid off by the NWO to simply refute the claims Karsten Brandt has made? Dude, that's like putting someone on your CV as a referee only to have them diss you to potential employers.

Let's take a look at his "scientific article"...

QUOTE: "2.4 Frequency of Trails and Why This Factor Alone Should Raise Suspicion.
From my observations, it seems that spraying seems to take place on 3 or 4 days per week."

From his observations it seems to take place on 3 or 4 days a week. Hows that for evidence? He isn't sure how often they occur, but he does know it's regular? Huh? What? Huhhhh? Major fail on his part.

QUOTE: "Though its pattern varies somewhat, aircraft often seem to follow the same flight path (a SouthEast to North West path is often repeated over my own house)."

Aircraft passing over his house "often seem to follow the same flight path". Could this be because he's living near part of the grid pattern of the FAA (as mentioned in the letter of the FAA on page 5)?

QUOTE: "Even just considering this factor should raise suspicion. For example in a run of 3 days, with the same weather conditions at ground level, there may be significant trailing on one day and then little or none on the other 2 days."

Weather conditions at ground level don't affect things in the sky. That is a fact. Hhow often does this happen? "There may be" is pretty vague if you ask me.

QUOTE: "If the trails are caused by civilian air traffic, as most people tend to assume, then this does not make any sense, because the amount of civilian air traffic over a given area on any given day should be relatively constant, or at least will be similar on each subsequent Monday, Tuesday etc."

He cannot quantify the differences? Ouch!

All this is from HIS research article.

So then you follow this link (http://willthomasonline.net/willt...line/Chemtrails_On_German_TV.html ). The link that takes you to a poorly designed website that looks like it was designed by a blind monkey. In it, it clearly states the results of his evidence. It goes something like "Blah blah blah, I got the results back from the lab, blah blah blah, they found barrium in our water, blah blah". Yet, not a single footnote of where this data came from. How very pseudoscientific and convenient. No sane person with a background in science would dare make a statement unless they had footnotes directing the skeptical to the source of the information.

You can believe in chemtrails. There's nothing wrong with belief. Unfortunately, no one can claim they are real. Not even this hack meteorologist who has written the most unscientific bile I've read in a loooooong time.

Chemtrails are contrails. Contrails are backed by physics and the understanding of weather patterns. Chemtrails are fantasy with zero evidence.

Again, proof, got any?
 
Pixelsmith, when I ask for proof, I actually mean proof.
i cannot prove anything and neither can you. i can however use my common sense when i observe 2 jets flying over head, one leaving a trail from one horizon to another and the other leaving a trail that disappears within seconds. knowing that my community is required to put fluoride in our city water supply gives me reason to suspect what is being put in our air supply.

no one said ALL contrails are chemtrails.
 
i cannot prove anything and neither can you.

What proof would you like Jose to provide? He cant prove a negative.

The burden of proof is on you in this case.

If youre basing the main thrust of your argument on a sighting of one jet leaving a long contrail and jet near it at the same time leaving nothing, then you have an incredibly weak case IMO.

There are any number of variables that could be complicating matters.
 
I think this all needs to be discussed with respect to probability, because I think pixelsmith is absolutely right in that he can't prove anything but neither can Jose.

I think Jose's argument has more weight than pixelsmith's, but I would not say he is necessarily correct. Maybe some will defer to Jose's assertions as correct for now, but that is only because Jose's assertions are more probable.

I think it is also important to keep in mind that probability is relatively subjective in the sense that it is determined by the volume of knowledge each individual possesses at any given point. No one individual knows the TRUTH, but we learn more each day. So the chemtrail theory is less probable today, but maybe more information will come to light in the future and give the theory of chemtrails higher probability...maybe not.

It is the same when I speak with my skeptic family members about the reality of UFOs. They regard the reality of UFOs with a low probability. I tell them I attribute a high probability to the reality of UFOs because I have read more about the subject than they have and I simply possess more information about UFOs. I tell my family members they would probably think differently if they knew more.

Who is right and who is wrong? I think that is yet to be determined.
 
i guess my NW airline pilot friend must be wrong too. i better inform him he is full of shit. i can't believe i fell for this. :rolleyes:
 
lol. riight.. i am going to tell you his name.
the only thing he would say after leaving our cell phones behind and walking about a mile down a bike path is this. "sky spiders" are active on a daily basis throughout the USA. he has been told to keep his mouth shut or else. he does not know what comes out of them, he does not know who flies them, he does not know where they come from, he does know that he cannot talk about them, or UFOs. (yes, he has seen several.)
yes, i realize this is no proof. it is suspicious tho.
 
Right, I'm sorry I should have been more clear. I wasn't looking for a name, but more so what your relation with the individual is (old friend, random dude, etc.).
 
friend of 20 years. very level headed, very guarded about discussing anything in the air.
 
Actually, the bourdon of proof isn't on me. I say chemtrails are contrails because contrails are again, backed by physics and free of assumptions.

You say chemtrails are real because....of your observations?

So, if you believe chemtrails are real according to your observations, then you are basing that on an assumption and speculation.

So, until you can provide proof the contrails are anything but, you are welcome to include "I assume" or "I speculate" in your argument. In which case, your argument will be more acceptable...but still not qualified as proof.

"If youre basing the main thrust of your argument on a sighting of one jet leaving a long contrail and jet near it at the same time leaving nothing, then you have an incredibly weak case IMO."

No Gareth, I am basing my argument of facts. On basic physics. On general meteorology. What are the chemtrail activists basing their opinion? A ground level observation. Nice.
 
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