April 4th show - Hopkins, Randle & Jacobs

[paraschtick]

Tom From Hong Kong has always been a respectful guy and I think he was just throwing out the possibility of an Emma-INTEL operation as a thought experiment of sorts, thus no offense, but I think we're having enough difficulty staying focused on the implications of the Emma-DJ case within the larger context of the Alien Abduction-Hypnotic Regression topic to add a conspiracy overlay---which honestly seems completely ridiculous and distracting to even refute.

I agree. I know the CIA/MI5/MI6/Mossad etc have had their paws in all sorts of things in the past and present but not in this case I believe. I think as you say its just distracting the real issue of hypnosis etc.. Please no more comments on whether Emma is a super spy of some kind.

[Oh and if you are going to be conspiratorially minded I can think of at two other more likely scenarios:

(1) A guy working for shady people with intelligence connections who is leading people to believe that there are scary alien hybrids breeding with human beings ... leading the gullible away from the true facts (whatever they are)

and

(2) A guy who is experimenting on "research subjects" in a continuation of MK Ultra experiments of the 50s and 60s

Both total nonsense of course since Dr Jacobs is neither a psychiatrist which would be needed in case (2) and is also totally incompetent it seems ... so that kind of rules out (1) in my mind as well ]

 

[Capnkumquat]

I just have a problem with someone who has no medical, or psychological credentials, whatsoever, delivering a prognosis of multiple personality disorder, and giving hypnotherapy OVER THE PHONE! I'm pretty sure there are ETHICAL and MEDICAL problems with this methodology.

Emma is doing what any person who was wronged in this way and then disavowed by such a prominent personage would do...fight back any way possible. If it takes an obsession to break through, and vindicate yourself and protect others from similar treatment, then so be it. Blaming the victim to support a ufological hero is not cool or beneficial to getting at any truth about UFO's.

After listening to the tapes in question (especially the now famous tape 8) it seems that Dr. Jacobs is certainly covering up his techniques, his wild (near outlandish) credulity of alien hybrids stalking him, and his mistreatment of this person and several others who are waiting in the wings.

My guess is this story isn't over and it has legs.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

Did you actually read Jacobs' statement about the "multiple personality disorder" comment and why it was made?

 

[Capnkumquat]

Did you listen to him threaten Emma on the phone with declaring her "mentally disturbed" if she came out with her story of what happened? It seems his diagnosis came AFTER she realized that she had been misled, abused, manipulated, and had false memories implanted.

Declaring her to be "damaged" seems like a convenient and natural out for someone with no scruples.

I'll go read the statement, if you go listen to the phone conversations (not hypnosis sessions) but the after the fact negotiations for release of the now queered information. I have a feeling that hours of being on the hot seat will be far more telling that a statement released by someone attempting to cover some pretty strange doings.

 

[Gene Steinberg]

It takes just a short time to read that document. I would have thought you had by now. It would be the equivalent of listening to a ten minute recorded segment of one of those sessions.

 

[Capnkumquat]

Do you have a link?

BTW, in 2008 a certified therapist gave Emma Woods a normal bill of health. This is after Dr. Jacobs suggestion otherwise. Who are you going to believe?... A doctor of History or a certified and qualified professional therapist.

Therapist's Statement - 2008 Prior to retiring, I was a qualified therapist and a member of [professional therapist's association]. I was [Emma Woods'] therapist for ten years working on general life issues, during which she worked on issues relating to unexplained personal experiences. During this time I made no judgments as to the source of the experiences and came to realize there was very intriguing and unexplainable material revealed. I suggested that Emma write a history of her experiences and make an ongoing record of the experiences as they occurred.

In 2002, at Emma's request, I wrote a therapy assessment of her. I continue to stand by that assessment. Emma is psychologically normal, exhibits no personality disorders, thought disorders, or mental illness. I believe that she is being truthful in relating her experiences as she perceives them, although we both think that the experiences are not easily explained and may be beyond our current comprehension.

I retired at the end of 2002, but because I was intrigued by the data that Emma was gathering about her experiences I volunteered to provide ongoing comment about the data, methods of collection, and data management. For personal reasons unconnected with the situation, I stopped assisting her with her record at the end of 2006. We currently remain in touch through periodic phone conversations.

I am pleased that Emma is continuing with her record. I wish her all the best with it.



Signed: [signed] Date: June 24th, 2008
[Justin Armstrong]

 

[Gene Steinberg]

You've never been to Jacobs' site? You can't judge this matter without checking both sides. At least I've read Emma's comments here, her letters to me and lots of other material on the subject from different points of view.

Jacobs' site is linked to his name on our home page.

 

[Tom From Hong Kong]

Do you have a link?

BTW, in 2008 a certified therapist gave Emma Woods a normal bill of health. This is after Dr. Jacobs suggestion otherwise. Who are you going to believe?... A doctor of History or a certified and qualified professional therapist.

Therapist's Statement - 2008 Prior to retiring, I was a qualified therapist and a member of [professional therapist's association]. I was [Emma Woods'] therapist for ten years working on general life issues, during which she worked on issues relating to unexplained personal experiences. During this time I made no judgments as to the source of the experiences and came to realize there was very intriguing and unexplainable material revealed. I suggested that Emma write a history of her experiences and make an ongoing record of the experiences as they occurred.

In 2002, at Emma's request, I wrote a therapy assessment of her. I continue to stand by that assessment. Emma is psychologically normal, exhibits no personality disorders, thought disorders, or mental illness. I believe that she is being truthful in relating her experiences as she perceives them, although we both think that the experiences are not easily explained and may be beyond our current comprehension.

I retired at the end of 2002, but because I was intrigued by the data that Emma was gathering about her experiences I volunteered to provide ongoing comment about the data, methods of collection, and data management. For personal reasons unconnected with the situation, I stopped assisting her with her record at the end of 2006. We currently remain in touch through periodic phone conversations.

I am pleased that Emma is continuing with her record. I wish her all the best with it.



Signed: [signed] Date: June 24th, 2008
[Justin Armstrong]

Underdog, do you have a source or link for this therapist statement?

The skeptics will question why an individual would see a therapist for an entire decade (presumably 1992 - 2002) to discuss "general life issues" related to "unexplained personal experiences," without a more significant underlying problem requiring treatment. Ten years is a very long time for treatment, particularly if the payments are coming out of your own pocket (would a public welfare health system pay for UFO-related trauma?). Is "Justin Armstrong" the therapists actual name, or a cover name to protect the therapist's true identity? Was he based and licensed in New Zealand during the period in question? Is there a public database to confirm the qualifications of licensed therapists in New Zealand? Any other indication as to the provenance of the statement?

Sorry for the questions, but they are quite logical given the circumstances.

 

[paraschtick]

Did you actually read Jacobs' statement about the "multiple personality disorder" comment and why it was made?

Gene, I just read it again ... and it in my mind is still unethical treatment of someone under hypnosis. But as always thats just my opinion.

[And again, the reason why Emma went along with this, in my mind, is that she was vulnerable and trusted Dr Jacobs implicitly. Yes, it was a very silly thing to do ... but she admits this. I can attest to doing dumb things when in a vulnerable position. Having an acute anxiety disorder makes me extremely vulnerable in almost everyday situations. Luckily I can now control it to some extent, but sometimes I have the urge to do something that in respect is really dumb. So I find her situation totally understandable.]

---------- Post added at 01:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:23 PM ----------

Underdog, do you have a source or link for this therapist statement?

The skeptics will question why an individual would see a therapist for an entire decade (presumably 1992 - 2002) to discuss "general life issues" related to "unexplained personal experiences," without a more significant underlying problem requiring treatment. Ten years is a very long time for treatment, particularly if the payments are coming out of your own pocket (would a public welfare health system pay for UFO-related trauma?). Is "Justin Armstrong" the therapists actual name, or a cover name to protect the therapist's true identity? Was he based and licensed in New Zealand during the period in question? Is there a public database to confirm the qualifications of licensed therapists in New Zealand? Any other indication as to the provenance of the statement?

Sorry for the questions, but they are quite logical given the circumstances.

Some of this is explained on Emma's website (http://www.ufoalienabductee.com/) except for her location of course, and I think how she funded this treatment. Justin Armstrong is a pseudonym, and as far as I know he was a "proper" therapist ie a psychiatrist.

More here: http://www.ufoalienabductee.com/therapy-assessment.html

Oh and Underdog, Dr Jacobs website is here: http://www.ufoabduction.com/

and his "Defamation Campaign" page is here :International Center for Abduction Research

 

[Capnkumquat]

I agree with your skepticism, I just don't have unlimited time to look into everything. This letter came from Emma Woods web site, but was originally posted on Dr. Jacobs website as the person who suggested that Emma see Dr. Jacobs. I'll assume that Dr. Jacobs checked out the letter and the person before he posted it on his website.

I am being told to believe Dr. Jacobs and to "skeptically" check up on Emma Woods. I'm saying, Dr. Jacobs has no medical degree and has been recorded trying to cover his own arse with the reputation of one of his clients. This makes me naturally come to the side of the underdog...the person with no reputation, no power, no authority who seemingly has been abused by someone they trusted.

I'll read Dr. Jacobs statement, but I'm not sure how a one sided explanation will stack up against the conversation I heard between the two.

 

[Kieran]

I agree with your skepticism, I just don't have unlimited time to look into everything. This letter came from Emma Woods web site, but was originally posted on Dr. Jacobs website as the person who suggested that Emma see Dr. Jacobs. I'll assume that Dr. Jacobs checked out the letter and the person before he posted it on his website.

I am being told to believe Dr. Jacobs and to "skeptically" check up on Emma Woods. I'm saying, Dr. Jacobs has no medical degree and has been recorded trying to cover his own arse with the reputation of one of his clients. This makes me naturally come to the side of the underdog...the person with no reputation, no power, no authority who seemingly has been abused by someone they trusted.

I'll read Dr. Jacobs statement, but I'm not sure how a one sided explanation will stack up against the conversation I heard between the two.

The real worrying aspect about this whole mess is hypnosis has been used by the UFO community for the last 40 years plus. 4O years of crap data and evidence?

 

[Capnkumquat]

Dr. Jacobs statement-1
"I began to realize that her behavior indicated that she was growing more obsessed as time went on. I haven't experienced this kind of troubling behavior in all the years I've been working with men and women who describe possible UFO abduction experiences."

-and yet he never considered turning her back over to her therapist with a recommendation for someone with true phsychological credentials to help her.

Dr. Jacobs statement-2
In October 2006 I began to receive aggressive e-mails from her e-mail address--Alice said she did not remember writing them. In all, I received 31 e-mails with 12 different messages, all forceful and disturbing.

-It seemed on the tapes that Emma stated she believed Elizabeth (Dr. Jacobs assistant) had forged her e-mail address and was falsifying some e-mails both to Emma and Dr. Jacobs. (don't quote me on this, but that's what I remember) Emma seemed to have evidence that Elizabeth had done this.

Dr. Jacobs statement-3
If the situation Alice reported was true and actual “hybrid beings” were threatening her, I felt I had to try to protect her from them. And obviously if Alice's reports were true, I had to try to protect myself as well. If abduction research can be trusted, alien beings have telepathic abilities and know what people are thinking; therefore, protecting both Alice and myself was a major challenge.

-WTF...protect her and yourself from actual hybrids! Can you produce even one hybrid Dr. Jacobs?

Dr. Jacobs statement-4
During the last few calls that I had with Alice I learned that she had been secretly taping every private phone call she made to me outside of the hypnosis sessions.

-This is a bold faced lie. Emma tells Dr. Jacobs that she is recording and he seems befuddled because he can't find his own recorder. He knew very well that he was being recorded.

Dr. Jacobs statement-4
What is Alice's goal? Why is she deliberately trying to destroy me? To find an answer to these questions, I've consulted confidentially with a variety of psychologists, psychiatrists, and therapists. The overwhelming consensus is that Alice's stalking and obsessive behavior is consistent with Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD), although these medical professionals cannot, of course, make a formal diagnosis without seeing her.

-He behavior is consistent with BPD...but they have never spoken with her...how convenient that you still assert the psychological disorder without the patient being examined.

Dr. Jacobs statement-5
Her problems ultimately went beyond my abilities.

-Beyond the abilities of a History Professor.

I could go on and on, but the statement by Dr. Jacobs of course, puts a positive spin on his side and leaves Emma to the wolves. I stand by my assertion that the tapes are a more revealing about their personal and professional relationship.

 

[dyingsun]

Still, why would anyone act like this if it wasn't for the attention ? I don't take either side, but why she deems to make it 'public' to the few who care about all this is beyond me, especially when I look at her website."To warn others" one might say, probably with reason, but honestly, what sane person would do something like this if actual suing in a court would be in their mind.

 

[Kieran]

Still, why would anyone act like this if it wasn't for the attention ? I don't take either side, but why she deems to make it 'public' to the few who care about all this is beyond me, especially when I look at her website."To warn others" one might say, probably with reason, but honestly, what sane person would do something like this if actual suing in a court would be in their mind.

I beginning to tune out to this whole affair. When you've a history teacher making statements that he was being threatened by Alien hybrids. It's Time to shout up shop and simply ignore this guy. No buts and ifs. Like does nobody see Jacobs believe systems are tainted here and there is no way in hell this guy such be allowed to treat vulnerable people.

 

[dyingsun]

I beginning to tune out to this whole affair. When you've a history teacher making statements that he was being threatened by Alien hybrids. It's Time to shout up shop and simply ignore this guy. No buts and ifs. Like does nobody see Jacobs believe systems are tainted here and there is no way in hell this guy such be allowed to treat vulnerable people.

I totally get you and agree, I still don't get why all this is so totally 'blown out of proportions' if it could have been handled more delicately and/or quiet.

 

[ArchieBedford]

I still don't get why all this is so totally 'blown out of proportions' if it could have been handled more delicately and/or quiet.

Hi dyingsun.

It's this aspect which leads the more suspicious and perhaps paranoid observers to give credence to the possibility that there is INTEL involvement in this case, that it's not about any kind of liability or malpractice issue - nothing sticks after 3 years and maybe there is no intention in this direction by the assumed ID masquerading as "Emma Woods." It is, they say, an operation to discredit abduction research in the public eye because they're getting too close to something real.

It's probably useful to point out that DJ himself gives absolutely no credence to this notion either in public or in private. He does not even believe the Roswell crash was ET: he thinks it was a mogul balloon, and maintains that the government and its agencies have absolutely no interest in this whole field.

 

[Paul Kimball]

Hi dyingsun.

It's this aspect which leads the more suspicious and perhaps paranoid observers to give credence to the possibility that there is INTEL involvement in this case, that it's not about any kind of liability or malpractice issue - nothing sticks after 3 years and maybe there is no intention in this direction by the assumed ID masquerading as "Emma Woods." It is, they say, an operation to discredit abduction research in the public eye because they're getting too close to something real.

It's probably useful to point out that DJ himself gives absolutely no credence to this notion either in public or in private. He does not even believe the Roswell crash was ET: he thinks it was a mogul balloon, and maintains that the government and its agencies have absolutely no interest in this whole field.

Then why even discuss it (and I know you didn't bring it up)? Honestly, this is the kind of thing that sends sensible people running from the UFO phenomenon as fast as they can. You can't just float a trial balloon about the super duper secret agencies being behind this, and then unring that bell (to mix my metaphors). Barring any evidence - of which there is none at this point - then it's not even worth discussion.

And the key word in your post above is "paranoid."

 

[alzo]

Hi dyingsun.

.... give credence to the possibility that there is INTEL involvement in this case, that it's not about any kind of liability or malpractice issue.....

Just when you think this case couldn't get any more "noise" in it some one has to mention Government "INTEL", Oh well least it wasn't "PSYOPS".

 

[paraschtick]

I totally get you and agree, I still don't get why all this is so totally 'blown out of proportions' if it could have been handled more delicately and/or quiet.

IF you listen to to Emmas audio files, it shows that she tried to come to some kind of agreement with Dr Jacobs ... an agreement that would look good for BOTH of them. I find this considerate in the extreme regarding what has happened to her.

Dr Jacobs agree to this in notion but then of course started trying to take control over the whole process it seemed to me. He has really control problems, and if he isn't in control then its a big problem for him ie he is a control freak. Listen to Audio file 8 and I think you'll the entire thing play out.

As I've just taken a sleep tablet I should now fashion the rest of this message ins a starange mannerr ... snorooororeeee

Night folks ... oh and Dr Jacobs is a dipstick in my most intellectual opinion ... so there

[and no she is not intel cos I've been in contact with her, and I've not been shot in the back of the head or blown up or anything yet ... having bloody problems typing this though ... might have get to bed now ... begorraaaahhh ]

 

[codex]

I would like to agree with underdog, Jacobs seems to change his postion with the consumate ease of a snake oil medicine man, Jacobs' lack of professionalism is amazing and I am surprised a Univeristy allows him to work under their auspices. Just who are these experts who diagnose his research subject as having borderline personality disorder??? Very easy to call someone a stalker (check out his website) and make all these claims none of which he verifies but seems to think I or we would just accept because he made them. At least Alice or Emma backs up her stuff with evidence. Jacobs does not provide any.

It is ashame that Jacobs has chosen to do a great dis-service to a community that finds it hard to be get acceptance or fairness from the others.

Dr. Jacobs statement-1
"I began to realize that her behavior indicated that she was growing more obsessed as time went on. I haven't experienced this kind of troubling behavior in all the years I've been working with men and women who describe possible UFO abduction experiences."

-and yet he never considered turning her back over to her therapist with a recommendation for someone with true phsychological credentials to help her.

Dr. Jacobs statement-2
In October 2006 I began to receive aggressive e-mails from her e-mail address--Alice said she did not remember writing them. In all, I received 31 e-mails with 12 different messages, all forceful and disturbing.

-It seemed on the tapes that Emma stated she believed Elizabeth (Dr. Jacobs assistant) had forged her e-mail address and was falsifying some e-mails both to Emma and Dr. Jacobs. (don't quote me on this, but that's what I remember) Emma seemed to have evidence that Elizabeth had done this.

Dr. Jacobs statement-3
If the situation Alice reported was true and actual “hybrid beings” were threatening her, I felt I had to try to protect her from them. And obviously if Alice's reports were true, I had to try to protect myself as well. If abduction research can be trusted, alien beings have telepathic abilities and know what people are thinking; therefore, protecting both Alice and myself was a major challenge.

-WTF...protect her and yourself from actual hybrids! Can you produce even one hybrid Dr. Jacobs?

Dr. Jacobs statement-4
During the last few calls that I had with Alice I learned that she had been secretly taping every private phone call she made to me outside of the hypnosis sessions.

-This is a bold faced lie. Emma tells Dr. Jacobs that she is recording and he seems befuddled because he can't find his own recorder. He knew very well that he was being recorded.

Dr. Jacobs statement-4
What is Alice's goal? Why is she deliberately trying to destroy me? To find an answer to these questions, I've consulted confidentially with a variety of psychologists, psychiatrists, and therapists. The overwhelming consensus is that Alice's stalking and obsessive behavior is consistent with Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD), although these medical professionals cannot, of course, make a formal diagnosis without seeing her.

-He behavior is consistent with BPD...but they have never spoken with her...how convenient that you still assert the psychological disorder without the patient being examined.

Dr. Jacobs statement-5
Her problems ultimately went beyond my abilities.

-Beyond the abilities of a History Professor.

I could go on and on, but the statement by Dr. Jacobs of course, puts a positive spin on his side and leaves Emma to the wolves. I stand by my assertion that the tapes are a more revealing about their personal and professional relationship.